Is Life But A Dream ?

[Kate G]

Hello Anatta,

I did a 3 hour sensory deprivation session today and my mind feels a little off in the distance right now.

But...  You appeared to be saying that what happens in the mind, happens in the mind or brain and that it amounts to movement in the brain.  It surprised me that you would place emphasis on this or suggest that it is true.  The following 3:28 minute YouTube short will help you to get an idea where I am coming from.



So if you watched the video above then you know what the Endocrinologist Deepak Chopra spoke about regarding how thinking in the human body is not limited to the brain. Thinking in the human body happens outside of the brain.

The reason I provided the video about particle/wave function and the double slit experiment in my previous post was to showcase how when a scientist observes a particle, the particle functions differently.  In the video I provided the scientists observed the particle entering the slit and when the particle was observed it changed it's behavior.  The observer principle demonstrates how the mere act of observation changes the outcome of an experiment and it has been proven in other experiments as well.

You cannot see with your eyes.  Your eyes are merely tools that the brain uses in order to process stimuli.  So if the observed particle changes it's behavior upon observation then it is what is happening in the observer's brain that affects the behavior of the particle or electron.  In other words thoughts change how an electron behaves.  Now in order for thoughts to affect how a particle outside of the brain behaves then one might come to the conclusion that thoughts extend outside of the human brain.  Thoughts would have to extend outside of the human body in order to affect the behavior of a particle that is outside of the human body.

There is rumored to be something referred to as an Aura.  I don't know much about the Aura but what is it?  I have heard that the Aura of a person changes depending upon the kinds of thoughts he or she is thinking.  Perhaps an Aura is thought energy.

Some people are rumored to be able to engage in telekinesis and if so then what is the energy that they use in order to affect an object outside of their body?

There is a consciousness that surrounds the planet earth, perhaps it fills the earth too.  Perhaps this consciousness exists in everything and can be referred to as "god".  In the past when I have successfully meditated I have tapped into this consciousness and I have come to know things I never learned.  A friend of mine told me the word for this, a word that describes a library of knowledge that exists in the ether and I regret that I cannot remember what it is called.

Some spiritual leaders have said that we are all one and that what we are is consciousness and that if I was enlightened then I could wiggle your left toe just as I could wiggle my own left toe.  In order for this stuff to happen it would seem that thoughts could not merely be electrical impulses that only happen in the cranium of the one thinking them.

I can think of other examples.  A mother who just knows that something has happened to her child.  It seems obvious to me that there is more to the human mind than 2.87 to 3.1 pounds of gray matter.


So Anatta...

Have you given any thought at all to what you would experience if instead of functioning as particles you began to function or exist as waves?  Would you experience ascension? How about your thoughts, have you given thought to whether your thoughts exist as particles or waves or both?  Perhaps you exist as particles and as waves?  Where is your mind located?  Is your mind stuck in a calcium vault that rides atop a spinal column?

I have heard it suggested that we are spiritual beings having a human experience.  A mind trapped inside of a calcium vault stuck atop a spinal column sounds very human but I suspect we are more than simply human and that rather we are spiritual beings in earth suits. Do spirits have minds?  Are spirits capable of thought?  Or are we just meat?

Have a lovely day ^_^

[Anatta]

Hello Anatta,

I did a 3 hour sensory deprivation session today and my mind feels a little off in the distance right now.

But...  You appeared to be saying that what happens in the mind, happens in the mind or brain and that it amounts to movement in the brain.  It surprised me that you would place emphasis on this or suggest that it is true.  The following 3:28 minute YouTube short will help you to get an idea where I am coming from.



So if you watched the video above then you know what the Endocrinologist Deepak Chopra spoke about regarding how thinking in the human body is not limited to the brain. Thinking in the human body happens outside of the brain.

The reason I provided the video about particle/wave function and the double slit experiment in my previous post was to showcase how when a scientist observes a particle, the particle functions differently.  In the video I provided the scientists observed the particle entering the slit and when the particle was observed it changed it's behavior.  The observer principle demonstrates how the mere act of observation changes the outcome of an experiment and it has been proven in other experiments as well.

