Quote from: Geek on September 02, 2012, 01:36:57 PM
How about what a professional thinks?

Quote from: Bane on September 02, 2012, 12:24:07 AM
And I have been professionally diagnosed, but only with one therapist

Quote from: sonopoly on September 02, 2012, 07:20:37 AM
Sociopaths have personal and selfish goals and will do anything to fulfill them with no regard for anyone else.

I'm not a sociopath and that describes me.

Check out this book: THE PSYCHOPATH TEST by Jon Ronson
http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath-Test-Journey-Industry/dp/1594488010

Also Here's a vid:


My brother and mother were both textbook clinical psychopaths.
If anyone feels like they're a sociopath, and that's neet, they really ought to get involved with a real one.
Urban myth morphed into self diagnosis is just another bizarre side effect of people's intense desire for attention.
In current social media times, adopting a false psychological diagnostic label is an easy way out.
Often this is nothing more than a mild narcissistic trait (not even at a clinically diagnostic level) which is a very common side effect of living in an attention economy with an empty bank account.

Of course, because of that it also frequently occurs that someone who does have a genuine diagnosis given by a mental health professional is mistaken for one of the people who fake it. There are a lot of amateurs out there who think they know the diagnosis (or lack thereof) of a random stranger better than someone who is actually qualified to give a diagnosis. If that wasn't dumb enough, there are also plenty of people who think they know a stranger better than that person knows themselves.
I agree it would be nice if there weren't anyone dumb enough to think that a diagnosis is an easy way out, but sadly, there is a lot of ignorance out there.

So why are you saying things like "thanks for the reply!" and "sorry" after openly admitting to not meaning them? Someone with APD (and that is the formal diagnosis, since you claim to have been formally diagnosed) wouldn't feel genuinely grateful or apologetic if they fit the diagnostic criteria.

Quote from: Bane on September 02, 2012, 02:28:37 AM
Also, I have to say I don't understand the label of 'anti-social personality disorder', because it seems to me that sociopaths are not anti-social in nature, but are 'uncaring' and lack empathy. Most sociopaths I know have many friends and an active social life. I dunno, maybe I'm just interpreting the label wrong or something...?

The clinical term "antisocial" doesn't mean "unsociable", it means "anti-society" (disregard for social norms/rules/obligations). It has nothing to do with how outgoing you are.

Quote from: sonopoly on September 02, 2012, 07:20:37 AM
None of you are sociopaths.  Sociopaths have personal and selfish goals and will do anything to fulfill them with no regard for anyone else.

I can understand having little feeling for the tragedies of strangers.  That's pretty normal. How can you have deep feelings about people you've never met?  I kind of think it's weird when strangers are bawling when they hear of a tragedy about people they don't know.  I kind of suspect they're faking to show how compassionate they are.

Yes. I also feel unaffected or ambivalent to the suffering of others - if I hear about a 'tragedy' my first thought is "cool!" or "interesting!" as long as it doesn't affect myself or someone prominent in my life - but this doesn't make me a sociopath. It's because of my cognitive functions being Ti and Se which are more concerned with taking in and analzying information impersonally than they are with empathizing; it's my personality type.

From what OP is describing it seems like he might be conflating a more impersonal personality type with being a high-functioning sociopath, since he hasn't described any behaviour/cognition that is exclusive to sociopathy. It's possible to not give a f-ck about morality, emotions and other people yet still be a neurotypical person.

But I can't arrive at any conclusion with such a limited amount of information so I need to request more. What differentiates you from someone like me who just has an impersonal approach to life?

I don't know why anyone would want to fake this; so far people realising I am this way has just resulted in over-reactions and my being labelled a 'psycho', when I am very far from that extreme case. I don't understand, what purpose is served in claiming the illegitimate title of an emotionless 'monster'?

I don't really see how my diagnosis is on the table for discussion, when it was given to me by a professional with so many letters after her name that I couldn't even be bothered to remember them all. But you guys have at it; it's very amusing to see how many people think some quick googling makes them an expert on the matter, when even experts cannot fully agree on what a sociopath is.

