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Breitbart Article DefendinG Transgender Ban from Military

Started by Bari Jo, November 05, 2017, 10:50:23 AM

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Bari Jo

Ill start by saying i am not an activist.  I dont engage in any politics.  However I was a military brat, and this issue resonates with me.  My father is retired career army, and I work with a lot of older people that are conservative.  I asked my dad what he thought of the transgender ban on the military, and his response was full of "those people" comments and saying we are doing it just for the free health care.  He does not know I am trans, and I always thought he'd be accepting.  I decided to test to see if others had the same thought process and one coworker referred me to this article.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/03/exclusive-jerry-boykin-judge-usurps-power-ignores-real-issues-transgender-military-injunction/

This is from a friend, so I'm not going to jump on him, but he is showing his bias.  He also mentioned he wouldn't want to be stuck in a foxhole with a transgender person

Anyway, I'm looking for my own ammo I can use on this ban since I know I will have to confront it later with my dad and coworkers.

From what I can see the author is trying to say that because we are trans we will need continued hormone therapy which is expensive.  And it's also difficult to source.  So in effect, why cover us at all, lets not let us serve in the military and by extension have any job that offers health insurance.  This same logic can be used for any number of ailments,  like poor vision.  Glasses are expensive and you likely will need them forever with continued differing prescriptions.  Take the expensive part though and I must say hrt is cheap.  Even if I wasn't on insurance, what I see as the charges for e, Spiro, progesterone and finesteride is well under $80 a month.  My health insurance for my dog is more expensive than that.  The next part of being difficult to source hence hard to get to deployments is ludicrous.  I can get my prescriptions filled in an hour at any drug store.  I could even have some of them compounded if I wanted to.  Worse to me is that it's possible to order online without a prescription from some sites.  Sure it might be more difficult to locally source medicine for deployments, but what army does that?  I don't see anything in this article about being in a foxhole with one of us.  I think that has been discounted since there are just so many possible fields in the military.  It's silly to think infantry is the only one, and a ban there means a ban everywhere.

As you can tell I'm a little amped up on this topic.  I don't like that I'm becoming an activist, I just want to know how to defend myself and support other trans people when these topics come up.

Bari Jo
you know how far the universe extends outward? i think i go inside just as deep.

10/11/18 - out to the whole world.  100% friends and family support.
11/6/17 - came out to sister, best day of my life
9/5/17 - formal diagnosis and stopping DIY in favor if prescribed HRT
6/18/17 - decided to stop fighting the trans beast, back on DIY.
Too many ups and downs, DIY, purges of self inbetween dates.
Age 10 - suppression and denial began
Age 8 - knew I was different
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Tessa James

Hey Bari Jo,  I am a life long community activist, politician and to the Breitbart crowd, a "libtard" ;D  I believe it is our duty as citizens to have and use our voice for support, dissent and redress or be guilty of complicity by silence.

Any sort of transgender ban is intentional and overt discrimination of a group of people by it's very definition.  The article is full of the usual erroneous assumptions and outright falsehoods.  Some folks just cannot seem to handle the truth of our existence and would like to have a social climate that keeps us in the closet and denied of our full rights to the public square and participation.

Not this girl!  I already have my DD 214 Honorable Discharge that lists my service in Vietnam with battle stars and scars.  I was queer and transgender then and remain so.  Transgender people are not all in transition, taking HRT or having surgeries.  People in the armed services who are transitioning can simply deal with it as a medical issue like any other person.

The truth is that queer and transgender people have always served and always will.  The reality of diversity could be celebrated rather than used as a weapon to harm each other.  Let's work toward that celebration:)
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Bari Jo

Thank you Tessa, your story certainly helps.  I hope to have lots of info to bombard my dad and coworkers.  I'm not liberal or conservative in politics, but some issues are, well my issues!

Bari Jo
you know how far the universe extends outward? i think i go inside just as deep.

10/11/18 - out to the whole world.  100% friends and family support.
11/6/17 - came out to sister, best day of my life
9/5/17 - formal diagnosis and stopping DIY in favor if prescribed HRT
6/18/17 - decided to stop fighting the trans beast, back on DIY.
Too many ups and downs, DIY, purges of self inbetween dates.
Age 10 - suppression and denial began
Age 8 - knew I was different
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Deborah

Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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Bari Jo

Quote from: Deborah on November 05, 2017, 12:53:44 PM
Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have saved this picture and will show my coworker when the time arises.  Thank you for your service BTW.

