Did you ever have an earlier moment in life you could have come out but did not

[Rachel_Christina]

I'm just lucky that after all my wasted time I didn't ruin my look or something.
Not perfect and my voice is ruined. But can't win em all I suppose.
You just keep steady. Every time you start to feel good from transition you start to think you don't need it! D:

[Kirsteneklund7]

  My girlfriend discovered I really wanted to be a woman in 1989 when I was 20. I told her the whole truth. I didnt go down so well. More reason to keep my mouth shut for 30 years.

[Michelle_P]

Sort of.  I was out and part-time myself on some weekends for a few years, til I was 16.  That's when, in 1969, I got caught and turned over to my parents.  They got me medical help, a tiny bit different from what might happen today. 

[Tribble]

"Medical" help.  Yeah, my ex-wife tried to blackmail me into going away to "therapy" run by her church.

Conversion therapy.  Yes, that always works.

[Maddie]

1999. Was referred to and seen in an appt with the founder of the first transgender program in my state. I was heavily medicated at the time, but bottom line, I did not follow through.

(I was part-time 1992-1994 but only at home with my partner then, terrified of others finding out)

Also something back in 1984 comes to mind.  Being asked intake questions, some about gender, as a kid at a county psych facility.  I was violently upset at the time. Often wondered what might have happened if I hadn't been so angry and answered more truthfully then.

No use to dwell on all this, but definitely a part of the story.  Thanks for asking!

[Tribble]

Maddie, thank you!  You reminded me about that question on the intake questionnaire for my wife and my couples therapist after I'd already come out to her.  I chose the "Prefer not to answer" box next to Gender Identity Issues.

Surprisingly, I think it was worded in that way in about 1999 or 2000 at a predominantly Christian therapist.

[DawnOday]

When I was seven and telling my Mom I wanted to be a girl, she dressed me up. After that I dressed myself as often as I could. We had no Jazz Jennings or Carmin Carrerra's as role models. We had no support groups, therapists, surgeons. We had Uncle Milty, Flip Wilson, JacK Lemon, Tony Curtis, even Tom Hanks were all comic figures. Even today we are still the subject of jokes. Dinozzo gets involved with a trans women, chuckles all around. Has anyone found their struggle funny? I know I never did. I wish my Mom had been able to get me help early on. I wish in the 80's when I went to therapy I could have come out but it just wasn't as easy as today. And today is not that easy.

[CynthiaAnn]

Has anyone found their struggle funny?

Oh yeah, there were moments that were hilarious in hindsight. I can step back and giggle a little, like the time I was like 15 or 16 and decided to go hiking in our mountains, first under dressing, then later wearing only my Mom's one piece bathing suit, shoes and a day pack, when I thought I was in an area with no others. I mean the fabric was simply awesome, I felt wonderful, I was cruising, and then I rounded a corner and there she was sitting on a rock eating her lunch, and she just looked up at me and said nothing, I felt this rush of being discovered, I can laugh at those moments, because I was struggling back then to simply express myself, there were no outlets, no means, just some borrowed clothes and dream.

[Tabitha.1]

Yes, I spent years, not so much in denial, but thought I could suppress the reality and put it in a box, so to manage the inconvenient fact. There were very powerful external motivators for me to try to control this private truth that had to do with my physical safety, social acceptance, and career success. But, in conclusion, I did myself a major disservice by postponing the undeniable and inevitable in service to the needs of others while ignoring my own!

[jkredman]

When I was seven and telling my Mom I wanted to be a girl, she dressed me up. After that I dressed myself as often as I could. We had no Jazz Jennings or Carmin Carrerra's as role models. We had no support groups, therapists, surgeons. We had Uncle Milty, Flip Wilson, JacK Lemon, Tony Curtis, even Tom Hanks were all comic figures. Even today we are still the subject of jokes. Dinozzo gets involved with a trans women, chuckles all around. Has anyone found their struggle funny? I know I never did. I wish my Mom had been able to get me help early on. I wish in the 80's when I went to therapy I could have come out but it just wasn't as easy as today. And today is not that easy.

