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1 year forced RLE for Hormones - how to?!

Started by Lebedinaja, August 24, 2015, 02:43:05 PM

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Dena

Quote from: Venus on September 12, 2015, 10:23:29 AM
Sorry!!! I didn't mean that in regards to anyone else. That's just for me personally, how I feel. I'd just never have the confidence for it, you know? In that respect, that makes you a heck of a lot stronger than me.
I just posted it to show you can find happiness without being the perfect woman. I did fix the voice this summer and I know other surgery exist to fix the rest but I am happy the way I am and comfortable with it enough to make fun of my deficiencies. It's far more important how you feel about yourself and the emotional image you project than what your body looks like. I see CIS women in the store now who are as tall as I am and their body isn't much different but we all believe in ourself and that's what makes it work.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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Martine A.

The Netherlands here. If I read the docs correctly, they require three weeks RLE. But there is still 18 months mandatory program (+months wait for it to start) before one can get into HRT. That is, the program has to take at least the 18 months.

My position, being unable to sign informed consent and get started is nonsense. Not having private sector where one can pay to speed things up is also nonsense.
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HRT - on the hard way to it since 2015-Sep | Full time since evening 2015-Oct-16
Push forward. Step back, but don't look back.
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-May-

1 Year of RLE required in germany, also you have to wait insanely long for appointments.
From the point where you call them and ask for an appointment to the point where you are in their office, you are most likely to be 1 year older.

It is cruel but there is no avoiding it, especially when you are not an adult yet, and it's not like male puberty is going to stop just because you have to wait. I could cry.
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Laura_7

Quote from: Martine A. on September 12, 2015, 11:59:43 AM
The Netherlands here. If I read the docs correctly, they require three weeks RLE. But there is still 18 months mandatory program (+months wait for it to start) before one can get into HRT. That is, the program has to take at least the 18 months.

My position, being unable to sign informed consent and get started is nonsense. Not having private sector where one can pay to speed things up is also nonsense.
Well the privat sector you have.
You have a choice of docs and for example can go to London.
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Martine A.

Quote from: Laura_7 on September 12, 2015, 01:08:56 PM
Well the privat sector you have.
You have a choice of docs and for example can go to London.
Then I should travel to UK every now and then to get meds. I am with non-EU passport. Then comes the question can I carry hormones without (local) prescription being non citizen of both countries. A whole nasty can of worms I'd rather not open. But it is an option.

Would sooner do that with Germany (or Belgium, do they have it?). /hey hey the Netherlands here/

If there is private practice that can give me all I need in the Netherlands, please the address.
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HRT - on the hard way to it since 2015-Sep | Full time since evening 2015-Oct-16
Push forward. Step back, but don't look back.
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Laura_7

Quote from: Martine A. on September 12, 2015, 01:32:55 PM
The prob is then I should travel to UK every now and then to get meds. I am with non-EU passport. Then comes the question can I carry hormones without (local) prescription being non citizen of both countries. A whole nasty can of worms I'd rather not open. But it is an option.

Would sooner do that with Germany (or Belgium, do they have it?). /hey hey the Netherlands here/

If there is private practice that can give me all I need in the Netherlands, please the address.
There are docs in the us who do hormone pellet implants.
You need two to three flights a year.
Upside is no hassle with meds.

You might alternatively try spain or france. It can be convieniently reached via car or train. And if you have a copy of the prescription for example there is nothing likely.

Another possibility might be they send you a recipe, or you have the meds sent to you via pharmacy after an initial visit of your doc. After all its a recipe in your name. What you need is a doc to issue it.

Concerning docs in the netherlands you might ask transgender groups there.
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Martine A.

Summa summarum,

1) Ops are one timers, they can be done anywhere, the concern is hrt and it not depending on good luck and shady doings that might be affected by countries 'fixing their systems' in the future. The supply has to be reliable and good quality.