That's more than my dad has, but he's got some weird medical merit medal that he had to wear around his neck at dress blues functions.  He still won't tell me why he was awarded that.

Bari Jo
you know how far the universe extends outward? i think i go inside just as deep.

10/11/18 - out to the whole world.  100% friends and family support.
11/6/17 - came out to sister, best day of my life
9/5/17 - formal diagnosis and stopping DIY in favor if prescribed HRT
6/18/17 - decided to stop fighting the trans beast, back on DIY.
Too many ups and downs, DIY, purges of self inbetween dates.
Age 10 - suppression and denial began
Age 8 - knew I was different
  •  

Deborah

Quote from: Bari Jo on November 05, 2017, 01:34:51 PM
I have saved this picture and will show my coworker when the time arises.  Thank you for your service BTW.

That's more than my dad has, but he's got some weird medical merit medal that he had to wear around his neck at dress blues functions.  He still won't tell me why he was awarded that.

Bari Jo
I'll bet his award is the Order of Military Medical Merit.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Military_Medical_Merit

If that's it then it's for long and distinguished service.  Not that many people receive the award.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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MaryT

I can't see anyone having an answer to that record, Deborah.

No offence to your dad Bari Jo, but does he really think that anyone risks death or mutilation for free health care?
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Bari Jo

Quote from: MaryT on November 05, 2017, 01:45:25 PM
No offence to your dad Bari Jo, but does he really think that anyone risks death or mutilation for free health care?

I think he's turned into a bitter old man, just hating on anything for hates sake.  This same dad offered me an avenue to transition at age 13, but that was a long time ago.  I don't think he can remember anything that far back.

Bari Jo

PS I will not let myself turn into a bitter old lady.  I have too many hobbies that give me joy and life always surprises.
you know how far the universe extends outward? i think i go inside just as deep.

10/11/18 - out to the whole world.  100% friends and family support.
11/6/17 - came out to sister, best day of my life
9/5/17 - formal diagnosis and stopping DIY in favor if prescribed HRT
6/18/17 - decided to stop fighting the trans beast, back on DIY.
Too many ups and downs, DIY, purges of self inbetween dates.
Age 10 - suppression and denial began
Age 8 - knew I was different
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Deborah

Another very effective piece of evidence is Kristen Beck, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Beck .

My mother became extremely paranoid about everything in her later years.  I think that was mainly from watching a certain news channel, that starts with an F, 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  I've tried to inoculate myself against that by not watching TV at all since 2008.  I will watch Netflix and Amazon though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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Jenntrans

Quote from: Deborah on November 05, 2017, 12:53:44 PM
Here is an abbreviated picture of my service.  Ask him what he sees here that makes me unworthy of a foxhole.  I would like to hear the answer if you can get one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quite impressive Deborah and you have me eternal thanks Ma'am since you were a Major. But I worked for a living.

But seriously though I have known some really good officers when I was in. Enlisted will always talk >-bleeped-< about commissioned and I am sure vice versa. ;)

But the important part is that we all served and served selflessly and that makes us all one percenters because we signed up to do what 99 percent won't.

But the whole thing is that we have always served and with dignity. I hid it. Not for me but for you and everyone else. I could also express it at times while off duty. I found a way. :angel:

I spent all of my time in South Korea and even found a way to express myself. It was not that easy but I found a way.

What I believe is a president should not make unilateral decisions though. The House and the Senate need to write the law. Do I think the government should provide HRT or SRS? Yeah HRT but not SRS though because that would fall under the category of elective surgery. When I served they did not pay for elective surgeries other than in the case of war time injuries.

I hated foxholes. Fox holes are death traps. In training I was always an aggressor. I used my brain. No one ever looks up so climbing a tree is a really good tactical situation. Then there is the psychology aspect of it. During the change of guard duty I would make funny noises less than 20 feet from the person on guard duty. This was totally in the middle of the night so... People are different at night than in the day. They are more scared at night. It was fun though. The funnest part was hitting them at night with CS in the tent to test the NBC skills.

