I thought I would share this and give something back.  Sending a 1.5" needle home into your thigh is at best a daunting task.  I do it twice a week.

1.  It is impossible to measure the small amounts of hormone I need with the standard syringe.  At best t is a guessing game.  Opt for the 1ml insulin syringe.   

2.  Keeping your heel on the floor, rotate your foot up and try to point your toes to your knee.  This causes your thigh muscle to relax without choice. 

3.  Do it after a hot bath/shower.  It won't sting as much.

4.  Looking at the tip of the needle there is a bevel to it.  ALWAYS have the angle with the hole pointed back to you.  It takes nearly all the hurt out of needle entry no matter how slow you go.  Don't ask, I have no idea,  nurse/friend taught me this.  I thought she was crazy but it works.

5.  The drugstores around me won't take my sharps container but the fire station EMS guys in my town will for no charge


Please do not refer to dosages.

I use a 1in needle ... so not sure if I could use 1 1/2 ...

My drug store always asks me if I need a sharps container ... and they take it back from me when its full

Quote from: fairview on August 16, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
4.  Looking at the tip of the needle there is a bevel to it.  ALWAYS have the angle with the hole pointed back to you.  It takes nearly all the hurt out of needle entry no matter how slow you go.  Don't ask, I have no idea,  nurse/friend taught me this.  I thought she was crazy but it works.

Can you explain this differently? I didn't quite understand what you meant.

I inject in my butt, and that seems much less uncomfortable than in the thigh, based on what some guys have told me. I mean, guys who have tried both ways.

Why do you inject twice weekly? Everyone I know does it weekly or even less frequently.

Quote from: fairview on August 16, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
I thought I would share this and give something back.  Sending a 1.5" needle home into your thigh is at best a daunting task.  I do it twice a week.

1.  It is impossible to measure the small amounts of hormone I need with the standard syringe.  At best t is a guessing game.  Opt for the 1ml insulin syringe.   

Insulin is injected subcutaneously. Most hormone treatments I know of are injected intramuscularly, are you sure about this advice? Yes you can inject IM with a 27-30g insulin needle, but it seems like poor advice given the needle often won't be long enough to hit the muscle resulting in changes in how the medications absorbed (though likely not significantly). I suspect better advice might be to use 1-3 ml syringes with seperate luer lock or luer slip needles more designed for IM, like 23-25g.

Quote from: Arch on August 16, 2012, 05:49:01 PM
Can you explain this differently? I didn't quite understand what you meant.

I inject in my butt, and that seems much less uncomfortable than in the thigh, based on what some guys have told me. I mean, guys who have tried both ways.

Why do you inject twice weekly? Everyone I know does it weekly or even less frequently.

I suspect the original poster is refering to the general practice that the side of the bevel where the very end of the needle tip ends facing towards the skin, so that the needle can be seen with the opening of the needle facing away from the skin. It's less painful to insert the needle with the sharpest pointiest part first, and letting sharp sides of the bevel cut away the skin most effectively.

This is a bit hard to describe, but I'm not sure why it should matter, IM and SC injections are usually done at a 90 degree angle, so the bevel makes no difference. This practice only makes sense at non-vertical angles. Such as an IV injection, or using a long needle to do an IM injection on someone without much subcutanious fat (so the needle doesn't need to go in as far). But with a standard 25G or 23G needle for IM I don't see why this would be a problem.

I hope the original poster comes on soon to clarify their post.

First, how the heck do you do PMs on this forum?  I tried to reply to your and it always comes up error or something.  I wanted to apologize for my poor judgement on this post.  I know the rules and I understand why the rules are in place about discussing med dosages.  If the rules weren't in place the forum would become nothing more than a battlefield discussion of the best dosage.  I was trying to highlight the difference in accuracy between the standard syringe and the insulin syringe which measures a maximum of 1ml.  At best the standard syringe gives reasonable accuracy in .5ml increments (IMO) Anything less than and it's pretty much the luck of the draw weather you are under or overshooting the retirement.  The  major graduations of an insulin syringe is .1ml.  Much easier  and accurate to get dosages down to the 0.1X .  Just my opinion from a been there done that thing

Quote from: Arch on August 16, 2012, 05:49:01 PM
Can you explain this differently? I didn't quite understand what you meant.

I inject in my butt, and that seems much less uncomfortable than in the thigh, based on what some guys have told me. I mean, guys who have tried both ways.

I would love to know how you do that and NO I DON'T WANT AN EXPLANATION OF THE TECHNIQUE.  TMI FOR ME.  I will just remain in awe.

Why do you inject twice weekly? Everyone I know does it weekly or even less frequently.

Even though it is a depot oil solution, by splitting the weekly dose in 2 with the second at mid week, I am able to achieve a better steady state, no roller coaster effect.  My Doc explained it this way when it comes to hormones.  Imagine a simple XY graph.  Pick a any value on the Y axis and draw a line horizontal with the X axis (Y=any number, X=0).  This line represents the minimum concentration of any drug in a body to be effective.  Any concentration below the line is as effective as having '0' levels to begin with.  Anything above the line is excess and not required to be effective.   This is what causes adverse sides.  My first of the week shot which is more than half of my total weekly needs put me above the minimum line but not as high as if I took it all at one time.  My mid week shot which is less than the first bumps my now falling levels back above the minimum line until the first of the next week roles around.  That's the long story of how to avoid the common roller coaster effect and minimizing unnecessary risks for adverse sides.

