You ever hate passing.

[roseyfox]

This thread bothers me!! I just feel sad thinking about pre hrt how different things were for me and how much social dysphoria sucked!! Sorry for my word choice there, but I really wish I could forget some of those times I felt so bad about my body and how people treated me... Then again it does give me a unique perspective on gender roles and perceptions...

I guess it's lingering severe dysphoria? If that makes sense... I guess I "pass" enough to make that a thing and will need go learn to embrace it... I mean I still live in fear too passing or not passing. Bottom line trans is trans and the pecking order is created by insecure people is how I see it!

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

The point of this post is to talk about what a useless concept of what passing is and how it init self should not be a thing. It socital concept to say these trans people are ok and these ones aren't. Just because we feel like this one is passable and that one isn't. I don't hate that according to society that I pass. I hate that society forces this concept of passing.

[luckygirl]

I pass. For those that don't, it can seem life brings severe misery and can drive those with the issue into dysphoric fits and send them down the rabbit hole of severe depression.

Meh why is it a goal to pass.

I'm sorry, but this is pure gloating and hurtful to our sisters that didn't win the "gene pool lottery". Just kinda rude and indifferent to others pain.

[roseyfox]

Hi Roseyfox,

I get what you're saying and  I wish the world was like this.  If people want to judge people, they should judge them on their kindness to others.

Paige

The world just needs to learn you can't force people into boxes for one. But then to expect  them to just match not just the shape of the box. But the color design and texture of it as well. An if you don't or can't you are just not deemed good enough and then you are force to face social hate and challenge. Just because your not up to society standards.

We get rid of the boxes. Then we won't even have to worry about the texture and color. Or how will we can mimic or just naturally look in comparison to the box.

[roseyfox]

I pass. For those that don't, it can seem life brings severe misery and can drive those with the issue into dysphoric fits and send them down the rabbit hole of severe depression.
I'm sorry, but this is pure gloating and hurtful to our sisters that didn't win the "gene pool lottery". Just kinda rude and indifferent to others pain.

<Removed by moderator>
Society is brain washing trans and cis people to thinking the only point about being trans is passing. An it is not about that at all when you get to the core of the matter.It about living your true authentic self. If you feel the need to do everything in your power to pass then do you. But it shouldn't be a requirement for being respected as who you are. Nor the equality that you receive in job, houseing, and respect.

[luckygirl]

<Removed by moderator> 
People that can't or never will pass have to live in a world where there are no magic pony rides. People are total >-bleeped-<z to each other, whether cis or trans. It makes no difference. For those that don't and never will, they will never get to experience the world you enjoy. "It shouldn't matter if you pass or not" is a meme that just sounds tired to those that don't. Because simply put, you do and they never will. I'm sorry but it just sounds flippant. Kinda' like a rich person lamenting that poor people shouldn't be treated different than wealthy people and "doesn't it just sucks being rich sometimes". From the outside looking in, that sort of noblesse oblige just looks, well, indifferent......nuff' said.

[roseyfox]

<Removed by moderator> 
People that can't or never will pass have to live in a world where there are no magic pony rides. People are total >-bleeped-<z to each other, whether cis or trans. It makes no difference. For those that don't and never will, they will never get to experience the world you enjoy. It shouldn't matter if you pass or not is a meme that just sounds tired to those that don't. Because you do and they never will. I'm sorry but it just sounds flippant. Kinda' like a rich person lamenting that poor people shouldn't be treated different than wealthy people and doesn't it just sucks being rich sometimes. From the outside looking in, that noblesse oblige just looks, well, indifferent......nuff' said.

You probably did not realize but I didn't pass my entire first year. An that was when I came to this conclusion on my own. But if I had posted it then just the same as now. People would say that I wouldn't understand the other side perspective at all. An It would be spun that I was just mad that I couldn't pass for what ever reason and to try harder. An it goes along with the other argument that since I am privilege I can not see the injustices therefore I shouldn't talk about it because there no possible way for me to understand.

Ya this world isn't a pony ride and or magic I am not asking for that. I am fighting for the full equality of my trans sister and brother no matter there walk or life. How they look or live there lives. Equality and respect should never be based on how good or bad you look in society eyes. Every phrase throughout history we see that this thinking Becomes the pass and is frowned upon by future generations. All it takes to start that phase is a conversation and a fight.

[Linde]

Who decides if we pass or not?  My friends feel that I am the almost perfect woman.  When I wear a wig and keep my mouth shut, this might be true, but I do not feel this way, because I am afraid that i might have to talk to somebody, and my male speech pattern (not my voice) will give me away.
When I go as a man, I can pass all the time, because I learned that role over many years, but only as long as I keep my mouth shut, because my rather high pitched voice might give me away.
But who is it really who decides that we pass?  My body has been pretty feminin all my life, but because I presented as a male, nobody rally questioned my masculinity.  Why should anybody question my femininity, if I dress this same body into female clothing and present as a woman?  It is just my voice that will not fit into either gender scheme, but who makes the decission what gender I am?

