Marriage and MTF sexuality

[hectic]

i'm the spouse of a MTF transexual who is in the early stages of transition.  I am extremely supportive and encouraging of the process.  i now think of my spouse only as a woman.  we have renegotiated many gender roles in our 8 year marriage already. i've always been a tomboy, so i could care less.

i am still sexually attracted to my spouse. in fact, in some ways, even more. i treat her like a woman sexually and have taken on more of the male role. before marriage, my spouse was a straight male who had had a few gay experiences. i've always known about my spouse's past, and my spouse has always said that "she" was attracted 90% to women and 10% to men.

we had one tough year sexually before my spouse came out to me.  she was asking for things i was not attracted to doing with a "man".  once she came out, we have gotten closer again.

my spouse has said she feels her primary attraction is changing from mostly-like-women, to mostly-like- men. she is still attracted to me sexually, but does not know if that will always be the case.  she feels she wants to take awhile 'apart', but wants us to get a duplex and live next door to each other.  i feel we're entering the "teen" years, and my spouse wants to experiment with men.  i'm so incredibly torn over what to do. (when i suggested i would move a few hours away back to my hometown, she cried for 2 days straight and begged me not to do that).

please share your experiences and advice with me. i want to stay married.  i don't know what to expect in this "category" and have not seen enough dealing with this issue.

[stephanie_craxford]

Hello Hectic.

Welcome to Susan's,  this a great place to be and I hope that you enjoy your stay here and that we can be of help.

I do not intend to trivialize your issue, but your's is not a unique problem, I know that this is not uncommon with mtf transsexuals.  Many of us are not sure of our sexuality in early transition and often late into it.  It is something we obviously have to thiink and wonder about.  Personally I did not have any desires or feel any desires towards men, and I am still very much attracted to women, so I consider myself a lesbian.  For me I didn't feel the need to experiment.  My problem is similar to yours, in that my wife has flatly stated in no uncertain terms that she is not a lesbian so that means intimacy and sexuality between us doesn't exsist.  We haven't let this come between us in any way, and we have no plans on breaking up, but we have discussed the possibility that one of us will find someone who would satisfy our sexual needs.

I think that you and your spouse should really discuss this issue before you agree to any form of separation.  You need to know what her intentions will be if she does find that she is attracted to men and how it will affect you and your relationship with her.  Would you want to stay in the relationship or not.  Personally I don't think that she needs to experiment to find out if she is attracted to men as she has already experienced this.  I believe that it is something you are born with, and not something you've developed with being transsexual.  It really sounds as though she is bi-sexual, and wants the freedom or permission to indulge this.

The other way of looking at it is, what would you do if you were a married couple (non trans), a man and a woman, and your husband asked you if it would be ok if he went and experimented to see if he were attracted to men?  It would be cheating, I really don't think that she can have it both ways unless you are into swinging.  How would you feel, you are just as important to the relationship as she is, make sure you are not being manipulated in to agreeing to something you are not comfortable with.

You definitely need to discuss this before any decisions are made.  You didn't mention if she was in therapy, but if not, maybe you could suggest that she does seek it where this can be discussed with professional guidance, you could also be included.

I am no expert it this but I hope that I may have been some help.  I'm sure that you will get other advice here at Susan's.  Take it all, and go from there.

Take care,

Steph

[Cassandra]

Dear Hectic,

Gee, this is, as my UK friends would say, a sticky wicket. Heres what I believe her thinking on this is. She wants to see what it would be like if she had a boyfriend and brought him home for whatever.

She doesn't have anyone in mind right now and doesn't know when this might occur. She feels if she brought someone home it would be an awkward situation so she doesn't want to make you uncomfortabe so she figures if she had a condo next to you the two of you could still be together while she conducts her little experiment. Sound about right?

Now your side. So far you've been real supportive. The sex has not been all bad, better, now that you know whats going on, yet she seems to feel she needs more and your probably thinking why can't I be enough. Am I on target so far?

Here's the deal as I see it. The two of you are married, for better or worse, richer, poorer, yada yada yada, and somewhere in there is this part about cleaving only to each other.
No good will come of a seperation, period. If she wants another place were she can carry out her experiment that is her choice. You too will have a choice, to continue in a marriage to a spouse who can't keep her priorities straight or to get out while the gettins good.

If she leaves get the key! I'm being harsh here but I happen to believe that when someone starts sleeping around they are already gone. Just my opinion, hey I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Lay down the law, tears or no tears, she made a committement to you. You've been keeping up your end of the deal by supporting her transition. She needs to reciprocate by sticking to her commitment to you.

