Here's a way to maybe save your country

[Aeyra]

I write this in response to the 'debate' on YouTube with Bush a day or so ago and quite honestly, there wasn't much of a debate at all. None of the candidates has a clue as to what needs to be done. Here's what needs to be done if you want to have a USA 5 - 10 years down the road:

1. An immediate (as in RIGHT NOW) repatriation of all US troops from not just Iraq and Afghanistan, but from all over the world. Close all military bases outside of US jurisdiction, and reduce military spending by at least 90%

2. Reduce our nuclear arsenal to 300 - 400 nukes, and use whatever usable fissile material is left from the other warheads for electrical generation. CLean up all radioactive waste dumps that haven't been already.

3. End all forms of direct subsidation for suburban sprawl (goodbye Toll Brothers).

4. Disband the federal income tax and payroll taxes. Replace them with a $8 - 12 tax per gallon of gasoline.

5. Make Social Security voluntary. Those who no longer wish to participate may leave it completely. Do not require people to obtain SSNs for citizenship or employment. Do not allow any state governments or agencies to force their citizens to obtain or use SSNs for any reason.

6. Disband Homeland Security and all parts of it. These cause more problems than they are worth and the terrorism threat is bogus. It is nothing new, terrorism in its modern form has existed for around 50 years. Simply put, just watch your back. (Do you really want to live in fear?)

7. Disband HUD and DOT (Housing and Urban Development and Department of Transportation). These two agencies do nothing but to intrude into American's personal business and serve as agents of control similar to "Homeland Security". Do not allow Congress to pass any form of National ID for any reason.

8. If you are concerned for our borders, divert whatever is left of the military to guarding the Canadian and Mexican borders. We don't need to deport the illegals already here since they perform valuable services whether you believe it or not (they pick your lettuce unless you want to do that) and we don't have the means to deport them anyway. For those who enter the country legally, treat them the same as those already here.

9. Keep Washington DC within its borders. Martial law must be declared over and disband the CIA and most of the other intelligence agencies. They mostly serve as spy-ops and have no place in a 'free' country. 

10. Allow citizens full 2nd Amendment rights (including assault weapons and stuff like M-60s). This way if we are invaded by any country we can fight back as the supersized militaries of today won't be viable in the future. (Do I like guns? No, but I personally think gun laws are a moot point)

11. End all agricultural subsidies to bloated corporate behemoths like Monsanto and Tyson Foods. End corporate subsidies to ethanol and biofuel production (they likely won't replace petroleum anytime soon). This doesn't mean banning these companies, it just releases the strain upon our taxes and such.

12. Place the Federal Reserve and Fannie Mae and all other public/private companies under complete government ownership. No more jive-public/private ownership ventures by the federal government. If you want to return to a gold standard, fine, but make sure that all gold reserves stay under US government control.

13. Get rid of all the fluff federal programs (NASA, Performing arts, etc). Does the US government really need to pay people for fluffy art programs?

14. Yes you will have to default on the dollar. COuld it result in hyperinflation? Doubtful. Technically we had high inflation in housing and medical care for the last decade and I can't see how much more we can inflate prices without blowing up the economy. We may have to issue either a new currency (New USD?) or redelegate that back to the states. Cancel out the federal debt and state debts as they won't be repaid. You will have to cancel out parts of SS and Medicare/Medicaid since they will likely be unpaid as well.

15. Repair diplomatic relations with the EU, China, India, Russia, Canada, Mexico, and most of the other larger countries on the Earth. We haven't behaved very well in the last 30 - 50 years and we aren't as strong as we used to be. Yes, this means we have to play nice. No more preemptive strikes or PNAC mentality. Some countries may never talk to us again but I want to believe that most will listen, especially if we do the other stuff here beforehand.

16. End all subsidies for highways. This is pork spending that furthers our dependence on foreign energy and just invites more congestion in the larger cities.

