Do I Look, or Could I Pass, as Female? 3.0

[Jade_404]

Your upper body is androgynous but not exactly male. Did you used to do drugs? eating disorder?  I hope neither.

I never did drugs except a little weed once in a while. No eating disorder. I got bitten by a tick and contracted Lymes disease. Was very sick for a few years. Lost 30 pounds of muscle mass I had spent years to build up to appear more male. I got neurological damage as well. I may have an intersex condition too. I will be undergoing tests soon to know for sure.  I always have been mistaken for a girl... used to hate it, now I want to embrace it.

[Jade_404]

While brutal honesty is on the table-how about me, going my my profile pic? What more can I do?  I'm two years into hormones right now, and surgery is NOT on the table-I'm an artist, and there is not going to be any money in my future once I graduate.  And PLEASE, Don't tell me I do pass, because I know for a fact that I don't.  Frankly, while insensitivity might be hurtful, this thread has a HUGE amount of sugar coating.  I don't need afirmation folks, I need honesty and advice as to how I can fix it.  Thanks!

Honestly I think you look cute... from just that picture I would guess female. My computer program does not even see a face in that image, which is kinda cool tbh.

Jade

[butterflies]

I HATE this device I'm using the forum on. I HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT.
sorry haha..had to get that out..


I wrote a really long reply.also sorry about the delay I
. I was eating lunch. Thai herbal soup, chicken
and and rice with hoi sin sauce and chili sauce. Yummy.

I wrote a really long reply. It's gone...
...
I'll just give you the highlights.

Your \_/ jaw is really masculine. if you can't shell out the 5-6 grand to fix it (if it's just the chin you might get away with 4 but idk) other than surgery, makeup contouring. You're an artist, you should know how to make angular round by blending light and shadow... Try with lighter and darker makeup powder, bronzer and even the right shade of matte blush. Your eyes
are small and masculine edit: no they're not! Their shape is actually nice! But your dark under eyes and your eyebrows first gave me that impression. I had to look again!. Just thinning your eyebrows and/or using a makeup/eyeliner pen on them won't make them feminine. There are tutorials online for doing your eyeshadow and eye brows according to the shape and angle of your eyes.find them. Bigger eyes, liquid eyeliner, white eyeshadow and in your case, fake lashes are your new best friends.blend, blend, blend. All good makeup has soft transitions. there are many tutorials for bigger eyes. Under eyes... light eyeshadow, other wise you'll look old and tired and masculine too. It's not pretty. Watch out for putting makeup powder under your eyes. Use it very lightly. Otherwise the eyeshadow cakes and actually enhances the wrinkles.
The hairstyle is feminine but unless you're a50yo divorced french woman living in her drab apartment where she never turns on the lightsand chain smokes listening to edith piaf, you shouldn't use it. The color makes it worse. The lipsticks screams... I'm sorry, no, writing it here would be too offensive.
Don't ever use that lipstick.ever.

While brutal honesty is on the table-how about me, going my my profile pic? What more can I do?  I'm two years into hormones right now, and surgery is NOT on the table-I'm an artist, and there is not going to be any money in my future once I graduate.  And PLEASE, Don't tell me I do pass, because I know for a fact that I don't.  Frankly, while insensitivity might be hurtful, this thread has a HUGE amount of sugar coating.  I don't need afirmation folks, I need honesty and advice as to how I can fix it.  Thanks!

Bb

[butterflies]

I never did drugs except a little weed once in a while. No eating disorder. I got bitten by a tick and contracted Lymes disease. Was very sick for a few years. Lost 30 pounds of muscle mass I had spent years to build up to appear more male. I got neurological damage as well. I may have an intersex condition too. I will be undergoing tests soon to know for sure.  I always have been mistaken for a girl... used to hate it, now I want to embrace it.

Yeah,I just noticed you looked sick but I didn't know for what reason so I guessed the common ones. That sounds horrible, I'm so sorry
. Are you in pain often? I hope they can give you something that will help...

[androgynouspainter26]

Yup.  I mean, I was only wearing partial makeup that day (I usually just can't find time to contour) and besides-I DO know how to contour, but under different lighting you know how fake it can look.  As for the brows, they are pretty much as high as they can go.  Not much more to do there.  Sometimes I thin them out a bit more and then apply liner on the upper edges.  Usually works wonders. 