There was only four of us and we could trip out the whole company in the field. In the desert it was a lot harder but in the piney woods it was really easy. Not even our Co knew where we were. Most times we were eating supper, breakfast and lunch at Burger King, hell half the time we weren't even in the woods but we kept them on edge. I would hope after I ETSed that it kept some alive if they stayed in.
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Deborah

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 10, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
But I worked for a living.
LOL.  There is some truth to that though and I'll be the first to admit I would have been a sorry sergeant.  I was lucky though when I was an Airborne Company Commander that I had some of the best NCOs in existence to keep me on track; 1st Sergeant from the 82d Airborne Div and all three Platoon Sergeants from the 75th Ranger Regiment.  On top of that were some of the hardest and finest Soldiers that anyone could ever have the pleasure of serving with.  There was absolutely nothing I could dream up that they couldn't do or die trying.  Quitting was simply an unknown concept.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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Michelle_P

We served for the free medical care?  Um, someone clue the armchair commander in that trans medical care in the military is brand shiny new, and precious few trans folks have been able to enlist since it has been offered.

Transgender people have served with honor, for decades.  We proudly and patriotically volunteered to serve in our nations armed forces, and we feel this assault doubly on our identity, on who we are.  Our brothers, our sisters, our family and allies have been targeted.  We know the price of freedom, and this test of our freedom and resolve cannot be allowed to pass.

I was a transgender person in the US Navy, not out, but a dedicated and patriotic person there to serve my country and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.

Being transgender but not out made life considerably harder.

Sharon Brown, a Navy veteran now working as director of human resources at the Los Angeles LGBT Center described this.  "You're less productive, you're always on guard," she explained. "It takes a lot of energy to hide who you are when that energy could be used for other things. When you can be open, you're much happier, you're much more engaged. The sun truly comes up when you're allowed to be who you are and it's shining all day long because you can actually serve as your authentic self and be proud of who you are."

I worked very hard, as many trans military members do, and like many other trans folks, was an overachiever.  I was in the Navy Nuclear Power Program, and I impressed the staff sufficiently that I was asked to stay on for two years as an instructor after I completed the Nuclear Power Schools.  Following that tour, I was assigned to a submarine, one of the most decorated boats in the fleet, and crewed by more overachievers.  And yes, as I found out years later, that included several other trans folks.  I racked up more awards.

I received the Navy Achievement Medal, several presidential citations and command citations.  I completed a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics.  My crew was awarded the Nave Expeditionary Medal for our mission performance, along with the Battle 'E' and Engineering 'E.  Besides my primary Engineering duties, I took on duties in the fire control racking party, damage control party, and was assistant ship's photographer, recording mission data and assembling media for reports to COMSUBPAC.  I was the Engineering Dept 3M Coordinator, overseeing all maintenance and care for the nuclear power plant, engines and support systems.

Trans folks tend to be driven overachievers.  (Just ask anyone who knows me...)  We work hard to try and be accepted, far harder than those born with their assigned sex and gender identity in line, because we really do have something we need to prove.

We trans folks are among the best and brightest in the service.  And yet, our president thinks that discarding us is just fine, because we don't meet some ideological purity test.  He thinks that discarding us is doing the military a favor!

We are people like Kristin Beck, the first former Navy SEAL to come out as transgender.
We are people like Carla Lewis, brilliant, yet when it was discovered that she had sought help with gender identity issues, was cast out of the Air Force.

We are people like Emma Shin, who served from 1994 to 2014 in six deployments in the Marine Corps, including a combat posting in Fallujah, Iraq as an infantry platoon captain.

We are people like Paula Neira, a nurse and an attorney, who served for 10 years in the US Navy, and more recently was chosen as one of the experts to be consulted by the military as part of the 2016 decision to allow open service for transgender Americans.

We need these thousands of our best and brightest.  We need their skills, determination, and tenacity.

Oh, the expense!

A report by the Rand Corporation, which was commissioned by the Pentagon, states that having transgender members of the armed forces would not compromise military readiness, ability to deploy or require a significant increase in health care costs. According to the report, there are approximately 1,320 to 6,600 active transgender service members. Of those, only a fraction — between 29 and 129 — would be expected to seek transition-specific medical care annually. This would cost an estimated $2.4 million to $8.4 million a year, an amount that will have "little impact" on overall military health expenditures, according to the report.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1500/RR1530/RAND_RR1530.pdf

The report is quite detailed, at 112 pages, and is worth a read if you happen to be a policy wonk.

There are probably around 15,000 transgender service members if we include active reserves, and around 150,000 transgender people if we include veterans.  That's a lot of people to tick off.  That's a lot of dedicated folks to replace and train.

When these service personnel are honorably discharged the expense does not disappear, but simply shift to the Veterans Administration.  There is no real savings.  Note that trying to make being out as a transgender person an event worthy of a dishonorable discharge with a presidential memorandum would be an unconstitutional breach of Article 1 Section 18 of the US Constitution, as all judicial changes for the military are powers assigned to Congress by the constitution.