17. Put the Democrat and Republican parties at all levels back to what they originally were: non-profit corporations. Place all third parties under the same status and neutralize all laws written to exclude third parties from ballots and other electoral functions. Disband the Electoral College as this only confounds the voting process in DC.

18. Also, you will need to abolish or neutralize all federal legislation passed sine December 31, 2000 irregardless of how small or insignificant said legislation and laws are. The 2000 elections are a catalyst to the political tension and civil unrest in the land, and we will need to start back at square one essentially.

19. DO not allow for the importation of food products from countries like China and those in SE Asia as they do not have the same sanitation laws that we do.

20. Give the option of either statehood or complete independence to all US territories and protectorates (PR anyone?). If any state wishes to leave the Union, please respect that state's intentions.

Could these proposals mess up our economy big time? Most certainly. However, the USA will blow up much harder and longer in the future if we don't do some of these now. YOu won't fix DC without MAJOR SACRIFICE as you Americans have been too complacent with DCs antics. It is likely that if you continue as is, you won't have another chance. As Barack Obama says, "we may not have ten years to get our act together". 

[Jessica]

I just started writing this huge document and in the end I deleted it and I'll just summarize my response.

Your idea is absolutely batpoopoo crazy and it will never work.

Jessica

[LostInTime]

NASA is fluffy?

Without the space program we would lack some everyday items that we take for granted. IE the smoke detector

Not to mention the contributions made in the aviation industry that has made it far safer and economical to fly. Last and not least, the contributions to the medical field with items like laser angioplasty.

[Cindi Jones]

Wow!  You've got some interesting proposals. You are a bit radical, but you aren't that far off the mark. Let me comment.

1. An immediate (as in RIGHT NOW) repatriation of all US troops from not just Iraq and Afghanistan, but from all over the world. Close all military bases outside of US jurisdiction, and reduce military spending by at least 90%

I'd like to see a real break down of where defense spending goes.  If we have a standing military, the troops are paid wherever they are stationed.  I believe that the majority of dollars going to the military do not go to soldiers' payroll.  I am in favor of reducing military spending but not to sacrifice the number of our troops. I believe that removing troops where they are stationed in one fell swoop could create a worldwide instability.  I am in favor of bringing them home however. We should find a way to do it in small steps.

2. Reduce our nuclear arsenal to 300 - 400 nukes, and use whatever usable fissile material is left from the other warheads for electrical generation. CLean up all radioactive waste dumps that haven't been already.

We can use all of our nuclear waste in fast neutron sodium cooled reactors.  These would burn all of the long term half life material.  I do not have a clue as to why we are not investigating and providing major funding for this clean technology.... could it be that we want the weapons grade materials that these reactors will NOT produce?

3. End all forms of direct subsidation for suburban sprawl (goodbye Toll Brothers).

I'm not sure which programs you are including in this declaration.   So I can't comment.

4. Disband the federal income tax and payroll taxes. Replace them with a $8 - 12 tax per gallon of gasoline.

I've read reports where we are already paying $10 a gallon for gasoline.  Add the government subsidies and health costs associated with toxics, and you get to ten bucks real quick.  I would favor putting the real costs for each gallon at the pump as long as the monies collected replaced the other expenditures.  I do not favor taxing any specific product to fund any programs not associated with that product.  For example, a cigarette tax to fund education on the hazards of smoking is okay.  General funding for public schools from that tax is not.

Income taxes do seem to be the most equitable of taxes.  If anything, we need to back off on recent changes in the tax code which favor those in the upper brackets.  For several years, I did fall into the highest tax bracket for the record. 

5. Make Social Security voluntary. Those who no longer wish to participate may leave it completely. Do not require people to obtain SSNs for citizenship or employment. Do not allow any state governments or agencies to force their citizens to obtain or use SSNs for any reason.

I'm in total disagreement on this one.  If anything, I believe in a national retirement program.  The current SS program does not work, is broken, and needs to be seriously revamped or replaced. We are the richest nation in the world.  Our workers have made that possible.  We can afford to do this.

