"suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping..."

[sd]

Your going to die a slow painful death

That covers a wide range of things. Some would even say severe depression falls under that as well.

[LordKAT]

Never understood the idea of suicide for honor. There is no honor in dying.

[Hannah]

When one decides to end there own existence for whatever reason, it is a poor choice
The strong live, the weak die.

I could not disagree more with these statements. I don't believe people "commit" suicide, I think suicide, like the events leading up to it, happens to people. In detail, I have to disagree with the prevailing sentiment.

If one is traumatised enough that life will be unbearable, honestly I can respect the decision. Everybody here is quite familiar with getting the short end of the stick, who are we to say we have the worst of it and judge the decisions of others? Maybe they hurt even more. Unimaginable that someone could hurt even more than us, isn't it?

The strong live? I disagree with this as well. In terms of suicide, the strong die. If the chosen method is drugs, the strong will use enough and not wind up in the er instead of the morgue. A shotgun, they don't forget to chamber a round. The strong are the ones who are in such pain that they can run a knife through their wrists, feel that last click of the trigger or the icy freeze of the river. I don't mean to advocate suicide by any means, for most of us yes there are options. However actually doing it takes nerves of steel and I don't think we should judge those who have. Think about it for a minute, running a knife through your wrists; and we bitch and whine about electrolysis pain. How must the people who can do it feel? To judge them and call them weak is disrespectful.

I would do it myself, if I wasn't convinced I'd pop right back here and have to do this crap all over, and knowing my luck it would be in a place or time a lot less accomodating that 21st century america. If I thought I'd just go to heaven and be happy, baby I woulda been gone a long time ago...but I'm not strong enough, so I suffer and whimper. Yeah, the strong survive.

[VeryGnawty]

The strong live? I disagree with this as well.

I second this statement.  While cliche one-liners of evolution sound nice, they simply aren't true.  Human society doesn't really follow natural selection.  Physically, we have the technology to make weak people live.  Our society is screwed up enough that incompetent people can still be successfull.  And while all of that is going on, strong people are developing cancer.

The image of the warrior of society forging a future with his dominance is simply a fantasy.  The real truth is that it's more like a stampede.  Life is very chaotic.  Strong people don't always make it through, and weak people don't always lose.  Some complete loser can win the lottery.  And the strongest man you know could die instantly by getting struck by lightning.

Strong people are more likely to succeed, but the variation among groups is greater than the variation between them.

[Miniar]

it isn't "survival of the strongest", it's "survival of the fittest"
Those who aren't "fit" to take the amount of emotional pain they are in aren't weaker, they've just found their limit.

I still stand by my words.
If there's still a "choice" involved, then that's because the limit hasn't been reached yet. Once the limit is reached, there is no choice.

[finewine]

In my opinion, there is a difference between elective euthanasia (medically assisted suicide) and killing oneself in the more visceral sense (overdose, leaping off a bridge, etc.)

Leaving aside the legality and ethics of the former, it is mostly sought by those facing a terminal illness and/or living under what they consider to be intolerable conditions. Obviously a judgement would have to be made on a case-by-case basis but the decision to pursue assisted suicide is ostensibly made on rational grounds by the sufferer (or at least more considered grounds) - even if we might not agree.

In the latter case, it's more of a "distraught" suicide, in that the individual is in such a state of despair that making a balanced judgement is inherently impossible.  For these people, I reject the notion that they are "weak" because that presupposes a rational decision from which they're opting for an "easy way out".  Besides, I find any notion of suicide being an easy way out to be extremely dubious!

As usual, this is just my personal opinion

[Sandy]

Having attempted suicide on more than one occasion, that was the reason I gave myself.

I had lost the ability to cope, all other methods had been tried, and I saw no way out or change.

-Sandy(except one, of course)

[Chaos_Dagger]

I disagree.  I have attempted suicide on more than one occasion.  Or well got close to, yet chickened out (so glad I did.)  It is a choice and a very stupid one at that.  That being said, I don't blame people who make the choice as I agree that they most likely believe it is their only choice.  However, it's still a very stupid one, and the people who are dead due to suicide shall remain idiots in my eyes until I myself am dead.  Then if there is an afterlife, they will continue to remain as idiots.

As for the person who said that Samurai's Seppuku is acceptable, I still disagree.  It's just as stupid.  Then again I disagree with all their "acceptable" times they posted.  Even if you know your going to die a slow and painful death, committing suicide normally ends up to be just as slow and painful.  Unless you can be absolutely sure your death will be quick and painless, it shouldn't be acceptable even under the fact that you are going to die slowly and painfully. <<(They have painkillers for that)

For example, should one hang themselves they run the risk of thier neck NOT snapping, like my uncle.  This leads to slow and painful suffocation that you can do nothing about, even though at that point you've normally changed your mind.  My sister's friend's father (whom I've met) attempted suicide the "quick and painless" way of placing a gun to his temple, and pulling the trigger.  He lost his sight, it was bloody painful, yet he is still alive.  Death by slitting of the wrists, causes you to bleed out which is painful, and most people don't cut them properly and only end up in hospital. (Remember Kids, Across for hospital, down for morgue!). Seppuku as I already mentioned being one of that persons "acceptable times", is the process of stabbing oneself in the stomach and pulling the blade across from left to right to self disembowel.  Not quick, sure as hell not painless.  Finally there's drug overdose ( "lets take this whole bottle of sleeping pills and I'll drift to sleep for ever") No matter what type of pills, drug overdose normally involves painful stomach cramps (extremely painful, like worse than giving birth) vomitting, headaches and EVENTUALLY death.  Not quick and painless.

