Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

So I think I met a bigender girl...

Started by FalseHybridPrincess, March 09, 2014, 06:37:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FalseHybridPrincess

...and I need some advise

We met a couple of days ago , we have a common friend who had told me beforehand  that she has a friend with "gender issues" and has also told her that she has a mtf friend, so you know we kinda wanted to meet each other, so after we went out with a bunch of other people we returned to a friends house and I got the chance to talk with her about it...

She has something that seems similar with gender dysphoria , I mean she hates her body , she sees a stranger in the mirror...that kind of stuff...
I must have asked her a thousands questions until we reached something like a conclusion about what see wants to do...
She said that see feels like neither a male or female  , she thinks that a lot of people live inside her but not like the bipolar way...
and the perfect thing for her would be to live some time as a male , some as female , some androgynous and change between these whenever she feels like it...

Though I can feel she is kinda overwhelmed by this...she looks more feminine than the most feminine existence out there , she is really small and has the most cute high voice ever and looks amazingly beautiful...so yeah her female mode If I should call it is fine...but the male mode she d like to be able to have kinda isnt , and she kept talking about how she thinks she ll never pass and that she would hate having to "transform " or "wear  a mask" in order to live as a guy...
She said that she wish she was taller ,have deeper voice , but not in order to be a guy but in order to able to be a woman and   also be a guy whenever she feels like it...btw her preffered pronouns change according to the gender she present as.
Until now she hasnt tried to change her appearance towards anything than female , mostly cause she thinks any other appearnce will look bad...thats the impression I got at least...I tried really hard to  understand her cause even though we have a lot of things in common it was the first time I was hearing something like this...

Is she bigender?is she something else?
I thought she was compeletly unique until I did my research and found the term bigender which seems to kinda suit her...
From what she told me I think she will be in "the middle"  forever so I think it would be best to accept herself and start doing things rather than having this tormeting her...she is on antidepressants but as we all know this would just help with feeling sad but these thoughts wont go away...
I just wish to help her somehow , I already told her that if she ever wants to try going out as a guy me and her other friends will be there and she said that she ll definitely do it someday...

Man I thought that being trans was kinda tough,,,must be difficult to want to alter your presentation that often...
she also said something extremely interesting "and what am I going to do ?call my friend and be like ok today im a boy?"

Btw I must have confused her a bit , cause she confused me a bit too , im now thinking "maybe I ll want to go out as a boy sometimes when im done with transition" or im questioning how much I fit into the binary gender...yet Im not gonna question my female soul...or am I? well its definitely more female than male...*sigh* nevermind  :angel:

Any advise or education towards this subject will be appreciated
:angel:
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

sad panda

Uh, she might have DID. :S

I get how she feels though, a lot, and honestly who cares abt the labels you know?
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: sad panda on March 09, 2014, 07:12:59 AM
Uh, she might have DID. :S

I get how she feels though, a lot, and honestly who cares abt the labels you know?

Sure I dont really care about labels either , I think its just convenient if you can somehow use a single word to describe a condition or somethin,
I myself use labels just for this kind of convenience, they indeed not concern me that much at all...

btw thought I didnt get it...what do you mean she might have DID?
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

Mattia

I think the description of what they feel better suits the definition of genderfluid (somebody whose gender identity and presentation changes periodically?). I thought bigender means that they identify as female and male at the same time.
But I really don't know much about non binary people, and moreover they are just labels, they don't change the reality of feelings.
I guess it must be difficult to live such a double sense of identity.
To be honest, it is very unlikely that everybody will always respect the gender they will identify at the moment, especially considering, as you said, that their appearance is not androginous.
I think it might help them to have at least some friends who know about their gender issues and are willing to make the effort to respect the right pronouns depending on their current presentation. Then, maybe they could try to go by gender neutral pronouns? I guess this would be easier if they stay in college or in some very openminded environment.
About body disphoria, if they do not want to take hormones, they can try the obvious things, like short hair (they can be feminine too, for when they want to present as female), or exercising (having a lean and somewhat muscular figure can help), and buying the right clothes.
Maybe they will never pass 100% as male, but it may help with their self esteem?