Also.  The hair?  I'd like you to do better with curls this tight.  I would like to grow it out, but that would mean letting it just friz out into a bubble on the sides.  Reading as male for a few years in the process.  Hey, if there was an easier fix, I'd take it, but since I'm not prepaired to face the embarrassment of wearing wigs in front of everyone for four years or so when my hair finally begins to obey the laws of gravity, it stays.   Who knows?  I might fix it eventually.  But I like to color, personally.  What do you recommend I do about it?  RIght now it's too short for androgynous (which I was rocking for a while) and too long for anything else.  So...not sure how to proceed.

And honestly, I'm beginning to question your taste!  Just curious-what do YOU take issue with about my lipstick?  I've actually gotten a lot of compliments on it before., of course I never wear it outside of queer circles/  Hey, asking for honest input, but...well, I like the lipstick.  The hair color too, albiet not this short.

[butterflies]

Yup.  I mean, I was only wearing partial makeup that day (I usually just can't find time to contour) and besides-I DO know how to contour, but under different lighting you know how fake it can look.  As for the brows, they are pretty much as high as they can go.  Not much more to do there.  Sometimes I thin them out a bit more and then apply liner on the upper edges.  Usually works wonders. 

Also.  The hair?  I'd like you to do better with curls this tight.  I would like to grow it out, but that would mean letting it just friz out into a bubble on the sides.  Reading as male for a few years in the process.  Hey, if there was an easier fix, I'd take it, but since I'm not prepaired to face the embarrassment of wearing wigs in front of everyone for four years or so when my hair finally begins to obey the laws of gravity, it stays.   Who knows?  I might fix it eventually.  But I like to color, personally.  What do YOU recommend I do?

And honestly, I'm beginning to question your taste!  Just curious-what do YOU take issue with about my lipstick?  I've actually gotten a lot of compliments on it before.  Hey, asking for honest input, but...well, I like the lipstick.  The hair color too, albiet not this short.

I don't question the taste of anyone not finding that lipstick hideous,, I outright  declare their taste invalid 😀 sorry, not sorry. If you want to look like a really bad drag queen, go ahead, use it. How many of the people who complimented it were heterosexual? You know there's a reason I ask... I edited my original post about your eyes. They're actually not that bad with the right makeup,I think.

The hair color is fine. I just said it makes that hairstyle look worse.
I have a blower with a flat nozzle and astraightening iron. I only have light waves but when I want to style my hair, I often use both. I can use 30-45 min on my hair alone. I try to do it in 15 though... I know people with hair like yours who spend HOURS every day straightening it.
What would I do? I woulddo what I always do: take the most painful, least convenient route possible, because that's usually the route to where I actually want to be, not where I settle to be.
it's day 2, 39 hours after my surgery. I'm wearing full makeup and got told by a Thainurse i looked beautiful. When I asked her in Thai if she was just saying that, she said no, she really meant it. And I believe her.
What do you think I would do?
Oh, just a side note: I woke up to shave at 5 and do my makeup before they removed my drains. It was really hard to move with the drains. now it's a lot easier to move
Oh,I had fever too. I still managed all that. You think I'm harsh to you but not to myself? Guess again 😀

[Jade_404]

Yeah,I just noticed you looked sick but I didn't know for what reason so I guessed the common ones. That sounds horrible, I'm so sorry
. Are you in pain often? I hope they can give you something that will help...

Yeah I get muscle cramps a bunch, also my bones itch and ache.  But yeah its like inside my bones it itches.. can't scratch it. Like something is crawling around on my nerves. Technically there is, bacterium. I have to do antibiotics if it flares up too bad and I do take pain meds sometimes but I don't like being dependent on them so I rough thru it a lot. Doctors said the itch is actually acute pain in my bones / joints. Sometimes I twitch randomly....

I have been much better this past year or so and been eating better and taking care of myself. I am putting on weight but now it is more feminine like in my hips,butt and I even have little breasts developing. I was freaked out at first but now I am accepting it. I tried working out like I did in my 20s to regain a manly build. I just can't handle those type of bulking workouts anymore, too old and my energy is low. The female side of me is stronger and taking over, I have hid her for so long. I think that HRT, some E will probably do wonders for me. Maybe give me energy back, maybe give me more healthy weight.. not sure what it can do to help the face, hehe.