You cannot see with your eyes.  Your eyes are merely tools that the brain uses in order to process stimuli.  So if the observed particle changes it's behavior upon observation then it is what is happening in the observer's brain that affects the behavior of the particle or electron.  In other words thoughts change how an electron behaves.  Now in order for thoughts to affect how a particle outside of the brain behaves then one might come to the conclusion that thoughts extend outside of the human brain.  Thoughts would have to extend outside of the human body in order to affect the behavior of a particle that is outside of the human body.

There is rumored to be something referred to as an Aura.  I don't know much about the Aura but what is it?  I have heard that the Aura of a person changes depending upon the kinds of thoughts he or she is thinking.  Perhaps an Aura is thought energy.

Some people are rumored to be able to engage in telekinesis and if so then what is the energy that they use in order to affect an object outside of their body?

There is a consciousness that surrounds the planet earth, perhaps it fills the earth too.  Perhaps this consciousness exists in everything and can be referred to as "god".  In the past when I have successfully meditated I have tapped into this consciousness and I have come to know things I never learned.  A friend of mine told me the word for this, a word that describes a library of knowledge that exists in the ether and I regret that I cannot remember what it is called.

Some spiritual leaders have said that we are all one and that what we are is consciousness and that if I was enlightened then I could wiggle your left toe just as I could wiggle my own left toe.  In order for this stuff to happen it would seem that thoughts could not merely be electrical impulses that only happen in the cranium of the one thinking them.

I can think of other examples.  A mother who just knows that something has happened to her child.  It seems obvious to me that there is more to the human mind than 2.87 to 3.1 pounds of gray matter.


So Anatta...

Have you given any thought at all to what you would experience if instead of functioning as particles you began to function or exist as waves?  Would you experience ascension? How about your thoughts, have you given thought to whether your thoughts exist as particles or waves or both?  Perhaps you exist as particles and as waves?  Where is your mind located?  Is your mind stuck in a calcium vault that rides atop a spinal column?

I have heard it suggested that we are spiritual beings having a human experience.  A mind trapped inside of a calcium vault stuck atop a spinal column sounds very human but I suspect we are more than simply human and that rather we are spiritual beings in earth suits. Do spirits have minds?  Are spirits capable of thought?  Or are we just meat?

Have a lovely day ^_^

Kia Ora Kate,

I 'think' we have our wires crossed, for the most part we are in agreement regarding consciousness, however I was just pointing out a 'conventional world' scientific 'fact' about what happening in the brain when thought occurs...

The sensory depredation sounds quite interesting, however what long term benefits do you expect to gain from such an experience ?

Bodhidharma once said "The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind-The mind is the root from which all things grow-If you can understand the mind everything else is included !"

Meditation is something that is readily available on tap 24/7/365....
Nothing happens outside the mind Kate, there is no outside...We are nothing but psycho-physical phenomena-  bundles of vibration energy...It's 'all' in the mind-Mind is all there is...

Words do little to describe/explain what is known and at times can create even more confusion ... I'm under the impression you too have experienced the following when in deep meditation-free from the ego...

Awareness is fundamentally  non-conceptual - before 'thinking' splits experience into subject and object. It is 'empty' and so contains everything, including 'thought'. It is boundless. And amazingly it is intrinsically 'knowing' ! 

To 'think' is to 'thing' ....Think and thing are one of the same...Both conjured up in the mind (mind objects)...And spirits are also just part of the thought process, products of the mind...

Are they 'real' ? Then one must ask what is real ?

The mind is truly amazing....Wouldn't you agree ?

Metta Zenda

[Kate G]

Hello Anatta,

I suppose that I am having trouble with this concept that nothing happens outside of the mind.

I have witnessed people and how they are often plagued with binary thinking.  Something has to be either on or off, either black or white, either right or wrong.  People attach themselves to absolutes. In the minds of most people someone is either a spiritual person or a heathen and the twain shall never meet.

Bodhidharma once said "The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind-The mind is the root from which all things grow-If you can understand the mind everything else is included !"

I suppose we need to define the mind so we both understand what we are talking about.  Are we talking about the physical brain or are we talking about the mind.  Because you seemed to be placing emphasis on the physical brain I felt that you were saying that everything that happens happens within the confines of our craniums.

