My two questions to christians

[Suzy]

Kristi,

Wow. If you feel enboldened with the right to peddle your Christianity in my face,
Bri

Well Bri, I didn't do that and never have.  In fact, I never asked you to believe it.  I realize that you won't and I love you anyway.  Look at the title of the thread.  I was trying to give an honest answer.  And in response to what you said, you are welcome in my home or church any time.  You would find yourself warmly received and not judged.

You are a beautiful girl and you don't wear hatred very well. 

Nikki,
I did attempt to give an answer from a Christian perspective.  Look at your title.  Guess you didn't want that after all.  Sorry I misunderstood.  But if you ask a question directly and specifically to Christians, please don't get offended when they answer you from their perspective, which generally does include the Bible.  Your question was about sharing with those who do not believe and the importance of it.  I did my best to answer the question you asked, even though it sounded like in asking you were really asking for permission not to believe.  Of course you don't need that.  You already have it and have exercised that option.  I fully support your right to do so.

By not wanting to respond in turn, I meant that your question seemed loaded, and asked in an unfair, unfactual way.  If I misread it, then I apologize.

What I was attempting to say was that some Christians are not Baptists (in fact, the majority) and have a very different idea of how they share the good news.  For some it is not about fire insurance (i.e., your question).  Rather, it is about a way of life.  I am one of those.  And I do sleep quite well most nights.

Peace,
Kristi

[Melissa]

Does anybody else find it ironic that Christians love to quote passages from the bible to non-believers in order to prove that the bible is credible?

By the way, I'm not an athiest; just a person who was raised in christianity and then had it snubbed in my face when I came out as TS as well as it being used as an excuse for my parents to show their bigotry towards me and not have to take responsibility for their actions.  It's given me a bad taste for the religion and frankly, I'm not sure what direction I'll go at this point in time in regard to my beliefs.

Melissa

[jamesBrine]

hello,
   Just to set some clarity out there. When myself or other christian quote scripture we ARE NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU ARE THE BIBLE IS CREADABLE. The reason for this is because the scriptures play a significant role in what christians think and practice. When you ask for a christian perspective it would be unreasonable not to use scripture. When Christians state a perspective we simply are giving our perspective on the issue and NOT TRYING TO FORCE OUR VIEW ON YOU. If you do not want to read our response you do not have to.

Brianna if you wish to discuss your atheist beliefs I would look forward to doing so if that is appropiate to the site rules. Regardless of our faiths/religions it will have a great impact on the individual's journey and effect how they view themselves in light of their situations in life. If you could start a thread on how atheism has played a role in your life regarding your TG or cross-dressing I would love to read about it.
    James
     

[Suzy]

Does anybody else find it ironic that Christians love to quote passages from the bible to non-believers in order to prove that the bible is credible?

Oh, Melissa.  I didn't do that either.  Not my style.  I would call that circular reasoning.  The question was about a Christian view.   I gave my answer.  I never even mentioned proving the Bible's trustworthiness, nor did I prooftext what I said.  I simply said that this is where the Christian understanding comes from, then showed the meaning of the passage, even to translating it from the Greek.  Why does that surprise, let alone anger anyone?  Didn't everyone know that already that most Christian viewpoints come from scripture?  And if you really read what I wrote, it flies in the face of the fundamentalist belief of what Bri and many others seem to believe as the stereotype of all Christians.  Really, again, read the title of the thread.  If you don't want to know, don't ask.

I wish you the best in your search.  I agree with you that many have been the victims of some terrible things in the name of the church and of Christ.  I am grieved over that as well.  I'm not crazy about the church.  But I do separate it out from my Christian beliefs about Christ and his teachings.  That is what I get excited about.

Peace,

Kristi

[Melissa]

I never said you did Kristi.  I just happened to think of that at the time.

When you ask for a christian perspective it would be unreasonable not to use scripture.

I'm not the one who asked for a christian perspective, since that is what I already best understand.  I have not practiced any other religion.  It's just right now, I've kind of stepped back to sort things out better.  Honestly though, please do not feel I am attacking you.  It was just a question.  If you were not trying to prove the bible was credible, then obviously the question did not apply to you.