I don't know that I would call it funny.

Roughly around 1975, I did get caught cross dressing in my mom's clothes one Saturday morning.  Dad was off playing golf.  My sister was at one of her friends and Mom went to the grocery. 

I lost track of time.

So here I am all dolled up in a dress, slip, pantyhose, heels, and clip on earrings, and loving it; NOW having to ready myself to be severely ridiculed, embarrassed and punished.

She simply commented that I looked really pretty and suggested I needed to re-dress before anyone else got home.


This was about the same time that studies were being started on children who became identified as DES daughters.  (Is there any such thing as a DES son?)  She did what her OB/GYN instructed.  And yes, I'm a DES daughter.  Mom understood they, the medical community, were just beginnimg to explore how we, children, were affected.

I don't know if mom understood the depths of my dysphoria.  She did tolerate me raiding her underwear drawer and knew I was routinely cross dressing at the underwear level.  I thought I was really good at hiding it.  45 years later I realize she knew!

Mom had issues with Schizophrenia.  She had me in counseling with hervpsychiatrist?
When dad found out, he stopped it. 

I never got to the point with the psychiatrist where I could admit that I was mentally and emotionally a girl.



Mom passed in 1987.  At that time I felt I had my GD under control.  I was married, with 2 daughters, and cross dressing in my wife's clothes when opportunities presented themselves.

This was my first opportunity to come out.   I passed.  My second opportunity to come out in 1993.  It's discussed in a different thread.  Suffice it to say I passed a second time.

I compartmentalized it for 30 years.  It didn't help. Ultimately I had to accept Kate would not let me live if I didn't free her.

Love,
Kate



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[DawnOday]

JK  No it is not funny and I thought I stated that. Yes there are DES Sons and I am one. The one problem with connecting DES to males is that 1. No funding for research  2. It would blow up the religious belief that we choose to be transgender. 3. most if not all medical records for the time frame have been destroyed.                                     Here are the symptoms I possess that leads me to believe I was a victim of DES. 1. A micro penis <1.5 inches 2. Late descending testicles (age 17 1/2), inflamed infection (this was particularly distressful as I was in a theater watching the Exorcist when my scrotum turned bright red and itched like hell) deformed aorta, cardiomyopathy, atrial fibrillation, atherosclerosis, congestive heart failure, diabetes, and depression.

DES creates emotional trauma for all who come in contact with it: DES Mothers (and Fathers), DES Daughters, DES Sons, and DES Grandchildren.

Men traditionally are reticent to talk about the kind of highly personal issues that DES creates. It is often their mothers and wives who begin searching for information regarding exposure. DES Sons can experience the same anxieties, anger and relationship turbulence as DES Daughters

https://desaction.org/des-sons/

[Josie_L]

Yes, but never had the confidence to do so until now.
Confidence leads to happiness which leads to success and assurance. x

[Michelle_P]

Like a few others, I am a DES child.  I know I was.  That bottle of prescription prenatal vitamins sat in the medicine cabinet for years after I was born, and I saw it every time I brushed my teeth.  Mom even talked to me about taking DES and her miscarriages a few years before she passed away.

Research into the effect on assigned male at birth children has been largely suppressed. Multigenerational effects are still being studied over female descendants.  As far as I know only Dr. Scott Kerlin has studied the gender-related impact of this drug.

[jkredman]

JK  No it is not funny and I thought I stated that.

https://desaction.org/des-sons/

Dawn:

Yes, you stated it was not funny.  I was agreeing with you.


When reading your post, my mind was actually going to my memories and our similarities.  My memories still carry emotion so I may have not worded my post as well as I could have.


You mentioned microphallus and undescended testicles.  Same here.  I had to have the surgery.

One of my most vivid memories was being pulled out of school one day (around age 12) and being taken to a teaching hospital in the St. Louis area for what I now understand was a pelvic exam.  My most vivid recollection was that this doctor and nurse were not nearly as nice as my pediatrician (which was the only doctor I'd previously known....)


