"Christians" and the Bible

[red]

HI

Just wanted to say that I'm not that smart, especially about the BIBLE, but I do read on it once in a while.  I don't go to church because in my town people who go to church are very judgemental just by my looks alone.

One thing I DO know though is that I love God and Jesus.  And yes there is a spot in the bible where God says he hates, but he hates the sin, not the sinner.  From my knowledge, God loves us all and don't want us to send ourselves down there (the H word).  I don't even identify as a 'christian' because people who call themselves christians often don't play the part.  Like when Pastor Massey told me I wasn't welcome to his church anymore because of the gender thing and he said I didn't "dress right".  IMO, a true christian person would invite sinners to church.  what's the use of going to church if you know the bible through and through?  What I mean to say is, real christians want to help sinners become saved. 

does anyone agree with me that religion is becoming ridiculous in this world today?

[Janet_Girl]

When people begin to say things like "My religion is the only way" or "You are committing a mortal sin", to me that is not what God intended.  God teach love, respect, forgiveness and acceptance.

Churches pervert those teachings to fit their own ends, mainly suppression of the human spirit.  That is why I am no longer a Christian.  Dogma is killing the truth of God.


Janet

[red]

When people begin to say things like "My religion is the only way" or "You are committing a mortal sin", to me that is not what God intended.  God teach love, respect, forgiveness and acceptance.

Churches pervert those teachings to fit their own ends, mainly suppression of the human spirit.  That is why I am no longer a Christian.  Dogma is killing the truth of God.


Janet

I SOOO agree with you. You said it better than I did.  Thanks so much for commenting.

[MaggieB]

It goes without saying that you shouldn't have to be considered sinning or being bad at all.  Any church or religion that claims we are worthy of being mistreated or killed as so many of the mainstream churches do, is not a religion of peace and love.  Instead, they have become vehicles for venting hatred and anger.   

I was once a devout Christian, a leader in my church, gave sermons, led the responsive readings, sang in the choir and much more including attending and vigorously participating in Bible study. Now, I barely can consider myself one.  I went back to Transcendental Meditation.  I don't know who Jesus is anymore and I thought I knew him personally.

Maggie 

[red]

Perhaps you should point out to your pastor that Jesus's preferred company was prostitutes and tax collectors. But then, perhaps you're better off finding a church that will welcome you instead of reject you.

I don't understand.  Clarification please?

[red]

I was backing up what you said about how churches should invite sinners into their pews, not reject them. Jesus showed the most love and kindness to the people who in that time were looked upon as great sinners (outcasts, prostitutes, tax collectors, and other such people). He didn't yell at them about hellfire, he simply went among them, helped them, treasured them, partied with them, dined with them, and healed them. The people that he chastised and warned were the self-righteous Pharisees who thought they were so perfect in their religious practices, much like your pastor.

I do not believe that being trans or androgynous is a sin, though. If your pastor won't listen, then it may be in your best interest to find a church who will love and respect you for who you are.

Any time someone is told they are not welcome at a church, something is wrong.

OH Okay!  Please forgive my ignorance.  I totally agree with you.   Thank you for explaining it to me.  I'm a bit slow  at times.

[Miniar]

Might be worth it to buckle down and read the whole bible.
It's a pretty good read if you can get past all the "who begats" and legal jargon.

In the end, your faith is yours alone. No two people believe the exact same way in the exact same thing. Even in the company of a church, each person is different.

[red]

Might be worth it to buckle down and read the whole bible.
It's a pretty good read if you can get past all the "who begats" and legal jargon.

In the end, your faith is yours alone. No two people believe the exact same way in the exact same thing. Even in the company of a church, each person is different.

True.

[justmeinoz]

Hi Red,  when anyone gets on the "Bible says" track, I am reminded of something that was on TV here a while ago.   
Lord Robert Winston did a BBC-TV documentary on God, and  interviewed lots of people on the subject of God. When he was in the USA, he visited a radio station run by a Christian fundamentalist group.
When someone started going on about the need to follow the bible literally, Lord Winston stopped him with the question " Are you circumcised?" He, being a Jew was, but the other person had to admit that they were uncircumcised, and ended up looking like a total hypocrite the more they tried to squirm out of the answer. 
If people are going to demand others follow the Bible literally they have to be prepared to put their foreskin on the line I reckon!
St Paul said that some were eunuchs for the glory of God, which to me means revealing more of his creation, not commiting a sin.  Cheers Sandra. 

[Miniar]

Now, just because you start a thread doesn't mean that every reply on that thread is something directed immediately at you, nor that it's something you should take personally.
Secondly, just because you start a thread does not mean you get to dictate who answers the thread. This forum is not your property, threads you start on this forum are not your property either.
You do not get to end conversations, that's up to the moderating team to take care of. If you feel a thread's gotten too personal, or too far off topic, you can "request" that the thread be locked, but you do not get to call "conversation over".
If you no longer want to participate in a conversation it's as simple as closing the tab and not replying.

Have a good one.

[jesse]

this reminds me of something ghandi said once " i like your christ he is a peaceful and just man..I dont like your christians they are so unlike your christ"
jessica

[justmeinoz]

Hi Red, if you are looking for a good unbiased commentary on the Bible, Isaac Asimov, as well as lots of SF novels and science books, wrote 2 books about the Bible.
They are called, not surprisingly "Isaac Asimov's guide to the Bible"  Old and New Testament.
They are really good at explaining who begat who, where places were, and how the archaeological evidence fits in.  He points out where it is an early attempt at an historical document, or an allegory etc. 
I don't know whether it is still in print, but it should be available second hand.