Introduction to Descartes


Descartes introduction to 'The Mind/Body Problem'


Pineal gland, pineal gland, pineal gland.  If you watched the videos then perhaps you noticed that the pineal gland was mentioned as the conduit between what is spiritual and what is physical.  Here in the United States either toxic fluorosilicic acid also known as hexafluorosilicic, hexafluosilicic, hydrofluosilicic, and silicofluoric acid or Sodium fluorosilicate is added to our drinking water along with aluminum in the form of Aluminum sulphate. 

The toxic waste (fluorides) that are being added to our water today (byproducts of the aluminum and phosphate fertilizer industry) have NEVER been evaluated as to whether they reduce tooth decay.  And even back in the old days when Sodium fluoride was being used there was never a significant enough decrease in tooth decay to warrant bathing in fluoride or consumption of fluoride and yet toxic waste continues to be dumped into our water supply.

Anyway...  Some of you may realize that Prozac is made from fluoride.  Some of you may realize that rat poison is made from fluoride. Some of you may have heard that sodium fluoride was used to make prisoners docile.  In the United States we put dangerous additives into our food that have been banned in other countries and our pineal glands no longer function because they have been calcified not to mention dementia creeping in due to the aluminum in our water/food.  In the United States we love to say things like, "I don't care what is in my food, everybody dies anyway so why should I care what is in my food." "I eat whatever I crave and I crave whatever I eat."  And we get all excited about a two party political system, the right wing and the left wing which is really just two halves of the same bird and we wonder why every year we have bigger government, less freedom and why we keep less and less of a increasingly smaller paycheck. But soon there will be thousands of drones in the sky, keeping an eye on us and soon more people will be dying from drone accidents than from terrorist acts.

But I digress.



A nation of people with non-functioning pineal glands will never be in touch with their spiritual side.  The animal part of us then takes over and along with aluminum in the water we will become more and more like farm animals and we will get fatter and dumber until it is time for us to be slaughtered though it is more likely we will just become more diseased, sterile and age faster.  And our illustrious government will crumble due to the immense health costs.  It is a war fought by smart people.  Smart people who sought to destroy what was once considered the greatest country on Earth and most of us are too dumbed down at this point to even realize how far we have fallen.  We should be the smartest generation of people in human history but our public education system pumps out human livestock.

Anyway... that is what I 'feel' is happening.

I have been trying to purify my body and decalcify my pineal gland.

The whole sensory deprivation thing is a pretty deep topic and I need to get ready for work so that I can pay taxes so that children in the United States will be able to continue to drink water full of toxic fluorides and aluminum and so that they can continue to get a public education that is really just designed to create human meat that is incapable of connection to source or any kind of revelation and is ultimately incapable of thinking past the barrel of a gun.

Have a lovely day ^_^

[Kate G]

Oh...  my friend told me the name for that ethereal library..

It is the Akashic Record.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records

[Anatta]

Hello Anatta,

I suppose that I am having trouble with this concept that nothing happens outside of the mind.

I have witnessed people and how they are often plagued with binary thinking.  Something has to be either on or off, either black or white, either right or wrong.  People attach themselves to absolutes. In the minds of most people someone is either a spiritual person or a heathen and the twain shall never meet.

I suppose we need to define the mind so we both understand what we are talking about.  Are we talking about the physical brain or are we talking about the mind.  Because you seemed to be placing emphasis on the physical brain I felt that you were saying that everything that happens happens within the confines of our craniums.


I have been trying to purify my body and decalcify my pineal gland.

The whole sensory deprivation thing is a pretty deep topic and I need to get ready for work so that I can pay taxes so that children in the United States will be able to continue to drink water full of toxic fluorides and aluminum and so that they can continue to get a public education that is really just designed to create human meat that is incapable of connection to source or any kind of revelation and is ultimately incapable of thinking past the barrel of a gun.