Melissa

[Kendall]

Not exactly in defense of christianity, but it sort of does, the other religions that I know also believe that non believers wont receive whatever reward is greatest in their religion. Non budhists are going to find it pretty hard to reach Nirvana, without knowing the right way. Doubt any non Jewish are going to receive their greatest rewards. I dont know much about muslim, but I am sure a non islamic person will reach their greatest reward. Religions that I know of sorta do this and create (or if you prefer state, or say that god says) that only certain people (members) will receive the rewards. And the non believers will either receive lesser rewards, or even punishments (aka hell like states).

So I tend to know that even though that number may be correct for christianity, that the other religions also have a similar number, so the number is actually higher, when you include all the religions.

Although I am not a fan of christianity, I want to remain more partial to include the others in such attack.

[Elizabeth uk]

I'm a Christian  It's all about how you interpret the faith.

[Shana A]

I believe that when the Second Comming occurs, we will find Jesus working inthe soup kitchens of NYC; helping the poor in Calcutta; feeding and providing cool water in Dafur; holding the hand of someone dying of AIDS...

I'm not Christian, however I wish to thank Chaunte for a wonderful post. When or if the messiah should come, I believe he/she'll be working at the front lines to end suffering as she describes above.

No comment as to whether Christians should be spreading the word instead of watching a football game (LOL), but when they (Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc) come knocking on my door, please notice the mezuzah, and take the message elsewhere.

zythyra

[jamesBrine]

Hello,
   A response to the questions posed by Nikki_W
   1) How many people do you believe died and went to hell while you read this post?
   2) If your answer to question one  is a number greater then zero why are you here reading this post instead of out dedicating every second of your life to decreasing that number by one.

   My response to these questions will be done in a threefold manner: 1) response to the first question, 2) response to second question, 3) and offer a challenge to people

   Like many other Christians I shall give you a similar answer. I simply don't know how many went to hell during my reading of your post for it is not my place to decide on who is going to hell or heaven. Your probably thinking about the verse were Jesus says I am the way the truth and life and no one gets to the father except through me. For some this may seem as clear evidence on what it takes to gain salvation. It appears as if your view implies that we need to accept or believe in Jesus to gain salvation. I am taking this from your comment "dying without believing in your God every second."
The problem with the view you are presenting is that it is not one found in the Christian scriptures. (Acknowledging this theory has been taught) Christians believe that the saints of old we be in heaven. How can this be if they did not know or accept Jesus? The answer is really quite simple; salvation is not a matter of acceptance but instead an issue of rejection towards God (Christian God). God will judge his creation according to their hearts, what was revealed to that individual. In acknowledging or "accepting" what God has done for you does not "save" you rather it gives you the assurance that through the blood of Jesus you have gained salvation.

Your second question deals with two issues: 1) A Christian's sense of urgency, 2) what does it look like for a Christian to live a life for Jesus?
1) As you mentioned in your post Christians should have a sense of urgency in spreading the gospel message. It breaks my heart to write that Christians do not always live a life commanded by Jesus. I know with great confidence that I could give you a list of things I do I in my life that go against the words of Jesus. What I am trying to say is that humans, whether Christian or not, make mistakes and could not fully match up against the commands of Jesus. The reason why Christians do not always display a sense of urgency is simply because were human not because we believe that being a Christian means we have a responsibility to be hypocrites. After saying this, I do agree with you that if Christians displayed a greater sense of urgency and lived a life according to the teachings of their savoir Christianity would gain more respect.

2) The other part of the question I would like to answer is what does this urgency look like? You made mention that if someone came to your door in rags and a torn bible you would respect them for their convictions. The reality is that people will live out this urgency in many different forms. When looking back on history we can see this quite clearly. Take for example the early Revivalist movement in 1800's or the approach of the silent person living a Godly life and someone asks him a question about why he/she does as they do. We may believe certain approaches work better in our lives but this does not mean that other ways are wrong though may be harmful in certain contexts. There is no one way to get across the Christian message in various cultures and philosophical worldviews. The best way I have heard evangelism described is through Francis of Assisi, "At all times preach the gospel, if necessary use words."

