Acting Female

[Tori]

I am not clear what you mean here, but it has hints of being quite intriguing. Can you expand on it?

Beverley

Well Beverley,

There has been much discussion in this thread about acting female versus acting like yourself.

After reading "Passing Glances" which is full of interesting advice,  http://superliminal.com/melinda/passingglances.htm , I was inspired. The author talks about behavior in much the same way I have in this thread. She uses theatrical terms correctly.

In it, the author suggests using chat rooms and video games to test how feminine others think you really are. This was an interesting suggestion. Social media is cheap and you can try it from the comfort of your home. Since I had a remarkable FOUR days off this week, I got to work.

I have not yet been outed on any social sites yet. People are comfortable with my presence when I play a woman.

When I let my hair down at the end of the day, and chat as my outed self here at Susan's, I feel happy and at home yet I can see it taking its toll on the other members (not all of them).

This is not a scientific study by any means... still, my only smite has come from the TS comminy, when I was being my truest self (something many have suggested I do in this very thread).

It is fascinating to me that I have passed so easily on non-TS websites. Without having to worry about looks or mannerisms, passing can be fairly simple. Still, I have not dared try any female only sites. 

[Assoluta]

Sometimes we talk about 'acting female', but it's not about 'female' but 'acting feminine' - but that's not why we transition, not really, is it? We can act feminine and still be male - it's about that fundamental need to be female and be perceived as such, whether that be a butch masculine dyke or a femme lady.

When I feel happy, people around me do not. When I behave like my normal dysphoric self, the people around me seem more happy.

I've noticed this too - people don't tend to be unhappy because I'm happy, but it just seems for unrelated reasons other people have problems when I don't, and vice versa - maybe it's a perception thing, or a social dynamic that occurs.

[J R D]

I've noticed this too - people don't tend to be unhappy because I'm happy, but it just seems for unrelated reasons other people have problems when I don't, and vice versa - maybe it's a perception thing, or a social dynamic that occurs.

Probably is mostly a perception thing. When you have problems, you are more focused on those than you are on problems others may be having and when you are ok, then you take more notice of what's really going on outside of your own space.   

[Tori]

Great post assoluta!

I have a theory about the good mood thing. I am so rarely happy, I am not very well practiced at it. Others are not used to seeing me that way either so it can cause social awkwardness on both sides. If there is truth to my theory, there is motivation to practice being happy.

[Torn1990]

acting = fake

just be yourself, don't act in a certain way, just because society declares it to be "female".

Agreed.
But I myself have been considering this as well in myself. I feel like a women, but do other people feel it to?
Does it matter? I think it depends on the person, changing the way we act and behave isn't always like putting on a costume, but can be like freeing yourself from a very dark cage.

[Tori]

@ Jaime - I think that is an excellent point.

@ Torn - Well said. That is very similar to what has been going through my mind lately.

What feminine behavior will help me fit into my role in life and what will feel like selling out? The answers differ from person to person.

I have always had a big personality. Extroverted. I can't stop being that if I try. That aspect of my self knows no gender... yet it is often viewed as masculine behavior... and T does seem to add fuel to the fire.

[Cadence Jean]

Maybe it's more like the female stereotype tends toward considerate, polite, meek demeanor and the male stereotype tends toward brash, brazen, dominator behavior?  But it's not that any of these behaviors really have a sex or gender.  Either sex can be an ->-bleeped-<- and either sex can be a sweetheart.  If your personality tends toward ->-bleeped-<-(just theoretical here - not saying anybody's on here does), then people's minds may go toward male, because that's the stereotype that they adhere to.  If you act sweet, they think female.  If I didn't have a pic up, and didn't indicate my gender, how would I be perceived on here?  I'm just being me - it matters little to me if others perceive my personality as woman or man(I have trouble connecting personality with male or female, since personality is psychological and male/female is biological).  It's my presentation in person that determines if I'm man or woman - the social aspect of sex(i.e. gender recognition).  THAT is crazy important to me - I'm a woman and want to be perceived as such.  If I succesfully convey that to the viewer, then I can be as much of a dick as I want and I should still be a woman to them.

[Tori]

@CJ

Your post strikes a chord. I do have the fun ability to be a jerk, and be loved for being one (I blame the Irish blood). It is a perk of being me.