TW: now I am going to say very obvious things!
Anyway, I believe people who feel hundred percent male or female or exactly inbetween are rare. The great majority has something of both genders in themselves. In the end it is all about finding the appearance and the presentation that makes you feel more comfortable and happy, without worrying too much about passing or other people's opinion.
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: Mattia on March 09, 2014, 08:12:31 AM
I think the description of what they feel better suits the definition of genderfluid (somebody whose gender identity and presentation changes periodically?). I thought bigender means that they identify as female and male at the same time.
But I really don't know much about non binary people, and moreover they are just labels, they don't change the reality of feelings.
I guess it must be difficult to live such a double sense of identity.
To be honest, it is very unlikely that everybody will always respect the gender they will identify at the moment, especially considering, as you said, that their appearance is not androginous.
I think it might help them to have at least some friends who know about their gender issues and are willing to make the effort to respect the right pronouns depending on their current presentation. Then, maybe they could try to go by gender neutral pronouns? I guess this would be easier if they stay in college or in some very openminded environment.
About body disphoria, if they do not want to take hormones, they can try the obvious things, like short hair (they can be feminine too, for when they want to present as female), or exercising (having a lean and somewhat muscular figure can help), and buying the right clothes.
Maybe they will never pass 100% as male, but it may help with their self esteem?

TW: now I am going to say very obvious things!
Anyway, I believe people who feel hundred percent male or female or exactly inbetween are rare. The great majority has something of both genders in themselves. In the end it is all about finding the appearance and the presentation that makes you feel more comfortable and happy, without worrying too much about passing or other people's opinion.

hhhm maybe you right , genderfluid  maybe describes her better...what caught my attention is this though, she doesnt just want to be one time a boy one a girl she wants to kinda be a different boy and girl each time appearance wise...does that even means anything?
I myself have never actually tried to learn about terms like these and yeah it gets confusing with all these labels :/

Its ok though , she has accepting friends she is in college, the only obstacle is her worriers kinda...
She doesnt want to change her appearance firstly cause she thinks it wont look good and secondly cause she ll eventually want to look female again...
So im guessing that in order to pull something like this off she ll be needing a pro make over every time , yet she doesnt want to feel like having to transform into something...
there are too many worries...

btw in greece we dont have neutral pronouns , but thats not an issue , she like the females when she is female and the males when hes male...

its too complicated if you ask me :(
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

Mattia

I didn't understand the fact about being different boys and girls everytime. Yeah, this makes everything even more complicated. I don't want to sound pessimistic but I think it may be very difficult to have people accept and understand it.
Very complicated.

Anyway, I am sorry, I thought you were english! I didn't know you were from greece (It's one of the country I loved more, btw). I am a fellow european and i don't have neutral pronouns either here. I guess anglophone nonbinary folks have it easier on that account.
  •  

sad panda

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 09, 2014, 07:22:46 AM
Sure I dont really care about labels either , I think its just convenient if you can somehow use a single word to describe a condition or somethin,
I myself use labels just for this kind of convenience, they indeed not concern me that much at all...

btw thought I didnt get it...what do you mean she might have DID?

Dissociative identity disorder, it's when a person who suffered trauma splits into different personalities called alters that come out when they can't cope with things, and they can be different genders, types of people, behaviors and stuff.
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: Mattia on March 09, 2014, 09:08:36 AM
I didn't understand the fact about being different boys and girls everytime. Yeah, this makes everything even more complicated. I don't want to sound pessimistic but I think it may be very difficult to have people accept and understand it.
Very complicated.

Anyway, I am sorry, I thought you were english! I didn't know you were from greece (It's one of the country I loved more, btw). I am a fellow european and i don't have neutral pronouns either here. I guess anglophone nonbinary folks have it easier on that account.

its complicated and difficult :(
makes me sad cause she is really an amazing person...

Strangers may not understand but since she has understanding friends and family who are willing to help her Im sure somehow it will work out  :) I only recently met her but I told her she can count me in too  :)

Anyway thanks for your posts :)
Yeah I guess not wanting neither male or female pronouns but have nothing else is kinda tough...
hhhhm actually...there is a way at least in greek to avoid gender specific pronouns completely...I used to do it for some time actually...


Quote from: sad panda on March 09, 2014, 09:21:28 AM
Dissociative identity disorder, it's when a person who suffered trauma splits into different personalities called alters that come out when they can't cope with things, and they can be different genders, types of people, behaviors and stuff.

I doubt this cause she didnt show any signs of her personality changes,,,her personality is kinda of a mix , she acts both masculine and feminine at the same time kinda...

She did said that she feels like she has a lot of people inside her but I believe she means it kinda different,,, maybe it has to do with gender expression...

man I fail to understand the complexity of this...
if she had DID im sure there would be signs or her friend would have told me already in order to not get surprised if something happens...

I believe that her soul if you wanna call it like that is just complicated and different , maybe its a soul that can and wants to act a lot different ways?...

I ll try to hang out with her more and see...
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

Eva Marie

Quote from: FalsePrincess on March 09, 2014, 09:32:15 AM
she acts both masculine and feminine at the same time kinda...

