"God's Not Dead" Movie

[Illuminess]

So, this movie is clearly another sad attempt at keeping science and spirituality divided and at each other's throats, not to mention the ridiculous relationship drama over someone believing in God. Whoever made this movie has no concept of reality.

What they should have done is find a way to combine faith and reason, because there's no valid purpose for trying to prove the existence of a god, whether it's the God of Abraham or Zeus or Allah. Whoever is obsessed with proving something that cannot be proven with empirical evidence is not interested in truth; they're only interested in facts.

On the other hand, Religion is the social clique full of people who have had the experience (or say they've had for the sense of community). Social cliques will almost always turn into mobs, and mobs are not tolerant of other mobs. They're also not tolerant of any idea, true or false, that conflicts with their belief about reality.

The reconciliation of spirituality and science is the forbidden fruit, the occulted wisdom. Keeping the two divided is key to keeping the world divided, and the soul divided. Both Christians and Atheists approach the issue with bias which doesn't allow for any other possible explanation of life, of space, of the mind, and so on. It's always one or the other. Black or White. Anything Gray is "speculation" or "conspiracy" or "evil".

We're getting smarter in science, discovering so much new stuff, and this is good....for us; for those of us who suspend disbelief in favor of possibility. These rigid mindsets, however, will never bother. Christians will say the Atheist fears the belief in God, but are Christians not afraid of finding out "God" isn't so personal after all, or that perhaps Jesus was just an anthropomorphic tale about the passage of the sun through the seasons?

Movies like this are good for only one thing: striking up discussion, and quite often not the kind of discussions they had in mind. We need a film that explores how scientific thought and spiritual experience are fully compatible, as well as HOW such compatibility is possible. I'll tell you step one: LET GO OF THE FEAR.

[Illuminess]

Well, I thought this part of the forum wasn't focused on trans issues. I have a forum specifically for one general topic and its subtopics, but also a section for everything else. That's basically what I got from this, so I figured I'd post something here. I have no interest in causing trouble. I mean, to equate intelligent debate with "causing trouble" is really a disappointing perspective to have. Just because this is a trans forum doesn't mean that's all everyone wants to talk about, I'm sure. I obsess a bit over my transition as much as anyone, but it would be nice to get some discussion going that isn't trans focused. But if nobody is allowed to then so be it. Delete the post.

[Ms Grace]

I'm going to move it to Spirituality discussion instead.

While it is nice to get discussion going, unfortunately there are a number of topics that invariably go nuclear. Believe me, this falls in that category - but we can see how it fares out of the Christianity section.

[Illuminess]

Well, I do agree that they can definitely "go nuclear", but I like to think I have a unique perspective that doesn't take sides. I'm all about bringing them together and finding common ground which is pretty much the theme of the post. I think it's also good to encourage some healthy questioning. The moment anyone gets defensive and hostile is the moment I back away from the discussion. It's amazing how maturity can fly out the window at the drop of a hat.

[Illuminess]

Anyway, my overall point in the post is to breach the topic of "religion vs. scientism" and how two very rigid perspectives are played against each other as if they're the only two perspectives in existence. It's really a giant sham. I mean, if you want to tie it into a trans issue think of how gender is pitched against gender within the LGBT community. It's sad. Instead of coming to a common ground — HUMAN RIGHTS — we isolate ourselves into cliques and then justify a lot of highly emotional rhetoric without stopping to recognize just how we're treating each other the way "normal society" treats us.

There are great people of all walks of life, of all spiritual and non-spiritual beliefs, but you find that they are individuals, not groups. The individual will show you more honesty than a horde. But these hordes are made up of individuals! So I think we know who we need to address; we know who to think about when we're about to open our mouths; but we only see the forest instead of the trees.

This movie didn't do anything to change that. I can only assume it made it worse.

[Cindy]

I will allow the discussion to continue in this section.

But people need to be respectful of everyone's rights and opinions.

Thank You

[Illuminess]

I will allow the discussion to continue in this section.

But people need to be respectful of everyone's rights and opinions.

