"Detransitioning"?

[ethereal-ineffability]

I really apologize if this seems ignorant of me, but I've never even heard of the concept of "detransitioning" before... I was under the impression that HRT and SRS were 100% irreversible, no backsies. Which, maybe they still are, and I'm just understanding this all wrong? I've been aware of most transgender issues for a while now, though mostly through the personal experiences of my friends, since, until recently, I've not had the confidence to seek help and support for myself online or elsewhere. And since none of my friends have ever talked about "detransitioning" in any context, I'm a bit confused.

As someone who experiences extended periods of time where I mostly lean towards one end of the spectrum or another (for better or worse), the idea of a kind of transition which is not as completely permanent as I had believed is a very alluring one, though seems very unlikely to me so I am skeptical. I know that I definitely plan on getting top surgery either way (since it is easier to wear breast forms in the rare instance that I might want them than it is to bind), and I have toyed around with the idea of working towards HRT before, but due to what I believed were its permanent effects I was hesitant. So... can someone possibly explain to me how "detransitioning" is even possible?

[Colleen♡Callie]

HRT isn't 100% irreversible, if it was, then transitioning itself wouldn't be possible.  HRT is using hormones to change your body to be inline with your identity.  These are the same hormones we naturally have, only flipped so to speak.  There are many things HRT can't do, like getting rid of breasts for a FtM, or facial hair for MtF.  It can't undo bone growth and structure, etc.  Changes to fat distribution is reversible with HRT alone.  Infertility will be pretty much irreversible as well.

This'll be true for Detransitioning too.  Detransitioning to a degree would be like transitioning the other way, depending on how much change has been done by the initial transitioning.  A FtM who is detransitioning will need electrolysis to get rid of the facial hair, just like a MtF does.  If they have had top surgery to remove their breasts, HRT probably won't promote new breasts to form, so they'll need surgery and implants to get breasts back.

If a MtF detransitions, they will need to get top surgery to remove breast growth just like a FtM does.  Nothing will undo the killed off follicles from electrolysis, but over time testosterone will activate new follicles to grow, so they'll be able to get some facial hair back over time.  Facial feminization surgery will be pretty much irreversible. 

SRS is irreversible, but is also something that takes a while to get to.  Transitioning is a long process that takes years, with SRS generally being the last step.  More often than not, the decision to detransition comes before that step.

[ethereal-ineffability]

So... you're saying, if I were to start HRT, then the only permanent side effects, should I choose to detransition, would be infertility and facial hair growth?

What about your voice though? I know that HRT changes your voice, or at least I know for sure that it does in the case of FtMs.... is that permanent as well (not counting voice therapy techniques to lower or heighten your pitch, of course)?

[Adam (birkin)]

With FTMs who detransition, the deeper voice and downstairs growth remain (but I think the downstairs is less likely to get fully hard). Body hair and facial hair thin out somewhat but they definitely don't go away.

What does return is the period (usually), body fat/muscles goes back to female pattern, face would change somewhat to become more feminine (but probably never what it was before). It really depends when you detransition. I've seen one woman who detransitioned and she was only 8 or 9 months in, so while she passed as male on T, she did go back to appearing female and her voice hadn't deepened too much. She just has to wear make up more often and shave her face every morning.

But I know of some who detransitioned after a year and a half or more on T, and they look and sound male. I guess they sometimes get gendered as female, but more often so, male, and they look pretty unusual for a female.

Something that I think is important for anyone to remember about HRT is that while some things are reversible there really is no guarantee of how they will work on you. Some changes that you want may never come in, and some that you don't want may come in very quickly and before you know it, reversing it is harder. And it can take a long time, as in, months or a year. And some things you want to reverse may not reverse, you know?

[ethereal-ineffability]

Wait a second... if HRT makes you infertile then why does your period ever come back?? That makes no sense whatsoever

[Adam (birkin)]

Well, this is my rudimentary understanding, but HRT can make you infertile because your hormones are no longer working in a cycle that promotes the release of the egg from your ovary for fertilization. When the T is no longer in your body for a period of time, your organs begin releasing hormones the way they used to (providing there has been no damage to them - and there can be, such as cysts), which causes the period to return and in many cases, fertility. Though there is the off chance of getting preggo on T anyway, as it has happened to some people...I guess at times, the egg is still released. Just less often.

