Can we ever be "one of the girls"?

[Carlita]

When I was about 18 my girlfriend at the time said, 'You're the only boy I'd ever invite to a hen-party.' The moment she said it, a look of horror crossed her face at the fear that she might have insulted my masculinity and she started telling me, 'I mean that in a good way. I wasn't trying to be rude ...' and so on.

Of course, I was thrilled. I've always loved female company. I'm totally happy having a girly conversation and although I've learned over the years how to behave in a way that seems appropriately masculine, I've never, ever been one of the guys.

So for me, transition is as much as anything about becoming one of the girls, being able to socialise with women in an entirely non-sexual way, as friends, sharing experiences and emotions.

But I wonder: is this possible? Can cis-females ever truly accept a MTF transsexual as one of their own? Or are we, not being "real women" doomed to be outsiders?

Tell me, ladies ... what are your experiences of friendship, companionship and acceptance with other women? Are you one of the girls? Or have you felt the cold shoulder once they know you weren't born in a girl's body?

[Emily Aster]

I'm only full-time at home so things might be different if they knew me as me, but I'm more likely to get the cold shoulder from the guys than the ladies. The types of things most guys talk about just don't interest me. I try to use some buzzwords to stay in the conversation, but it gets over my head quickly. It's pretty rare that I run into situations like that with women.

[Misato]

I think it depends on the person or group but I hold there are many times the answer is yes.

Like I recently admitted in another post, here I am, MTF myself and I'm in group therapy listening to this other woman talk about her life and the thought goes through my head, "Oh my!  She really IS a woman!"  I doubt she, or anyone, knew of my previous misunderstanding.  Or suspected it for that matter, given that I'm trans and all.

I have come to have a lot of faith in that experience.  If there are people around you who see you as a trans-woman, instead of a woman, be yourself.  I really believe other people can have that same epiphany I did.  I still dress like a dude at work (Till Jan 14th), but after I came out last week the next thing I knew I was talking about shoe shopping with the women there and the next day one of the women asked if she could help me with my makeup.  It's like I'm in an ocean, and these women are pulling me onto the boat of womanhood, and I wanna say they're even eager for me to get on board!

[Carlita]

I think it depends on the person or group but I hold there are many times the answer is yes.

... after I came out last week the next thing I knew I was talking about shoe shopping with the women there and the next day one of the women asked if she could help me with my makeup.  It's like I'm in an ocean, and these women are pulling me onto the boat of womanhood, and I wanna say they're even eager for me to get on board!

Good luck on the voyage! The boat of womanhood is one vessel I've always wanted to sail on

[Beverly]

I have found women very supportive even when they know I am trans. Most women seem to have no problems with it. Men, OTOH....

[Carlita]

I have found women very supportive even when they know I am trans. Most women seem to have no problems with it. Men, OTOH....

Personally, I'd willingly accept the inadequacies of insecure men if I had the friendship and support of women in return ...

[Meshi]

Lol...I am sorry but I do not understand that comment at all.  Why would you accept the inadequacies of insecure men if you had the support of women?  Why would anyone need the support of women to justify some man with low self esteem?  If a man is just a loser id just ditch him..I wouldnt need the affirmation of a woman to realize that.  Ive never needed the support of women to make myself feel whole or to make a qualified decision .  I mean yeah, I do have women in my life and yes, I have asked advice from time to time but I do not think I am beneath them as a gendered woman.  It is nice to be accepted, but common now lol

[Carlita]

Lol...I am sorry but I do not understand that comment at all.  Why would you accept the inadequacies of insecure men if you had the support of women?  Why would anyone need the support of women to justify some man with low self esteem?  If a man is just a loser id just ditch him..I wouldnt need the affirmation of a woman to realize that.  Ive never needed the support of women to make myself feel whole or to make a qualified decision .  I mean yeah, I do have women in my life and yes, I have asked advice from time to time but I do not think I am beneath them as a gendered woman.  It is nice to be accepted, but common now lol

Sorry ... I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean that bad male behaviour is acceptable as a matter of principle. I was just suggesting - quite light-heartedly - that if I had to choose, I would rather put up with a few jerks, if it meant I could have true friendships with other women, than not have female friendships at all.

Nor do I need women to make me feel whole and help me make decisions. I would just love to have true, deep woman-to-woman friendships.

Obviously, in an ideal world, I want to be accepted by men and women alike, and all of us have the right to expect that we will be treated with respect by anyone we meet.

[Alainaluvsu]

Absolutely. My sister proudly calls me her sister and she always telling me details a girl would never tell their brother (feminine problems). My mother loves going on girly shopping sprees with me and all of a sudden is sending me pictures of her garden any chance she gets. Girls (what few cis female friends I have) are always telling me about their boyfriends, dragging me into womens bathrooms, "girl let me tell you!"-ing me (in a totally non-chalant way), telling me about THEIR feminine problems, trade clothes with me (not in a omg he he cute guy wants to dress up as a woman way), heck, half of my wardrobe comes from cis women and have never even seen me in them. My future sister in law keeps trying to get me interested in her ex husband, as if she forgets I'm trans and that he's a cop (i'm sure that'll work out well). Even my brother does stuff like helps me step down from steep areas and is very gentlemanly towards me.