She sounds more on the genderfluid/androgyne side to me. Bigender is defined as:

"Bigender (bi+gender) is a gender identification which manifests itself as a tendency to move between masculine and feminine gender-typed behavior depending on context, expressing a distinctly male persona and a distinctly female persona."

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Bigender

Bigender people call that "flipping" between two genders. Some flip as often as several times a minute, others flip less often, up to and including going for months on end in one gender. I experienced the feeling of having two genders and flipping between them so thought that I was bigender, but it turns out after therapy that my gender situation ran a bit deeper than that.

There is a member here that is well versed in all things DID and the effects that are caused by it, and if they see this thread then I'm sure that they will be along to add comments about it.

It is very complicated, and it takes a special person to spend the time to get to know a person like this.
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: Eva Marie on March 09, 2014, 10:01:00 AM
She sounds more on the genderfluid/androgyne side to me. Bigender is defined as:

"Bigender (bi+gender) is a gender identification which manifests itself as a tendency to move between masculine and feminine gender-typed behavior depending on context, expressing a distinctly male persona and a distinctly female persona."

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Bigender

Bigender people call that "flipping" between two genders. Some flip as often as several times a minute, others flip less often, up to and including going for months on end in one gender. I experienced the feeling of having two genders and flipping between them so thought that I was bigender, but it turns out after therapy that my gender issues ran a bit deeper than that.

There is a member here that is well versed in all things DID and the effects that are caused by it, and if they see this thread then I'm sure that they will be along to add comments about it.

It is very complicated, and it takes a special person to spend the time to get to know a person like this.

But thats what she wants to do isnt it?
Fliping between male and female...
that definition you posted sounds exactly like her , yet so does the genderfluid definition ...
hhhm wait Im thinking something here...and I dont know if this will lead anywhere but whatever...

so bigender is about two genders? but for her even if she switches from female to male  there might be other non binary presentations , right?the way I see it seems like,,,she would like to do more non binary things , not just male and female ...so she cant be bigender
I dont understand but is it possible to have both male and female "personas" and also others? like androgynous or other genders completely? 
she said she doesnt feel either like a male or female yet she wishes to go from one to another and sometimes not even completely?
what is this? is she every possible gender out there? or none and just wants to find her path in life by experimenting?
and the thing that she said that she feels that she has multiple persons inside her ( but not like DID she kinda tried to make that clear)makes things even more complicated :(

I thought that my experience with gender stuff might be able to  make somethings clear but everything becomes more and more complicated...
though I dont know guys and girls from the moment I first met her I cant stop thinking about her , almost forgeting my own dysphoria...

:(

I wonder if what I said made any sense :/

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 09, 2014, 10:07:30 AM
And I would add that description rather fits someone genderfluid than androgyne.

thats what I think too , but she has also said that she d like an androgynous presentation too
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

Ltl89

She sounds like she may be bigender or gender fluid, but I'm not the best at understanding non-binary stuff.  In any case, it sounds like she is still in the process of finding herself and figuring out what she wants.  That may take more time and experimentation.  All that you as a friend can do is lend an ear and be their for her.  It's something that has to come from within and at the moment it sounds like she is still finding what that is.
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: learningtolive on March 09, 2014, 10:30:53 AM
She sounds like she may be bigender or gender fluid, but I'm not the best at understanding non-binary stuff.  In any case, it sounds like she is still in the process of finding herself and figuring out what she wants.  That may take more time and experimentation.  All that you as a friend can do is lend an ear and be their for her.  It's something that has to come from within and at the moment it sounds like she is still finding what that is.

Seems like it ,,, cause when I asked her what are you she said I dont know...
she has all these thoughts that need to...become more clear I guess...
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 09, 2014, 11:11:03 AM
Which is not the same as being androgyne :) Please, trust me in this, I know :).

hhhm yeah actually , I understand it...you re right
I know that she is not androgyne thats for sure...
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Can you explain to me what is the difference between bigender  and genderfluid people please?
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

Danielle Emmalee

Sounds like polygender.  It's like bigender but more than 2.  Check out bigender.net if you want more info on bigender.  There's a lot and like transgender there's as many ways to call yourself bigender as there are people who are bigender.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

Danielle Emmalee

I'm on my phone so don't feel like typing a whole lot but I identify as polygender so if you have any questions about it, I can give you my perspective on it.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
Discord, we won't take it anymore
So take your tyranny away!
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

Quote from: Caysee Danielle on March 09, 2014, 11:32:53 AM
I'm on my phone so don't feel like typing a whole lot but I identify as polygender so if you have any questions about it, I can give you my perspective on it.