Have a lovely day ^_^

Kia Ora Kate,

My apologies for the confusion...The mind ( a non-physical phenomena which perceives, thinks, recognises, experiences and reacts to the environment) and brain ( organic matter=physical) are not one of the same but they do work in unison...The body and mind combine and interact in a complex way to constitute an individual. (The Japanese have a saying "Shiki shin funi shiki" The physical and spiritual aspects of our lives are completely inseparable and of equal importance-two but not two)

When I use the term 'mind' I speak of consciousness and the different levels of consciousness...And when I say that nothing exists outside the mind what I mean by this is no thing exists from its own side...For example a tree is just a concept conjured up by the mind, in ultimate reality there is no such thing as a 'tree' (See a couple of posts back : Nagarjuna  and the dismantled chariot) ...   

According to Buddhism there are two main types of mind the conceptual and the non-conceptual. The conceptual is the "normal" mind aspect we use to survive in daily life, but is ultimately mistaken about the way in which reality exists. The non-conceptual type of mind is also called the Buddha nature, fundamental pure nature of mind which realises emptiness...

"What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no colour, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects."
Lama Zopa Rinpoche


I hope I've cleared up any confusion regarding mind and matter(brain)...

I look forward to finding out about your experience in the SD tank Kate...(If you can actually put this experience into words)

Metta Zenda

[Kate G]

Thank you very much Anatta ^_^ ,

I have a sort of metaphor/description that I would like to share with you of what I feel may begin to describe us.

We are for lack of a better word/concept "star creatures".  Perhaps we exist as part of the Akashic Record but in a sense we are not here.  We exist as a sort of galactic consciousness as a "cloud" of consciousness.  Have you ever seen the movie 'Avatar' (if not you really should) essentially we are "spiritual" beings having an earth or human experience.  So if you are familiar with the Movie 'Avatar' the main character enters a pod and gains control of a physical body and then lives through that artificial or cloned body.  I believe it might possibly be similar for us.  Our real mind exists outside of our body or inside and outside or "everywhere" as part of the cloud of consciousness.  And our physical brain is thinking meat.  It is necessary for the function of our body.  Our "spirit" is really another word for the part of us that exists everywhere as part of the cloud of consciousness however it is real and it connects to the physical brain through the pineal gland.

The source of suffering is identification with the physical body or meat suit.  Enlightenment is the realization that we are not the meat suit.

As far as I know the Buddha sat under a tree somewhere and experienced awareness without attachment, without identification, without judgment, without thinking.  He attained enlightenment by realizing or making real through experience that he was consciousness.  Meditation is good for realizing that we are consciousness and one can even gain knowledge from the Akashic Records when meditating.  Also meditating helps to clear the physical mind of noise and it is generally good therapy.

When one enters a sensory deprivation tank there is no longer the challenge upon the brain of outside stimulus.  The brain is no longer busy with the tasks associated with the senses.  This creates a more peaceful mind or allows for a more peaceful mind to occur as long as the participant is capable of stilling the mind.  No doubt if a sensory deprivation tank had been available to the Buddha then he would have used it.  It is a less primitive method for meditation that allows the entire body to relax.  One does not have to be conscious of how one is holding his or her hands.  The body no longer resists gravity or works to stay upright.  These are all functions of the body that are regulated by the brain and require the brain in order to occur.

So on a purely physical plane a sensory deprivation tank allows the individual to experience a better meditation or if not "better" then certainly a different kind of meditation where the outside world begins to have far less influence.  Floating in a heavy solution of Epson Salt water that is skin temperature in complete darkness with earplugs in.  One cannot help but become less conscious of the body and when the mind no longer has to monitor the environment or process visual images then the brain becomes far more quiet than simple seated meditation would tend to allow for.

These are my thoughts and feelings.  I recommend you DO NOT listen to what I say about this or anything but rather try it for yourself and arrive at your own experiences.


Have an awesome day ^_^ .

[Kate G]

^ Modified this post to add information.

[Kate G]

Oh...

And this is going to sound more amazing than it really is so process what I am about to say as being not very amazing at all.