Since there is not set plan on how to spread the gospel message every Christian will have to figure this out for themselves in their context of time and space. AS Christians figure out how this urgency is to look they will likely make mistakes and turn people away from the Christian God. Christian must therefore then have faith that their God is a fair and just God (topic I'm not intending to start a discussion on) who will take human mistakes and judge us according to what we know. I am in no way excusing Christians for continual inappropriate behaviour for we are told to be BECOME like Jesus the Christ.

Finally I would like to offer a challenge,
If you believe you have found the secret to a happy life would you keep it to yourself when many people die living empty lives?

   Let me take for example the atheist belief if I may. For an atheist who does not believe in life after death the focus then becomes living on earth. An atheist should display a strong sense of urgency in teaching their ways because time is an essential issue. We can see this in Jean Paul Sarte an atheistic existentialist who would teach about atheist existentialism in public areas. My intent is not to single out atheists and their beliefs but rather illustrate that the question posed to "Christians" in this thread can be applied to all other worldviews. I would love to some responses on how other faiths or religious groups would answer these two questions. Thanks.
         James

[Cindi Jones]

Finally I would like to offer a challenge,
If you believe you have found the secret to a happy life would you keep it to yourself when many people die living empty lives?

Yup.  No problem.  You see, I don't have to spread my word.  I live it.  If people want to know my secret, all they need do is watch.  By their works ye shall know them sort of thang.

Cindi

[Kimberly]

Finally I would like to offer a challenge,
If you believe you have found the secret to a happy life would you keep it to yourself when many people die living empty lives?

The secret to a happy life is within.

When I think someone needs a nudge I will if I think it is of value to them and it feels right to intervene.

   Let me take for example the atheist belief if I may. For an atheist who does not believe in life after death the focus then becomes living on earth. An atheist should display a strong sense of urgency in teaching their ways because time is an essential issue. We can see this in Jean Paul Sarte an atheistic existentialist who would teach about atheist existentialism in public areas. My intent is not to single out atheists and their beliefs but rather illustrate that the question posed to "Christians" in this thread can be applied to all other worldviews. I would love to some responses on how other faiths or religious groups would answer these two questions. Thanks.
         James

That is a fascinating thought. MUST an atheist NOT believe in reincarnation? I say no, because frankly I can (rather easily) describe reincarnation with no deity involved.

However, I do not have a 'strong sense of urgency' in a large part because I view many things in the world going according to plan and frankly I do not want to mess things up. In essence sometimes we want poopie to happen.

Or said another way I have no urgency because I KNOW you cannot escape the truth.

As for saving people from Hell and Hell in general, well, .


Still, whatever makes people happy... as long as they remember to be kind and compassionate.

[Ricki]

Wow , well whether i believe in some things or not the information here is amazing!  I guess if you guys were chef's you'd give me some good competition but alas its religion and scripture i cannot compete but i am reading and trying to understand the information and everyones views!
James you are very informed, good deal!
Kirsti, sweetie you are too! wow this would be like the iron chef competition but more like the iron angels competition.
anyway although passionate very good information!
kisses and crosses!
ricki

[littlegreenfly]

Hi Nikki_W,

Tough questions.  And, I do think you're picking a fight (though not necessarily wrongly so) with "christians".  Being one of them, I hope to give an answer.  I don't know how many folks have died since I read and am now answering you. I am sure it is more than -0-.  As far as why am I "here reading this post instead of out dedicating every second of your life to decreasing that number by 1?", I hope that by reading this post and honestly trying to answer, I may be doing just that.  Being a christian isn't about me anyway, it's about Him and what He did and does, and who He is.  I am certainly a flawed human being (actually veeeery flawed).  I am also amazingly grateful and humbled by what I've learned that Jesus' actions in his earthly life, his crucifixion, and his resurrection have accomplished.  I love folks to meet Him... and get to know Him... I'll fail, probably often, but He never does.  To me, the foot of the Cross is a great equalizer... we're all the same there.  I hope that's answered your question.  LGF

[kaelin]

I don't want to get too involved in this thread, but there's a few comments I would like to make (even though a few are redundant, I want to emphasize them).