I get the funding issue.  We're not dying of cancer so there isn't any urgency to scientifically look into our situation.


I do challenge that we 'chose' to be transgender.  I hid it, fought it for over 50 years.  I accepted it after I realized my coping mechanisms were killing me.  I got to the point where I saw 3 options;  1) an intentional early exit, 2) keep doing what I was doing and exit from the consequences  within a few years, 3) face it head on with courage and acceptance of myself to live the longest life I could. 

I chose option 3 and started my transition. 

My point:  In the end I'm a Transgendered Catholic.  (If they have a problem, it's their problem and they can just get over it!)


Finally, yes my old medical records are gone so scientifically we'll never know the truth.  We only have our anecdotal experiences.  So I kind of look at it philosophically. 

Recently there were the news stories about the Chinese doctor genetically editing embryos.   He claimed he was doing it to make the children more resistant to some disease.  Unfortunately he's only succeeded in creating a new situation to be guessed at and monitored 30 to 50 years from now.  There will only ever be anecdotal evidence to indicate whether this doctor did good or caused harm.

So where am I going with this? 

Philosophically I choose to understand that my mom's OB/GYN was giving her the best advice he new to give.  I philosophically choose to believe my mom made her decisions out of love for me.  I was 11 years old when the medical community realized they screwed up. What was in the past was what it was.  We could only go forward.  That's what I'm trying to do.

Finally I used the description of 'DES daughter' because, based on my personal experience, I have to ask "Is there such a thing as a DES son?"

So maybe this simply gets back to the crux of my existence.  I'm anotomically a son, but mentally and emotionally a daughter.  In my heart of hearts, I've never felt like I son - even though I really tried to live up to the role.

Kate


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[DawnOday]

JK... I've read our introductions for the last three years and early on was amazed at how many had virtually the same background. There is no way it could be a choice. Yes I did choose, after a lifetime of distress, depression and self questioning. But was it really a choice or a cure? 

As with most my mother is not at fault. She was just doing what Doctor Lewis prescribed. But he was prescribing an untested medical treatment without having a clue about the outcomes. Forty years later we now have a lot more knowledge than they did then. The treatment did not work. Meanwhile approx 10 million women were subjected to this treatment. The fallout resulted in 1.5 million males and another 1.5 million females affected by the massive dosages. The women have been compensated while the males are seen as the work of Satan and their side of the equation is not even being studied to the extent it should be.

If I had it all to do over again I would not live the life I have led. If, I was born in a period of tolerance. I would have asked my parents to move forward in investigating the alternatives. I was crossdressing frequently at the age of thirteen. In a period of time that I still did not doubt the existence of God, I began to pray that I would wake up in the morning with a completely remodeled body and mind. It didn't work. So I hid too. It cost the love of my life, Wendy. Lifetime friendships and future relationships. It has ravaged my present marriage, but Joann is my rock on which I stand. She does not understand, Does not want to understand but she allows me to exercise my need to present in public. As a result we just celebrated our 35th anniversary.
I don't have all the answers. Sometimes it is confusing. Sometimes it is clear as the nose on my face. Something happened in my birth process that has been with me for 67 years. I do not regret coming out as the pressure to hide in plain sight was becoming too much to bear. I have lived in the northwest for 23 years and I have not made one friend in that time except for my wife. It took ten years to realize how much we need each other. Not as sex objects but as two people willing to share our life. My first two years up here were very difficult. I had a heart attack, I had had a TIA stroke three years before, I had congestive heart failure as I interviewed for a new position. it all culminated in me going septic and lying in a coma for four days, and getting a complete heart remodel . I bring this up as these symptoms are all examples of DES poisoning. The lesson I have learned is, while we all have similar circumstances each one of us is unique. I've been on HRT for over 2.5 years now. Unfortunately I was born with a logical mind that sometimes gets me in to trouble because I tend to be very frank. For me at this point, transition makes perfectly reasonable sense.