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You ever hate passing.

Started by roseyfox, November 07, 2018, 07:27:47 PM

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roseyfox

Like I really hate passing sometimes "sound self absorbed right". Esspecially in this political climate."your probably saying wtf by this point" Were I constantly get into heated debate's."huh"

People both in public and online have both question my opinion of men aka trans women in women restroom without realizing I am trans. Quite litterly how would you feel if a man or thing follows you in the restroom. An then I have to go through the whole explantation I am trans. Then half of people make excuses saying I am different cause I pass an in there words beautiful. The other half will then try to argue I am ether lieing or fakeing being a women.

Yes I am privilege and should never complain about it. I just hate the feeling of being treated better than other trans girl cause I pass. Basically I hate being able to pass cause of the privilege so many people will give you just because you become acceptable once you look a certain way. Why people just accepted all in the same manner. Why does beauty and passing earn respect.
I rather not
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warlockmaker

No tg female who passes would ever regret being one of the lucky ones. The only negatives you will receive are from those that dont or barely pass. Enjoy your good luck but remember as you get older  passing is not only the looks but behavior, manners and speech.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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Allison S

Yeah.. I sort of know what you mean. But what's the alternative really? You're fairly young- trust me, if you can make your life easier now, do it! And I'm only 28 lol but that's the truth!
With that said, there's still always ways to be seen as trans or at least queer if you change up your look. I know, I find that pretty "basic" thinking, but in this material and superficial world we live in... It's true.

Am I the only one who feels like people crowd around more when presenting as female?! Even when I talk or give it away (that I'm trans) somehow, men tend to still gender me female... It's really amazing how much more people are accepting. I'm shocked! Today one guy told a friend "you almost hit a lady" as I walked past them lol I felt kinda bad because I was rushing and it wasn't his fault... I was laughing a bit at that [emoji23]

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roseyfox

Quote from: warlockmaker on November 07, 2018, 07:51:20 PM
No tg female who passes would ever regret being one of the lucky ones. The only negatives you will receive are from those that dont or barely pass. Enjoy your good luck but remember as you get older  passing is not only the looks but behavior, manners and speech.

Will then I am special. An I don't care about passing I would be one the lazyist people about doing it. I just do no makeup no effort no cares. *Shrugs* not trying seems be what gets me what I want and we're I want to be
I rather not
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roseyfox

Quote from: Allison S on November 07, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
Yeah.. I sort of know what you mean. But what's the alternative really? You're fairly young- trust me, if you can make your life easier now, do it! And I'm only 28 lol but that's the truth!
With that said, there's still always ways to be seen as trans or at least queer if you change up your look. I know, I find that pretty "basic" thinking, but in this material and superficial world we live in... It's true.

Am I the only one who feels like people crowd around more when presenting as female?! Even when I talk or give it away (that I'm trans) somehow, men tend to still gender me female... It's really amazing how much more people are accepting. I'm shocked! Today one guy told a friend "you almost hit a lady" as I walked past them lol I felt kinda bad because I was rushing and it wasn't his fault... I was laughing a bit at that [emoji23]

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

What I hate most when crreps start flirting so I tell them I am trans and they think that makes you hotter to them. Some people just are really creepy.
I rather not
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Northern Star Girl

I am not certain that I really understand the dynamics behind the title of this thread.
As a transgender it is intrinsic in our final goals to be able to pass reliably.

As a full-time trans-woman living where I do as a self-employed small business woman, it is certainly most assuring to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my clients, friends and my suitors consider and think of me as a female....  and that includes being the object of flirting and come-on/pick up lines and also the chivalrous efforts of the males and others to help carry heavy items, hold doors open for me, etc, etc. 

I personally am not seeing a lot of negatives with all of that... I am enjoying living as a female with all of the positives and negatives.   This is the life that I made the immense effort to achieve.

Danielle
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warlockmaker

Rosyfox. All women try to look good and I notice you have long hair akin to a female, thats trying in my view. If you pass you dont need to try its natural.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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roseyfox

Me growing out hair is cause I like long hair lmao. I don't believe in passing even if I do. When first started transitioning I did. But then I realized I don't care about it. I don't even believe in society gender or spectrum. I just believe in being myself in any fashion or way I want. I realized I can be both male and female at the whim of myself. I can pass ether way without effort. The only thing that makes me trans is a want for a sex changed. So no I don't try to be female. I only care about being myself.  :)
I rather not
  •  

Kylo

This is the flip side of trans issues having that much more visibility lately.