Yes when you have the time please...

Actually I ve been thinking about it just now, I ve been thinking that my friend might have many genders inside her,,,genders we "know" ,gender that we dont know, binary and non binary ,,,etc...

I obvisiously just thought about it , if you explain to me maybe I ll able to understand it more...
So yeah please if you can.

http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

ativan

LOL! What fun it is to read such speculation about non-binaries!

'I guess it must be difficult to live such a double sense of identity'.

I can't imagine what it must feel like to be so one dimensional about ones gender...
I mean that in a most nice way, I just don't understand that part of it.

A simplistic way to look at it:
It's like having a bunch on coins that almost all of them have the same image on both sides.
About half of them have a female image, the other half have a male image.
Then there are those who have two different images on each side. Non-binary.
Bigender for the most part could be seen as simply turning that coin every so often.
You have a distinct gender that changes from one binary to another.
But for so many others, it is as if that coin is on it's edge and is spinning at various speeds.
At times, you can easily distinguish one side or the other, at other times it's spinning to fast to be able to see both sides distinctly.
But the more you are able to concentrate on that spin, the easier it becomes to somewhat distinguish the two sides.
For some, the spin is too fast to be able to see anything but a blurred look at gender.
That's understandable.
If you aren't used to the idea of a gender coin having two sides, especially if you can't really understand one of the sides,
it must make that vision of gender all that much harder to see, yet still understand that it is there.

But much of this is perspective, from the coins point of view, you are all moving past them. They are static.
To see this passing by, a majority of them one gender or the other,
can make it seem like you have to have something similar to be a part of that flow going past you.
Dysphoria. That can be taken care of with talk therapy and in quite a few cases it seems, Low Dose HRT.

The idea is so foreign that you have to introduce a rare disorder that stems from trauma?
Come on,... please don't do the 'it must be some kind of mental disorder' explanation.
You don't like yourself explained away by cisgender people when they do that to you, do you?

DID isn't even remotely what it is, so stop it. Accept instead something on the order of what I explained above.
There are a lot of ways to express this, this is just one way. There many others.
The more you ask, the more you question non-binary gender, the more answers that you have that only create still more questions.
'What about, what if, well then it must be like, I'm confused and am at a loss of what to say so I think I'l ask a confusing question....'

Simple acceptance and taking the time to stand back and just learn, without all of these questions,
will go much farther in your understanding of what it is like to be non-binary.
I don't mean this in a harsh way, it's just something that I know from being non-binary for over 60 yrs.
All of which I was aware that I was different. It took until I ran across some terminology to realize how little is actually known.
This is because much of that is speculation from a one dimensional point of view.
Again, not harsh, but true.
It's understandable the difficulty in describing something that you can't really see because it is spinning in front of you.

The truth is, we are just another coin, the same as all of you.
We are not a mental disorder of split personalities. I could make a few speculations about people with DID.
But I won't, instead I just try to accept and listen instead of playing psychoanalyst.
Non-binary people don't look at binary in this kind of way. Because your the norm? No.
Because you are a kind of novelty from our perspective, all of you just passing by.
It's hard to distinguish one of you from the other when you pass by so fast...

Tell me again about what differentiates a male from a female, again.
The definitions become very blurred at some point, they become less an less distinguishable.
You just become coins. More importantly, you are just coins. Not that much different from us,
Which is just how it feels, once the binary induced dysphoria is gone.
Yep, it's true, That's where it stems from, it's the feeling from binaries that we are some kind of disorder.
Even among binaries, the confusion for some, of just which of the binary genders you are is the same thing.
Made to feel abnormal, therefore,... you have a mental disorder. It's not.
It's just called dysphoria and it comes from a majority of people failing to accept your Self.

I don't pretend to understand what it is to be binary, yet it's all around me, the gender world description comes from it.
But I don't need to understand it, I just accept it. I'm normal from my perspective, too.
It's binaries that are a blurry gender passing by. Once in a while, I do get a good look at it.
It's amazingly simplistic. Just one thing, out of so many possibilities.
It must be hard to go through life as only one version of gender?
It's not for you, your world and most everyone's is based on a binary vision of gender.
But more and more are finding that the classical version of male and female breaks down very easily.