2) If there is a private practice in the Netherlands, please share. There are actual barriers to what one can do with my passport otherwise. For the time being.
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HRT - on the hard way to it since 2015-Sep | Full time since evening 2015-Oct-16
Push forward. Step back, but don't look back.
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Michelle3

I am in one of these countries and it is called Slovakia or Slovak Republic. There is at least 1 year RLE rule before HRT and there is apparently no way how to reduce it :/ . I am living 4th month as me and have no idea how to deal with the waiting time. It is so dysphoric waiting and presenting because every other day I am under influence of testosterone and every day I will look very slightly worse than the day before and I know that these changes will be irreversible. I already had endo appointment, but because of rules, I cannot get hormones prescribed :( .

You also cannot change name or gender until you change your gender by orchi or GRS. I am studying right now and it is really hard to have your old name on all documents and presenting already as a female. Another problem is public transportation, etc. .

Forced RLE before HRT is very cruel and I am one of the luckier ones that I can get pass as a female.
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iKate

Quote from: Venus on September 11, 2015, 09:41:07 PM
That does sound really cruel. I don't think I could bring myself to go out into public dressed as a girl if I didn't have the voice, the breasts, and the butt. What's between my legs wouldn't be so important, but without those things... no way.

Yeah for me too that's pretty much it.

If I didn't pass at least most of the time it wasn't going to be worth it.
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Alyssa M.

Frankly, hormones are somewhat overrated for trans women. That is, the effects are pretty subtle. So the answer to the question "How to?" is the same whether it's in regard to RLE before hormones or after hormones.

Laser/electrolysis doesn't require RLE — or hormones.

Changing your hairstyle and your style in general doesn't require RLE — or hormones.

Working on making your voice reflect your gender better doesn't require RLE — or hormones.

In short, many significant parts of transition can be accomplished without HRT or RLE.

Like I said, I'm speaking for trans women; for trans guys hormones are a bigger deal. Also, forcing RLE before hormones is a terrible idea, just because forcing trans people to jump through pointless hoops is a terrible thing to do in general.

But as far as hoops go, it's not really as bad as is might seem if you're expecting that hormones are magic pixie dust that will turn you into Cinderella. Unfortunately, for trans women, they are not.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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iKate

To each their own but HRT was night and day for me.
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anjaq

Back when I transitioned, it was still common practice to do a 1-2 year RLT before hormones and surgeries. Nowadays this has changed a bit and hormones are often given after a few months or weeks.
I kind of challenged my psych back then about what he understands as RLT. I was out to my friends and family months before I came to him, but I was not dressing very feminine - he never dared to tell me what to wear though. I think I would have asked him why I should do that if other women will also just wear jeans, if he thinks I am a transvestite ;) - so he was ok with me basically just being out and being called with my new name by those who understood that it is important to me.  Most other things he could have asked for, I would have been able to say that this is not what other girls of my age (23 back then) would do , or that it is not in my hands how other people see or call me.

I did have the advantage however to get hormones earlier by a different route than the therapist, so my body did change and made me "pass" within the time I saw the psych, no matter what clothes I was wearing then. Also letting go of old trained "male" habits/behavior, changing my voice and having laser done in the face on my own money did help a lot.

I would not have wanted to wait for another year with my body becoming more male in that time, but if I would have to do so, I would challenge the concept and details of the "RLE" - what does it exactly mean - one cannot force others to accept oneself in the new gender role - so it cannot depend on that acceptancy by others, it also cannot depend on oneself wearing special clothes or makeup since this is not something other women would always do either.... so what remains if you strip all of this ? Being out to everyone basically  - and that can be done without changing a whole lot otherwise if that would be too awkward...

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Danionacloud

I'm a bit late to this post but I want to chime in anyway.  As far as I'm concerned,  rle started the day I legally changed my name and dropped my old persona completely.  Everyone who knows me knows me as Dani and a trans woman. How I choose to walk,talk and present on a daily basis has no bearing on my gender and I simply refuse to jump through those hoops.
I am happy to say that my GIC also accepted this date and has not so far questioned my decision to turn up for two of five appointments so far presenting more gender neutral than female.
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Sharon Anne McC


*
Stanford had a nifty program in its day during the 1970s and 1980s.

