Transolidarity

[Obfuskatie]

Hi everyone,
   I really wasn't sure where to post this, but I figured it was directed predominately toward MtF TS/TG individuals, so I'd post here and a moderator would move it somewhere better if necessary.
   I was particularly irked by an opinion article at The Transadvocate called Stealth Doesn't Help The Trans Community.  I would normally post the link to the article in question, but I don't want unintentionally violate the TOS links rule.  Google it instead if you want to see the source.  It is merely one of a many divisive articles that marginalize members of the transgender community.
   Essentially, I've become more aware about some transphobia within the LGBT community and it really bothers me.  And now I've accidentally come across a pretty frustrating debate of stealth vs. out.  I was bound to, since the topic interests me, as I have been and will continue to be stealth in some situations, while I will slowly come out to more people I trust.  I'm a long way off from marching or advocacy.  I can't handle being full-time, and I'd be risking backlash that would spill over to my family and a few close friends as well.  And so I spent a great deal of time thinking of a cogent counter argument that I posted as a comment there, but thought I might put here as well in case it might spawn a constructive discussion.


'Stealth' is being thrown around without any context, and I'm either misinterpreting the intent of the aspersion, or it is simply too vague.

At any point in the transition, a transgender person may opt to be stealth in public and out to those they are closest to and trust the most.  Even then, transpeople can be let down by their closest friends and family members who they wanted to have support them.  Asking someone to be mentally prepared and ready for rejection from close ties is hard, but expecting them to deal with the public rejection filled with strangers and acquaintances is silly.  That being said, every TS/TG person should have a support group to help them cope with the garbage they are going to have to endure for simply being themselves.  Logically, this support group would have to be privy to the knowledge that they are TS/TG to be beneficial.  Whether it consists of close friends, or fellow transpeople doesn't really matter because it serves to benefit the members of the group.

Many detractors I have come across have cited transitioning in stealth as either cowardice or lack of commitment.  There are many exigent circumstances that prevent some people from feeling comfortable immediately dressing in their chosen gender's clothing.  Safety is an easy fallback argument, but a stealth transperson could be gainfully employed or supported by bigoted family members / employers.  Eventually during transition, if the person still wants to remain stealth they have to go to a great deal of effort to do so even if they are able to pass when they begin RLE.

Post-transition in stealth can have many benefits if the transperson manages to pass as cisgendered.  Being outed as trans might cause problems for people they care about, and in some cases their family, friends, and loved ones could suffer because of indirect transphobia.  A transperson wanting to start a family with someone by adoption, surrogacy, frozen embryo/sperm in vitro fertilization, might not want to also risk virulent gender politics spilling over into their family discourse.  At least allow their children to become mature enough to fend for themselves before demanding their parents to sacrifice themselves on the altar of politics and advocacy.

I don't think it's selfish to not want to deal with social agendas, political awareness, and combat transphobia.  Isn't it also unfair to demand that a transperson forever dwell on the circumstances of their birth once they are passing and integrated into society?  When would they be allowed to put down the torch and try to find some normalcy?

Admittedly, I'm also throwing stones in glass houses.  As I am posting behind the veil of anonymity, my decanted arguments may not reach your Ivory Tower.  I use a sobriquet for privacy, and I have been transitioning in stealth for many reasons that have nothing to do with selfishness.  My circumstances preclude me from living as I would prefer, but life isn't nor has it ever been fair.

In my opinion it is selfish to censure transpeople who are actively working to improve the LGBT community who are not 'out.'  They are already working to help trans-issues and will probably be more effective working together with any transphobics among the LGBT community if they remain stealth.  Whether or not there are stealth transpeople in GLAAD or the HRC, they should live their lives as they see fit.

I can understand the exasperation that you feel toward our community's relative quiescence.  I've read several annual statistical reports and their analysis about our community / distribution and discrimination / violence toward us.  I can't decide if these reports make me more terrified, angry or sad.  Castigation isn't helpful for our cause or self-esteem as a community.  Brow beating is one of the least effective methods of altering opinions and moving hearts and minds.  Even dog trainers tend to use pattern recognition and positive reinforcement since it is more effective compared to negative reinforcement techniques.  And humans tend to be slightly more complicated and harder to please or convince than the domesticated dog. 

