Jaw reduction

[rhondabythebay]

I was wondering if anyone here has undergone this procedure? I'm looking to the future and researching surgeons, procedures, and costs. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Hugs,

Rhonda

[melissa90299]

I was wondering if anyone here has undergone this procedure? I'm looking to the future and researching surgeons, procedures, and costs. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Hugs,

Rhonda

Dr Ousterhout pioneered this  procedure, it's called a sliding genioplasty, a lot of surgeons perform it now, costs vary from 3-11000 US $$$

My current avatar is pre-sliding genioplasty, the skin around the jaw is finally settling in nicely, this takes longer at my advanced age, I know people think I looked very feminine even with the wide jaw but I noticed that my gender was virtually unquestioned after the jaw surgery.

[Melissa]

I know people think I looked very feminine even with the wide jaw but I noticed that my gender was virtually unquestioned after the jaw surgery.

Well, you do.  Do you think that you may have percieved people as questioning your gender because of your own discomfort with your jaw?  Then after surgery you may have become more relaxed with yourself and *that* is what made you more passable.

[tinkerbell]

Wow, really?  I would have thought the costs were more than $11,000 considering  the reputation that Dr. O has in the TG community.  So he is not as expensive as some people think, huh?  and he is only 20 minutes away from me...yay!  interesting!  thanks for the tip Melissa90299!

tink

[melissa90299]

I know people think I looked very feminine even with the wide jaw but I noticed that my gender was virtually unquestioned after the jaw surgery.

Well, you do.  Do you think that you may have percieved people as questioning your gender because of your own discomfort with your jaw?  Then after surgery you may have become more relaxed with yourself and *that* is what made you more passable.

Oh no, definitely not, there was a dramatic yet subtle change, people who hadn't seen me in awhile couldn't figure out what I had done. My hair stylist freaked the other day when he saw me. Funny thing is that my jaw doesn't look that wide in the pics I post here, (which are pre-jaw work)but they are slightly "thinnified." And camera angle is everything.

The only thing that I am disappointed with is that my lip aug didn't completely hold but Dr O warned me that it might not and the loose skin makes me look older (actually more like my real age) but I also expected that.

Anyone want to test her passabilty quotient go hang out where there are African-American kids and gauge how they react.

I have posted before that a soft jawline is second only to lips as marker of femininity. It seems crazy but that's the way it is.



After I come back form Thailand, I plan to do a documentary on transmen and women in the Bay Area and part of the documentary will be an interview with Dr O. (If he will grant it, I haven't asked yet)

[rhondabythebay]

Dr Ousterhout pioneered this  procedure, it's called a sliding genioplasty, a lot of surgeons perform it now, costs vary from 3-11000 US $$$

Sliding genioplasty is specifically chin work, tho it is often combined with a jaw angle reduction and masseter muscle trim to give a more complete fem lower face. I see a lot more surgeons doing the chin work than the jaw bone shave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genioplasty

I also found a place in Buenos Aires, called Genderways that offers forehead, chin, jaw, and rhinoplasty, plus hotel for about 15k. Check out the web site. I'm still trying to get independent accounts of the work done.

http://www.genderways.com/en/N2/facial_feminization.htm


Melissa90299, which procedures did you have done on your face? I'm a little unclear on what exactly you had done.

Thanks,

Rhonda

[melissa90299]

I had scalp reduction, Type II forehead contouring, brow lift, lip lift, lip aug )as pictured...then I went back, lip lifted again, (free) and mandible surgery and sliding genioplasty.

[rhondabythebay]

I had scalp reduction, Type II forehead contouring, brow lift, lip lift, lip aug )as pictured...then I went back, lip lifted again, (free) and mandible surgery and sliding genioplasty.

The works, from Dr. O? That must have set you back a few bills.

[Melissa]

Oh no, definitely not, there was a dramatic yet subtle change, people who hadn't seen me in awhile couldn't figure out what I had done. My hair stylist freaked the other day when he saw me. Funny thing is that my jaw doesn't look that wide in the pics I post here, (which are pre-jaw work)but they are slightly "thinnified." And camera angle is everything.

The only thing that I am disappointed with is that my lip aug didn't completely hold but Dr O warned me that it might not and the loose skin makes me look older (actually more like my real age) but I also expected that.

Ah, ok.

Anyone want to test her passabilty quotient go hang out where there are African-American kids and gauge how they react.

Been there, done that.  No problems.  How about passing in front of a couple hundred transgendered people?  I've done that too.

I have posted before that a soft jawline is second only to lips as marker of femininity. It seems crazy but that's the way it is.

