Quote from: DCQ on January 22, 2014, 11:44:46 PM
It's still not a lake of fire and brimstone where you get stabbed with pitchforks day and night, but you're right.
That lake thing isn't really the Christian idea either, but popular ideas caused by misinterpretation of Scripture.
The Catholic idea of hell (permanent separation from God), is kind of the complete "un-being" of a person. Not in an annihilative sense, though; explaining this without writing a long essay is difficult, but in short, imagine God being the source of our nature, with "nature" understood in the Aristotelian sense; our nature is what we are meant for, what we should be, what we're oriented against. Our shortcomings and wrongdoings are
not part of our nature; when we lie, hurt and use people, we become less human. Salvation is becoming complete, to become what God intended us to be.
Hell is then not only the complete separation from God, but the complete undoing of our nature; we no longer have a hope of fulfilling that purpose we were created for. The people who suffer that fate chose it for themselves, by running away from that source of our being and nature. So the separation is not a punishment, but a choice made permanent. I believe few people make that choice, however.
QuoteThe idea also bothers me because, as you said, some people are really not able to believe, even if they might want to. I'm very, very Christian, but my partner is Pagan, and that's OK. He was raised Christian and was for most of his life, but he was so severely spiritually abused that he can't possibly have a relationship with God based on Christianity. When he was a Christian, he had a very twisted, messed-up perspective on God that was not healthy at all. His religion is a very healthy one, even though it's different from mine. 
I've never studied Catholicism, so it's interesting to know it's different from the traditional Protestant view of "whoops, Grandma died before she could be a Christian, looks like it's lava pits for her!" I've been drawn to Catholicism multiple times, but every time I research their views on trans* and gay people, it seems really harsh, and the concept of "going to hell if you die in sin" is a little off-putting to me. Is that just a misconception? Even the Catholic resources I've found all say that. 
I'd say it is a misconception (sadly shared by many Catholics), but with a trace of truth. Catholicism does believe that confession of sin is necessary for salvation, but if that confession is hindered by unavailability, accidents or, even more importantly, ignorance, it does not mean that person loses his or her salvation. Basically, if you don't know, or don't understand, that something is a sin, you're not guilty of that sin. In addition, a serious sin has to be willed; if your free will is impaired (e.g. through addiction, stress, being forced to do something etc.), there is no sin.
The view on gay people is indeed not something LGB activists will ever accept, but it's more sympathetic than what you'd think from the media. I can't even count the amount of times media reports that the Pope said something, while it turns out what they quoted was taken completely out of context. My experience is that priests are very understanding toward gays, and while they can't accept gay marriage, for example, they're often
far more understanding toward gay couples than toward heterosexuals who cohabitate. As a priest told me once, "heterosexual couples have a choice, gays don't".
The issue I have with the Church on homosexuality is more the fact that not all Catholics are like those priests I know, and the fact that I think the focus is wrong. The reason gay sex (
not the orientation - people can't choose their attractions!) is seen as immoral, isn't the sex as such, but the fact that heterosexual marriage is seen as sacred. That sacramental marriage is between man and woman is dogma, and neither can nor will change. However, the conclusion drawn from that, namely that all sex outside marriage is wrong, and that no other kind union between people can exist, is not necessarily dogma. I think the current non-dogmatic teaching might change sometime, but not this decade. Probably not this century. If I ever end up in a relationship that is not approved by the Church, however, I will still be welcomed - I know about gay couples who are active in the Church, they just have to refrain from the Sacraments. But they're in no way excluded from the community.
Regarding trans* issues, there is no Catholic teaching. There's only a temporary policy, which actually permits transition when therapeutically needed. There are restrictions on marriage, because SRS includes castration, which would also bar a cis person from Catholic marriage. However, many "conservative" (as in, afraid of everything that's not "normal") Catholics don't know this, which means it's definitely not a dance on roses. I have met a lot of misconceptions about this. But then again, the only Catholics of that type I've encountered so far are online. I'm sure some of my acquaintances will turn out to be of that kind when I come out "publicly", but my close friends accept me for what I am. And in a parish around an hour from here, there's a trans woman who is fully accepted, and everyone knows her history. So there are nuances here not easily seen from the outside.