Thank You

The fact that common courtesy needs to be legislated is why these things need to be discussed. I've been all over the map in my beliefs. I was raised Christian, and believed as so until I was 16. I was Wiccan, then attempted a Christian path again, then joined in on some New Age groups, and where I am now I see a commonality in all of them that is rarely seen, and it's really quite simple. Can you guess what it is? So why do we have to continue the tired old arguments?

Thousands of dollars were wasted on filming an unrealistic portrayal of people dealing with faith and the lack of, not coming to any intelligent conclusions, completely dismissing reason, and ending on melodramatic pretense that would make Jesus facepalm. It doesn't defend Christianity in the slightest and gives the middle finger to someone who had the nerve to think outside the box.

A Christian should be able to completely defend their faith intelligently and confidently. The movie basically just said, "We're right, and you're wrong. You'd better pray and believe, or else!" That is NOT respecting other peoples' beliefs or opinions. That's self-righteous boasting. Both Christians and Atheists should be offended by this movie. There is value in faith as well as the scientific method. They should not be at odds with each other.

But as I said, we can apply this same behavior to many other issues. If we can overcome one of them then maybe we can overcome the rest with more and more ease.

[Illuminess]

And just a quick disclaimer: Please don't misinterpret a very impassioned prose for a hostile tone. I know that gets me in trouble, but I can't help but to express my thoughts. I'm not very good at it verbally, so I've spent years and years developing my grammar and vocabulary so that I can get as much as I can into text without the aid of voice tone or body language. Plus, it makes me a darn good poet.

Anyone's views on the topic are completely welcome, so please don't be worried. My personal spiritual path has a saying: "we are infinitely tolerant, save of intolerance."

[stephaniec]

I understand why It's so incredibly hard to understand the events of the New Testament as being an exact observation of what happened , therefore being of scientific validity. There events seem so irrational in context of everyday experience. miracles ,healing ,god's actual son walking around or the ridiculous notion  that people are raised from the dead. The problem is your saying that the events of the New Testament are not scientific reporting of actual facts. but what if that one in a quadzillion  chance that the New Testament Is a scientific observation , but the events were so incredibly against common and everyday experience that no way other then just saying what actually occured would of been believed anyway.I admit  to being absolutely biased because I love Jesus, but I refuse to dismiss that one in a mega quadzillion chance that the seemingly impossible is possible because the son of god was the one who created the events.

[Illuminess]

I understand why It's so incredibly hard to understand the events of the New Testament as being an exact observation of what happened , therefore being of scientific validity. There events seem so irrational in context of everyday experience. miracles ,healing ,god's actual son walking around or the ridiculous notion  that people are raised from the dead. The problem is your saying that the events of the New Testament are not scientific reporting of actual facts. but what if that one in a quadzillion  chance that the New Testament Is a scientific observation , but the events were so incredibly against common and everyday experience that no way other then just saying what actually occured would of been believed anyway.I admit  to being absolutely biased because I love Jesus, but I refuse to dismiss that one in a mega quadzillion chance that the seemingly impossible is possible because the son of god was the one who created the events.

Oh, I'm not talking about the NT at all. The specifics of Christian belief are relevant only to the Christian. I'm talking about how one side dismisses the other. Trying to prove events in the Bible is irrelevant to faith and only relevant to those who feel the need to dismantle Christianity. That's not my agenda at all. I have my views about it, but the important point here is that there is room for faith and scientific thought at the same table. We shouldn't be bickering over which one is more right, or trying to proselytize by making a movie that probably cost over two million dollars when that money could have gone to a higher moral, egalitarian cause. We've got everything so backwards.

[stephaniec]

well, not to be too argumentative, How do  you know that people who profited from the movie haven't made considerable contributions to causes to help human beings.

[Illuminess]

well, not to be too argumentative, How do  you know that people who profited from the movie haven't made considerable contributions to causes to help human beings.

I don't know. They very well could have, but the film is still an atrocity. The Last Temptation of Christ had far more philosophical depth and made me appreciate the importance and meaning of faith while this one only made me think that some people who call themselves Christian haven't yet got the point. There are those with faith and those without. It's not up to us to convince people of anything, or to frighten them with allusions of hellfire. Live by example, give love, show patience, and keep going.