I think the only passing that is of any importance is the belief in one self, and If I feel like a woman, I am a woman, and if I feel like a man, I am a man!  My boobs are still growing, ad once they are bigger, am I more woman and less men, even though my mind has not changed a bit?
I am still fully gender fluid, what would passing mean for me?  I just would want to be accepted as the person who I am, and I feel this is way more important than any passing codes that were made up by society and that may change next week anyway!

[roseyfox]

Who decides if we pass or not?  My friends feel that I am the almost perfect woman.  When I wear a wig and keep my mouth shut, this might be true, but I do not feel this way, because I am afraid that i might have to talk to somebody, and my male speech pattern (not my voice) will give me away.
When I go as a man, I can pass all the time, because I learned that role over many years, but only as long as I keep my mouth shut, because my rather high pitched voice might give me away.
But who is it really who decides that we pass?  My body has been pretty feminin all my life, but because I presented as a male, nobody rally questioned my masculinity.  Why should anybody question my femininity, if I dress this same body into female clothing and present as a woman?  It is just my voice that will not fit into either gender scheme, but who makes the decission what gender I am?

I think the only passing that is of any importance is the belief in one self, and If I feel like a woman, I am a woman, and if I feel like a man, I am a man!  My boobs are still growing, ad once they are bigger, am I more woman and less men, even though my mind has not changed a bit?
I am still fully gender fluid, what would passing mean for me?  I just would want to be accepted as the person who I am, and I feel this is way more important than any passing codes that were made up by society and that may change next week anyway!

Mhmm I completely agree. If your being your self you don't have to worry about society view of you passing. Cause you know who and what you are. Now society just as to learn that an realize passing isn't about appearance. It about realizeing your true self and being you.

[Devlyn]

When we subscribe to passing, we're reinforcing the binary. Great for some people, totally exclusionary for others.  There's no need to be a man or a woman to be authentic. So, yes, I hate "passing".

[emma-f]

Roseyfox - I do see your point, and I agree that passing shouldn't matter, and that the world should be a place where everybody can and should be who they wish to be and be accepted fully in that place. (PS. I prefer the word blending than passing generally as passing itself almost has connotations of dishonesty).

However, I dont think that your thread title is saying that, and I completely get where luckygirl is coming from there. "You ever hate passing" is kinda equivalent to "don't you hate it when your diamond shoes are too tight" and "don't you hate it when your purse is too small for your 20s", especially since you've now clarified thats not quite what you're trying to say.

And I'm sure Roseyfox that passing is important to many people, including yourself, which is no doubt why you recently posted in the Do I Pass? thread.

Myself, I think passing is important for my self esteem. I pass most of the time. The only time I've hated passing is when you meet a guy or girl in a bar and you're like "sigh, I'm going to have to have this conversation if this goes anywhere". Other than that I've only seen positives in passing. That shouldn't be the case. But in the imperfect world in which we presently live passing is a benefit not a burden, or a position of neutrality. It shouldn't be, but in my view it is.

I have utmost respect for any woman who can hold their head high, say "I am trans, hear me roar" and be who they wish to be not caring what the world thinks of that. But thats not me

Em x

[roseyfox]

Roseyfox - I do see your point, and I agree that passing shouldn't matter, and that the world should be a place where everybody can and should be who they wish to be and be accepted fully in that place. (PS. I prefer the word blending than passing generally as passing itself almost has connotations of dishonesty).

However, I dont think that your thread title is saying that, and I completely get where luckygirl is coming from there. "You ever hate passing" is kinda equivalent to "don't you hate it when your diamond shoes are too tight" and "don't you hate it when your purse is too small for your 20s", especially since you've now clarified thats not quite what you're trying to say.

And I'm sure Roseyfox that passing is important to many people, including yourself, which is no doubt why you recently posted in the Do I Pass? thread.

Myself, I think passing is important for my self esteem. I pass most of the time. The only time I've hated passing is when you meet a guy or girl in a bar and you're like "sigh, I'm going to have to have this conversation if this goes anywhere". Other than that I've only seen positives in passing. That shouldn't be the case. But in the imperfect world in which we presently live passing is a benefit not a burden, or a position of neutrality. It shouldn't be, but in my view it is.

