Penectomy

[teeg]

I'm sorry if this seems insensitive or offends anyone, but a Penectomy to help someone's gender dysphoria is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. It's a procedure used for cancer patients, not transgendered patients. While sex organs do define sex and that may cause dysphoria for some if they don't match with their gender, they're ORGANS just like any other and they serve a purpose, and to say you want yours gone just because you don't like it is reckless and illogical behavior. How would you urinate? How would you have sex or pleasure yourself? SRS would be impossible after such a procedure. If you want to give all that up I'd say there are some underlying issues that either you or your therapist haven't addressed.

To me your posts scream confusion, delusion, and impatience. I think it's immoral that so many mental health professionals and physicians allow this 'if it feels good do it' attitude. Transition is a very tough road to travel. All of us (at least the responsible ones) had to visit with therapists, wait for HRT approval, wait for hormones to start working, save up the money for various procedures, wait for approval for those procedures, and of course wait to be the gender on the outside we've always been on the inside. If so many can do this the responsible way why can't you?

I'm always deeply disappointed and concerned about these kinds of threads...

[Emily1996]

So are you going to do the SRS if she is funding you? I mean if someone would give me the money for it I would choose SRS instead of this Penectomy, because it seems like an amputation rather than something to cure gender dysphoria... Please think about this twice, this post actually makes me sad, I wish I could give you the money for the SRS but I'm poor yee (I can't even start HRT for me so yeah)

[JessikaBlackMage]

what does your therapist say about this..? to me it just seems like you are rushing things.

[Gina Taylor]

I'm sorry if this seems insensitive or offends anyone, but a Penectomy to help someone's gender dysphoria is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. It's a procedure used for cancer patients, not transgendered patients. While sex organs do define sex and that may cause dysphoria for some if they don't match with their gender, they're ORGANS just like any other and they serve a purpose, and to say you want yours gone just because you don't like it is reckless and illogical behavior. How would you urinate? How would you have sex or pleasure yourself? SRS would be impossible after such a procedure. If you want to give all that up I'd say there are some underlying issues that either you or your therapist haven't addressed.

To me your posts scream confusion, delusion, and impatience. I think it's immoral that so many mental health professionals and physicians allow this 'if it feels good do it' attitude. Transition is a very tough road to travel. All of us (at least the responsible ones) had to visit with therapists, wait for HRT approval, wait for hormones to start working, save up the money for various procedures, wait for approval for those procedures, and of course wait to be the gender on the outside we've always been on the inside. If so many can do this the responsible way why can't you?

I'm always deeply disappointed and concerned about these kinds of threads...

Thank you Teeg for your heart felt concern. I do realize the situation here, and I'm not rushing into anything technically, but I'm just doing what is best for me in the most efficient way possible. There is a hole that is provided that extends from your bladder for urinating and there is other ways that I can seek sexual pleasure. 

So are you going to do the SRS if she is funding you? I mean if someone would give me the money for it I would choose SRS instead of this Penectomy, because it seems like an amputation rather than something to cure gender dysphoria... Please think about this twice, this post actually makes me sad, I wish I could give you the money for the SRS but I'm poor yee (I can't even start HRT for me so yeah)

It's a nice thought Emily, but no. I know it would be a really nice gesture if I were to take the entire SRS and get it all done, but unfortunately I haven't been on HRT as of yet, so that would have to wait. Now I'm not trying to sound impatient, but I just got a clean bill of health with my kidney and liver and I don't want to go messing them up with HRT.  But on the other side, I've found what I have below to be more of a nuisance than a pleasure and I'd rather see them gone.

what does your therapist say about this..? to me it just seems like you are rushing things.

To be perfectly honest, I just brought it to his attention, but I do plan on speaking with him in more detail during our next session.

[Gina Taylor]

Two days ago I got a reply from OHIP, and they told me that because I've been absent from the province for such an extended period of time I would need to re-apply for my health coverage in Ontario as though for the first time. However, I'd have to visit Service Ontario office in person and present three valid original documents confirming proof of:

1. Citizenship/immigration/eligible status
2. Ontario residency (name and address)
3. Identity (name and signature)

And then there is a three month waiting period for new and returning Ontario residents until OHIP coverage begins.

Unfortunately I wasn't planning on a trip there, so it looks like I won't be getting my OHIP re-instated. 