Much of what happens during a sensory deprivation float happens on another level, and it takes a while for a human being to absorb or process.  So the benefits may be felt as much as two weeks after the float.  My 3 hour float seemed quite unspectacular and really I haven't noticed anything, kind of like after I got into a regular practice of meditation.  I felt like in order to have a meaningful or "felt" experience from meditation that I had to avoid it for a while.  During my second float I heard music that wasn't actually playing, so that was interesting.  My first float was just getting used to floating.  Sorry, not much to report.  There are tons of Youtubes regarding people's experiences.  Eventually I want to travel to a location where it is legal and participate in an ayahuasca or DMT smoking ceremony.  Because I want to communicate with the cloud and bring that experience back to earth and process it as a human being.  Or something like that.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

One question occurred to me during my 3 hour float and that was, "What are you conscious of?"

[Anatta]

Oh...

And this is going to sound more amazing than it really is so process what I am about to say as being not very amazing at all.

Much of what happens during a sensory deprivation float happens on another level, and it takes a while for a human being to absorb or process.  So the benefits may be felt as much as two weeks after the float.  My 3 hour float seemed quite unspectacular and really I haven't noticed anything, kind of like after I got into a regular practice of meditation.  I felt like in order to have a meaningful or "felt" experience from meditation that I had to avoid it for a while.  During my second float I heard music that wasn't actually playing, so that was interesting.  My first float was just getting used to floating.  Sorry, not much to report.  There are tons of Youtubes regarding people's experiences.  Eventually I want to travel to a location where it is legal and participate in an ayahuasca or DMT smoking ceremony.  Because I want to communicate with the cloud and bring that experience back to earth and process it as a human being.  Or something like that.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

One question occurred to me during my 3 hour float and that was, "What are you conscious of?"

Kia Ora Kate,

Interesting question...

It can't be pure unpolluted consciousness itself, because there was a "you" involved ( the self who ask the question and was seeking the answer)...It's quite possible as you say that in a week or two the answer will come...

Tibetan Buddhists have this mantra "Om Mani Padme Hung" =The Jewel Is In The Lotus -this can be interpreted in different ways, however the most common is "What I seek, I already am !" (What we seek we are!)

In this short clip Alan Watts (in not so many words) talks of the possibility of such a device as a SD float tank in order to experience different levels of consciousness...



Metta Zenda

[Kate G]

...It's quite possible as you say that in a week or two the answer will come...

Hello Anatta 

It wasn't my question and I am not seeking an answer.

It was a question that was asked of me... not by me.

Someone other than me asked me the question.

Pure awareness, what is that?  Ultimately it has to be a judgment. Pure awareness of what?  Sounds rhetorical.

I will watch the youtubes after I finish work, thank you Anatta ^_^

[Anatta]

Hello Anatta 

It wasn't my question and I am not seeking an answer.

It was a question that was asked of me... not by me.

Someone other than me asked me the question.

Pure awareness, what is that?  Ultimately it has to be a judgment. Pure awareness of what?  Sounds rhetorical.

I will watch the youtubes after I finish work, thank you Anatta ^_^

Kia Ora Kate,

Awareness is fundamentally  non-conceptual - before 'thinking' splits experience into subject and object. It is 'empty' and so contains everything, including 'thought'. It is boundless. And amazingly it is intrinsically 'knowing'


What's of interests Kate is who other than the psycho-physical phenomenon we call the 'self' asked the question ? In a sense the "questioner"(who or whatever posed the question) already answered the question for "you" by posing the question..."What are you conscious of ?"

Metta Zenda

[Anatta]

Hello Anatta,

Unfortunately I am no longer able to post on this website.

I received this today...


I was not told what topic I was reposting so in order to avoid being banned from this site I am no longer posting at all.

Also the warning was not technically from anyone so I was unable to return it to ask what topic I needed to avoid.

Thank you everyone ^_^ I will only be reading the site from now on so as to avoid future trouble.  I enjoyed chatting with you Anatta ^_^ thank you.

Kia Ora Kate,

Sad to hear that you have decided to stop posting...I enjoyed the food for thought, mind broadening debates...

Perhaps you should re-think your decision...

Many of us have had 'warnings' over one thing or other...Don't let this stop your participation, just try to be more mindful of what you post...The warning just serves as a conscious reminder...

"You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time!"

This forum has a very diverse membership and understandably(due to the nature of the forum) some very fragile members...Causing offence (be it unintentional) is more often than not, part and parcel of such forums...   

However if your mind is made up, I can only wish you well...

Metta Zenda