I have utmost respect for any woman who can hold their head high, say "I am trans, hear me roar" and be who they wish to be not caring what the world thinks of that. But thats not me

Em x

Like I said the point of the title and the way I worded things was on purpose. It is to make you think about it in a completely different way than how most people would. An as previously stated I have posted pics In the do I pass fourm not so much because I want to pass but because I am curious as to what others see. An no I really don't try to pass anymore lol. Maybe I should just post a photo here of me that shines the light at how I go out half the time.

Because I know who I am and passing doesn't matter as long as I know that. An other trans girl and guys should here that. You don't need to pass to be you. You don't need surgery you don't need hrt. You can be whoever you want without those things. An society needs to learn passing shouldn't be the goal of trans people. Accepting themselves is the goal of trans people.  An they should be respected  for that not there looks. Hrt and SRS are more of  a support to help you understand that.

[roseyfox]

This is me still Rosa still a woman and i go out in the world like this. There is only a total of three things that makes a difference. An it not to pass it because I want to look as I do when I do. So here the threes things I Changed a nice close shave, hair down, and glasses are optional.

[Allison S]

Well to be honest I don't like when a guy clocks me and tries to make me feel down on myself about it. Maybe my posts here veered away from "downside of passing", but I'm tired of passing (or not) in my case being a way to manipulate my feelings.

Yeah it's a privilege at first to pass until the person finds out and your safety is potentially compromised... I think the OP is more so sounding like I eat cavier on a cereal budget... That's what being trans kinda feels like to me.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

[emma-f]

Like I said the point of the title and the way I worded things was on purpose. It is to make you think about it in a completely different way than how most people would. An as previously stated I have posted pics In the do I pass fourm not so much because I want to pass but because I am curious as to what others see. An no I really don't try to pass anymore lol. Maybe I should just post a photo here of me that shines the light at how I go out half the time.

Because I know who I am and passing doesn't matter as long as I know that. An other trans girl and guys should here that. You don't need to pass to be you. You don't need surgery you don't need hrt. You can be whoever you want without those things. An society needs to learn passing shouldn't be the goal of trans people. Accepting themselves is the goal of trans people.  An they should be respected  for that not there looks. Hrt and SRS are more of  a support to help you understand that.

As I said, I agree, but there is a gaping chasm between it not mattering and that it shouldn't matter. Don't believe me, put on a "I am Trans" T-shirt and walk through some of the roughest most prejudiced parts of the state where you live (I assume that you're American). That is a T-shirt that some women have to wear every day, that they can never take off.

You don't hate passing. You're at that lovely stage where you don't even try to pass, and that's great it really is. Maybe you posted in the Do I Pass? thread even though you don't care if you pass? Maybe you were merely looking for reassurance and you know what, that's fine too. As I say I pass most of the time (only my voice lets me down) but I'm sure that my friends would say I'm a royal pain in the backside beside I'm constantly seeking reassurance.

Point is there's no reason to hate the fact that you pass, no more than you should hate being American because by fluke of birth you were born there as opposed to sub-Saharan Africa. Inequalities exist in the world and they shouldn't and you are completely right to question whether they should or not.

There was an actress a while ago, I forget who it was, who made some kind of comment about hating being beautiful. She was widely slated, with comments about the worlds smallest violin etc. It was pointed out that we live in a world where beauty (and to an extent although passing is not synonymous with beauty, they are roommates at the least) is currency, it made no sense to complain about being rich in it.

Embrace who you are, love who you are, put up the good fight, smash that system that relies on the ability to pass or blend as currency. But don't say that you hate passing, because there is frankly no reason to.

Em x

[Rachel_Christina]

As I said, I agree, but there is a gaping chasm between it not mattering and that it shouldn't matter. Don't believe me, put on a "I am Trans" T-shirt and walk through some of the roughest most prejudiced parts of the state where you live (I assume that you're American). That is a T-shirt that some women have to wear every day, that they can never take off.

You don't hate passing. You're at that lovely stage where you don't even try to pass, and that's great it really is. Maybe you posted in the Do I Pass? thread even though you don't care if you pass? Maybe you were merely looking for reassurance and you know what, that's fine too. As I say I pass most of the time (only my voice lets me down) but I'm sure that my friends would say I'm a royal pain in the backside beside I'm constantly seeking reassurance.

Point is there's no reason to hate the fact that you pass, no more than you should hate being American because by fluke of birth you were born there as opposed to sub-Saharan Africa. Inequalities exist in the world and they shouldn't and you are completely right to question whether they should or not.

There was an actress a while ago, I forget who it was, who made some kind of comment about hating being beautiful. She was widely slated, with comments about the worlds smallest violin etc. It was pointed out that we live in a world where beauty (and to an extent although passing is not synonymous with beauty, they are roommates at the least) is currency, it made no sense to complain about being rich in it.