When you essentially insult every stealth transperson, you encourage a reflexively oppositional and defiant attitude toward your point.  Conversely, by instilling confidence and self-acceptance, you can urge transpeople to express themselves in positive ways in the community and to embrace the qualities that make us unique.  Mentors and role models are needed, but a cooperative group ethic is necessary as a firm sediment in order to build a successful movement for any progress for transrights to take hold.  Becoming divisive holds us back, no matter how good your intent.

I believe in advocating human rights and protecting our right to be who we are.  If there were any transpeople that were in the position to help advance transrights and human rights, of course I hope they would.  However they have to judge for themselves what they are willing to risk their anonymity for, and how much public scrutiny they are willing to face.  I hope that while even the LGBT community can be fractal and have discrimination, that we can stick together.  We should stop judging people because they don't live up to unwarranted expectations since we are all in this together; living separate lives with different situations and contexts.

How about we have one less group discriminating against us, and express some Transolidarity



Thanks for reading this far, I just wanted to share 

[Devlyn]

As a general rule, we prefer that the irksome divisive stuff posted on other sites is left on the other sites.  Hugs, Devlyn

[Joanna Dark]

As a general rule, we prefer that the irksome divisive stuff posted on other sites is left on the other sites.  Hugs, Devlyn

Many members, including myself, don't visit other boards. This is kind of an important topic. Though I do understand what you mean since some people are sooooo emotional. (I'm talking 'bout myself lol)


I am stealthy and will go even more stealthy when possible. I don't feel a need to be public. But I am not going to never tell anyone. I will tell people I trust. Some trans people seem to think this is a political movement and being stealth is the ultimate betrayal of it. I don't feel that way. I loathe trans politics. 

[BunnyBee]

This topic never ends well.  I've been on both sides of this fence, now I just want to stay out of it.  Let all the angry peeps fight it out is my stance.

[kathyk]

Like Jen said the topic does cause internal turmoil in the lgbt community. 

I'll just say staying within my family in a semi-stealth transition for about a year made it possible to have a smooth and seamless start to a wonderful RLE.   There's no way I could have been fully out, dealt with the marriage conflicts, and remained steadfast during the adventure.  What took a year may have taken two, five or ten.  But deep down inside every individual knows what's right, and understands when they're ready to come out. 

[missy1992]

My two cents:
Do as you please.

I, personally, am in stealth. None of my friends know, none of the people I have "hooked up" with know either. The few who do know have known me from before.
Why am I stealth? I don't want my gender identity to be brought into question at all times. I want to be judged on my own merits. I don't want someone (for example) to read an article I publish in a local (small) paper and have them say to their friends something like "hey, look what that transsexual wrote!" I also do not want to be the center of attention for my Y chromosome.

On the flip side, I also do not want to be in a position where my trans status gives me an unfair advantage. For example, I would not want a few LGB friends of mine to suddenly have a new level of respect for me because they now know I was assigned male at birth. I do not want them to think of me as some sort of grand figure who overcame such great odds. I just want to be a normal every day girl. Ok, maybe I want to be extraordinary but thats not the point of my post here.   

One thing is for certain though. When the time comes I will have to disclose. And I will do so with pride. Whether if I one day become the famous writer/presenter I strive to be, or when I meet that special someone whom I would wish to share my life with. Even when I need to go see a new family doctor. Those times, in my opinion, will be a good (great) time to disclose and let the world know how much of a wonderful person you are, what it took for you to get to where you are, and only then after you have something in your life to boast of other than being trans can you truly be an inspiration to others.

Just my $.02

[Joanna Dark]

I don't want someone (for example) to read an article I publish in a local (small) paper and have them say to their friends something like "hey, look what that transsexual wrote!" I also do not want to be the center of attention for my Y chromosome

Are you a professional writer/editor too? I loove being a journalist but it is bringing me such turmoil cause of my name. People think I'm a woman when talking to them and then boom, I publish under a male name. I don't know what to do. Just the other day I was talking to a rep from the City Council and he was talking to someone and was referring to me as he and the guy he was talking to obviously thought I was female by the confused look on his face. Any suggestions?