[michelle]

Those of us on Medicare will probably have to wait until October or November to see if our insurance will cover surgery.  Right not my Florida Welcare Insurance has written into the policy that it will not cover sexual reassignment surgery.   I have not received any addendum yet from the insurance company that changes this.    I will have to see what happens in October/November when its open season again to see what happens and how Welcare follows the new Medicare policies.

[Gina Taylor]

Those of us on Medicare will probably have to wait until October or November to see if our insurance will cover surgery.  Right not my Florida Welcare Insurance has written into the policy that it will not cover sexual reassignment surgery.   I have not received any addendum yet from the insurance company that changes this.    I will have to see what happens in October/November when its open season again to see what happens and how Welcare follows the new Medicare policies.

That sounds encouraging!

[Auroramarianna]

are you actually still considering this?

You are playing with FIRE, and you may get burnt. Just because I don't like my big hands doesn't mean I will cut them off, you have got to work with what you got. That's why there is corrective surgery, we can always use our features as foundation, but removing something altogether will do no good, because certain cells simply do not regenerate.

I really don't mean to hurt your feelings, but you seriously need to think a LOT before you decide going through this. SRS is already an invasive procedure that, while not removing anything altogether and retaining sensation, will reconstruct your genitals completely and irreversibly. So if SRS is something we all need to very think very well through before we decide what we're gonna do, penectomy will remove all chance of sensation, it can mess up your urinal system and there's no going back, just like SRS, but even more radical.

I sincerely hope you come to figure out what you want, and that it's something you won't regret.

best wishes~

[Emily1996]

You know if healings is a problem you can opt for a cosmetic srs for wgat I understand there is no dilatation and it's less invasive... I hope you still change your mind

[kelly_aus]

I appreciate the concern you have for her but HRT and therapist letters were such a nightmare when I first heard I will need them. Thank God I did not have to do that. Almost everyone tells me I HAVE to take hormones. Well guess what I had an orchie and I never took them. And I never will. I hate risky stuff like hormones being forced on me. It's terrible.
One of the doctors even told me I will not experience any feminization from the orchiectomy. The changes have been amazing and very noticeable. Especially in my ass, hips. My epilated/waxed hair has almost totally stopped growing and the ones that remain are so thin. Before the orchie it would just grow back the same. There are so many other positive emotional changes as well.

And when you get out of bed one morning and break your leg/hip/ankle, you'll wish you'd listened to the advice of those that suggested hormones.. Lack of any significant amount of sex hormone brings with it a serious risk of osteopororis.. T or E, doesn't matter..

[GendrKweer]

And when you get out of bed one morning and break your leg/hip/ankle, you'll wish you'd listened to the advice of those that suggested hormones.. Lack of any significant amount of sex hormone brings with it a serious risk of osteopororis.. T or E, doesn't matter..

Absolutely true. The amount of bone loss per year is staggering without sex hormones of one sort or another.
Also, incidentally, the desire to remove all external genitalia is called nullification. A term for people who do this is a nullo. It is considered a fetish rather than a gender dysphoric condition since by definition, the person does not want either female or male genitals. 

[Drazenko]

Absolutely true. The amount of bone loss per year is staggering without sex hormones of one sort or another.
Also, incidentally, the desire to remove all external genitalia is called nullification. A term for people who do this is a nullo. It is considered a fetish rather than a gender dysphoric condition since by definition, the person does not want either female or male genitals.

Then why did so many eunuchs before HRT was around live long and happy lives? A lot of old non trans people get osteoporosis. And you're right I don't want my penis shaped to resemble a biological woman's genitals. I just want to be castrated and look like feminine.
Even though lack of penis and testicles is total demasculinization and that is equal to a vagina for me.
I definitely don't want GRS. Only a penectomy because my orchie is already done.

[Jessica Merriman]

Then why did so many eunuchs before HRT was around live long and happy lives? A lot of old non trans people get osteoporosis. And you're right I don't want female genitals. I just want to be totally castrated and look like a a female everywhere except between the legs. I definitely don't want GRS. Only a penectomy because my orchie is already done.