I'm actually surprised how I'm treated completely as a cis girl who was born without ovaries. I would've figured I'd still be excluded from the girls club somehow.

However I'll just say that having cis gendered female friends is overrated. I used to really want some to have more of a feminine influence but in the end many my age don't like each other (including me - and I'm guilty of the same thing) because they're jealous of something or another. I have my few and they're hundreds of miles away. And I'd never thought I'd say this but  that's fine by me -  Except Tara and Heather! I miss those girls!

My trans sisters on the other hand... I love them with all my heart We have a bond no other people could ever have!

[Sarah Louise]

I would agree.  My answer is yes, I feel like the women I have worked with at different offices have totally accepted me.  I have been included in their inner circle.  Been invited to their shopping shows,  Stood at the sink in the restroom and talked about whatever.

I have never felt excluded.

[Alainaluvsu]

I will say there's a few girls that have NOT accepted me into the circle, but they don't matter because they were never my friends anyways. They're probably just scared I'll steal any male attention away from them they might get, anyways. Like I hinted at... women are too jealous / competitive and will say / do some underhanded BS to make themselves feel better (which I've been guilty of from time to time).

[Brooke777]

My answer is yes. I have a few cis female friends that have known me both as a man and now as a woman. When I told them I was trans, even though I presented male, they instantly started treating me like one of the girls. They fully accepted me without a doubt. 

I went full time at work on December 4th. I thought I would always be seen as a man by the women here. But, now they talk to me just like I am one of the girls. I am even included on topics such as periods, menopause, boyfriends/husbands, and sex talk. It is great!

[Carlita]

I will say there's a few girls that have NOT accepted me into the circle, but they don't matter because they were never my friends anyways. They're probably just scared I'll steal any male attention away from them they might get, anyways. Like I hinted at... women are too jealous / competitive and will say / do some underhanded BS to make themselves feel better (which I've been guilty of from time to time).

Oh, don't I know it! I have two sisters and two daughters. I've worked in strongly female office environments and observed the way that my wife and her circle still play the same games of who's in and who's out that girls start learning when they're in their very first years at kindergarten. Women are judgemental about all sorts of things that men don't even think about, and their judgements are incredibly personal ... In fact, that's one of the reasons I asked the question, because I know how women can be. And, yes, like you I have my bitchy side as well! 

On the other hand, women are also much more supportive, more thoughtful, more active in maintaining relationships and more fun to be around. So that's why it matters so much to me to be considered part of that female-only club ...

[suzifrommd]

How does passability affect acceptance? Will cis woman be just as likely to accept a Trans woman who doesn't completely pass as one who does?

[Sarah Louise]

I can't answer that one.

[Carlita]

How does passability affect acceptance? Will cis woman be just as likely to accept a Trans woman who doesn't completely pass as one who does?

I'm sure that visal passability counts for something, but my guess is that what you might call emotional passability - coming across like someone who's sympathetic, empathetic and genuinely wants to be a friend - matters even more.

[Stephe]

I can say yes, I am seen as "one of the girls".

In one case I was at a party for several hours and only one person there knew I was trans. At another event I wasn't at this person -slipped- that "Stephe used to be ______ husband" and the other women were like O.O. They said "You mean she used to be a guy?" They had no clue. I was later at an event these same women were at and I didn't notice them treating me any different, still girl talk conversations etc. So I really feel if they see woman, most will accept you as "one of the girls" even if they know you are trans. At least that has been my experience with -most- women.

Guys on the other hand can be extremely homophobic and if they know you are trans have a harder time seeing past this fact when they are in a group. I have discovered when you are one on one without other people around, they act differently. I guess they don't want anyone to think they are gay or something? Who knows what they are thinking.

The other thing I have found is many women are shallow and don't like any woman who are more attractive than they are. Don't confuse this with not "Being one of the girls".

[Brooke777]

How does passability affect acceptance? Will cis woman be just as likely to accept a Trans woman who doesn't completely pass as one who does?

I don't think I pass too well. So, I don't think passability has too large of an affect on it.

[Annah]

ive been stealth for 3 years now so those girls only conversations just happens when im around. And i agree the conversations are  a lot different when theyre only girls in the room

[Isabelle]

I'd say yes. It's normal/possible to be accepted as "one of the girls" I get invited to hen nights, shoe shopping, lunches all the typically "female" things that girls do together. A few of my girlfriends knew me when I was a boy, a few of them didn't. Same goes for guy friends. The vast majority treat me as one of the girls. Only two of my guy friends knew me as a boy and they do treat me a little different but I have very good friendships with them so I just don't care. I do think physical passability has an impact on it. It's horrible to say but I think it might be true. That's not to say people don't want to form friendships with visibly trans people, that's not what I mean at all.