[ethereal-ineffability]

Dang, out of all the possible side effects HRT could have I was actually more than okay with the idea of infertility being one of the only permanent ones. That is kind of disappointing

[Heather]

Before exploring detransitioning I think you should find yourself a good therapist and explore your feelings further before you make any permanent changes. Right now your asking about the chicken before the egg has even been hatched. The fact that your asking about detransitioning already means more thought should be put into maybe seeing if you can be happy in your current life. Transitioning should alway be a last resort and should never be seen as an experiment. But I hope all works out for you please don't start hrt unless your fully sure this is what you really want in your life. Some things can't be undone once they are done.

[Adam (birkin)]

True, the idea of being infertile is pretty appealing. But it's kind of a good thing, at least from a health standpoint, because if you were to stop T, your body would need the other sex hormone to be healthy.

[Nero]

The trouble with T is that its effects on the body are more severe and quicker than E. Past puberty, I think breasts are the only E thing that's not reversible (I could be wrong). It's often harder for mtfs to pass because their bodies have been tainted with T. I'd venture that it may be harder for ftms to detransition. T can't really be used as a diagnostic tool the way E can. They can try a male born person on E for 6 months without much irreversible damage. As early as a few weeks on T, you can have permanent effects. The irreversible stuff happens first - genital changes, voice, hair, etc. Of course, mileage varies.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't go back even if I wanted to. If I really wanted to, I'd require probably years of electrolysis on face and body. Not sure what else I could do to change. Always had the masculine fat patterns, so doubt that'd go away.

I guess it would depend on whether you'd be okay possibly ending up androgynous or male looking/sounding for keeps. And also on your individual results - how deep your voice goes, how hairy you end up, etc. Which are determined by genetics. I've heard people talk about trying to control it with a low dose. But I'm skeptical because I started on a low dose and had rapid changes anyway.

Sorry, know that's kinda bad news.  But what you identify as, whether you're fluid or androgyne, etc. doesn't matter as much as that you know what you're getting into. And comfortable with any outcome (cause you won't know what T will do to you personally until you find out). So, you'd have to think about whether you'd be ok if you ended up permanently looking male, permanently sirred, etc.

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

SRS is irreversible

Though the point is academic and you are right in practice, I know of one mtf who had phaloplasty following SRS to go back.  They had a functional penis which was erected by pumping.   It that this is something to aim for most likely.

[Nero]

SRS is irreversible

Though the point is academic and you are right in practice, I know of one mtf who had phaloplasty following SRS to go back.  They had a functional penis which was erected by pumping.   It that this is something to aim for most likely.

Yeah, I guess I'd sum it up as detransitioning is not impossible. But pretty difficult depending how far it went. It's hard to get your body back once you've made permanent changes. I know I'll never look or sound the same. I'd never be attractive again as a woman.

And I agree with Heather that a lot of soul searching should be done before HRT or other changes.

Before exploring detransitioning I think you should find yourself a good therapist and explore your feelings further before you make any permanent changes. Right now your asking about the chicken before the egg has even been hatched. The fact that your asking about detransitioning already means more thought should be put into maybe seeing if you can be happy in your current life. Transitioning should alway be a last resort and should never be seen as an experiment. But I hope all works out for you please don't start hrt unless your fully sure this is what you really want in your life. Some things can't be undone once they are done.

Best of luck, ethereal. We'll be here to help if we can. But a therapist is recommended. 

[ethereal-ineffability]

Before exploring detransitioning I think you should find yourself a good therapist and explore your feelings further before you make any permanent changes. Right now your asking about the chicken before the egg has even been hatched. The fact that your asking about detransitioning already means more thought should be put into maybe seeing if you can be happy in your current life. Transitioning should alway be a last resort and should never be seen as an experiment. But I hope all works out for you please don't start hrt unless your fully sure this is what you really want in your life. Some things can't be undone once they are done.