Take it from a professional Paramedic on this one. No hormones in your system is leading to tragedy. You have to have one or the other in your system. Also since Nullification is a fetish no procedures are covered under any insurance companies or the Federal Government. You really need to see a COMPETENT Therapist before you go any further because your decision seems hastily thought out. An Orchie is one thing, this is a totally different thing entirely. Just quote one of these long lived eunichs where they led LONG and HAPPY lives impervious to bone loss or endocrine problems because I don't buy it at all. Medical proof I can give you right now. 


http://nof.org/articles/5
Testosterone and Estrogen Levels in Men. Testosterone protects bone. Very low levels of testosterone suggest that there is an underlying disorder that needs to be evaluated. Estrogen levels in men are also important. Low levels of these hormones can lead to bone loss. A number of factors can cause levels to be low, such as an eating disorder or drinking too much alcohol. A blood test can tell you if your hormone levels are normal.

Or this article
http://www.hormone.org/diseases-and-conditions/bone-health/osteoporosis-and-hormones

POINT PROVEN!

[AnonyMs]

I'm sorry if this seems insensitive or offends anyone, but a Penectomy to help someone's gender dysphoria is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. It's a procedure used for cancer patients, not transgendered patients. While sex organs do define sex and that may cause dysphoria for some if they don't match with their gender, they're ORGANS just like any other and they serve a purpose, and to say you want yours gone just because you don't like it is reckless and illogical behavior. How would you urinate? How would you have sex or pleasure yourself? SRS would be impossible after such a procedure. If you want to give all that up I'd say there are some underlying issues that either you or your therapist haven't addressed.

To me your posts scream confusion, delusion, and impatience. I think it's immoral that so many mental health professionals and physicians allow this 'if it feels good do it' attitude. Transition is a very tough road to travel. All of us (at least the responsible ones) had to visit with therapists, wait for HRT approval, wait for hormones to start working, save up the money for various procedures, wait for approval for those procedures, and of course wait to be the gender on the outside we've always been on the inside. If so many can do this the responsible way why can't you?

I'm always deeply disappointed and concerned about these kinds of threads...

While I can't imagine getting an Penmectomy over SRS, or understand it for that matter either, I don't agree with this post. To me it feels intolerant, much like what non-transgender person might say about a transgender person getting SRS. Kind of us vs. them, there's only one right way. Being gay was a disorder at one time, then its ok but transgender is a definitely a disorder, except now transgender is ok too, but only if you do it the right way. I'm not exactly following the traditional path either, and its not much fun (not that any of this is).

I'm all for informed consent, by which I mean being informed of the consequences and being judged sane enough to actually understand it before a doctor will help with the desired treatment. I do agree with all these posts suggesting its a bad idea, but whats wrong for some is not necessarily wrong for all, and I think that's part of being informed.

[Emily1996]

I also want to get a penectomy.
I had an orchiectomy a year ago. Now I am getting a strong desire for a penectomy. For those of you who are suspicious of this; not all of us want to get GRS. No offense to anyone but it seems like a more painful and longer option. And more expensive. I am not willing to go through with that but I am seriously considering a penectomy.
I am so glad you guys are questioning it though because it's the right thing to do when you care about a person's well being with their decision for such a major move.

I am 100% happy with my orchiectomy decision. I am so grateful that Dr. Arnkoff did not require any hormones or a therapist letter. He gave me such a huge relief. I finally have my peace. I am not desperate to have the penectomy like I was to have an orchiectomy but I do want it. Sort of like icing on the cake.

Why don't you get cosmetic srs, there is no vaginal canal so no dilation as well... There might be sensitivity and Brassard does it (I guess it costs less too and there isn't much recovery or complication), still I think it's better if you think about it... Maybe you should start hrt too with patches or injection there arent liver complications ^_^

[GendrKweer]

Why don't you get cosmetic srs, there is no vaginal canal so no dilation as well... There might be sensitivity and Brassard does it (I guess it costs less too and there isn't much recovery or complication), still I think it's better if you think about it... Maybe you should start hrt too with patches or injection there arent liver complications ^_^

That's the thing, to undergo nullification ie penectomy is to knowingly remove much if not all orgasmic capability. I understand full SRS is very invasive and expensive, but many Thai docs specialize in cosmetic "ladyboy" srs surgeries liike some others have said, which preserves sensation, makes it look like a vagina, but is entirely noninvasive as there is no vaginal canal created. Naturally, I have no issues with people doing anything they like with their bodies. Live and let live, yo!

