Quote from: Zythyra on July 28, 2012, 11:22:08 AM
More of us seem to be considering it than before, or at least talking openly about it. I believe another important factor is that treatment standards have recently progressed to include non binary and genderqueer people, whereas previous standards were much stricter.

Z

I got the idea it was once a verboten topic, because it would have been assumed that non-binaries were doing this for "cosmetic" purposes. This supposedly was in differentiation for those transsexual people who were more serious and for real.

It is a REALLY good thing that we can talk about this one. It is a pretty big thing to not feel that we can't really talk about.

I think the treatment standards have changed for everybody. I saw "Trans the movie". I got the idea that one girl committed suicide because she felt she could never get to the in gold plated "standards of care" (not referring to the new ones-- you do need standards of care) for the time. They never said so much but the implication was there.
In our cases these old standards were impossible.


@Ativan-- yeah it's good to compare notes. It's really mostly what we can do.

--Jay Jay

Quote from: Zythyra on July 28, 2012, 11:22:08 AM
More of us seem to be considering it than before, or at least talking openly about it. I believe another important factor is that treatment standards have recently progressed to include non binary and genderqueer people, whereas previous standards were much stricter.

Z

Your words have a weight that I can't express.

Quote from: aleon515 on July 28, 2012, 11:47:52 AM
I got the idea it was once a verboten topic, because it would have been assumed that non-binaries were doing this for "cosmetic" purposes. This supposedly was in differentiation for those transsexual people who were more serious and for real.

It is a REALLY good thing that we can talk about this one. It is a pretty big thing to not feel that we can't really talk about.

--Jay Jay

As do yours, Jay Jay.

I'm definitely more than considering Top surgery. I'm not considering hormones because I'm quite happy with the way my features are right now. I feel that with enough physical training on most aspects of my body, that it'll balance out my femininity. I think I maybe a little obsessive with the top surgery, but I have a lot of body dysmorphia issues with my breasts, to say the least.
It feels like they're two giant boulders blocking the path out of a crazy, twisting maze. If that makes any sense at all.

I'm really visual as a person and see my body as a physical manifestation of my mind and spirit, so surgery is really important to me. I'm really envious and self-conscious when I see other androgynes who are confident with themselves and their bodies just as they are.   

Also, one good thing about T is the fat-distribution that helps with narrowing your hip size. That's one thing that's worrying me.

I identify as some kind of non-binary FTM. I am going to take testosterone within this year and get top surgery. Reading this thread makes me feel better about the choices I am making for myself. I recently came out to family (for the second time, the first time I wasn't really ready when they asked me about my gender issues), and I find myself having to justify how I feel by leaning towards a more binary explanation of being trans. When I come out at work, I feel like I am required to adhere to the GOLD STAR TRANSSEXUAL!! standard in my explanation of my experience, because otherwise they wouldn't take it seriously. Hearing that some of you are presenting non-binary in those spaces is good to hear.

When I feel pressured to explain why I identify as male despite not knowing since age 3 or being a macho manly man, I keep thinking it doesn't matter how those feelings came about or whether or not it's a choice. Because it's not wrong either way. It just is.

Absolutely want Facial feminization surgery no doubt in my mind about that, but im undecided if  taking male to female hormonal therapy is right for me but i feel i have to make up my mind soon becuase at 25 the clock is ticking

@rainyjun (interesting name, btw). Sounds a bit like me. (Though I am guessing I am quite a lot older... shhh.) I really like your Gold Star Transsexual. Even GSTs don't always really follow all the "rules" that they are supposed to according to some non-existent rule book on it.  Not all transsexuals know at age 3, honestly.

I am thinking re: low dose T right now (my understanding is that it gets you the same place but takes longer, depending on the dose. The taking longer sounds good to me. Right now it is just on the thinking about it stage and not more.

There's no one right way, since we are all different.

--Jay Jay

Quote from: rainyjun on July 29, 2012, 01:44:08 AM
I identify as some kind of non-binary FTM. I am going to take testosterone within this year and get top surgery. Reading this thread makes me feel better about the choices I am making for myself. I recently came out to family (for the second time, the first time I wasn't really ready when they asked me about my gender issues), and I find myself having to justify how I feel by leaning towards a more binary explanation of being trans. When I come out at work, I feel like I am required to adhere to the GOLD STAR TRANSSEXUAL!! standard in my explanation of my experience, because otherwise they wouldn't take it seriously. Hearing that some of you are presenting non-binary in those spaces is good to hear.

When I feel pressured to explain why I identify as male despite not knowing since age 3 or being a macho manly man, I keep thinking it doesn't matter how those feelings came about or whether or not it's a choice. Because it's not wrong either way. It just is.

That's kind of like how I feel right now. I'm kind of like a genderqueer/bigender FtM who didn't know since the age of three and who is an effeminate masculine man.

I am in the process of coming to terms with my nonbinary identity, and at the same time grappling with whether or not surgery and/or hormones is a good choice for me.
For the longest time, identifying as ftm, physical transition was sort of a given. Just something I would have to do to be comfortable. Now it feels more like a choice to me. A choice for whatever will make me feel right in my body.
The question is, what will make me feel right in my body? I feel like a very soft boy, gentle and not particularly masculine. I love my hair and my smooth skin. I'm not thrilled about the risks of having a ridiculously hairy chest, but I could wax. My biggest concern is that I don't want to lose my hair, and male pattern baldness is a thing in my family. For some people this wouldn't make a difference, but I care enough about my hair that it is. This doesn't mean that the decision is being taken lightly or that I might not really benefit from hormones, all it means is that what is important to my gender expression is different than what is important to ftms.
As for top surgery, I'm still working on sorting through my feelings about my chest. I'm leaning towards it right now though, once I have money.