6. Disband Homeland Security and all parts of it. These cause more problems than they are worth and the terrorism threat is bogus. It is nothing new, terrorism in its modern form has existed for around 50 years. Simply put, just watch your back. (Do you really want to live in fear?)

I'm not sure I agree totally with this.  However, I do believe we should back off.

7. Disband HUD and DOT (Housing and Urban Development and Department of Transportation). These two agencies do nothing but to intrude into American's personal business and serve as agents of control similar to "Homeland Security". Do not allow Congress to pass any form of National ID for any reason.

No national ID card!  I agree with that one.  The others, I'm not so sure.  Again, I'm lacking information on programs here that you protest.

8. If you are concerned for our borders, divert whatever is left of the military to guarding the Canadian and Mexican borders. We don't need to deport the illegals already here since they perform valuable services whether you believe it or not (they pick your lettuce unless you want to do that) and we don't have the means to deport them anyway. For those who enter the country legally, treat them the same as those already here.

I believe that the minimum wage should be the minimum wage paid for any job period.  That should be a living wage by the way.  Additionally, payroll taxes and other benefits should be paid for every employee.  I can guarantee you that this would resolve much of the current problems and arguments.  For you see, the reason nobody wants to do those jobs is that they don't pay anything.  If they paid a living wage for those jobs, you'd have Americans standing in line to do them.  Let these 'publicans follow their own rhetoric they spew in every other situation.  Let the market determine what the wage should be.  Legalized slavery is NOT the way to go.  I believe that you'd see the immigration problem go away.

9. Keep Washington DC within its borders. Martial law must be declared over and disband the CIA and most of the other intelligence agencies. They mostly serve as spy-ops and have no place in a 'free' country. 

I completely disagree with martial law.  NO.  I do agree that we should cease and desist all unconstitutional and illegal spying and covert data collection immediately.

10. Allow citizens full 2nd Amendment rights (including assault weapons and stuff like M-60s). This way if we are invaded by any country we can fight back as the supersized militaries of today won't be viable in the future. (Do I like guns? No, but I personally think gun laws are a moot point)

I believe that we have a right to own weapons. In fact, every citizen should have the right to purchase bazookas, land mines, RPG's, and even light armored vehicles if they want them.  Okay, that is toungue in cheek.  Reasonably a line must be drawn somewhere and I draw it at assault weapons.  We need to prevent the possibility of action against our populace but not facilitate some rogue element for greed or power. But I see no reason why we should be selling assault weapons.  I'm thinking that 'publican support for the NRA is going to come around and bite them in the rear someday.  Yes, they may see a time when the public will stand up to them.

11. End all agricultural subsidies to bloated corporate behemoths like Monsanto and Tyson Foods. End corporate subsidies to ethanol and biofuel production (they likely won't replace petroleum anytime soon). This doesn't mean banning these companies, it just releases the strain upon our taxes and such.

I too believe that this push towards biofuels is somewhat misdirected. I do, however, support subsidies for programs that need a kickstart. 

2. Place the Federal Reserve and Fannie Mae and all other public/private companies under complete government ownership. No more jive-public/private ownership ventures by the federal government. If you want to return to a gold standard, fine, but make sure that all gold reserves stay under US government control.

I'd like to see us move away from hiring public companies to do the job of the government.  If we as a society deem a social program relevant to all, then the government should handle it.  I'd like to see us fire Halliburton in Iraq for example.  What's with this private army they have any way?  I'd go after those big ones first and prevent any new ones from popping up.

13. Get rid of all the fluff federal programs (NASA, Performing arts, etc). Does the US government really need to pay people for fluffy art programs?

I completely disagree with this one.  I believe that programs for the arts, including education programs in school, are absolutely necessary.  Where would the world be without the arts.  What would music be? Why should only the rich enjoy priceless works?   Where would the museums go?  What would happen to public libraries?  The surviving art from eras gone by were almost exclusively funded by government.