The expense really is pretty small.  The budget for Viagra tablets is several times the expected cost of gender confirmation surgeries.   Very few persons will receive this surgery in any given year.  Most transgender people never seek out gender confirmation surgery, but find other medical treatments such as hormone replacement therapy to be sufficient.

The impact on readiness argument is similarly foolish.  Very few persons will receive this surgery in any given year. The Rand study estimated the possibility of 30 to 140 new hormone treatments a year in the military, with 25 to 130 gender transition-related surgeries among active service members annually. Following gender confirmation surgery the military member is ready for light duty in about 2 months, and deployable after 6 to 8 months.  Compare this with a torn and surgically repaired anterior cruciate ligament, or ACL, a common knee injury which would have a three month recovery time and include physical therapy before the soldier could be deployed.

The expense to recruit a replacement for the discharged service member is about $75,000.  The training cost may be an additional $100,000 to $1,000,000.  Think about it.  Building and operating a nuclear power plant for the purpose of training 200 people a year is not cheap, but there is no way to gain that experience with classroom work and simulations.
A new report from Palm Center, the public policy planning group, states that the cost of replacing troops is about one hundred times the cost of providing their medical care.
http://www.palmcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/cost-of-firing-trans-troops.pdf



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Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
  •  

Laurie

  I came from a military family. My dad served this country for 30 years, my brother served in the Air force Blue berets for more than 10 years that I know of. There was never any question in my mind that I too would serve my country and I found myself in Navy boot camp when my lottery drawing was held. I never found out where I placed in the lottery as I was already in the Navy. I served 6 years in the US Navy and was honorably discharged as a Data Systems First Class E-6. I, like my family, was proud to serve my country. I earned my VA benefits which includes medical benefits just like every other military person does, By signing that blank contract to give my all for my country, up to an including my life if need be.

Laurie
April 13, 2019 switched to estradiol valerate
December 20, 2018    Referral sent to OHSU Dr Dugi  for vaginoplasty consult
December 10, 2018    Second Letter VA Psychiatric Practical nurse
November 15, 2018    First letter from VA therapist
May 11, 2018 I am Laurie Jeanette Wickwire
May   3, 2018 Submitted name change forms
Aug 26, 2017 another increase in estradiol
Jun  26, 2017 Last day in male attire That's full time I guess
May 20, 2017 doubled estradiol
May 18, 2017 started electrolysis
Dec   4, 2016 Started estradiol and spironolactone



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Deborah

Quote from: Laurie on November 10, 2017, 06:31:16 PM
  I came from a military family.
Me too.  It was the family business.  My father was in the Air Force for 30 years and my grandfather was an Army doctor in the Pacific  Theater in WWII.  My family served extensively in the Civil War, all wearing gray, and also in the American Revolution on the American side.  Those are the ones I know about.

One interesting and unusual thing is that I have a picture of my father as a child sitting in his great grandfathers lap.  He was a civil war veteran having marched in the Army of Northern Virginia when he was only 15.



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Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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Bari Jo

Sorry, I missed these responses.  I have the activism category greyed out in my preferences.  See I truly do try to stay out of it.  Thanks for the additional ammunition to talk with my father.  If his mind doesn't change based on these facts, I may decide to not come out to him.  There is still my sister I can get support from, and I think my mom too.  As for my coworker with this attitude, he will accept the arguments or not.  He will have to work with me though.  Our company is too inclusive for that kind of attitude.

Bari Jo
you know how far the universe extends outward? i think i go inside just as deep.

10/11/18 - out to the whole world.  100% friends and family support.
11/6/17 - came out to sister, best day of my life
9/5/17 - formal diagnosis and stopping DIY in favor if prescribed HRT
6/18/17 - decided to stop fighting the trans beast, back on DIY.
Too many ups and downs, DIY, purges of self inbetween dates.
Age 10 - suppression and denial began
Age 8 - knew I was different
  •  

Jenntrans

Look this is the whole thing. Elective surgery in the military is not paid for. I think that even as trans I would not want the government to pay for SRS or even HRT. I even served.