Cassie

[hectic]

we did some additional talking last night. you both really confirmed my own thinking which is "sh*t or get off the pot".  when i checked my email for replies, my spouse became really concerned and asked me what i was doing. so i told her i had posted this issue, etc. that just depressed her.

so as we talked, i reiterated earlier statements i had made which were that if you're married, you don't separate if you want to stay married.

i think the sex issue/sexual orientation issue is not all there is going on. my spouse is the child of a very nasty divorce. so when things got heated with one parent, she just went back and forth instead of ever resolving issues.  she's never had another relationship other than ours to teach her how to work through problems instead of running away.  add that to a personality that sees a glass half empty all the time, and we get where we are today.  i don't know whether the sex issue is just a ruse to stick a fork in the relationship.

the difficult issue is being put in a situation where your spouse wants to be convinced that everything is going to be ok and that staying is the right thing.  i don't always feel like i can be a cheerleader, or that i can put my own ego aside to listen to her talk about maybe she only still feels attracted to me because of some residual psych issue, but can't i come up with a logical reason for her to stay?

i feel like i'm riding some bucking bronco. i know that getting a divorce is going to be the biggest mistake in both our lives. but i don't know whether i can "convince" her about that or whether i have to let her fall on her a$$ and come to that conclusion on her own.  at this point, i told her if she wants a divorce, that's her choice, but i'm going to do my own thing, and not to count on a relationship with me that i can't promise i'll even want to have.  i just really love her more than anything and i have told her that.  she seems to want me to prove myself, throwing everything bad that could possibly happen up in my face and asking how i'm going to handle it.

she is in therapy, she is on anti-depressants, etc. i've seen her counselor with her a few times, but we have very different views of her therapist.  she likes her, i don't.  the therapist seems to separate out issues of depression and anxiety from the type of self-destructive behavior my spouse goes through.  the therapist thinks first comes SRS, then comes living "like a woman", and everyone else in her life needs to live on crumbs.  she doesn't see that my spouse is on the verge of cutting herself off from the very people who love her.

at this point, the idea of being close and being separated is off the table. but i don't know how healthy it is to try and fight for someone like i am. it's giving me that deja-vu "Gone with the Wind" feeling.

[sazi]

Hi Hetic... Welcome to the family!! I have found that everyone here is very comforting and supportive!! I am the SO of someone who is intersexed. His ID here is Cowboy. I have said many times in these forums that someone who is dealing with sexual identy issues are people that society doen't take the time to get to know and misses out on very special creations of God!! All of us are special creations of God's...just some get a little more.. **giggles**  You are to be commended for supporting your spouse in a very difficult time. That being said...I am going to agree with what the others have said.  When you are married to someone...you are married to ONLY them.  It has nothing to do with wether you want to "experiment" with a man or a woman.  It is still cheating.  I truely sympathize with the situation that your spouse has had to live.  It is not easy feeling one way and looking another, but that has nothing to do with being faithful to your partner. 

Personally I don't think that she needs to experiment to find out if she is attracted to men as she has already experienced this.

And she told you that she IS 10% attracted to men.  This is going to sound a bit sarcastic and I apologize but... sounds to me like she wants her cake and eat it too.  Have you asked her how she would feel if you told her that you wanted to sleep with the milk man to see if you wanted whole milk or 2%???  I apologize because I know that is snotty...but it is true.  Like I said I truely sympathize with her situation on feeling like she is something she doesn't look like...but your relationship and your vows are what is at stake here...not her "experiments".  I do honestly hope that you two can work through this problem and continue with a healthy relationship....but if she chooses that she wants to have multiple partners...I hope that you will have the courage to stand firm for your desire to have a monogamous relationship.  I think she needs to be reminded of your wedding vows. And I pray that she will think long and hard about the love she has before she thows it away for what will probably end up being a string of flings that will not be the fulfillment that she thinks it will be.  Stand firm on your support for her and for your self- respect!
Hugsss
Sazi

[hectic]

i don't want to give anyone the impression that my spouse is a "cheater". i know she would divorce me before she started another relationship. in talking with her, i think she was struggling with the idea of letting go of the marriage on one hand, and staying on the other.  so the idea of next door to each other sounds really good after long nights of some tears and fears.  you tend to say some really stupid things to each other at 3 in the morning after marathon talk sessions.