[EchelonHunt]

I'm sorry if this seems insensitive or offends anyone, but a Penectomy to help someone's gender dysphoria is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. It's a procedure used for cancer patients, not transgendered patients

It is never, ever, ever dumb to remove genitals in order to alleviate gender dysphoria.

Not everybody desires to have their genitals reconstructed.

Not everyone desires to have binary genitals sitting between their legs.

We are all different, we all react differently to gender dysphoria and we all have different goals.

Removing breasts, female reproductive organs (including the vagina), penis and testicles are surgeries for cancer patients as well as transgendered patients.

Regarding penectomy, there are six possible reasons for removal or surgery involving the penis - removal due to cancer, inverting the penis into a vagina (SRS), deconstructing the penis to resemble the external appearance of a vagina, penis removal as a form of body modification (I guess this includes removing for fetish reasons, right?) and finally, those who identify as a third sex and desire to have testicles/penis removed.

To be honest, removing genitals for fetish reasons doesn't make a lick of sense to me but removing genitals to alleviate gender dysphoria makes sense to me as long as there is some form of HRT afterwards.

It saddens me that nullification is well known for being a fetish. I once sought gender nullification but due to circumstances surrounding it (being illegal to perform on FAAB was a big reason), I have opted for a much more safe route - FTM metoidioplasty without scrotoplasty but vagina being closed up is gonna be the closest I can get to achieving gender nullification in my mind. I wish for those who seek gender nullification (regardless of their gender identity) to alleviate dysphoria would be allowed to seek surgical options in the similar manner that transgender individuals are able to advance to HRT and surgery - via informed consent of course, as AnonyMs says.

[mac1]

I was discussing this option with my therapist today and at least I won't have to go on any length of HRT for this. One thing that we had discussed is that I could either get it done as a medical necessity or get it done through OHIP, because my present medical insurance provider will not cover the cost. 

Please tell me how you can get penectomy and castration (including scrotum removal) done as a medical necessity.

[mac1]

I'm sorry if this seems insensitive or offends anyone, but a Penectomy to help someone's gender dysphoria is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. It's a procedure used for cancer patients, not transgendered patients. While sex organs do define sex and that may cause dysphoria for some if they don't match with their gender, they're ORGANS just like any other and they serve a purpose, and to say you want yours gone just because you don't like it is reckless and illogical behavior. How would you urinate? How would you have sex or pleasure yourself? SRS would be impossible after such a procedure. If you want to give all that up I'd say there are some underlying issues that either you or your therapist haven't addressed.
...............................

I'm always deeply disappointed and concerned about these kinds of threads...

You don't know much about her circumstances or reasons. I can understand why that might be acceptable for her.

For me, total removal without SRS might be all that I could possibly expect given my circumstances. I have been married for a very long time to my cis-female wife who I love dearly and do not desire to loose. I do not have any practical use for those things and they are only a inconvenience for me. I, also, do not have any real use for a vagina at this point and my wife would not be understanding of that. However, I am certain that she could accept the total removal of those things if it was medically necessary.

Why do I not have any use or desire for those things? My wife is post menopausal and has not wanted penetrative sex for the past 6 years due to the pain caused by her vaginal dryness. I have only sat or squatted (never stood under any circumstances) to pee since 1977 and have no desire to do otherwise. I also do not really need a vagina (even though it might be nice) as I don't have any desire to have penetrative sex with men. As for urinating, you do not need a penis for that but just a proper reroute (like a female) to direct the urine when sitting. In addition, I have never been obsessed with those things and have always felt that I should have been female.

If I could get rid of those things it might be possible to get my wife to agree with me gradually dressing more feminine and presenting as such with her in public. I might even be able to the women's restroom, changing rooms, locker rooms and showers, etc. without question.

[mac1]

Why don't you get cosmetic srs, there is no vaginal canal so no dilation as well... There might be sensitivity and Brassard does it (I guess it costs less too and there isn't much recovery or complication), still I think it's better if you think about it... Maybe you should start hrt too with patches or injection there arent liver complications ^_^

I could probably be satisfied with that especially with other feminine facial and body changes. Also, the creation of labia like skin folds might add to the appearance and help with directing the urine flow.