Quote from: Poptart on September 02, 2012, 03:35:58 PM
So why are you saying things like "thanks for the reply!" and "sorry" after openly admitting to not meaning them? Someone with APD (and that is the formal diagnosis, since you claim to have been formally diagnosed) wouldn't feel genuinely grateful or apologetic if they fit the diagnostic criteria.

Haven't I been over this already? I respond as I've learnt to, so that empaths will continue to interact with me. Call it social manipulation or mimicry if that helps you to understand. If I don't say thank you and sorry, who will want to respond and have a conversation with me?

On furtherance of this, has anyone considered that I'm picking more neurotypical examples to explain myself because I do not wish to be labelled a monster on this forum? I get help and support from this site, and while I would like to have an honest discussion about this within the community, I have no desire to segregate myself, or to destroy any connections that I may have made. APD =/= socially inept.

I was hoping people would take me at face value, and discuss the actual topic, rather than what I may or may not be, but it's no wonder I have never seen a topic like this before; with all of the fluff and impotent, misdirected anger any real answers are bound to get left in the dust.

This topic has obviously helped some though, as I have received private messages to that effect, so I will stop cluttering it with my replies now. Let's leave what I may or may not be alone, and if it helps you all to feel better, carry on the discussion with the assumption that I am not a sociopath.

I don't think you're intentionally faking it. I think you could be accidentally mistaking yourself for one since you haven't described cognition/behaviour that is outside the realm of neurotypical people. That is why I asked what differentiates you from us, if anything. Can you answer without using an appeal to authority ('my therapist said so')? And don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to start sh-t with you, I'm just a naturally skeptical person and I need more information before believing what I read on the Internet.

Quote from: Bane on September 02, 2012, 03:47:19 PM
Haven't I been over this already? I respond as I've learnt to, so that empaths will continue to interact with me. Call it social manipulation or mimicry if that helps you to understand. If I don't say thank you and sorry, who will want to respond and have a conversation with me?

But it's pointless in a conversation that's very premise is the fact you don't mean these things. It's only useful when you're actually trying to deceive someone into thinking you're sorry/thankful, but when you begin a post with "I'm a sociopath" you've given up that possibility.

I said I would stop replying, but you seem to want a decisive answer, so I'll try to be quick.

I have taken this list from 'Profile of a Sociopath', to provide a 'checklist' of qualities that are widely agreed upon to be sociopathic.

Glibness and Superficial Charm - Yes
Manipulative and Conning - Yes
Grandiose Sense of Self - To some extent, but I think that there can be a lot of crossover between sociopath and narcissist, and I am not the latter.
Pathological Lying - Very yes
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt - Mostly yes. I do not feel shame or guilt, but I can feel remorse. Whether this is true remorse, or just anger at myself for failing I do not know.
Shallow Emotions - Yes
Incapacity for Love - To some extent. I have a strong selfish 'love' for a few people and things.
Need for Stimulation - Yes
Callousness/Lack of Empathy - Very yes.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature - Yes.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency - Yes.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability - Very yes.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity - Yes.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle - Yes, though I believe my life plans are realistic, but far-fetched. But then, I suppose I would...
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility - Yes. It is very easy for me to change the way I act and appear to further my desires, but I am not a criminal.

And about the 'sorry' and 'thank you's, social mimicry for me is a learned, instinctive response; I just do it. Sure, I could stop it all and come across as completely emotionless and cold, but why would I? Especially when that would take consciouse effort I frankly couldn't be bothered with?

Anyone interested in this should take a look at www.sociopathworld.com It is written by a high-functioning sociopath, and he explains things about us a lot more clearly than a quick googles search will. Googling 'sociopath' will readily bring up a bunch of definitions that pick out who ABSOLUTELY IS A SOCIOPATH!, with a whole bunch of qualities that any one sociopath may or may not have. You don't have to exhibit 100% of the symptoms to have a condition, and people would be well advised to remember that.

http://www.sociopathworld.com/2009/01/do-sociopaths-love.html - On sociopaths and a commonly mentioned 'inability to love' that is misleading and often untrue.

Bane,

Psychology is a fuzzy science.  Experts battle against each other.  I cannot diagnose you, but if you are a sociopath, you have my most sincere condolences, beacause I can only imagine few worse hands to be drawn - a miilion times worse than being transgendered.  Again, my condolences to you. I wish you the best.