Yeah, my lips are definitely female.  I agree that a softer jawline can make somebody look more feminine, but not necessarily more female (unless it's REALLY bad).

After I come back form Thailand, I plan to do a documentary on transmen and women in the Bay Area and part of the documentary will be an interview with Dr O. (If he will grant it, I haven't asked yet)

From what I know about him, he probably would.  It's basically free advertising for him.

Sliding genioplasty is specifically chin work, tho it is often combined with a jaw angle reduction and masseter muscle trim to give a more complete fem lower face. I see a lot more surgeons doing the chin work than the jaw bone shave.

Ironically, when I had my consult with Dr. O last week, he remarked that I had a female chin and he rarely says that (like maybe 2 in a thousand).

Melissa

[Nero]

Anyone want to test her passabilty quotient go hang out where there are African-American kids and gauge how they react.

Umm, why African-American kids? Are they supposed to be more candid or something?

[Keira]

I think O is full of crap Melissa, just in my support group there are 2 that have what could be termed female chins (small, rounded and not very high). And that doesn't include my own.

If you look at my photo, you'd see that I had a very small chin for a male. The distance between the base of my nose to the glabella is longer than the distance from the base of my nose to the end of my chin.  My chin width is less than the distance between my eyes. My jaw angles (gonial angles) are 132 degree on one side, 140 on the other. That was a very open angle for a male. I basically had a female chin and jaw except for the masseter muscle.

The only thing that botters me is the masseter muscle, its bigger than a female one, an bigger on one side. It makes my jaw larger from the front than it looks from every other angle (even almost frontal ones).

I'm probably gonna get that bottoxed down soon. Many doctors now prefer taking care of the masseter though bottox than through surgery (and supposedly it is as good long term solution).

[melissa90299]

Anyone want to test her passabilty quotient go hang out where there are African-American kids and gauge how they react.

Umm, why African-American kids? Are they supposed to be more candid or something?

I don't ever go by what people say, people lie, I can tell by the way people look at me as to how they are reading me, and African-American kids seem to have this sixth sense almost when it comes to gender.

I am OCD when it comes to the way people perceive me and it is way beyond what people say. Of course, I have the benefit of reading people's reactions before FFS and after FFS
Here comes Melissa-Nicole's brutal post-actively addicted self, BEWARE!


Quite frankly, I see more denial among transwomen and how they pass then I have ever seen in AA. I have had women tell me how great that they pass that could be clocked a mile away. And we do no one any favors by trying to convince each other how perfectly we pass. Critical, honest judgments only help us to improve.

I had scalp reduction, Type II forehead contouring, brow lift, lip lift, lip aug )as pictured...then I went back, lip lifted again, (free) and mandible surgery and sliding genioplasty.

The works, from Dr. O? That must have set you back a few bills.

Not really, it was an investment that is still paying dividends.
BTW where did I say that I had the works?

[Keira]

Melissa, you of the brutal truth (tm) ( the numbered one :-).

Some african american children did read me  a few days ago, but from 90 feet away sideways!!!!!!
I don't think anything else but my nose (already operated on) would show from that angle.

My body type is very similar to Sharapova (not the face :-) except my thighs are more muscled and I have slightly more muscles on the shoulders. She's taller though (6 foot one vs 5 foot 11 1/2). My frame is small, I wear a 10 coat, 8 dress and pants.

At first, I guesed that it was my muscled shoulder and my height that got them pointing (it was a group of girls on the corner just out of school at the of the day). But, I think the most plausible thing is that someone noticed me during the transition and prior to rhino+brow bossing (type I) and recognized me when I passed by. That's actually more plausible than a straight read.

Inside a block away from my home there are 3 schools and 1200 grade school children, at least a third black, and this was the first time this happened!!

Anyway I see it, It really pissed me off!!!!
Even after FFS and being so thin that I'm 10 pounds away from being a size 6 model like waif, even a hint out of the gender norm can get me clocked!!!

In general, the african american community is not very tolerant of gays and anybody out of norms; that's my own experience from living in this very ethnic neighborhood all my life (25% black, 20% latino, 15% asians) and seeing how certain gays I knew where treated.

Maybe its just time I moved out of this neighborhood, although I've been comfortable here almost forever.

[melissa90299]

I am 6' 3" in my CFM boots which I wear all the time and I don't get clocked at all anymore (visually) but as Melissa1 eluded to, some of that is confidence and demeanor but if my face still looked male; all that confidence would mean squat, diminutive girls can get by with male features, I can't.

In San Francisco, if you over 5'9" you pretty much have to prove you are not TG, that sucks, I know, sometimes I feel like moving to the Deep South where I passed before FFS, you just don't get the scrutiny and there are lot of big women.