The patient spent an introductory week meeting with Stanford Medical Center physicians and counsellors, were sent home to meet with local doctors for hormones and counselling, they began their RLT and their clock started ticking, they returned to Stanford at two years for an evaluation, and they qualified for GCS / SRS if they demonstrated success in their transitioned role.  Otherwise, the patient returned home if they needed more time; they would return to Stanford when they were ready.

*
*

1956:  Birth (AMAB)
1974-1985:  Transition (core transition:  1977-1985)
1977:  Enrolled in Stanford University Medical Center's 'Gender Dysphoria Program'
1978:  First transition medical appointment
1978:  Corresponded with Janus Information Facility (Galveston)
1978:  Changed my SSA file to Sharon / female
1979:  First psychological evaluation - passed
1979:  Began ERT (Norinyl, DES, Premarin, estradiol, progesterone)
1980:  Arizona affirmed me legally as Sharon / female
1980:  MVD changed my licence to Sharon / female
1980:  First bank account as Sharon / female
1982:  Inter-sex exploratory:  diagnosed Inter-sex (genetically female)
1983:  Inter-sex corrective surgery
1984:  Full-blown 'male fail' phase
1985:  Transition complete to female full-time forever
2015:  Awakening from self-imposed deep stealth and isolation
2015 - 2016:  Chettawut Clinic - patient companion and revision
Today:  Happy!
Future:  I wanna return to Bangkok with other Thai experience friends

*
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XKimX

This all sounds very foreign to me, because I did not seek medical help in the US, and there were nothing like WPATH or other protocols in existence.  I was living at the time in a Mediterranean country known for its beautiful women and obsession with sex.  For married couples, the almost mandatory rule was twice a day.

There being no protocols floating around, and no gatekeepers or therapists, the surgeon designed his own, which, to me, seemed very logical given the culture in which we were living.  First, heavy duty T blockers.  If you could accept being unable to function as a male with out freaking out (considered by normal males to be the worst possible fate), that meant you were ready for the next step, feminization.  A good healthy does of estrogen for several months, during this time the emotional adjustments were made and and skin softening and fat distribution  begun.  If you were still on board with the new feelings and bodily changes, then directly to SRS.  In the surgeon's opinion, which I shared, "real life" as a female was impossible without female sex organs.  You continued with the estrogen after SRS and as the bodily changes became more obvious (breasts and facial fat), your RLE became easier, and without a source of  T to block, faster.  Should you need plastic surgery to the face or a BA, that was the speciality of Parisian surgeons, the only place at the time where trans in Europe could get post-op surgical care.

Regrets?  Well, sorry, it was your choice.  You can present to the public any way you want, but underneath that, there is a vagina that you can use or not.  Learn to live with it.  Next.

It certainly seems as if the whole process has become much more bureaucratized with control shifting from the patient to the gatekeepers, and what then would have been called excessive concern for the "what ifs" in life.  And I still think the way I did it was the best way.  It has been a wonderful and full life after SRS.

The only regretful MtF trans I ever knew were the "bottom" gays who thought that the "top" would love them more if they transitioned.  With the trans no longer being the gender that the top preferred to have on the bottom, those relationships did not last -- but these trans soon moved into the life of a normal heterosexual woman, married, and lived happily ever after.  And lived long lives because they no longer were at risk during the early AIDS epidemic that decimated their former partners.

I sense that there is a lot of frustration with American and Brit pre-ops over the long delays imposed on them.  A very justifiable frustration, as I see it.  Some are good little girls and follow the rules, but for those who are not so good, there are workarounds that can be found out there in the big world.  Different systems work different ways.
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jossam

That's the way it works in my country, too. Personally, I disagree with this practice. It sounds a bit...patronizing? I don't want other people to decide what's best for ME.

It happens after hrt though, before surgeries.

I live in Europe too.
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Shakku

QuoteThis is the case here in Sweden, although I think some people they can get access to hormones during the RLE-year. I think it depends from person to person. I'm not sure I like this idea, but I think there's a point with it, in that that they want to make sure that transitioning is really right for you. It's a long process tho.