Passing gets a pass from some but is met with even more ire from others. Some see it as if you pass then you have "made enough effort" or something, these people are usually more open to the idea of transpeople in society provided they blend in - apparently they have difficulty accepting a non-passing trans person on some visceral level. Others who didn't know you were trans before because you passed 100% might dislike you because you "fooled" them.

There's some strange psychological process in people whereby they seem to believe they own what they've categorized with their eyes. If you can't easily be categorized you're an affront to some of them. Or if you've been successfully categorized and "vetted" in their eyes as passing sufficiently, then you're "ok". For some if they know you are trans it doesn't matter what you look like, you're the enemy. Depends on their views and ideology I guess, but you being there in front of them at all is taken as an entry into their personal lives when it's not.

It may have something to do with a phenomenon I've noticed in people honest enough to broach the topic with me, I don't know if it has a scientific term - but it's the habit of looking at other random people in everyday life and "sizing" them up, sexually. In order to do that they first identify if they are male or female. It's more common in men to do this, I think, but this might be where some of the disgust comes from. They're viewing others subconsciously as potential mate material, even if not actually looking for one; if someone doesn't match up right because they "confuse" them sexually, the result is usually a negative brain response. So if you pass, then that's a positive response subconsciously, but then if they learn you're trans you'll be subject to both the conscious and unconscious responses of their brain thereafter, and the ego-driven one will often override the other.   

Beauty and passing earns more respect for this reason I believe - it's hard-wired into people to want to identify a gender in another, and if that person is attractive and/or sexually attractive to them as well, that is hard-wired into them to behave far more positively towards. It's been studied and found that "conventionally attractive" people are more often able to use their looks to get what they want out of others. Advertising uses it relentlessly to fool us into buying things, and attractive people are all over the TV because it gets an overwhelmingly positive response from the audience, not the least of it being sexual attraction. If people look confusing to others that generally gets a negative response at least at first sight, as their brain struggles to categorize them.

Given that we've had drag queens and drag acts for a long time and the understanding is that we "know" what the person is under the look in one sense and then we approve of their ability to transform into the other gender and look attractive as that gender in another, I think it's just a biological response thing. Being trans gets more of a pass from the average person than being a non-passing trans person because human brains are fairly mechanical and subconscious in their approach to gender. 
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Katie

The P word I hate so much. Its ok for a crossdresser to use it but if your TS WTF. Are you a woman or are you a man? Are you a man pretending to be a woman to PASS with the general world.


If your a woman then you be a woman no matter how you look and you OWN it dam it. I guess i hate the p word because one of the definitions of it says something like to put forth something that is not real and getting away with it.

I myself use presentation. How does someone present to the world...............
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barbie

Actually passing is meaningless to me. At my work place, most people know who I am. I just pursue looking good or beauty, not passing. Some people treat me as a woman, others as a kind of man. But it doesn't matter as long as they regard me as a human companion. Nevertheless I use women's public restroom, just to avoid any fuss. When travelling with my family, I avoid entering the same public restroom at the same time with my wife and little daughter. As I cherish my family so much, HRT is not an option to me. My daughter is very interested in my fashion and beauty items, touching and inspecting nearly every new one delivered or purchased at stores.

barbie~~
Just do it.
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CindyLouFromCO

Quote from: roseyfox on November 07, 2018, 07:27:47 PM
Why does beauty and passing earn respect.

A direct quote from my mom.  "Because Cindy, beauty is a woman's power."

Not that I want to agree with my mom.  However the society we live in today beauty is a strength of ours.

So I guess that's one reason why.

I agree with the comment about passing being a "cross dressing" phrase though.

If you are a woman you're a woman no matter how you look.  I see manly looking cis girls daily.  The are still girls to me.
I've taken what others have offered, so now I'm giving back.
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roseyfox

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on November 07, 2018, 08:57:42 PM
I am not certain that I really understand the dynamics behind the title of this thread.
As a transgender it is intrinsic in our final goals to be able to pass reliably.