[Miniar]

Living in a state where you're too drugged up on painkillers to function, or in too much pain to function, is not living.

[Sandy]

For example, should one hang themselves they run the risk of thier neck NOT snapping, like my uncle.  This leads to slow and painful suffocation that you can do nothing about, even though at that point you've normally changed your mind.  My sister's friend's father (whom I've met) attempted suicide the "quick and painless" way of placing a gun to his temple, and pulling the trigger.  He lost his sight, it was bloody painful, yet he is still alive.  Death by slitting of the wrists, causes you to bleed out which is painful, and most people don't cut them properly and only end up in hospital. (Remember Kids, Across for hospital, down for morgue!). Seppuku as I already mentioned being one of that persons "acceptable times", is the process of stabbing oneself in the stomach and pulling the blade across from left to right to self disembowel.  Not quick, sure as hell not painless.  Finally there's drug overdose ( "lets take this whole bottle of sleeping pills and I'll drift to sleep for ever") No matter what type of pills, drug overdose normally involves painful stomach cramps (extremely painful, like worse than giving birth) vomitting, headaches and EVENTUALLY death.  Not quick and painless.

If you check the internet there are some sites that describe suicide methods and their relative advantages/disadvantages.  Also if you are willing to accept a great amount of pain for a short period of time some ways such as jumping off a sufficiently high building (over 7 floors) or under a train (but be quick before the engineer sees you).  You can accomplish it quite efficiently.

Let's not hijack this thread with this terrible subject any longer.  Ok?

-Sandy

[Agent_J]

I think that was the point. Suicide used for relief of pain and suffering.

That was the reason I considered it for much of my youth - to escape the daily emotional and physical abuse as the only other way out of it was to reach the legal age of majority (assuming the situations didn't lead to my death - came close on occasion) then fight back to gain my independence against a parent who was very invested in keeping control over me.  The source was my family and I was kept isolated (fairly easy to accomplish in rural USA when the abusive parent is around the house all the time) so I had no access to a support network or resources.  Suicide was definitely an attractive option and to this day I'm unable to answer the question, "why didn't you?"

[LordKAT]

Agent J,
I have a similar story but I did try. Several times.

[jesse]

i agree with it when tere is nothing left inside of you and no way out in sight hit the rest button and try again in the next life just try not to get bound to this one lol 

[lisagurl]

If someone is wanting to take their own life they are treating themselves like an object not part of humanity. Life is much more than just your body. You are part of something larger and you do not even recognize that. It is sad when one only views themselves materialistic.

[Lisa Howard]

Yes I agree with the statement, having made a couple of serious attempts. I would say that there is no 'choice' about it by the time you reach the point of no longer being able to cope.
Personally I had gone beyond the point at which I could weigh up 'options' if you like.  Rational descision making just didn't enter into it

Lisa xx

[Julie Marie]

Is it a choice to jump out the window of a burning building?

Is it a choice to stop treading water and drown because you feel too weak?

Is it a choice to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger?

Sure, they are all choices.  Just because these people are in extreme situations doesn't mean they don't have a choice.  Suicide doesn't happen.  You do something to make it happen. 

If your pain exceeds your resources for coping doesn't mean the pain will always exceed your resources for coping or that your resources for coping will never improve.

Julie

[finewine]

Ok this is bad taste facetiousness and I'll probably get scolded for it but my curiosity compels me to ask...

All these people who tried to off themselves several times...how come you're so bad at it?  How hard can it be?

I mean, nearly killing yourself even just once must be very unpleasant (time in hospital, stomach pumps, whatever) and surely that'd be enough to make sure you got it right the next time!

[Miniar]

If someone is wanting to take their own life they are treating themselves like an object not part of humanity. Life is much more than just your body. You are part of something larger and you do not even recognize that. It is sad when one only views themselves materialistic.

That argument is flawed because it presumes that being suicidal requires you to think of yourself as a bag of bones and nothing more.
I personally believe in far more than the physical existence that surrounds me at this very moment (if anything, I consider it possible that the physical existence isn't physical at all), that hasn't prevented me from knowing exactly where and how I'd end it (if it weren't for my daughter).

[lisagurl]

(if it weren't for my daughter).

So no one besides you daughter matters?

[Hannah]

How hard can it be?

Well it isn't really hard, but it can be tricky because the body has survival mechanisms that take over when the conscious mind is out of the picture. I used drugs, and had researched lethal doses and all the stuff that goes along with it. What I didn't take into account was that the hydrocodone would knock me unconscious and I would then vomit the rest of the slower acting drugs all over my sleeping boyfriend. An anti vomiting drug was clearly in order.

Since then I've read a book called Final Exit, a fascinating read, and had some chemistry education  and if I ever find myself in that place again I won't screw it up twice.