[missy1992]

Are you a professional writer/editor too? I loove being a journalist but it is bringing me such turmoil cause of my name. People think I'm a woman when talking to them and then boom, I publish under a male name. I don't know what to do. Just the other day I was talking to a rep from the City Council and he was talking to someone and was referring to me as he and the guy he was talking to obviously thought I was female by the confused look on his face. Any suggestions?

Joanna I am in a different place from you. I am only now starting to make a name for myself as a female and I can sympathize with you being trans and all. I have a lot of (good) work published under my male name. Writings that I am proud of. I don't know if I should include them in CVs because I do not want the situation to be awkward when looking for a job or applying into (another) university.

Off the top of my head what I could suggest is start over. Make a name for yourself under your female alias. I would imagine you have friends who would help you out here (in referring to you with the proper pronouns, getting you work etc).

Take my advice with a grain of salt. I have no idea how old you are or what your prior work looks like. If you are older and have a good name for yourself from before I can only suggest you "own your trans-ness."

[Joanna Dark]

I have no idea how old you are or what your prior work looks like. If you are older and have a good name for yourself from before I can only suggest you "own your trans-ness."

It depends what you consider old. I think I'm old. I'm 30. Okay I'm 31 now. ACK! I have been doing this for seven years. I was a women's magazine editor for five or six years and a product editor of a trade publication and now a freelance writer. I really just want to start over so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and applying to Penn and going to grad school to get my PhD in Modern Lit. Penn is all about diversity and seems to be very inclusive of trans women--and they will pay for my surgery!

When I worked for the women's mag the AD referred to me by a feminized version of my name which is only used by females and I should have said something like I want to be known by that name. I knew I was going to transition and was planning it then but things happened but I wish I did that. Ugh.

[missy1992]

It depends what you consider old. I think I'm old. I'm 30. Okay I'm 31 now. ACK! I have been doing this for seven years. I was a women's magazine editor for five or six years and a product editor of a trade publication and now a freelance writer. I really just want to start over so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and applying to Penn and going to grad school to get my PhD in Modern Lit. Penn is all about diversity and seems to be very inclusive of trans women--and they will pay for my surgery!

Get on it girl! Really, now would be the best time. And 31 is not old. Age is only a number!
Really, think of ways to "reinvent" yourself and pursuing further education would be key to that in my opinion. Might as well start a new now eh? As good a time as ever.

[Ltl89]

I never understood why someone would care one way or another about another persons personal life so deeply.  Stealth or not is irrelevant to me.  If you want to be out and proud for your whole life, go for it.  If you want to be stealth,  then do that.  It's not anyone's business besides the individual themselves.   I too bemoan when an in group tries ti define the correct lifestyle for someone within the community.   Different strokes for different folks.  I will choose stealth in the furure and it is my right as it is anyone else's to be out.

[Lorri Kat]

There is no 'right' or 'wronge' way to live YOUR life and each person should proceed as they deem best for themselves.   Some of us choose to be active and out in the fight for rights, that is a choice we make for ourselves with some doing it their whole lives while others participate for a period of time before settling into their life off the radar.  I can only speak for myself, I do know others feel the same though,  in that nothing is expected in return and all I hope for is that it may make someone else's life, transition, safer and easier.   


We are a diverse community in and of ourselves thusly as such all persons are equally important in it's makeup with none more or less valid then the rest.  Our solidarity to one another is that WE choose to live OUR life.

[suzifrommd]

There is no 'right' or 'wronge' way to live YOUR life and each person should proceed as they deem best for themselves.   

True words.

Nonetheless, I think a discussion of stealth vs. out living is very appropriate here, and I do hope it doesn't get locked because someone says something mean.

Susan's is a place where I benefit from reading the life experiences of those who've come before. It would be very useful to me to understand how it feels to live stealth from the point of view of someone who lives it (especially since I'm transitioning on my job, so the knowledge that I'm Trans will always be out there) and understanding life as an out transgender person would be useful too.

I've had a wee taste of stealth from the divorced/separated support group I belong to. I have told no one I'm transgender and let people draw their own conclusions. For the first few weeks I was able to maintain the charade. But it's hard (spelled i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e) to talk much about divorce without letting a gendered pronoun or two slip about my spouse. Once that had happened, other people started using those pronouns to refer to my spouse when talking to me, so the information spread quickly.