The way *some* Christians (and practitioners of many other religions) act towards "non-believers" is ugly and betrays their faith.  A worthy philosophy is one built on love ("love your neighbor as yourself") and should be open-minded and patient towards emerging issues -- and believers should find real life applications with those attitudes in mind.  People should remain dedicated to expanding upon those evolving principles rather than performing stagnant rituals and memorizing facts of questionable origin, for reasons of functionality if nothing else.  "Believers" and "non-believers" alike embrace "love" to a varying degree.

Regardless of one's faith, constant diligence in spreading their word is not required, no matter how high the stakes -- people deserve some personal time, and perhaps the only way the bigoted can hope to temper their faith is if they take time to step back and reflect for a while.

[Jessica]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
  --  Mahatma Gandhi

"Most people are willing to take the Sermon on the Mount as a flag to sail under, but few will use it as a rudder by which to steer."
  --  Oliver Wendell Holmes

Those quotes sum up my views on the subject.

Jessica

[Susan]

Lets toss this in the mix....

Bowling for Columbine did it to the gun culture.
Super Size Me did it to fast food.
Now The God Who Wasn't There does it to religion.

Holding modern Christianity up to a bright spotlight, this bold and often hilarious new film asks the questions few dare to ask.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=3809295249394275228
or you can watch the slightly larger version at google

Your guide through the world of Christendom is former fundamentalist Brian Flemming, joined by such luminaries as Jesus Seminar fellow Robert M. Price, professor Richard Dawkins, author Sam Harris and historian Richard Carrier.

See the movie the Los Angeles Times calls "provocative - to put it mildly."

Hold on to your faith. It's in for a bumpy ride.

It's available for sale at their website, I've already bought a copy. If you like it buy one too. We need to reward documentaries like this one!

Btw I believed in God before this, I still do after watching this. But I have never felt Jesus was intended to replace God as many Christians do, he's just a signpost along the way showing a way to god...

[Shana A]

Let me take for example the atheist belief if I may. For an atheist who does not believe in life after death the focus then becomes living on earth. An atheist should display a strong sense of urgency in teaching their ways because time is an essential issue. We can see this in Jean Paul Sarte an atheistic existentialist who would teach about atheist existentialism in public areas.

I am agnostic and yet also believe that reincarnation is possible. These beliefs aren't necessarily counter to each other.

zythyra

[Sarah Louise]

I am a Christian, I was not raised as a Christian, I made the decision to accept Christ at the age of 30 and have been very involved in Christian Ministries.

Having worked with several well known Christian ministries and publishers, I found they were more interested in posting high numbers of conversions, not in the actual "individual" who converted.  And from experience, the numbers were highly inflated.

Having said that, it is unfortunate that most churches (I meant to use the lower case) do not accept Transsexualism and they are not "shy" about how they react to us.  Most of the time, the Church leadership does not welcome us (that does not mean that some individual members will not welcome us).

It is unfortunate that many use the Bible as a weapon of hate instead of love and fellowship.

I am still a Christian (just of the female persuasion now), I still believe in Christ, but have little respect for the local church and unfortunetely no real fellowship with them anymore.

Sarah L.

I hope this makes sense

[kaelin]

While not flawless, that is a pretty good documentary.  I like the effort that goes into the timeline, and to comparing Christianity against other mythologies.

[Cindi Jones]

Let me take for example the atheist belief if I may. For an atheist who does not believe in life after death the focus then becomes living on earth. An atheist should display a strong sense of urgency in teaching their ways because time is an essential issue. We can see this in Jean Paul Sarte an atheistic existentialist who would teach about atheist existentialism in public areas.

If an atheist were to take up the cause of spreading atheism, he/she would not be an atheist.  Atheism is not a belief system.  How can you share "nothing"?

Cindi