I'd like to hear a bit more about that! The possibility to get hormones during RLE would be a relief, I think and help a lot.

QuoteThat does sound really cruel. I don't think I could bring myself to go out into public dressed as a girl if I didn't have the voice, the breasts, and the butt. What's between my legs wouldn't be so important, but without those things... no way.

Same here! I mean, I could be able to give a work to my body (corsets are wondeful for body shaping but one should be able to cope with it -CD experience-), but I can't bring myself to present as female with my face, facial hair (well, I could get that done), rather boyish/short hair (atm) and male appearance. I wouldn't feel...Legitimate.


QuoteNot having private sector where one can pay to speed things up is also nonsense.

I kind of get your point, but wouldn't that be elitist? I mean, for those who are penniless, it would create such frustration to know there are ways to speed things up and bypass some of the steps which are not affordable....

QuoteThen comes the question can I carry hormones without (local) prescription being non citizen of both countries. A whole nasty can of worms I'd rather not open. But it is an option.

I would love to hear more about getting hormones and, well, health care in general as non citizen in the country I reside.

QuoteI would not have wanted to wait for another year with my body becoming more male in that time, but if I would have to do so, I would challenge the concept and details of the "RLE" - what does it exactly mean - one cannot force others to accept oneself in the new gender role - so it cannot depend on that acceptancy by others, it also cannot depend on oneself wearing special clothes or makeup since this is not something other women would always do either.... so what remains if you strip all of this ?

Seems bold and I'm loving that way of thinking! But as to convice a professional, I don't know. My guess is that it wuld depend on the country you're in and how much they love/value bureaucracy. I come from France so I know a big deal about administration.

Oh, by the way, I can't remember where I read that in Norway, one needs to be straight after transition (for me MtF so with men) or would be denied the procedure (even after 1year+ wait). I'm definitely lesbian and that issue seems homophobic (which surprised me for a northern country) and without any sense? I haven't done any therapy yet but should I lie about my sexual preference? How not to be spotted then? And if someone could tell me that I'm absolutely wrong and that it would be OK to be lesbian, bi, whatever to transition in Norway, I would give you a thousand thanks!
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Jayne

In the UK the rules changed about 2 years ago.

When I first came out it was a requirement to do RLE to be eligible for starting HRT, I was refused hormones for 2 years simply because my eczema doesn't react well to make up, even though I wore eye make up I couldn't wear foundation to hide my 5 o'clock shadow & apparently I wasn't making enough effort!!

2 years ago the NHS changed their rules so RLE is no longer a requirement for HRT due to the risk involved if you struggle to pass.
RLE is however still a requirement for GRS in the UK on the NHS
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KristyWalker

For me I am happy to do the one year RLE it will help me go from 99% to 100% sure. My therapist said some doctors will prescribed hrt before a year passes which eased my mind but as of now I plan to follow my therapist's advice. I know we all go through this in our own ways and no one way is right or wrong.

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Jayne

Quote from: KristyWalker on March 03, 2016, 11:33:19 PM
For me I am happy to do the one year RLE it will help me go from 99% to 100% sure. My therapist said some doctors will prescribed hrt before a year passes which eased my mind but as of now I plan to follow my therapist's advice. I know we all go through this in our own ways and no one way is right or wrong.

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I agree with what you say about RLE helping a person go from 99% sure to 100% certain but I disagree with what your therapist said about some doctors.

I was invited to a meeting with a private gp who is looking into trans issues within the nhs a few weeks ago. She stated that ALL doctors within the UK should be able to prescribe hrt without having to wait for the patient to have been seen by a gender therapist, the new NHS guidelines allow GP's to prescribe hrt to prevent a patient self medicating.
She explained that every gp should know the normal hormone levels for men & women, all they should need is a blood test to check a persons hormone levels before starting on a low dose of hrt.
She did explain that some GP's are unaware of the changes in the NHS guidelines which were changed for two main reasons:
1: To prevent patients taking the risk of self medicating
2: To prevent patients putting themselves at risk to access hrt (the main concern is those who need time on hrt to help with passing)
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