[androgynouspainter26]

Yeah...I'm not heterosexual.  So.  There's that.  Is there a problem?

My hair does NOT straighten, hahaha!  I tried blow drying for about a year, I titled the result "lion's mane of death".  I admire your friends who hae the hours a day needed to straighten their hair, but I'm wayyyy to busy for that.  Now, not to be a bit critical...but makeup two days post op?  Seems a bit...I don't know.  I'd probably use that time to brush up on my chekov, but hey, to each her own.  I'm starting to think that while I might not take this seriously enough, you take this TOO seriously. 

[Damara]

What are your thoughts? I'm Pre-hrt  🙁 blood work next month so hopefully not too much longer. No makeup other then some eyeliner. Still need more laser to get rid of that stupid chin hair that just wont die already! got a cheap wig on but I'm liking the length of it. Any advice or tips to look more feminine? I mess around with makeup on the weekends but I don't really know what I'm doing, my beard always shows through and I feel like I just look like crap, or I start getting pimples after wearing it for a day, it's just a mess. I kind of don't want to bother with it till after I start hrt.

You're going to be stunning after HRT. 😀 And the electro of course. 🙂

[butterflies]

Yup.  I mean, I was only wearing partial makeup that day (I usually just can't find time to contour) and besides-I DO know how to contour, but under different lighting you know how fake it can look.  As for the brows, they are pretty much as high as they can go.  Not much more to do there.  Sometimes I thin them out a bit more and then apply liner on the upper edges. 

You shouldn't make them high. High isn't feminine, thin isn't feminine. It's all about the SHAPE..most girls here have eyebrows almost 1" thick. I'm not even kidding. It's all about the shape 🙂

[butterflies]

Yeah I get muscle cramps a bunch, also my bones itch and ache.  But yeah its like inside my bones it itches.. can't scratch it. Like something is crawling around on my nerves. Technically there is, bacterium. I have to do antibiotics if it flares up too bad and I do take pain meds sometimes but I don't like being dependent on them so I rough thru it a lot. Doctors said the itch is actually acute pain in my bones / joints. Sometimes I twitch randomly....

I have been much better this past year or so and been eating better and taking care of myself. I am putting on weight but now it is more feminine like in my hips,butt and I even have little breasts developing. I was freaked out at first but now I am accepting it. I tried working out like I did in my 20s to regain a manly build. I just can't handle those type of bulking workouts anymore, too old and my energy is low. The female side of me is stronger and taking over, I have hid her for so long. I think that HRT, some E will probably do wonders for me. Maybe give me energy back, maybe give me more healthy weight.. not sure what it can do to help the face, hehe.

I'm so sorry.you're really strong for dealing with that!

[butterflies]

Yeah...I'm not heterosexual.  So.  There's that.  Is there a problem?

My hair does NOT straighten, hahaha!  I tried blow drying for about a year, I titled the result "lion's mane of death".  I admire your friends who hae the hours a day needed to straighten their hair, but I'm wayyyy to busy for that.  Now, not to be a bit critical...but makeup two days post op?  Seems a bit...I don't know.  I'd probably use that time to brush up on my chekov, but hey, to each her own.  I'm starting to think that while I might not take this seriously enough, you take this TOO seriously.

While I look for a man and am extremely comfortable with very traditional gender roles, I'm not heterosexual either. So there's that. You asked for my opinion, you got it. There's nothing more to say. If you want to test my opinion, go wear that lipstick somewhere where there are no queers, gays or anything. It will be a quick reality check. It's not about the sexuality,really. It's tabout this "be as weird as you can and encourage others to do the same" that I have a huge problem with. It won't end well.  That's why I often prefer time with straight people. They're less tolerant...but more tolerable
Like I said, I don't do things half way. Otherwise I'd only get. .half way there.
Anyway,I really needed to feel pretty. I looked so bad on day 1...

[androgynouspainter26]

Can't deal with a bit of weird?  Ohhhh, honey...I feel bad for you!  Now I'm out of here before this turns into a flame war, because frankly your priorities scare me a bit.  And if passing 100% means doing this to myself, I'm not ready to make that commitment.  Enjoy your fancy new vagina!