As a full-time trans-woman living where I do as a self-employed small business woman, it is certainly most assuring to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my clients, friends and my suitors consider and think of me as a female....  and that includes being the object of flirting and come-on/pick up lines and also the chivalrous efforts of the males and others to help carry heavy items, hold doors open for me, etc, etc. 

I personally am not seeing a lot of negatives with all of that... I am enjoying living as a female with all of the positives and negatives.   This is the life that I made the immense effort to achieve.

Danielle

Meh why is it a goal to pass. What even is passing complying to society standards of gender looks and clothing. Don't really care for all that. It was important when I first started but after 1-2 months after hrt. I completely lost the want to pass lol. It more if I do then cool. If I don't I won't care. I still post timelines and will ask people opinions at time of how they perceive me but it not because I am actively looking or trying just curiosity.

An ya those gender roles of male should do this. An female should do this is. Just is a crap ideal. More like be you don't give zero f what anyone else thinks. As long as your happy in your own skin. Ya do what you want to look pretty. But Don't let society force you into a box and manipulate you into thinking you have to like these things. Chivory is dead and unless a women show's it to a man they shouldn't expect it in return.

Also don't get wrapped up with what others think of you. Ya it is very difficult with society pressure. You just have to learn society opinion doesn't matter. If you know what you are then just be happy knowing that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. An if they do f them they aren't worth your time. Give respect to earn respect is my golden rule.
I rather not
  •  

roseyfox

Quote from: Kylo on December 01, 2018, 05:09:43 PM
This is the flip side of trans issues having that much more visibility lately.

Passing gets a pass from some but is met with even more ire from others. Some see it as if you pass then you have "made enough effort" or something, these people are usually more open to the idea of transpeople in society provided they blend in - apparently they have difficulty accepting a non-passing trans person on some visceral level. Others who didn't know you were trans before because you passed 100% might dislike you because you "fooled" them.

There's some strange psychological process in people whereby they seem to believe they own what they've categorized with their eyes. If you can't easily be categorized you're an affront to some of them. Or if you've been successfully categorized and "vetted" in their eyes as passing sufficiently, then you're "ok". For some if they know you are trans it doesn't matter what you look like, you're the enemy. Depends on their views and ideology I guess, but you being there in front of them at all is taken as an entry into their personal lives when it's not.

It may have something to do with a phenomenon I've noticed in people honest enough to broach the topic with me, I don't know if it has a scientific term - but it's the habit of looking at other random people in everyday life and "sizing" them up, sexually. In order to do that they first identify if they are male or female. It's more common in men to do this, I think, but this might be where some of the disgust comes from. They're viewing others subconsciously as potential mate material, even if not actually looking for one; if someone doesn't match up right because they "confuse" them sexually, the result is usually a negative brain response. So if you pass, then that's a positive response subconsciously, but then if they learn you're trans you'll be subject to both the conscious and unconscious responses of their brain thereafter, and the ego-driven one will often override the other.   

Beauty and passing earns more respect for this reason I believe - it's hard-wired into people to want to identify a gender in another, and if that person is attractive and/or sexually attractive to them as well, that is hard-wired into them to behave far more positively towards. It's been studied and found that "conventionally attractive" people are more often able to use their looks to get what they want out of others. Advertising uses it relentlessly to fool us into buying things, and attractive people are all over the TV because it gets an overwhelmingly positive response from the audience, not the least of it being sexual attraction. If people look confusing to others that generally gets a negative response at least at first sight, as their brain struggles to categorize them.

Given that we've had drag queens and drag acts for a long time and the understanding is that we "know" what the person is under the look in one sense and then we approve of their ability to transform into the other gender and look attractive as that gender in another, I think it's just a biological response thing. Being trans gets more of a pass from the average person than being a non-passing trans person because human brains are fairly mechanical and subconscious in their approach to gender.