Embrace who you are, love who you are, put up the good fight, smash that system that relies on the ability to pass or blend as currency. But don't say that you hate passing, because there is frankly no reason to.

Em x

Word

[davina61]

I never expected to pass , not bothered just being myself but only 1 year on HRT and until I speak find I mostly do pass/ get gendered correctly. That's just a bonus nothing more

[roseyfox]

As I said, I agree, but there is a gaping chasm between it not mattering and that it shouldn't matter. Don't believe me, put on a "I am Trans" T-shirt and walk through some of the roughest most prejudiced parts of the state where you live (I assume that you're American). That is a T-shirt that some women have to wear every day, that they can never take off.

You don't hate passing. You're at that lovely stage where you don't even try to pass, and that's great it really is. Maybe you posted in the Do I Pass? thread even though you don't care if you pass? Maybe you were merely looking for reassurance and you know what, that's fine too. As I say I pass most of the time (only my voice lets me down) but I'm sure that my friends would say I'm a royal pain in the backside beside I'm constantly seeking reassurance.

Point is there's no reason to hate the fact that you pass, no more than you should hate being American because by fluke of birth you were born there as opposed to sub-Saharan Africa. Inequalities exist in the world and they shouldn't and you are completely right to question whether they should or not.

There was an actress a while ago, I forget who it was, who made some kind of comment about hating being beautiful. She was widely slated, with comments about the worlds smallest violin etc. It was pointed out that we live in a world where beauty (and to an extent although passing is not synonymous with beauty, they are roommates at the least) is currency, it made no sense to complain about being rich in it.

Embrace who you are, love who you are, put up the good fight, smash that system that relies on the ability to pass or blend as currency. But don't say that you hate passing, because there is frankly no reason to.

Em x

I believe you missunderstood the context of the argument. It not that I hate how I look but rather we are judge on are looks. I hate that those who past are treated better and given more equality than those who don't. Therefore the notion of passing has become a tool to punish those who don't and reward those that do. It a who argument about teaching Tran people to love themselves no matter how they look. An teaching society that passing isn't about looks. An how if someone does not pass then they are punished and are given less rights in the reality of it. An no I don't need reassurance lol. Because no matter how I look I know I am beautiful. The reason why is because I love myself an know who I am.

Posting those pics in transpassing which I don't do anymore. Was like I said not to be reassured but to see were I stood in the view of this society and how I be judged and understand why. But after much deliberation I have there is not a lot of good data or information that can be pulled because it is sadly biased in my favor. The amount of praise compared to critism at varying levels seem to be the same no matter what. Now when I went into the film industry that is we're I learned we're I stand in the reality of things. An got a equal amount of criticism with praise. So the only time you would say I would try to look a certain way is during a shot.

[roseyfox]

Lived in a hateful little state and town were everyone knows everyone all ready done that. That why I moved from Kentucky. Took one person pulling a gun on me yelling some homophobic crap and I was done at the point. But I am ready to go back now. I don't care about there hate and judgement an if one them feels the absolute need to try and shoot me like I was threaten when I first live there so be it. I won't live in fear anymore and if it kills me to live freely and how I want so be it. I am a firm believer in give me freedom or give me death. Because living in fear is just not for me  and shouldn't have to be a thing for anyone in this country.

[Paige]

Lived in a hateful little state and town were everyone knows everyone all ready done that. That why I moved from Kentucky. Took one person pulling a gun on me yelling some homophobic crap and I was done at the point. But I am ready to go back now. I don't care about there hate and judgement an if one them feels the absolute need to try and shoot me like I was threaten when I first live there so be it. I won't live in fear anymore and if it kills me to live freely and how I want so be it. I am a firm believer in give me freedom or give me death. Because living in fear is just not for me  and shouldn't have to be a thing for anyone in this country.

Hi Roseyfox,

Please be careful.  I'm amazed by your bravery but please be smart about it.  Pick the fights that will actually help the community.  You being killed by some ignorant bigot will not be helpful.  It will be terribly sad.

Take care of yourself,
Paige

[dee82]

Okay, have read the whole thread. I don't want to address specific comments, but simply state my view.

I feel like what is called a woman in the society I happen to live in. I believe my ways of thinking are more closely aligned to the women I have met and known during in my life.

If to be recognised as part of that group, and to ease my social dysphoria it is easier for other people to recognise me as belonging if I look a certain way, I am happy to be that way.

There are individuals in the world who don't care about following societal conventions. If they are happy being different, great! But I am not one of them and am trying to blend in.

Am I selling out to the stereotypes of society? Maybe. But we all have to pick our own battles in life. My battle may not be the same as yours.

Don't judge me, and I won't judge you.

~Dee.