I have never figured out what the deal is with African-American kids, I used to dread walking past a group of black teenagers, now they just ignore me like they do all the other older women.

[Melissa]

I am 6' 3" in my CFM boots which I wear all the time and I don't get clocked at all anymore (visually) but as Melissa1 eluded to, some of that is confidence and demeanor but if my face still looked male; all that confidence would mean squat, diminutive girls can get by with male features, I can't.

In San Francisco, if you over 5'9" you pretty much have to prove you are not TG, that sucks, I know, sometimes I feel like moving to the Deep South where I passed before FFS, you just don't get the scrutiny and there are lot of big women.

So would 5'9" and under be considered diminuitive? 

I'm currently 5'9", my face looks fairly female, my voice sounds quite female, I have no obvious markers and my mannerisms tend to be quite feminine (or so I am told).  Nobody seems to question my gender, yet I've had no surgeries with regards to my transition, nor I was one of those people who started hormones in their teens.  I'm quite proud of what I've accomplished without the use of surgeries or the benefit of starting very young and I do not appreciate people insinuating complete body surgery is necessary to pass just because they needed it and are still trying to push their insecurites on others.

If somebody passes, then wonderful.  If they don't and need surgeries and it's within their means to acquire it, then they should do so.  Be happy with yourself.  If others are happy with themselves, then there is no reason to try and bring them down by attempting to pick them apart.  The goal of transition is to be yourself, not to be the beauty queen of america or anything like that.  If somebody doesn't pass and they think they do and are happy thinking so, then it would be better to let them continue to live their life happily.

[melissa90299]

I am 6' 3" in my CFM boots which I wear all the time and I don't get clocked at all anymore (visually) but as Melissa1 eluded to, some of that is confidence and demeanor but if my face still looked male; all that confidence would mean squat, diminutive girls can get by with male features, I can't.

In San Francisco, if you over 5'9" you pretty much have to prove you are not TG, that sucks, I know, sometimes I feel like moving to the Deep South where I passed before FFS, you just don't get the scrutiny and there are lot of big women.

So would 5'9" and under be considered diminuitive? 

I'm currently 5'9", my face looks fairly female, my voice sounds quite female, I have no obvious markers and my mannerisms tend to be quite feminine (or so I am told).  Nobody seems to question my gender, yet I've had no surgeries with regards to my transition, nor I was one of those people who started hormones in their teens. 

As well you should be but what works for you, works for you, what works for Tink or Kiera, works for them. But again I will repeat my mantra and that "passing" in the city is a whole other ball game, not to say anyone here wouldn't, it's just, well, it's like a guy playing in AAA ball coming up to the bigs, he may make it or he may not.

ha ha ha ha ha I feel like that song

do do do do do do do do

If you can make it here you can make it anywhere

[rhondabythebay]

I had scalp reduction, Type II forehead contouring, brow lift, lip lift, lip aug )as pictured...then I went back, lip lifted again, (free) and mandible surgery and sliding genioplasty.

BTW where did I say that I had the works?

You didn't, there just isn't much you left out.

Rhonda

[melissa90299]

Just another 12-15,000 worth of work. But what's 15k when you own  a mansion in Brentwood, drive a Bentley, get a boob job every Christmas and know what it means to be a thoroughly modern woman?
Maybe I will go back and get a rhino and the rest of the stuff.

[Melissa]

I will repeat my mantra and that "passing" in the city is a whole other ball game, not to say anyone here wouldn't, it's just, well, it's like a guy playing in AAA ball coming up to the bigs, he may make it or he may not.

I would love to have this opportunity in the future sometime.  Currently I work in Portland, another extremely TS aware city, and I have absolutely no problems with passing.  When I went up to esprit last week, there were a number of people from SF that regularly work with the TG community down there and I even passed with them.

[Keira]

I lived in SFO for 4 years, telegraph hill area; that's just next to downtown, chinatown, north beach, russian hill and the whole northern tourist area. I lived there even before the current FFS "craze" 1998-2002 and I didn't spot loads of TS in those neighborhood and I'd be on the lookout for that because of my own situation.

Maybe in Castro, lower market street, tenderloin, civic center, mission, height ashbury there are a lot of TS and it can get you spotted, who knows? I don't know since I usually didn't spend too much time in those neighborhoods.

Actually, the place where I'd be most worried of being spotted as a TS is in Oakland; I lived 6 months in the Lake Merrit area (the old bourgeois neighborhood of Oakland). I am not sure where the acceptance of homophobia and mysoginy in african-american culture comes from (there was a recent discussion of this regarding the "Imus" incident); what are the historical context for its emergence?