(This is towards what FA said as well)

Thanks for the concern peeps, but I promise there's no need for it right now. Gender aside, and as much as it would make me feel better about myself to be as gender ambiguous as possible (or at least more masculine than I am right now), I know for a fact that I will not actually do anything about it physically until one of two things happens first:
1) I get married and have my own kid(s) and they stop breastfeeding and I determine that I definitely do not want any more
2) I reach 30 either unmarried with no hope of marriage in the near future or do get married and change my mind with complete certainty about not wanting kids (or at least wanting to adopt them all past breastfeeding age instead)
That gives me ten years to figure this stuff out. And those ten years are gunna suck, and I am really really really not looking forward to another decade of this, but it's for the best. As I mentioned before, even without the possibility of HRT in the picture I've been planning on eventually getting top surgery forever, and even if gender wasn't a factor in that I still have a good reason: cancer runs rampant in my family and these things are basically ticking time bombs strapped to my chest that need to go ASAP. The ONLY reason they are still around is because I believe strongly in the merits of breastfeeding your kids (if you actually can) rather than using baby formula, so in other words, if I could somehow look into my future and know for a fact that I wouldn't ever raise kids at that age then I would start saving to get them off tomorrow. But I can't, so I won't. I am 100% certain about getting top surgery beyond that one bump in my plans, and didn't even consider HRT until now because I had a lot of false assumptions about it. I'm not the type of person to learn something today and then act on it tomorrow. But if I ever did do HRT, it'd be after I was sure I had no more use for my breasts and ovaries (and maybe after my (actually pretty dang cool, please don't get the wrong idea) parents are dead, hopefully many, many years from now... but that's another matter...). There are other non-gender related issues with whether or not I actually want to carry a kid at all, namely that I have extreme emetophobia and don't think I could handle morning sickness, but as long as it's something I'm even considering I'm not going to go jeopardizing that. My policy has always been that when there are downsides to any path you could take, the best path to head towards is the one you would be heading towards naturally until it becomes undeniable that the other one is better.

TL;DR: I'm not rash, don't worry about me. I'm just asking questions and playing around with possibilities right now. Before I even think about making decisions I want the full picture of the actual consequences, whether they are actually better, worse, or about the same as what I originally thought; and even if I almost never go back on my decisions, less permanent ones always make me feel better just in principle. But right now it's all hypothetical, and thinking about it makes me feel just a bit better since until recently I'd just accepted that I really had no options, there was nothing I could do and I was stuck this way. So the idea that that might not be true makes me feel better. I appreciate your answers.

EDIT: side thought, the above scenario might also change if I ended up marrying a woman capable of breastfeeding, although in that case I might feel selfish leaving her to handle all of that and going off to get surgery to feel better about myself. I guess in the end only time will tell

[JamesG]

Though the point is academic and you are right in practice, I know of one mtf who had phaloplasty following SRS to go back.  They had a functional penis which was erected by pumping.   It that this is something to aim for most likely.

But is highly risky,  they double (or more) their odds of complications (infection, scarring, mishealing, etc.).  It is pretty safe to just assume the SRS is irreversible for most people from both a medical perspective and a financial one.

[kira21 ♡♡♡]

Yep I do agree,  we  just thought it was interesting to know.

[retransition]

HRT is NOT reversible.
HRT is NOT reversible.
HRT is NOT reversible.

People think that HRT is just about seeing physical changes - but it is having massive impact on many systems within your body including the endocrine system and the central nervous system.  It even changes some of the wiring in your brain (no it doesn't "change the sex" of your brain but it does cause some neurological confusion and again some of that is permanent.)

Like anything else, the shorter the length of time you have been on HRT the more likely it is that your permanent effects will be more minimal - but taking HRT is not something to "dabble" in.

The body modifications known as "SRS" are permanent. Any "reversal" procedures will be an attempt to create an artificial facsimile of what you previously had and, as of now, it is not a very good one. Recent studies show that there may be better reconstructive options on the horizon - but it would be foolish to move forward with SRS thinking that you can just "reverse it" if it doesn't work out.