[BreezyB]

It's tabout this "be as weird as you can and encourage others to do the same"

Hmm, I'm not sure about your approach butterflies. I 110% support AndrogynousPainter, looks great to me, and I think the look is working great also. And you haven't seen anything if you think a bit of lipstick is taboo. I mean really? Maybe your some perfect cis female who really dislikes the concept of transgender. Am I getting warm? Please try to respect other people a little more, being liked is one thing, but being a pain in the ass is another. There's enough criticism outside of this forum, I'm not sure we need any more in here. Susans is a place we all show respect to each other, and accept each other for the gender diversity we all stand for. Just sayin...

Ok, my rant is now over....

[BreezyB]

Hey butterflies, I'm curious about mine. 

Wow Jamie, your looking great, really. Just a nice overall natural look, love it!

[Anna-Maria]

Anyone read through all of her postings made by our dear friend butterflies?

No?

I did. I read all of them and she´s here for only one purpose. Troublemaking. While not showing off a slice of her own, she concentrates on people whom she assumes to be either "weak" or "unstable" or "desperate" call it as you will. And she likes to have her game with them.

In other words, I call her a Troll and she should be ignored.

One personal word for you butterflies: Picking on people who have to face hard times or still being in a tough struggle is so low, I can´t find any appropriate term for this. You should feel ashamed of your crippled character.

[V M]

Hi friends 

The situation has been handled

Let's relax a bit, get back on topic and avoid posting anything that could be construed as a personal attack

Thank you

V M

[belfast girl]

Got new glasses, and I've been sort of practicing a bit with makeup.




Still need to get hair/eyebrows done - I'm using cover-up over my facial hair then foundation over that and it seems to be working for now, I guess since I really don't have a lot anyway. I really like the glasses, but I'm not convinced they're doing much for me in terms of looking female, and I don't think I look remotely female anyway, so. I don't know, really. Not massively pleased, I don't think. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Butterflies - brutal honesty is absolutely what I want. If people aren't going to be honest then what's the point in posting in a thread asking If you look female or could pass as female? Sugarcoating and compliments are all well and good, but they're entirely useless as a response to the thread question. Being honest, there are people who don't pass but absolutely could with the right makeup and maybe a bit of work, but if everyone is just nicey nicey to them they'll never realise this and they'll always wonder why people give them odd looks or misgender them in public when the nice people on the internet said they look ever so feminine and pretty. And I think that's much worse for someone in the long run. Much worse. Honesty, however brutal, is the only thing that can help you make positive changes and really help, in practically any endeavour. So, please - tell me exactly what you think.

[Brenda E]

I see some really heavy handed sugar coating here which I'd call dousing in maple syrup and caramel sauce until you can't see what's underneath. If I looked like some people here and got the comments they got and went out in false confidence only to face looks and whispers and giggles and talk, I'd consider those people not only not my friends but some of the cruelest people around. I'd consider their syrupy words an act of despising and hatred.

Sure, this thread does have a habit of sugar-coating, but I think that's the whole point.  It's a safe place (usually) for those just starting out or those lacking confidence to gain some exposure and experience, and where people can gain some gentle and constructive feedback in bite-size, positive chunks.  It's lighthearted too, and a place where photos are shared in a friendly, casual manner between friends.

It's not - and it's never really been? - a place where people expect brutal, real-life analysis of every aspect of their appearance.  If people wanted that, all they need to is step outside their front door; such advice is regularly offered on an unsolicited basis by the less-polite members of society.  That said, brutal honesty is available here, but not by default; it tends to be requested explicitly, and never given without permission.

Regardless, one thing is absolutely certain: I've never read any advice, honest or sugar-coated, in this thread which originate from hatred.  I hope it stays that way.

[Brenda E]

While brutal honesty is on the table-how about me, going my my profile pic?

I think you're absolutely stunning.

That's brutally honest.

The diversity of what people find attractive is amazing; what I consider beautiful is probably not what the next person considers beautiful, or the next one.  Some of us (like me) find quirky and confident styling very pretty, and others prefer more traditional (and elusive?) standards of beauty.

And trying not to turn this into an episode of Barney and Friends, it really is what's on the inside that makes someone cute to me.  One's attitude and approach to life is far more important than how one looks.  From your posts here, your attitude and approach to life is spot on.

Don't dump the lipstick, by the way. 😉