I would rather be funding research at NASA than someone designing missiles at Hughes.  Our exploration of space and the moon made possible so many of our current technologies, it's just to hard to fathom.  If anything, I believe we should boost spending in technology research and space exploration. The potential benefits are astounding.  There is an element that exists on the moon (not on earth) that could make it possible to build fusion reactors for example.  Can you get your head around that one?  What would it be like to have fusion reactors providing our power needs?  While we are on this... I believe that the government should be funding drug research through the Universities.  And medicines that come from these programs should be public domain as opposed to letting the recipes go out to the private sector as they do now.

14. Yes you will have to default on the dollar. COuld it result in hyperinflation? Doubtful. Technically we had high inflation in housing and medical care for the last decade and I can't see how much more we can inflate prices without blowing up the economy. We may have to issue either a new currency (New USD?) or redelegate that back to the states. Cancel out the federal debt and state debts as they won't be repaid. You will have to cancel out parts of SS and Medicare/Medicaid since they will likely be unpaid as well.

If we blow up the US economy, we will have worldwide disorder.  It is a disaster we can not even contemplate. We must be very careful on how much stress we place on this economy.  The current rate of debt incursion is stress enough.

15. Repair diplomatic relations with the EU, China, India, Russia, Canada, Mexico, and most of the other larger countries on the Earth. We haven't behaved very well in the last 30 - 50 years and we aren't as strong as we used to be. Yes, this means we have to play nice. No more preemptive strikes or PNAC mentality. Some countries may never talk to us again but I want to believe that most will listen, especially if we do the other stuff here beforehand.

This should become top priority for our administration.  This can not wait. I am in complete agreement.

16. End all subsidies for highways. This is pork spending that furthers our dependence on foreign energy and just invites more congestion in the larger cities.

I completely disagree.  If anything, we should be building up our infrastructure in all areas.  Nothing does more to stimulate an economy.  Congestion in large cities could be handled easily with appropriate programs.

17. Put the Democrat and Republican parties at all levels back to what they originally were: non-profit corporations. Place all third parties under the same status and neutralize all laws written to exclude third parties from ballots and other electoral functions. Disband the Electoral College as this only confounds the voting process in DC.

I'm not sure exactly what you propose here.  I'm not opposed to getting rid of the Electoral College.  Remember, if you limit political contributions, you must be careful.  The sting can go both ways.

18. Also, you will need to abolish or neutralize all federal legislation passed sine December 31, 2000 irregardless of how small or insignificant said legislation and laws are. The 2000 elections are a catalyst to the political tension and civil unrest in the land, and we will need to start back at square one essentially.

One by one.  Yes, we need to step back.  But we should be smart about it.

19. DO not allow for the importation of food products from countries like China and those in SE Asia as they do not have the same sanitation laws that we do.

We need to quit buying it and that would solve the problem, no?  I don't buy it.  Do you?

20. Give the option of either statehood or complete independence to all US territories and protectorates (PR anyone?). If any state wishes to leave the Union, please respect that state's intentions.

I completely disagree.  It is the union that makes us strong and prosperous.  Can you imagine what this could to do interstate commerce?  It would kill it.

Could these proposals mess up our economy big time? Most certainly. However, the USA will blow up much harder and longer in the future if we don't do some of these now. YOu won't fix DC without MAJOR SACRIFICE as you Americans have been too complacent with DCs antics. It is likely that if you continue as is, you won't have another chance. As Barack Obama says, "we may not have ten years to get our act together". 

We need to be careful with the economy as I have mentioned.  Yes, we need radical changes.  I believe we can do so without creating mass panic, starvation, and death however   Let's just be deliberate about it.

Cindi

[ChildOfTheLight]

Aeyra -- have you ever heard of Ron Paul?  I think he's your guy for this election.  He's certainly mine.

I don't agree with everything you said.  But we certainly can't be the police of the world and be a free country at the same time.  Also, I share your thoughts on the Second Amendment.