Quote@rainyjun (interesting name, btw). Sounds a bit like me. (Though I am guessing I am quite a lot older... shhh.) I really like your Gold Star Transsexual. Even GSTs  don't always really follow all the "rules" that they are supposed to according to some non-existent rule book on it.  Not all transsexuals know at age 3, honestly.

QuoteThe question is, what will make me feel right in my body? I feel like a very soft boy, gentle and not particularly masculine. I love my hair and my smooth skin. I'm not thrilled about the risks of having a ridiculously hairy chest, but I could wax. My biggest concern is that I don't want to lose my hair, and male pattern baldness is a thing in my family. For some people this wouldn't make a difference, but I care enough about my hair that it is. This doesn't mean that the decision is being taken lightly or that I might not really benefit from hormones, all it means is that what is important to my gender expression is different than what is important to ftms.

I think these points are hard for a lot of cisgender (or even binary-identified trans) people to understand. They say we're wishy washy or not seriously suffering enough to "qualify" for physical transition because we don't adhere to a "typical" narrative.

I sometimes feel guilty for not wanting to look hypermasculine. Like I'm a cafeteria FTM, picking and choosing traits that I want like it's a game.

Quote from: rainyjun on July 30, 2012, 08:21:25 PM
I sometimes feel guilty for not wanting to look hypermasculine. Like I'm a cafeteria FTM, picking and choosing traits that I want like it's a game.

Technically, we do that anyway don't we? Choose traits we want I mean. I plan on dying my hair blue sometime. A former classmate of mine was getting breast implants. My sister had a nose ring. My neighbour wants to cut her hair.
Also, plenty of cis guys don't look hypermasculine either. Why should a trans guy have to?

QuoteTechnically, we do that anyway don't we? Choose traits we want I mean. I plan on dying my hair blue sometime. A former classmate of mine was getting breast implants. My sister had a nose ring. My neighbour wants to cut her hair.
Also, plenty of cis guys don't look hypermasculine either. Why should a trans guy have to?

Trans people are held to stricter standards of gender expression than cis people are, unfortunately. So there is more of a pressure to conform to the binary. And if you don't, people won't take your gender identity or expression seriously.

People who think hormones and surgeries are merely cosmetic often give the "what is natural is good" argument. Most people would say that a new haircut or color is normal, body piercing is fairly mainstream, but when there is surgery or hormones involved, it's suddenly shallow and unnecessary. And the definition of "natural" changes over time and across cultures. Is my brain not natural? Are my feelings and thoughts not natural either?

I know. It sucks to have such double standards.
As for the people claiming that other's choices are "shallow and unnecessary," they're hypocrites.

Every body is different. I don't know that I'm a non-binary or not. I am asexual. I'm not all hung up about it. I had GRS several years ago and I'm very happy with who I am.

I'm a Transitioning M2WtF am on Hormones and often think about the pros & cons of SRS for me - I have body issues related to medical issues as well as gender related body issues and I think that some one of the medical based body issues would become worse  if i went through with SRS,  I'm hoping something can be done to fix these issues first.

I want T, I want top surgery, I want a meta. I kinda have to get a hysto for the meta (I know you can have a meta without a colpectomy, but I have no interest in keeping that hole).

I see myself as a female-assigned non-binary who should've been a male-assigned non-binary.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on July 31, 2012, 02:59:04 AM
Every body is different. I don't know that I'm a non-binary or not. I am asexual. I'm not all hung up about it. I had GRS several years ago and I'm very happy with who I am.

I'm asexual too, Cindi J. That's a sexual orientation (I don't see too many people calling it that, but sexual orientation is who you are attracted to-- and yes, it gets about zero amts of attention). Gender is whether you feel yourself to be male, female or not definable that way. I don't know if I am non-binary either, but I am pretty sure I am asexual.


--Jay Jay

Quote from: Cindi Jones on July 31, 2012, 02:59:04 AM
Every body is different. I don't know that I'm a non-binary or not. I am asexual. I'm not all hung up about it. I had GRS several years ago and I'm very happy with who I am.

Asexuality is a sexual orientation and is unrelated to gender identity. It has nothing to do with being non-binary.

When I read about the psychological and physical effects of hormones, it seems like low dose HRT is something I should have started a long time ago.  And that freaks me out a little.  I only learned about non-binary genders this year, and I'm still getting used to knowing that that's what I am.  Also, I'm pretty conservative about putting new things in my body, so I'm going to see how far I can get without HRT first.  I am considering it, though.

I'm not sure what to think about the poll results so far.  Most people are at least considering physical therapies, which means I'm not alone, which is nice.  But I was sort of hoping that needing to be treated medically was a rare thing for us.  I mean, obviously I don't have to take HRT if I really don't want it, and maybe I'll be one of the ones who doesn't need it.  But if that's what it takes to deal with the dysphoria and finally give me a chance to be ok with the way I am, so be it.

Last time I got a blood test I almost fainted though, so I hope it doesn't involve too many of those 

As for surgery, the only one I could possibly need is FFS, and I don't think that'd be worth it.  I'm not considering it.

Especially with estrogen, low dose HRT is becoming more of an option for people. Unfortunately, testosterone works fairly fast in comparison from what I've heard. What I'd like to know from someone who is on a low dose of t is whether they end up looking androgynous or just take longer to change to masculine looking?