[stephaniec]

I don't know. They very well could have, but the film is still an atrocity. The Last Temptation of Christ had far more philosophical depth and made me appreciate the importance and meaning of faith while this one only made me think that some people who call themselves Christian haven't yet got the point. There are those with faith and those without. It's not up to us to convince people of anything, or to frighten them with allusions of hellfire. Live by example, give love, show patience, and keep going.

I'm sorry I really can't comment on the movie because I saw the previews and it looked like a stupid movie just from viewing the content of the previews. I remember something about the way he was treated for entering the debate which totally turned me off because I tend to get quite triggered when people talk about god, but honestly I  can't remember what triggered me to not go see it.

[luna nyan]

I have not seen the movie.

But I would like to make my comment regarding science and God.

I believe in a God who is good and orderly.  If He is so, then there must be laws to the universe that we live in.  We have science that explains some of these laws in motion.

I think along the lines that science explains the how of something happening.  God is the why.

I'm going to paraphrase an example.   A kettle might be boiling, and that is the result of heat generated in the coils being transferred to the water and increasing its temperature to boiling.

Why is it happening?  Well, I want a cup of tea.

[Jess42]

I will say this and I am like Ms Grace and am Spiritual and not religious. I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment on that but if the world of Science and the world of Spirituality no matter the religion, would ever come together we may find some very amazingly wonderous things. I think fear is the biggest motivator for keeping science and Spirituality separated. Fear that we may just find something that we may not want to know that would blow apart our illusions of ourselves to the world to the universe in general. And then again how it is may be the way its supposed to be right now. That we have to look within ourselves to find what we seek. Or some long to belong to a Spiritual community like a church and so on. If our Souls or Spirits are all at different levels of learning then everyone needs different things for the learning process.

I believe we hold near and dear to our illusions and we base our whole life on them. Einstein theorized that time, the past, present and future were all happening simultaneously. That's a thinker and could explain hauntings and so on. It's also theorized that gravity bends space and possibly time. We know for sure gravity bends light from a while ago during an eclipse when a star that should have been behind the sun was visable thus the light was bent by the gravity of the sun. So can we really even trust what we see at night in the sky is how it really is? I will even go so far as to wonder if the illusion of time even exists outside of gravitational fields. That may solve the space and time continuum to travel to distant stars. Yes I know, what does all this have to do with Spirituality and whether or not there is a Creator? It just shows how little we understand about the nature of the universe or multiverses, time and gravity. So in order to truly understand a Creator we would have to totally understand Creation and to understand that we would have to totally understand ourselves and the world in which we live and the planet on which we exist physically. We don't right now but we are slowly getting there. It's a paradox.

In my opinion, really there really should be nothing to argue about because we all experience Spirituality from there being nothing to an all knowing God that deals in our day to day lives by our own life experiences. There are no two lives alike and no two life experiences are completely the same so it would make sense that our perceptions of a God, Gods, Godesses or just nothing will not be the same. I respect all beliefs because of that, I don't think there is one right or wrong answer or perception just what is right or wrong for the individual according to that unique Soul.

I hope all that makes sense. 

[stephaniec]

sorry , I think I misunderstood your meaning. I didn't realize you were talking about the movie. I just saw the words religion, science and" Jesus was just a anthropomorphic tale I got a little triggered sorry for the science rant about the New Testament. I had just woke up and those were the first words my brain saw.

[f_Anna_tastic]

I agree with the title of the movie: God's not dead.

To be dead, you must first be alive and there is no evidence at all that a god, especially one of the gods of the abrahamic religions, ever existed.

[Jess42]

I would rather the Black Sabbath song, God is Dead. It makes much more sense to me.

[luna nyan]

Anna,

All right, I'm going to bite. 
On what basis of evidence are you so adamant about that?

I am truly curious, as I've seen several of your posts regarding spirituality and you are very absolute in your conviction.  To me, it requires faith to believe in god, and also to not believe in god.

I'm gently wading into things here as this is one of those things that can lead to heated debate...

[stephaniec]

I remember now why I didn't go see the movie. I felt quite repulsed that a teacher would decide pass or fail just on his personal belief system. I was triggered by the movie's  basic unethical presumption of right and wrong.