[Aeyra]

Well, I do agree that my proposals will come across as extreme, but we are in a very different world from the 20th century, and unfortunately 20th century politics won't work in the 21st. It doesn't matter if a Democrat or a Republican or a Libertarian is elected to the Presidency, thinking in terms of how you did in the 20th century won't work. We have to be prepared to be much more self sufficient now than we were 10 years ago. Yes, this means that we will have to let go of much of our economic 'growth' that we achieved in the last decade. Yes, this means that housing could go back to what it was in price in 1999-2000 or maybe earlier. Yes, our GNP may lurch back to what it was in 1995. At the rate things are going, eventually it'll blow up sometime in the future, and no force in the world can stop it. We might as well let it blow up now and face the consequences of our stupid decisions in the past versus ignoring it and letting it blow up much worse in the future. Yes, this means that we will have to start making stuff in the USA again, and we will have to become much more energy sufficient. Will it cause a bit of turmoil? Yes, certainly.

Then again, is it viable to have the Chinese making all of our stuff while we borrow money from overseas to finance our "knowledge economy?" The knowledge economy is a scam. Does anyone here really think that we will have a large majority of the 120 million people in our workforce working in 'creativity' fields? Perhaps they mean fashion or interior design when they mean 'knowledge economy'. I think the term is used mostly to cover up the fact that the USA is in it's terminal stages as a country whether we like it or not. This is partially why I think that if any state in the USA wants to go it's seperate ways, we should let it do so. If they can sustain themselves better on their own, why not? Denying them the right of self-determination would undermine the USA's origin.

[Suzie]

You forgot mandatory naps for all citizens, preferably in the afternoon, just after lunch.

[RebeccaFog]

    I appreciate your effort, however I can not comment because I am in an anarchistic/nihilistic mode which befalls me every now and then. It causes me to become overtly negative and downright mean. I will only go easy here.

   I do believe that it is beyond time for the Union to disband.  We would do much better as smaller countries based on region or some other truly meaningful connection.  At least, in some regions, the native American population would increase in percentage enough maybe for them to have a greater say in their own destiny.

   I too wrote something long, but gave it up because there's too much too say.

   I knew the Soviet Union would fall apart when I was 16 years old before that freak Reagan became president.  I also knew then that there would be a time for the Union to dissolve once and for all. There is no honor here anymore. It is time we create the countries we all desire and everyone can just move to the place that fits them the best.

   I want to live in a country that cares about people. A country that cares about education, morality, tolerance, peace, and all the things that we no longer talk about on a daily basis because they've become to tainted and seemingly unattainable as to be just faded memories. A desire to be a human being amongst a government designed by, run by, and run for human beings.
   Anyone who says we can't have a moral government in the real world is just wrong.
   
   Oh yeah, I almost forgot - I hate capitalism.


Have a nice day, 

The Reeb
   

[Cindi Jones]

Sooner or later, we'll band together as citizens and make the change.  It has to get really bad though before that will ever happen. 

Cindi

[RebeccaFog]

Yeah, I want my country to be one among many countries that work together for a better world. I don't want to be THE superpower.  It is obscene for one country to think and act like it runs and owns the world.

[Cindi Jones]

The leading superpower will always carry a huge responsibility in the world.  It can be used for good or for power.  We want power.  And I'm not talking the energy kind of power.  I'm talking about the kind of power that people want to hold and yield.

I see us moving towards what Russia was like in 1900.  We have an czar at the helm who can not lead, a rich upper crust who take advantage of that and then the masses of impoverished people who can barely get by.

Cindi

[Aeyra]

You forgot mandatory naps for all citizens, preferably in the afternoon, just after lunch.