Thank you sonopoly, though your condolences are not needed. As I stated in my original post, I think perhaps this has been a good thing in certain ways. I also don't feel at a loss for having less emotional depth than others, but perhaps I am missing out on some richer world; never having experienced it I do not know.

Alright, that list makes it more plausible if accurate. Thank you for clarifying.

BTW why are you assuming we're doing 'quick Google searches'? I've done extensive research on APD over the past few years, not limited to Google. Abnormal psychology is fascinating.

I was more mentioning the google searches for those who want to become informed on the matter, or who might have looked into it briefly via Google and gotten the wrong idea. I did not mean to imply that I had made a blanket assumption that all comments were founded on quick Google research.

Quote from: Bane on September 02, 2012, 05:24:51 PM
I was more mentioning the google searches for those who want to become informed on the matter, or who might have looked into it briefly via Google and gotten the wrong idea. I did not mean to imply that I had made a blanket assumption that all comments were founded on quick Google research.

Bane, if you don't mind I have a hypothetical question for you.  If you saw an elderly person fall down and you were the only person around, would you go and help them with the expectation/hope of some type of reward, with no expectation or continue on your way not caring whether or not they were able to stand back up?

Quote from: Ep on September 02, 2012, 05:38:11 PM
Bane, if you don't mind I have a hypothetical question for you.  If you saw an elderly person fall down and you were the only person around, would you go and help them with the expectation/hope of some type of reward, with no expectation or continue on your way not caring whether or not they were able to stand back up?

Hmmm, I would probably help with some kind of expectation of reward, or with no expectation. However I would not help because I cared or because I was worried, but because I knew it was something I should care about, and must endeavor to portray.

When I was younger I once walked past an elderly woman with a walker, who had fallen down a couple of stairs while there were other people around. That memory has stuck with me for a very long time, and I did not understand at the time why I cared so little. I was with a friend at the time, and the look of horror on her face stuck with me. It's interractions like that which led me to develop a stronger sense of social awareness, and to change my responses to conform more closely with what is expected of neurotypical people.

Quote from: Bane on September 02, 2012, 05:51:14 PM
Hmmm, I would probably help with some kind of expectation of reward, or with no expectation. However I would not help because I cared or because I was worried, but because I knew it was something I should care about, and must endeavor to portray.

I can't see a sociopath as having enough of a moral code to go ahead and help someone other than for a large personal gain.
I would see another professional and see if they diagnose you the same way before you go about being "proud" of essentially having what is a both "antisocial, unfeeling, and manipulative" personality.

i read a book about sociopaths and psychopaths once. they had a list of all the criteria to be one. and then afterwards it said something like, if you're reading the list and worried you are a psychopath then you most likely arent one because a psychopath wouldnt worry about such things.\
also i use psychopath and sociopath interchangably because i read in a book that the difference is just between the fields of psychology and sociology i think

Where did I say I was proud of being one? I do not feel pride about this. I don't really feel any particular way about it.

And perhaps I will get another opinion on it. To be honest I don't really care enough to be bothered.

I thought the same thing Jason did.  Even if you don't feel proud about this "disorder" or "affliction" it seems as if you are.  I guess you'd get more sympathy if you said, "OMG, my doctor just diagnosed me as a sociopath, is there anything I can do? Help!!!"

Sorry, something about your posts here just don't ring true to me.  If you wanted to shock people and get attention - well you achieved one of these goals.

Maybe you have Aspberger's or mild autism.  Both those have characteristics which include a lack of depth of feeling and empathy.  As many here have found, many psychology professionals have been found to be quite incompetent.

Quote from: sonopoly on September 02, 2012, 11:07:30 PM
I thought the same thing Jason did.  Even if you don't feel proud about this "disorder" or "affliction" it seems as if you are.  I guess you'd get more sympathy if you said, "OMG, my doctor just diagnosed me as a sociopath, is there anything I can do? Help!!!"

Sorry, something about your posts here just don't ring true to me.  If you wanted to shock people and get attention - well you achieved one of these goals.

Well it fits. I don't think a sociopath would say "OMG I'm a sociopath". It figures re: getting attention and shocking people. I'm not too shocked, more surprised that someone would admit to it than anything.

--Jay Jay