Detransitioning (or as I like to call it retransitioning) is a mental process more than a medical one.

[ethereal-ineffability]

HRT is NOT reversible.
HRT is NOT reversible.
HRT is NOT reversible.

People think that HRT is just about seeing physical changes - but it is having massive impact on many systems within your body including the endocrine system and the central nervous system.  It even changes some of the wiring in your brain (no it doesn't "change the sex" of your brain but it does cause some neurological confusion and again some of that is permanent.)

Like anything else, the shorter the length of time you have been on HRT the more likely it is that your permanent effects will be more minimal - but taking HRT is not something to "dabble" in.

The body modifications known as "SRS" are permanent. Any "reversal" procedures will be an attempt to create an artificial facsimile of what you previously had and, as of now, it is not a very good one. Recent studies show that there may be better reconstructive options on the horizon - but it would be foolish to move forward with SRS thinking that you can just "reverse it" if it doesn't work out.

Detransitioning (or as I like to call it retransitioning) is a mental process more than a medical one.

Thanks! That's what I thought. I was just confused as to what this exacty entailed

[Taka]

any kind of hormone therapy can mess up your system, or fix it. birth control taken for less than half a year has messed up my system already, there exists evidence that it can have really severe effects on a female body, and many will need hormone therapy in order to function properly as a female when they go off it. women still get it easily though. all that irreversible internal damage that can't be seen. but some people actually have problems before they start taking those hormones, and get some relief from that pill. depends on too many factors to know before one has tried it...

so even if hrt cause a whole range of irreversible changes, it is something to "dabble in" if nothing is quite right to begin with. though it's important to know of all the possible consequences, and only try if it still seems better than maintaining status quo. i'm planning to do my very best to get to try it, because i figure that if it does anything at all for my rather undefinable dysphoria, i won't ever regret becoming a bearded woman or boobie man if that's where i decide to end it. and even if i find out that it isn't right for me, at least i'll have stilled my curiosity. trying it is likely to be the choice that i'll regret the least as things are now.

i'll just have to find the man inside to convince the national health system that i truly believe i'm supposed to be male. or i won't get anything at all in this stupid country.

[ethereal-ineffability]

any kind of hormone therapy can mess up your system, or fix it. birth control taken for less than half a year has messed up my system already, there exists evidence that it can have really severe effects on a female body, and many will need hormone therapy in order to function properly as a female when they go off it. women still get it easily though. all that irreversible internal damage that can't be seen. but some people actually have problems before they start taking those hormones, and get some relief from that pill. depends on too many factors to know before one has tried it...

so even if hrt cause a whole range of irreversible changes, it is something to "dabble in" if nothing is quite right to begin with. though it's important to know of all the possible consequences, and only try if it still seems better than maintaining status quo. i'm planning to do my very best to get to try it, because i figure that if it does anything at all for my rather undefinable dysphoria, i won't ever regret becoming a bearded woman or boobie man if that's where i decide to end it. and even if i find out that it isn't right for me, at least i'll have stilled my curiosity. trying it is likely to be the choice that i'll regret the least as things are now.

i'll just have to find the man inside to convince the national health system that i truly believe i'm supposed to be male. or i won't get anything at all in this stupid country.

Thank you for this, this is actually exactly where I'm at right now... I feel your pain. Good luck with that though, seriously.

I didn't know birth control was that bad though? Does it make people less feminine? Because in that case I want it immediately (I've already been considering it for sexual and menstrual reasons)

[E-Brennan]

so even if hrt cause a whole range of irreversible changes, it is something to "dabble in" if nothing is quite right to begin with. though it's important to know of all the possible consequences, and only try if it still seems better than maintaining status quo.

Good point.  It's often easy to forget that we're here because life was an absolute unbearable mess before - something was already wrong.  If therapy doesn't work (and by that, I mean if it doesn't make you comfortable with who you are - therapy isn't a cure, but rather a process), then the next step really is HRT on a trial basis.  Obviously, visits to the surgeon are last on the list, and by that time you should be pretty certain about who you are.

The old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" doesn't really apply to us.  We're kinda "broken" in the first place, so something needs to be fixed.