Given the demeanor of many people, this legislation is understandable. However, naptime has to be voluntary. (Can't imagine DHS sending someone to Guantanamo Bay for naptime violations)

Rebis - You are correct, sadly, when you say that we must dissolve the Union. I don't like the fact that we will likely split up, but it's likely inevitable. I'm not convinced that at the present rate that the both the USA and DC will solve the problems that have built up over the last century. In reality, the immigration problem, the rich vs. poor argument, the sovereignty issues with the Amerindians (I may have ancestry here, BTW), the issue of states rights, social and morality laws, and so forth, these have been weighing down on us for at least a century. We as a people have been too proud to deal with them, and now it comes back to bite us in the ass. Pride usually is the number one killer of power corrupted individuals and nations, unfortunately. Patriotism blinds us to reality, and reality cares nothing for tradition or flags or religions or diversity or whatever the political 'experts' push on the big box with the purty flashing colors in your living room (your TV).

It is bad enough; why haven't we banded together? The only way we could retain a USA is by throwing away the Blue State/Red State mentality alltogether. A Red State/Blue State spectrum doesn't work in the real world. I can guarantee that if you took the most gung ho "Left Wing" LGBT groups from NY and CA (both strong Blue States, BTW) and put them into a room to discuss politics, they likely wouldn't get along as well as people might think. Californian and New Yorker politics don't mix well even though they both vote Blue. To be fair, take members of the most anti-liberty "Right Winger" groups from your most backwards Third World countries in the Southeastern USA and mix them with your survivalist types from Idaho and Montana and they'll probably fight over who is a Commie pinko really quickly.

Even so, we still have to stop treating DC as a cash cow or a way of extorting free lunches and crap from our fellow Americans. This could be why there is so much civil unrest in here; if you take away a freedom or right from someone, you'll eventually lose one yourself. When your 'free market' shills say there's no such thing as a free lunch, this applies to politics too. It's an example of the something for nothing attitude that runs rampant.

[RebeccaFog]

HI Aeyra,

   I agree about the californians and the new yorkers having different concerns.  That's why I think region and geography would be an important concept in creating our new countries.
   Water rights would be a bigger californian issue than an east coast thing.  People who live in those regions deserve the right to decide how their resources are used.
    Some states believe in really serious public education as a means of providing all citizens an opportunity to become productive citizens.  Those states should not be held hostage by the states who want to encourage illiteracy as a method of keeping their people down.
   Come to think of it, what business is it of the uneducated demented peabrain who claims to be the president at this time how we educate our children?  It's not like he can understand what it means to an impoverished family to see their child go a little further in life than they could have.

   PS!!!

    I don't want to get off topic, but it has occurred to me that the evil psychos in washington may use the excuse that, technically, they did not win the last 2 elections, so by law since they haven't served real terms, they can either run again, or more likely, claim that they can not hand over control of the government to the next administration because that election will be under scrutiny for fraud.

[Cindi Jones]

There is a proposal floating about here in California to change the way in which we submit our electoral votes in the presidential race.  They want to make the decision for respective electoral votes in each district.  If this thing is passed, California will lose 20 to 40 percent of its electoral votes to the Republican party.  With the close elections we've been running over the past few years, that would mean that the next presidential race would go to the Republicans.

Cool huh?  Sort of reminds me of voting in North Korea.  Yes, you can vote... but there is only one selection to make.

Cindi

[lisagurl]

Sooner or later, we'll band together as citizens and make the change.  It has to get really bad though before that will ever happen. 

Cindi

It would be nice. I will be happy if we even can people to vote with a knowledgeable view of the issues.

[Skye]

Wow.  I could go ON and ON and ON so many comments made here, however I will refrain from any comments and simply give you some things to consider that you may have never realized or are unaware of.  And please do not feel as though this is a personal assault on anyone.  Much of what I am about to say comes from a very unique perspective.

Self-Substantiated Wisdom - On

- You (the average citizen) know less than 10% of the truth.  This is standard.  It's not because you cannot be trusted.  It is because if you knew the whole truth, you wouldn't know what to do with it.
This is done purposefully, from media and government.  It is not a control of information, or a fear of how you will react.   American's in general are passive. 

- Everyone is in favor of gun control; the only argument is a variation on degree.