we've had much better talks today.  she's had a chance to talk with a TG friend who stated that as a woman, your fantasies and desires are a fluid issue. they ebb and tide based on your stresses, needs, fears, etc.  i have found that in myself as have my other gg friends. this is opposed to a "male" fantasy  that reflects honestly on sexual identity. there was recently a study on this i found fascinating.

my spouse is struggling with the ambiguity that comes with transition.  you want to know where you'll be, who's going on the ride with you and how you're going to get there.  she's a very black and white person, so she tends to miss the gray scale.  (which from what i hear is all you get during transition).  so she had fantasies about men and sort of jumped the gun and felt that it would only be fair to me to push the issue to resolution before going through transition for both our sakes.  but i think she has begun to admit that the ambiguity will continue for years and may never go away.  my own fantasy life has been all over the place.

the funny issue we talked about was that i was being too "nice". she was suspicious that i was being so loving after we went through the rough patch of pre "coming out."  i said, "honey. now that i know you're a woman i know exactly what will make you happy, because i know what i like. so just enjoy it and stop over analyzing it."

she seems willing to give that a try. she really is a beautiful, honest, wonderful person. i don't want anyone to form the belief that she's not.  i'm trying to break my own addiction to "knowing". and i'm learning that 2 women living together means you will go in big emotional circles, and what you said yesterday will change tomorrow if you keep talking. (so i guess i'll be kvetching again in 2 days). lol.

[hectic]

i want to add that all of your wonderful comments have made it easier to even the keel of this crazy trans boat!   and it was a little kick for my spouse when she found i was tuning in to new voices and may just meet or fancy someone new myself.    then the " i might like guys a lot" idea faded and the "who are you talking to and what's going on" idea came into focus.

it is reminding her of our one breakup during dating. she thought that was a good idea too, until i stopped taking her phone calls and started going on motorcycle dates with sexy Harley guy.  payback and all that.  i owe her a spank for this week!

[Cassandra]

Hectic,

Glad everyones posts were so helpful to you. That's what Susan's is all about. Looks like you two are back on track and are getting these issues worked out.

Good Journey


Cassie

[hectic]

well, my spouse has gone to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks, so my marriage may very well be over. as i will be out of town next week, i'll try to post something when i return and find out if i have a marriage left.

everyday finds her in a different mood, and i just don't know what's going on. things have changed between morning and night some days at our house.

if it's over, i'll be moving a few hours away. she stopped by last night, and it threw me all over again, so i think i'll just need to close the door on this. i still love her and that makes casual friendship impossible.

[Debtv]

I have always said "somethings are funner to think about than do" and maybe she needs to find this out.

My SO and I am pretty open minded and we have tried 3-somes...there are pleanty of men who will do that! LOL  Maybe just sow some wild oats....but do it together.

Good luck to you both!
DebTV

[hectic]

i don't really have much say in the matter, unfortunately. i just get to decide whether i will take phone calls that break my heart, or refuse to see my own best friend.

we had 8 beautiful years of marriage, and now in the last month i have no clue what is happening. i thought her disclosure about being TG was the big hurdle, but i was wrong.

[Kimberly]

*HUG*
Hang in there Hectic, I hope things turn out for the best with you.

[hectic]

you girls are just really wonderful, and you don't know how much it means to me.

[Cassandra]

Hi hectic,

I'm so sorry things are not working out as well as you had hoped. But I believe the fat lady has not yet sung. She may be warming up but there is still the chance she could loose her voice. Don't give up yet. Let her have her two weeks, a few days alone with herself and she may be singing a different tune. I can't begin to imagine how hard this must be for you, since you seem to be trying so hard and she insists on her current course of action.

In the end it may be the best thing for both of you. You could come out of this together with a stronger relationship or it could go the other way. Either way you both must choose the path that will be the best for you. Hon, I really do feel for you and hope things will work out. Know however that no matter what, you, will always be welcome at Susan's and we will be here for you.

Big Hugs!

Cassie

[hectic]

it is a very strange trip. my wife just showed up because she forgot her pillowcase (yesterday was her granola bars), and she asked me to go out for ice cream (provided we not speak about our current issues).i'm spotting an odd trend....

so i just got back. i had some coconut almond. yummy.

this is the most screwed up separation ever. i guess i should have rebuffed her offer for ice cream in favor of teaching her a lesson about life without me, but i'm not capable of turning down that particular poison.

you are all so great. our TG crowd has sort of shunned me during this, as to not burn any bridges with my spouse, so it really does make me feel better that you're all so caring.

cassie, if i do see the fat lady, i'm going to beat the crap out of her! post disclosure is supposed to be easier!!! i don't get it!