I tend to be much more polite online, when I wish to be seen as a woman.

What you say about personality certainly rings true.

As for social recognition, that can really depend on physical and vocal behavior.

Social recognition is important to me right now (subject to change).

Thank you for your post.

[Artemis]

I'm always a bit confused about how some behaviour is perceived as gendered?

I'm autistic, usually very shy and quiet but somethings I can't help it but I start to talk and talk and talk... totally dominating the conversation. This is usually perceived as an extremely "male" quality in people with autism.

And I think... wha? No, it's not?

Because what I'm doing is the same to what the "Ally McBeal" character was doing? There are many women who, when fired up about something, will speak very very very fast, not allowing for a pause, not letting anyone else have a say until they are done speaking.

In my experience most normal men that aren't even able to process language that quickly let alone speak at that speed?

Or take computers? You don't need muscles to program a computer? Your do need to be able to handle language very precisely with all it's meanings and nuances. Work very cleanly, you can't mess things up, you need to clean up after yourself. You also need to be able to multitask and communicate with other people. If anything, programming should be considered women's work! (And in many countries it is!)

So in the end, it's all about perception and social and cultural context, how someone either fits or doesn't fit within the  common narrative?

[Tori]

I am starting to view feminine behavior like cosmetic surgery. Some people need it to pass, others use it to feel better about themselves. Some don't need to deal with it because they don't care. Some don't need to deal with it because their natural behavior before transition was so feminine, society saw them as gay men.

This thread's discussion has been very fascinating to me.

I am a lesbian. Transition is important to me, as is being socially accepted as my true gender, but it is not vanity which is governing my desires. Acting über-girly and having every cosmetic surgery on the books are not high on my checklist... although most every woman likes to feel pretty from time to time.

For now, walking is my favorite project. A good tuck does much of the work a woman's wider hips can do. It is simply more comfortable to swing your hips around the tuck with each step.

Voice training? Hard. It is so easy to be critical when you are listening to yourself. Also, it is easy to worry about who else might be listening.

A walk is more of a feel thing.

I can imagine hair removal also helps.

[Artemis]

Not really "on topic" but I'm trowing it out here anyway: I often feel like I'm "acting male"? Just pretending learned masculinity.

I'm even worrying that my natural femininity might be leaking out somehow and this makes me both happy and sad... leaving me completely confused.

[Korra]

Not really "on topic" but I'm trowing it out here anyway: I often feel like I'm "acting male"? Just pretending learned masculinity.

I'm even worrying that my natural femininity might be leaking out somehow and this makes me both happy and sad... leaving me completely confused.

I always wondered that myself.  As a male I'm not really sure what behavior one could imitate to act like a man.  The only one I can really think of is to not walk with your hips like women do.  A lot of the people i see suggesting " Act manly, take charge be agressive!" is bad advice in my opinion.  I'm one of the manly bros in my social group and at college and I don't do any of that.  Hell, the people who do that are usually hated for being ->-bleeped-<-s. 

[Stephe]

Voice training can be a 'feel thing' too.

The other thing I have noticed is my adams apple has all but disappeared when I talk. Moving you're voice into your head does this.

[Tori]

I always wondered that myself.  As a male I'm not really sure what behavior one could imitate to act like a man.  The only one I can really think of is to not walk with your hips like women do.  A lot of the people i see suggesting " Act manly, take charge be agressive!" is bad advice in my opinion.  I'm one of the manly bros in my social group and at college and I don't do any of that.  Hell, the people who do that are usually hated for being ->-bleeped-<-s.

Having played many male characters on stage, there is a of behavior to choose from.

But yeah, I am me. I can act more masculine or feminine... and both serve a purpose... we act a part to fit a social role.

[4A-GZE]

I used to always sit with my legs crossed until people started making fun of me a few years ago, so now that I'm less insecure I've been trying to get used to doing that again. Other than that, though, the bull->-bleeped-<--ness of gender roles works both ways, so if I happen to act like a stereotypical man in some way, so be it.

[Tori]

@ Beverley and Stephe,

I do hear progress in my voice but good heavens! There is SO much work to be done.

I can only work for an hour or so at a time then I need to rest. Still have not yet settled into the sweet zone.

Very weird stuff. This is quite different from theatrical speech and voice work. The resonance is different, the muscles you use. I will be able to add some of the theatre stuff back once I settle in to the proper range.