- Invention comes from necessity.  Consider that when you consider removing large institutions like the military, or intelligence services.   I could talk for hours about what NASA has given you.  People become corrupt, not the institution or the ideal.

- We all take little things for granted.   Realize that in many places in the world, you cannot simply go down to the store and buy a toothbrush.   

- Spiderman > you!   "With great power comes great responsibility".   We, you and me, did not choose for America to be the worlds police force.  Nor did we choose for it to be the worlds economic parachute.   Our parents, grandparents and great grandparents did.  When the US became globally viable, we started our footprint on the world.   When the world turned to us, we responded.   Now because of that history, you stand in frustration because our celebrities adopt kids from other countries when there are plenty of children here.   Point - Realize that a countries social behavior is usually systemic to its economic and military position.  Ie. if your money and your "power" are global, your society will fall in line as well.  It is simply a matter of irony that the nuttiest of nutjobs fall first.

- It is great to bring our troops home.  Having been a Marine I can say that coming home after 3 years was one of the biggest and more powerful moments of my life.  However, I would not hesitate for a moment to leave again should I feel my country, its people, its principles be threatened.   That being said, no one trusts politicians.  I could tell you horror stories that would make the hardest of UFC champions stomachs curl.   Remove the love you have for any of them.   For their intentions may be good, their position demands their inevitable corruption.

- Violence is an answer.   People that tell me, violence solves nothing apparently have never tried it.  See violence is one, if not the only thing that solves some situations permanently.  I am not saying it is the best solution, but it is always a solution.   This is the birth of war.   Face it.  We are a warlike people.  We have averaged a war every 20 years since our inception.   Its just what we do.   Regardless of the numbers in our military, if you remove the military and give everyone a gun, you will still have war, it may simply be over beans instead of some other crap someone tells you its about.

- Lack of knowledge kills.  This is separate from the first issue in the sense that your ability to know all the angles is limited and yet you make a decision and believe it as fact.
STOP BEING A SHEEP! 

Take all I have said here, and rethink each position you the individual stands on.   In some cases I hope you will see that you need to know more.  In others you will only be more solidified in your position.

The whole point of my post is not to chastise or berate, but to enlighten your perspective.
Do not be spoon-fed your principles, question what is being said to you and discover the truth of what you need.

Self-Substantiated Wisdom - OFF

Thank you

[RebeccaFog]

I don't believe in nations
I don't believe in flags
I don't believe in money, nor power,
I don't believe in suits or the people in them
I certainly don't believe in war or guns or missiles of death
I don't even believe in beer bottles or smokable weeds
I don't even believe in electronic media

I just believe in people
and books
and schools
and mercy
and trust
and love

and if some terrible beast decides to bite me
I will eviscerate it with my bare teeth

[The Middle Way]

- Violence is an answer.   People that tell me, violence solves nothing apparently have never tried it.  See violence is one, if not the only thing that solves some situations permanently. 

I, not being sheep-like, must challenge you to give one real example of a thing that was solved permanently by any one action. INCLUDE ALL ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES.

[Skye]

Hmmmm try World War 2
Pretty much ended that in a hurry.

I feel however that I must point out the sentance that followed your quote.

I am not saying it is the best solution, but it is always a solution.

[The Middle Way]

Hello, the Arab states (all of them) are still pretty pissed off about the consequences of the two world wars. WWII led in a whole lotta ways to the Korean Conflict. All Solved?

TRY AGAIN, I asked you to include all consequences. You haven't answered with anything, just reasserted your position.

What ended in a hurry? Nagasaki? Hiroshima? Tell that to the radiation victims. You have got to be kidding me.

Posted on: September 10, 2007, 06:04:48 PM

People become corrupt, not the institution or the ideal

Institutions are by definition comprised of people. It follows utterly that a corrupt population of an institution will equal a corrupt institution.

I might agree that an ideal has more of an objective or absolute quality, but people can warp it in practice pretty thoroughly - cf: *Jeffersonian and/or Hamiltonian democracy*, take a look around[