[Cassandra]

post disclosure is supposed to be easier!!!

Wellll, Actully in most cases it is easier for the discloser than the disclosee. After unburdening themselves from so many years of repression, the discloser may tend to forget the fact that for the spouse dealing with the new you as it were is not an easy row to hoe. I still think she is trying to see just how far she can go before this relationship breaks and is expecting a big round of apologies will make it all better.

It's your call. Sounds like it won't take living at the hotel long to bring her back down to earth. Maybe next time she comes by for that forgotten something you should tell her she can't come back until her two weeks are up. Just be ready to let her back sooner if she decides she doesn't want to go through with the whole two weeks. Just something to consider.


Cassie

[stephanie_craxford]

Hello Hectic.

At this point in time you have done everything that anyone could possibly ask you to do.  I asked my wife to read through this thread, and she agrees with me that you have been the most suportive of wives.  a person couldn't ask for anything more.

i don't really have much say in the matter, unfortunately. i just get to decide whether i will take phone calls that break my heart, or refuse to see my own best friend.

we had 8 beautiful years of marriage, and now in the last month i have no clue what is happening. i thought her disclosure about being TG was the big hurdle, but i was wrong.

It is so sad that she seems to be so willing to throw everthing away, and to leave you in the lurch like that, just to see if her urges are real.  She should have at least the courage of her convictions and be up front and honest with you.  It is also selfish, and if you will forgive me, a little stupid, to expect you to be there waiting with open arms, after her little trist on the side has finished.  Sort of like saying, "I tried it, I didn't like it, so I'll stay with you".  I don't think so my dear.

Maybe I've said too much, but it hurts to see such supportive people being treated as if they didn't count.  You gave your all, that's all that any of us can ask for.  I know that I am so thankful, lucky, fortunate, blessed, smiled upon, to have a suportive wife such as mine.  I hope that your's will see the light or at least be honest with you.

Take care, I really hope this has a happy ending for you.  Be sure not to leave, we're there for you.

Steph

[hectic]

i've made my 3 important points to her in regards to what I needed to stay living together...

1) a spouse that loves me and wants to be with me
2) a commitment to the marriage as a lifelong bond, and a desire to work through issues
3) no third parties


before she left to think things through, i've let her know that for me, i won't be able to be a "friend." she asked me why not, and i told her that loyalty is one of the things i value most in a friendship. my 2 best gg friends would never break a promise to me, no matter what.  she doesn't get a pass because she had a penis at one point. and certainly not when she breaks the biggest promise you can make to someone.

marriage is a sacred commitment for me, and i was raised in a strict RC household. you don't ever get divorced in my family, and you certainly never get remarried. when my uncles died, my aunts wore mourning clothes for the rest of their lives (veils and all). my spouse knows i will never willingly go to a divorce court, they'll just have to arrest me.  i'm giving it this 2 weeks, and monday i'll be going on my buisness trip for 10 days, so i won't be around to see and i'm not bringing a cell phone.

once i get back, i need to know that those 3 conditions will be met. so we'll see. i'm mentally preparing for the worst.

[stephanie_craxford]

Hello Hectic.

You are definitly a fighter, a fighter for your marriage.  I don't think there are many women out there with the determination to save what you obviously cherish.  The three points you list are great, short simple and to the point, no ambiguity, basically yes or no answers.

Stick to your guns hon, and don't let her off the hook.

Keep us posted on how things work out.

Take care,

Steph

[hectic]

well, i'm done. after 3 attempts to call my spouse tonight (on her cell phone, because i don't even know where she is), i have officially called it quits.

my final message was "i tried to call you to let you know what i've realized about myself during these last few days. you decided not to answer my calls for one of 3 reasons. 1) you're ignoring my calls, 2) you're with someone else, or 3) you were out looking for apartments. since i don't like any of those options, don't bother driving me to the airport tomorrow, i'm quiting my job, packing my sh$t, and leaving. it's over, i'm done."

and it feels damned good not worrying about what she going to say next, because there is nothing i could hear that would change my mind. i can't be perfect. i can't be any more understanding. i can't be an appendage to her life. if she can't appreciate me, i need to build a life with people who will. i can't wait with dread the next thing she's going to say. done, over.

steph, you're right. i would have done anything to save this marriage. but you can only push this woman but so far before i start shoving back. i can't take mindgames. i love her with my whole heart, but there is a line you cross that you can't ever step back over. she finally crossed it.  when she realizes the only things i've taken were my clothes, maybe she'll finally realize i wasn't in it for the creature comforts of home.