It's a matter of perspective for all of us coins. It just depends on your viewpoint.
Accept that some of us quite simply have two different sides and we get to spin at whatever speed we like, to be comfortable.
Even if it means varying that speed, even stopping on edge for moments in time.
We decide how we spin, not the accepted idea of gender as it is envisioned by so many.
We do it to be comfortable for ourselves, not to make others feel comfortable because of their perspective.
It is multidimensional, and I can't imagine what it must be like to have a gender that is just one sided.
It's just as abnormal, yet you're just another coin, so in the bigger perspective, it really doesn't matter.
Just accepting a non-binary is the first step in understanding something you may never fully comprehend.
For a lot of people with gender dysphoria, that's the first step in fixing it.
When you can't understand others gender(s), it's dysphoria.
For many binaries, they don't get that they have this very same dysphoria about non-binaries simply because it seems normal to you.
Skip that part of it, learn to understand it, it doesn't matter. Do it one way or another.
That part of your life will become better in time. It does get better.
You've heard that so many times, and it does, but it also means broadening your perspective a little at a time.

Your understanding of non-binary gender will become so much easier to understand once your dysphoria is gone, also.
I look forward to the day you do, you all seem like such nice people. You just have this little quirk about what gender is.
You become just as adorable as the next person once you get past the damaging effect that dysphoria has on people.
Really, it's true. You're a coin, just like us.
Ativan
  •  

FalseHybridPrincess

@Ativan Prescribed

Hhhhm thanks for this post,,,advise me a bit if you can...

Im trying to understand mostly because we arent really that different,,,I can imagine that  a normal cis person might  be unable to understand something like this...But I am a trans girl, just like you I had to do similar inner searching and I had to question pretty much anything that has to do with gender and also had similar pain coming from dysphoria,,,thats why I believe Im understanding this better , even if Im binary...
yet I somehow dont feel 100% binary I feel that even though my soul is female I could go between genders at will , yet my soul feels female...so I dont reaally now what I am,,,
Is this what you meant by saying that is fun to read speaculations about non binaries?
Because everyones coin is different? everyone spins it at different pace? or roll it from the edges?
Does being non binary means that you feel unique in comparison to other non binaries?do you even get to create you own gender if you like?
can everyone be different like that?

I have to admit I feel fascinated reading and learning about this stuff...
Personally for me acceptance isnt something I consider,,,I accept anything , literally...
Exactly because I understand that everyone non binary or binary is different, yet it seems that I have never imagined the extend of this diversity...
I think its truly amazing to be non binary and follow your own path...meh its actually amazing to follow your own path no matter what you are..

All I know about myself now is that I was born with a male body while my souls is female...I wonder if I ll get to know even more about this matter...

One more question pls , do non op trans people considered non binary?
http://falsehybridprincess.tumblr.com/
Follow me and I ll do your dishes.

Also lets be friends on fb :D
  •  

Virginia

(DID survivor of childhood trauma with male and female alters chiming in)

It is extremely common, almost the norm, for people suffering from DID to have male and female alters. Male alters give female trauma victims the strength they do not believe themselves to possess as women. Female alters give men a way to justify in their minds the horror of having been molested and a way to resolve the resulting sexual confusion. The leaps in understanding of trauma/PTSD over the last few decades have shown that dissociative identity disorder/multiple personality disorder (DID/MPD) is much more common than it was once believed to be.

Quote from: FalsePrincessshe didnt show any signs of her personality changes,,,her personality is kinda of a mix , she acts both masculine and feminine at the same time kinda...
Dissociated personalities are not always completely discrete and the switch between them can occur many times in a single conversation. Alters often "pass" for each other and depending on their level of coconsciousness, their personalities can "bleedthrough" regardless of who is fronting.

Quote from: FalsePrincess
if she had DID im sure there would be signs or her friend would have told me already in order to not get surprised if something happens...
Not really. DID is one of the hardest psychological conditions to diagnose. Firstly because it has no unique symptoms. All of the person's behavior can be explained in much more common terms. Secondly because the condition is extremely well hidden; the person's life depended on it.

I was a healthy multiplicity, had a successful career, a wonderful marriage and a happy life. My System worked so well I wasn't even aware there were FOUR other alters who shared my body until an external event triggered decomposition of my System when I was 48. When my female alter became self-conscious and began to battle for control of the body I was diagnosed as transsexual with gender dysphoria. It took THREE years of therapy for my female alter and I to reach a level of peace before the time/memory loss and flashback characteristic of DID began to manifest.

There are many reasons a person may feel the need to express themself as more than one gender. The standard medical protocol for gender dysphoria requires a screening level of therapy to make sure the underlying cause is gender before any sort of gender transition is recommended. As this girl is currently taking antidepressants, she is likely dealing with a variety of conditions that may or may not include being transgender.


~VA (pronounced Vee- Aye, the abbreviation for the State of Virginia where I live)
  •