As regards the whole question of "Sin", I have recently looked at the Orthodox view and it is very different to the Protestant and Roman Catholic positions. Basically they don't hold with the concept of "Original Sin" at all. There is a site on the Net covering TS and Orthodoxy, but I can't remember where I found it. Very encouraging though.
Hope this helps.  Sandra.

[Virginia87106]

I am a former Christian pastor and I am presently writing a book on Biblical interpretation.  Our premise is that the Bible was always meant to be interpreted allegorically, not literally.  We are blogging the book on line, and you are welcome to view the writings, and I pray they will be a blessing.

www.virginiaandbuckspeak.com

[Dryad]

When any kind of religious person says 'Sinner,' what they mean is: 'Person who scares me.'
(Most religious people don't use that word, by the way, and to their merit.)
As for what makes you Christian: I think it's trying to follow the teachings on Jesus of Nazareth. I don't call myself Christian, because I don't believe in deities and such, but I don't really think believing is even a prerequisite, really. You only need to believe if you want to join a Church.

[jainie marlena]

When people begin to say things like "My religion is the only way" or "You are committing a mortal sin", to me that is not what God intended.  God teach love, respect, forgiveness and acceptance.

Churches pervert those teachings to fit their own ends, mainly suppression of the human spirit.  That is why I am no longer a Christian.  Dogma is killing the truth of God.


Janet

this is very true

[AmberM]

As a liberal Christian in the United Church of Christ (UCC), I want to apologize for all who have misused scripture, God and Christ's names to advance hatred, injustice, cruelty and oppression. Hatred has no place in the body of Christ or in any religious tradition.  The God I worship and serve is a God of universal love, acceptance and inclusion who creates each one of us in the divine image. God does not create garbage and everybody no matter their faith tradition or lack thereof is a beautiful, blessed child of God. God accepts us exactly as we are. Religion at its best embodies God's unconditional and all encompassing love, compassion, acceptance and out of response to God's love and grace is involved in the work of justice, peace and reconciliation. Religion becomes fatal when it starts pronouncing absolute truth as dogma, when they contain God in a narrow box, when they arrogantly presume to know God's will and ways and misuses God's name for evil, injustice and hate. Scripture was never meant to be used as a weapon. Scripture points us into the mystery of God and is not meant to be worshiped. God is beyond all naming, knowing, and understanding. To limit the Almighty to one faith tradition or one scripture is to deny the totality of God's being and power. God is the loving creator, sustainer and savior of all peoples with no exception. Jesus taught us that the two greatest commandments that are the base of the teaching of the prophets is to love God with all being and love others as we love ourselves.

When we love others we love God, and by loving God we love the creation. Jesus confronted the Pharisees and others religious powers that be including turning over money changers in the Temple when he said, "My house shall be a house of prayer for all peoples yet you turned it into a den of thieves" or when he said, "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. For you do not go in yourselves, and when others are going in, you stop them. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell* as yourselves" (Matthew 23:15-17) By these examples it is showing that just because one is religious or a clergy does not necessarily mean that they are aligned with God's love, justice, and compassion. For too many of my fellow Christians they prefer to follow the religion made up about Jesus (creeds, doctrines) made up about Jesus many hundreds and thousands of years after he died rather than following the religion of Jesus (his teachings, example, and his deep and intimate encounter with God our Father whom Jesus called Abba/Daddy)

[tekla]

all who have misused scripture, God and Christ's names to advance hatred, injustice, cruelty and oppression. Hatred has no place in the body of Christ or in any religious tradition.

And yet god seems powerless to stop it.  Hummm.

[spacial]

all who have misused scripture, God and Christ's names to advance hatred, injustice, cruelty and oppression. Hatred has no place in the body of Christ or in any religious tradition.

And yet god seems powerless to stop it.  Hummm.

This question is frequently raised. Most of us have wrestled with it, I'm sure.

While it is completely understandable, it misses the point.

Firstly, that we all have free will. To interfere like some supervising parent, would eliminate much of, if not all of free will.

Secondly, the statement presumes the will (and purpose) of God. Morover, it imposes, upon God, the value judgements of our own perspective.

We take God as omnipitant and omnipresent. Therefore, what we percieve as the begining, the begining of the universe, for example, and the end, the end of the universe for example, is, for God, a single event.

However tragic it is, for those that do suffer, from the perspective of God, these are components in a single event.

Jesus alluded to this, when he told us to look to what we have.

This raises the question of purpose. There is so much specualtion on the purpose of God. Why He created the universe at all?

Islam teaches that men (and jinns), were created to worship god. Many Christian denominations teach that it is all a test. Most Jewish groups teach that it is a consequence.  Hinduism teaches that it is all an illusion which we, personally, create, to keep us from returning to the godhead. There will be many more.

I, personally, take the view that, I can't know.

[tekla]

While it is completely understandable, it misses the point.
No, it is the central point and the one that people who believe in priest-craft have been dodging since long before they even invented Jesus.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

Epicurus, Greek philosopher, BCE 341-270

[spacial]

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

The conclusion is opinion. As such has no validity in argument.

In any case, it was this postulate that I dealt with. Though demonstrated a different conclusion.