Then there is what I like to think of as the female dialect. Women use different words and a LOT more inflection. It is not just a pitch thing.

It is hard work. Fortunately I have found some decent sources of information.

Thank you both for your suggestions and encouragement,
Tori

[Tori]

I used to always sit with my legs crossed until people started making fun of me a few years ago, so now that I'm less insecure I've been trying to get used to doing that again. Other than that, though, the bull->-bleeped-<--ness of gender roles works both ways, so if I happen to act like a stereotypical man in some way, so be it.

I have sat that way forever. It is how my grandpa sat. Comfy.

[AbraCadabra]

There is a saying: "Express, don't Impress!"

If you EXPRESS yourself – your own inner female - you be right on target.
If you try to IMPRESS some feminine version of who ever --- you will fail.
In fact you will become a parody.

I'm often startled by some of my own moves and actions which come automatically by now - yet are so not 'male'.

It seems to me there is still this body-memory, of what moves are 'not allowed' in presenting male - unless you will come across like a fem-gay-male, which I'm not.
It is/was MOST noticeable, ALWAYS was so when I was dancing - on my own. The message was: "can't do this, can't do that, make it more butch, must make it more butch, you look like a Queen STOP THAT, etc. etc"

Your body will have been absorbing loads of those messages - so you may simply be underestimating it's retention effect.
It's quite easy to say act like YOURSELF, if you been doing quite the opposite for years on end.
Oh, and it happens to females just the same BTW!
Why is it that some people just can't dance? Women too! Acting like a bag of potatoes.
Fear of ridicule be MY first guess.
It is fear of ridicule that will hold you back, also in EXPRESSING your real self.

It is mostly peer pressure and parents that plant those seeds of fear of ridicule preventing you from Expressing your real self. So we try to IMPRESS... rather then EXPRESS.

And as always ---- YMMV

:-)
Axélle

[Stephe]

You are quite right about inflection and dialect.

One of the other big things is breathiness or what I think of as smoothness. Male speech is very staccato. Men often will breath several times in one sentence. Female speech "flows". Also there is a choppy harshness to the start of words, especially consonants. Like if a guy says "Ah ha" the start of the "ha" has a sharp H. A female voice has a softness to the start of the H sound. It's subtle but if you listen to female voices this is almost universally true. I can't even make the sharpness there now if I try but it used to be very pronounced.

This is all subconscious learned behavior and repetition makes it change. I do NOT agree that unlearning our male speech patterns and mannerisms is "a parody" or "an act". For me now speaking like a guy would take a forced effort. Same with walking or sitting etc. Sure you -could- go over the top like a flamboyant gay man might present or speak in some horrid falsetto voice but no one is talking about that. All I've done is study how women talk and act where I live and tried to incorporate that into my life to blend in more.

Sure you could just "be yourself" to be "real" but if that belief is based on that no behavior is learned and it all comes from within, explain how we talk at all? I guess "letting our female self out" will magically change our speech to sound female? Is speech some hard coded thing we don't have to learn?  Of course not.  I don't see how it is somehow a parody of a woman to relearn things we learned when we were trying to fit in as males, which many of us did for at least some of our lives until we finally figured out that was pointless. If you have always lived as a woman since birth, than clearly you wouldn't have this issue.

[Tori]

I get what you both are saying Axelle and Stephe.

Playing a parody or a stereotype can lead to trouble.

Yet it seems many people in this thread aknowledge needing to act differently in order to fit into society as a female rather than a male.

Stereotypes are bad. Trained actors are encouraged to avoid them because an audience won't believe a stereotypical character is real.

What I am looking for is the female ARCHEtype. Archetypal female behavior is what society generally agrees is female behavior. Sure, a woman CAN sit wide-legged with her arms rested across the top of a couch but society will see her as sitting like a man. Bea Arthur's voice was abnormally low and often compared to a man's...

Anything a FtM woman can do to fit within the societal, archetypal mold should help them pass... especially if they are not a perfect 10 in the looks department.

@Beverley,

Yes, I am finding my range... just not used to being so musical with my tone up there (or in my natural vice for that matter)... that will take some time and practice. Interesting point on contractions.

Fortunately, I am practiced in moving my larynx. Nice tip!