So I've copped to being queer, but have told no one the story of how I ended up married to a woman (for 20 years when same sex marriage in our state is only months old). Have some people figured it out? Is that the reason why many of the other women in the group freely pass phone numbers amongst themselves and basically ignore me?

As long as I'm stealth there, I have to not know and not care.

[BunnyBee]

True words.

Nonetheless, I think a discussion of stealth vs. out living is very appropriate here, and I do hope it doesn't get locked because someone says something mean.

Susan's is a place where I benefit from reading the life experiences of those who've come before. It would be very useful to me to understand how it feels to live stealth from the point of view of someone who lives it (especially since I'm transitioning on my job, so the knowledge that I'm Trans will always be out there) and understanding life as an out transgender person would be useful too.

I've had a wee taste of stealth from the divorced/separated support group I belong to. I have told no one I'm transgender and let people draw their own conclusions. For the first few weeks I was able to maintain the charade. But it's hard (spelled i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e) to talk much about divorce without letting a gendered pronoun or two slip about my spouse. Once that had happened, other people started using those pronouns to refer to my spouse when talking to me, so the information spread quickly.

So I've copped to being queer, but have told no one the story of how I ended up married to a woman (for 20 years when same sex marriage in our state is only months old). Have some people figured it out? Is that the reason why many of the other women in the group freely pass phone numbers amongst themselves and basically ignore me?

As long as I'm stealth there, I have to not know and not care.

It is a very appropriate topic.  It's something that everybody that transitions has to give some serious heart-searching thought to, and it is so so so helpful to get thoughts from others going through the same thing or, better yet, who have already been through it and have actual wisdom to pass on.  Sometimes, when you get lucky, you can get a few pages of helpful discussion before the angry people sweep in and make a fight out of it and it gets locked.  It is inevitable.  Please prove me wrong.  Seriously, please do.  I would be so proud of this community if it has matured past that ridiculousness.

[Lesley_Roberta]

The tricky problem between LGB and TG, is LGB is about sexuality and you can be LGor B and not need to worry about it as the physical level.

Being TG is often simply a physical level barrier and it's not something we can just casually not mention and not need to be concerned about being detected.

I'm all for LGB rights, but really, I am not one of them in that my problem is I was given the wrong form at birth and yippee friggin hurrah, and it's not about my sexual preferences. I can't casually hide my secret. It's not the same as concealing who you want in your bed.

That is fundamentally the hell of being TG. The only way a LGB person could really understand our lives is to be told 'look you will need to NOT have sex the way you would like it in order to maintain the illusion you are not LGor B'. I don't think they would be so happy if they were told they had to have sex that was the reverse of their preference and then go and say they liked it even when they didn't. Of course this comment lacks value for B people I suppose, they can enjoy ether, so not really relevant there.

The moment I walk out the door as me, I am basically out.
We don't get to hide. There is no hiding if you are TG unless you flat out deny yourself.
The only TG people enjoying stealth mode, are the ones blessed with the ability we all dream of.
Sorry for the LGB portion of LGBTG, but, I have no desire to take that success from my fellow TG persons.

If you are being utterly successful at passing, you stay passing, and you enjoy passing, and if anyone has a problem with it, too bad.
If the day ever comes, when I can pass utterly, I plan to do it.
And the only support the LGB portion of LGBTG that will be coming from me, will be me as a 'cis female' that is supportive of those persons.

My dream, is to be regarded as my little sister's older sister. I have lived a life of being told we look alike. I want it to be so much more than that.

[Obfuskatie]

The tricky problem between LGB and TG, is LGB is about sexuality and you can be LGor B and not need to worry about it as the physical level.

Being TG is often simply a physical level barrier and it's not something we can just casually not mention and not need to be concerned about being detected.

I'm all for LGB rights, but really, I am not one of them in that my problem is I was given the wrong form at birth and yippee friggin hurrah, and it's not about my sexual preferences. I can't casually hide my secret. It's not the same as concealing who you want in your bed.