I was trans in the Army and served with honor. I never asked for anything after I ETSed or even when I served. Screw the VA. I am eligible but I will die before I take VA benefits. They made my Dad a Hypochondriac with constant appointments for anything from the >-bleeped-<s to cancer.  When I ETSed I had to serve 4 years inactive and for four years they kept bugging me for a "birthday" physical. I don't think so.... I mean back then I had to take a DOT physical to drive and I would fax the paperwork yet they kept calling me for a birthday physical. ??? Sorry but I can't make it. ::)

Let me tell everyone something. If you think a doctor will care if you shave your legs or whatever else, they don't. So if you just shaved your pubes and everything else they don't care.

The first time I did a DOT physical with an MD that had to touch me and tell me to turn my head and cough I did but told him it was because of the heat I was totally hairless and he told me he didn't care. I made excuses because it snuck up on me but he did not. He could have cared less and he can't say >-bleeped-< because he can't.

Look the doctor was gay, He told me. I don't care for gay guys touching me but he just happened to be gay. He didn't say >-bleeped-< but I did ask him if he was going to take me out after he touched me. He said maybe. LOL He is gay and we are friends but I am trans and he likes guys so... You never know.

I think what I am trying to say is that if someone sees you and grabs you totally naked small hairless balls and so on, then just be open. You never know who is who and who may be what. I was totally embarrassed being totally hairless yet HE opened up to me. ::) It was on little cue from him and that was what he said about hairy "junk". Hairy "junk" stinks according to him.

Long story short, you never know who you may meet. This was a doctor and I am nothing but a truck driver but we are friends and he don't give a crap. He can't because he has an open invitation at my home with my BF and me. He has a partner and his partner and I am friends.
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DawnOday

Trump spends more on a weekend jaunt to his golf courses than all the Transgendered vets wanting surgery in the next 10 years..
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Jessica Lynne

The Military is rife with alcoholics. I'll take being with a >-bleeped-< in a foxhole over being stuck in that hole with a messed up drunk any old day. That's just a decision that may save my life.
      These people shooting off their mouths invariably don't know us or anything about us. There opinions are uniformed ignorant pablum. I could give a crap what they say and do appreciate their stating their opinions so I can identify them for the drooling troglodytes that they are. Hebetude's are everywhere these days and they all seem to have an opinion. To them I would like to impart the old maxim that it's better to keep your mouth shut and thought an idiot, than open it and remove all doubt. But if you must, thanks. I appreciate the identifier.
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Jenntrans

Quote from: DawnOday on November 13, 2017, 03:33:31 PM
Trump spends more on a weekend jaunt to his golf courses than all the Transgendered vets wanting surgery in the next 10 years..

Maybe but the military and the people should not be on the line for elective surgeries.

I hate golf and have no idea how much a day on the greens cost. I could care less.

Look this is the deal. I would love to have had a nose job done by the US Army doctors but that would have been elective surgery to make me more aesthetically appealing. Of course my nose has never been a real problem anyway.

Now if my face would have been messed up by a sniper round then the US Military would be liable but I would not trust them.

Look. Forget all the HRT and SRS and FFS. You need to find a way. I did. But after the military though. Maybe before though too. ??? I was always weird though. Never really fit in as either wholly male or female. ??? >-bleeped-< it was weird because females would tell me >-bleeped-< and males would tell me >-bleeped-<. ::) Jesus Christ. I am different. Well I was kind of "weird" though. :-\
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Jessica Lynne

Quote from: Jenntrans on November 13, 2017, 03:57:11 PM
Maybe but the military and the people should not be on the line for elective surgeries.

I hate golf and have no idea how much a day on the greens cost. I could care less.

Look this is the deal. I would love to have had a nose job done by the US Army doctors but that would have been elective surgery to make me more aesthetically appealing. Of course my nose has never been a real problem anyway.

Now if my face would have been messed up by a sniper round then the US Military would be liable but I would not trust them.

Look. Forget all the HRT and SRS and FFS. You need to find a way. I did. But after the military though. Maybe before though too. ??? I was always weird though. Never really fit in as either wholly male or female. ??? >-bleeped-< it was weird because females would tell me >-bleeped-< and males would tell me >-bleeped-<. ::) Jesus Christ. I am different. Well I was kind of "weird" though. :-\

Well, there's no way in hell that SRS is an elective surgery for a truly transsexual woman. There should be no rehab for the drunks either. No need for Psychological help for those that require it either. And yet? the military covers those issues. And regardless, it's a football to keep us out and a football to throw us out. All they have to do is say they won't cover it, not declare us mentally unbalanced and take our livelihoods. Just another tool for ignorant haters to spread their ignorant agenda.
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