Thank you very much. Your one the few that understood what I was saying. It not saying I hate passing cause I am privilege. It more I hate society interpretation of passing being the only way to accept trans people. An yes the way I worded was controversial but it to make other cis and trans people think of what they consider acceptable.
Even trans people will argue other trans people don't pass enough therefore they shouldn't be treated the same as me.
I rather not
  •  

roseyfox

Quote from: CindyLouFromCO on December 13, 2018, 01:05:37 PM
A direct quote from my mom.  "Because Cindy, beauty is a woman's power."

Not that I want to agree with my mom.  However the society we live in today beauty is a strength of ours.

So I guess that's one reason why.

I agree with the comment about passing being a "cross dressing" phrase though.

If you are a woman you're a woman no matter how you look.  I see manly looking cis girls daily.  The are still girls to me.

I agree beauty is both man and women power. Not the physical presence but the inner beauty. Flesh is meaningless in all ways. Individualism is beautiful and creates blossoming flowers. Passing is dust, An if it our society that desires it. Then maybe are society should be dust as well.
I rather not
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Allison S

This thread bothers me!! I just feel sad thinking about pre hrt how different things were for me and how much social dysphoria sucked!! Sorry for my word choice there, but I really wish I could forget some of those times I felt so bad about my body and how people treated me... Then again it does give me a unique perspective on gender roles and perceptions...

I guess it's lingering severe dysphoria? If that makes sense... I guess I "pass" enough to make that a thing and will need go learn to embrace it... I mean I still live in fear too passing or not passing. Bottom line trans is trans and the pecking order is created by insecure people is how I see it!

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Janes Groove

Passing = passing a cisgender test as to whether or not one's superficial appearance merits them accepting you as a "good transgender" who will blend in and not rock their boat.  It is essentially identifying with one's oppressor.

It's not like history isn't full of people who did this to please the ruling majority at the time.  Just read a little about the civil rights movement in America.

My advice. Just be you.
  •  

Rachel_Christina

Real strange topic.

I pass visually. I don't just pass, I think going by reactions in life I think I'm actually good looking too.
I don't think I really pass with my voice, but based on my look, it gets me the rest of the ticks to be able to pass even face to face.
Visually in the streets, without anyone talking to me I pass, And I love it. I would not giveaway my ability to pass ever. It just means I can go about my days without weird stares. Ther will always be the few guys chancing their arms and staring, but I think that's a good sign all in all.
Sometimes scary though if they wistle or say things D:


  •  

Paige

Quote from: roseyfox on November 07, 2018, 09:49:10 PM
Me growing out hair is cause I like long hair lmao. I don't believe in passing even if I do. When first started transitioning I did. But then I realized I don't care about it. I don't even believe in society gender or spectrum. I just believe in being myself in any fashion or way I want. I realized I can be both male and female at the whim of myself. I can pass ether way without effort. The only thing that makes me trans is a want for a sex changed. So no I don't try to be female. I only care about being myself.  :)

Hi Roseyfox,

I get what you're saying and  I wish the world was like this.  If people want to judge people, they should judge them on their kindness to others.

Paige :)

  •  

DawnOday

I've always had female traits for compassion and wanting to help others. My wife didn't nurture our children. I did. I changed their diapers, I fed them, I woke up with them in the middle of the night, I played with them. I did homework with them. If I could have birthed them myself, it would have been so perfect. That's about as far as it went until I started my journey armed with information that I never knew existed. I have a pretty clear idea now of how and why I have always felt different. While my brain went one way, my body went another. At 18 I could dress like a beautiful woman and pretty much pass. I even had delusions that I could compete with Cheryl Tiegs and  Christina Ferrari as a model. If only we had Proactive instead of Clearasil. Today some 40 years later, passing is not such a big deal but respect is. I still think I am pretty good looking for my age and the effects of the HRT on my body is really pretty amazing to me. I wish fear was not a controlling factor in my life.  Ok I'm shallow. But as my male self I just didn't fit in, so they have actually been mis-gendering me forever and I have gotten used to it. But when they get it right, there is no better feeling. I do get peeved when my family addresses me as "Dudeman" which has been my nickname for thirty years. I am not Dudeman and really have never been Dudeman. Getting loaded and getting your wife pregnant does not make you Dudeman. We are still working on it but we are creatures of habit and sometime habits are hard to break. I just wish they could do it cold turkey like I did with my smoking.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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