That is fundamentally the hell of being TG. The only way a LGB person could really understand our lives is to be told 'look you will need to NOT have sex the way you would like it in order to maintain the illusion you are not LGor B'. I don't think they would be so happy if they were told they had to have sex that was the reverse of their preference and then go and say they liked it even when they didn't. Of course this comment lacks value for B people I suppose, they can enjoy ether, so not really relevant there.

The moment I walk out the door as me, I am basically out.
We don't get to hide. There is no hiding if you are TG unless you flat out deny yourself.
The only TG people enjoying stealth mode, are the ones blessed with the ability we all dream of.
Sorry for the LGB portion of LGBTG, but, I have no desire to take that success from my fellow TG persons.

If you are being utterly successful at passing, you stay passing, and you enjoy passing, and if anyone has a problem with it, too bad.
If the day ever comes, when I can pass utterly, I plan to do it.
And the only support the LGB portion of LGBTG that will be coming from me, will be me as a 'cis female' that is supportive of those persons.

My dream, is to be regarded as my little sister's older sister. I have lived a life of being told we look alike. I want it to be so much more than that.

I agree wholeheartedly, if I can at some point successfully blend in with cisgendered people while supporting the LGBT community, I'll be over the moon.  I wouldn't be willing to lie about who I am if someone asked me point blank, but I don't plan on advertising my trans status to the world.  Not everyone can be Harvey Milk.  Each of us can choose to what degree we are 'out,' but I believe we can be proud of simply being true to ourselves.

[JessicaH]

Hi
   I was particularly irked by an opinion article at The Transadvocate called Stealth Doesn't Help The Trans Community.

I read that article yesterday and felt the same way you did. It seems like most of the people with this attitude are the ones that have little chance if any to pass and want everyone else to suffer their lot.  I haven't noticed any trans activist that were "out and proud" that were passable. I may very well be wrong on that one but just going by personal observation.

[Dreams2014]

I sometimes wonder if a T is welcome in the LGBT community. I mean all the gains LBGT has made, many of those gains have benefited gays rather than transgenders. Transgender people still have many hurdles whilst in my own country (UK) it seems that to be gay is practically a non issue now.

[Jenna Marie]

Lesley : I am bisexual (as well as trans) and I have to say, it DOES feel like being closeted to pretend I'm only interested in one gender of partner. Interestingly, it's harder and feels more like lying to present as monosexual than as cis; I do live as a woman, I genuinely am one, and that's that. I'm a woman with a past that I don't make any particular effort to conceal, but my orientation is an "active," ongoing situation. Not mentioning that I transitioned is easy enough in discussions about which movie stars are hot and whatnot, but hiding that I liked the male and female lead both is trickier. So I guess my point is that being bi is actually a bigger deal to me in casual conversation these days.

(I don't really have a side in the stealth argument, which does tend to get ugly. I live sort of "half-out"; some people know because they knew me before and/or recognize me from things I published back then, I don't try to curb gossip or break links to my past, but I'm also not announcing it at every possible opportunity because I'm a shy person anyway and that feels seriously weird. I also don't really like the term "passing," because to me it suggests that I'm fooling people - I prefer to think of myself as "blending in." But then again, I'm so shy I'd rather blend into the crowd in ANY situation!)

[pebbles]

I do find the notion of Trans-solidarity unpleasant and inaccurate, In my transition I operated under the fundamental presumption that I have no allies and no rescue is coming if I fall then game over, because that's been my experience, the NHS ignored me, I lost family, Friends, was threatened with violence and was nearly made homeless. And I don't pretend that I had it the worst. Not by a mile.

While you can find supportive words or words of admonishment from other transgender individuals for the choices your make, ultimately you have to fight with whatever you've got to realize your victory. Stealth or Self-medication, whatever.
That the game princess, No rules, Play to win.

If it's the topic of stealth, I've been stealth under certain contexts for various periods of time, Again presumption of begin alone in a potentially hostile environment applies and this environment might well be your home or your workplace. If the option is available to you, Be stealth at least until you can trust the environment.

While I feel sympathy for other transpersons who don't have the choice it's still your life not theirs. If you trust the environment and the Stress of Stealth (Redacting your past is a pain) gets to you, Then tell them and be a positive role model for what might be there first knowing encounter with a transsexual.

But you don't owe anyone anything, You don't owe bigots an education, nor are you a martyr for "the collective"