As far as the needle goes, look at the tip.  It is not square but pointed.  The hole is on the underside of the point.  This is the bevel.  When I stick my thigh, the hole side of the needle faces back to me.  A rough arc is formed when we make an injection.  When the hole of the needle is on the inside off the arc, the needle tip makes room for the needle to go in.  When the hole of the needle is on the outside of the arc, facing away, the needle tip still makes room for the needle BEHIND the tip where there is no needle and that is gong to be a painful injection'  It sounds weird but if you are having painful and non painful injection check out the bevel of the needle for eacha nd you ill probably ee a 180 degree rotation between the two.

.

Quote from: fairview on August 17, 2012, 12:50:02 AM
First, how the heck do you do PMs on this forum?
  ...
  I was trying to highlight the difference in accuracy between the standard syringe and the insulin syringe which measures a maximum of 1ml.  At best the standard syringe gives reasonable accuracy in .5ml increments (IMO) Anything less than and it's pretty much the luck of the draw weather you are under or overshooting the retirement.  The  major graduations of an insulin syringe is .1ml.  Much easier  and accurate to get dosages down to the 0.1X .  Just my opinion from a been there done that thing

you need 15 posts to be able to pm.

The accuracy or syringes depends mostly on the amount of so called dead space between the stopper (on top of the plunger) and the needle hub, most makers have designed syringes to reduce this because of safety issues with under or overdosing. 3ml syringes are marked in tenths of a ml (insulin syringes are in units for safety reasons).

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on August 17, 2012, 12:26:21 AM
Insulin is injected subcutaneously. Most hormone treatments I know of are injected intramuscularly, are you sure about this advice? Yes you can inject IM with a 27-30g insulin needle, but it seems like poor advice given the needle often won't be long enough to hit the muscle resulting in changes in how the medications absorbed (though likely not significantly). I suspect better advice might be to use 1-3 ml syringes with seperate luer lock or luer slip needles more designed for IM, like 23-25g.

I love it when a newbie is being taken to task by a veteran.  An insulin syringe with an insulin needle can only give a subcutaneous injection.  Duh.   That same syringe with an 1.5" sewer pipe of a needle attached that is sent home 1.25" of the said 1.5"length  in the upper thigh muscle will give you an IM shot every time.
[/quote]

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on August 17, 2012, 12:26:21 AM

I suspect the original poster is refering to the general practice that the side of the bevel where the very end of the needle tip ends facing towards the skin, so that the needle can be seen with the opening of the needle facing away from the skin. It's less painful to insert the needle with the sharpest pointiest part first, and letting sharp sides of the bevel cut away the skin most effectively.

This is a bit hard to describe, but I'm not sure why it should matter, IM and SC injections are usually done at a 90 degree angle, so the bevel makes no difference. This practice only makes sense at non-vertical angles. Such as an IV injection, or using a long needle to do an IM injection on someone without much subcutanious fat (so the needle doesn't need to go in as far). But with a standard 25G or 23G needle for IM I don't see why this would be a problem.

It is virtually impossible to give a true vertical shot every time.  There will always be an arc.  If it doesn't make a difference to you why even bother to make comment on it.  It might make a difference for at least one person that is having trouble with injections.  It helped me.  I thought I would share.
[/quote]

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on August 17, 2012, 12:26:21 AM

I hope the original poster comes on soon to clarify their post.

I'm sorry I have a life outside of this forum.  After being up 10 hours working in my business, I am enrolled in the Paul Mitchell cosmetology school M-F 5:30-10pm.  Yeah, it's 1:05 in the morning tomorrow already and yeah, I'm a bit sensitive and worn thin from yesterday and for that matter, the day before that, and before that and before that which I think should be Monday when this no time to wipe my +++++ schedule starts each week

Quote from: fairview on August 17, 2012, 01:10:47 AM
I love it when a newbie is being taken to task by a veteran.  An insulin syringe with an insulin needle can only give a subcutaneous injection.  Duh.   That same syringe with an 1.5" sewer pipe of a needle attached that is sent home 1.25" of the said 1.5"length  in the upper thigh muscle will give you an IM shot every time.

Insulin syringe as a term implies the standard fixed needle orange cap syringes. You were unclear.

Quote from: fairview on August 17, 2012, 01:10:47 AM
It is virtually impossible to give a true vertical shot every time.  There will always be an arc.  If it doesn't make a difference to you why even bother to make comment on it.  It might make a difference for at least one person that is having trouble with injections.  It helped me.  I thought I would share.

This does not negate anything I have said, a vertical injection both does not and can not matter in terms of bevel.

Quote from: fairview on August 17, 2012, 01:10:47 AM
I'm sorry I have a life outside of this forum.  After being up 10 hours working in my business, I am enrolled in the Paul Mitchell cosmetology school M-F 5:30-10pm.  Yeah, it's 1:05 in the morning tomorrow already and yeah, I'm a bit sensitive and worn thin from yesterday and for that matter, the day before that, and before that and before that which I think should be Monday when this no time to wipe my +++++ schedule starts each week

Wow, such unwarranted hostility, I shall be reporting your post once I have finished typing this post.

Your advice is vague and misleading. That you have the audacity to call me, someone you don't know, a newbie, is nothing short of hilarious.

I have given myself, at the very least, over 500 injections in just the past 3 years, so back off.

It will be interesting to see with this attitude if you even make it to enough posts to message people.

 
OK calm down please.

I don't think Fairview had any malicious intent. They are very new to the forum and are only just starting to ask questions.

I think we can take a deep breath and have a moment of reflection.

I think you have both misinterpreted each others comments in the 'heat' of discussion and maybe a fresh start will clear the air.

How about it?

Or do you really want me to bring in the Mod Gun?

Cindy James
Global Moderator.