Being treated like a PERSON instead of having "privileges"

[makipu]

Is it or will it ever be possible for people (in general) to treat the nonbinary (of any kind) like a PERSON instead of a male or a female? 
I keep reading about these "male and female privileges" from various posts in here and find them both quite disturbing. This is the main reason I don't talk to people.  Also I am mainly referring to non LGBT people because obviously they would already have some understanding being open minded and all regarding this but my problem lies in the fact that I precisely don't want to talk to them because they are from LGBT since I feel like I am "outing" myself here.
So it's like a no win situation either way; cis or trans= discomfort for me...

Even when I go to my gender clinic I feel like I am outing myself. I am always uncomfortable and I just want to get the appointment over with so I can leave. I am always scared that someone I know will see me in there.. I hate myself for having this birth defect.

[Satinjoy]

Birth anomaly my dear.

Not defect.  Special.  Don't let anyone say otherwise or if they do, know it is not truth.

And you are surely a special person in my book. 

Foolish, this fighting.  It should not be.

Outlast it.

Blessings

Satinjoy

[Mark3]

  Awww, it's not your fault. I'm sorry things are so difficult for you right now. 

I don't know if things will ever change in society enough to be acceptable to us.? Maybe in time, I really hope so.
But for now, we all just have to muddle through our days, doing the best we can. And thats all that anyone expects from you, or you should expect from yourself. Everyone fails, falls and is treated unfairly at times, what makes a person successful is the getting up part.

I'm not sure how to answer the other questions you asked, or way you feel, I'm sure others will have more insight..

Take special care.
Mark

[suzifrommd]

Is it or will it ever be possible for people (in general) to treat the nonbinary (of any kind) like a PERSON instead of a male or a female? 

In my opinion, no. Gendering people is wired into human brains. We figure out people's gender and then treat them according to the way we expect people of that gender should be treated. It is subconscious and nearly impossible to eradicate.

The good news is that the closer a friend is - the more they really get what you're about - the less gendered their treatment of you will be and the more connected it will be to who you really are.

I don't know if this helps, but it's all I got. Sorry.

[Edge]

Honestly, I get more luck being treated like who I am from people who are not within the LGBT community.

[cathyrains]

In my opinion, no. Gendering people is wired into human brains. We figure out people's gender and then treat them according to the way we expect people of that gender should be treated. It is subconscious and nearly impossible to eradicate.

The good news is that the closer a friend is - the more they really get what you're about - the less gendered their treatment of you will be and the more connected it will be to who you really are.

I don't know if this helps, but it's all I got. Sorry.

Incorrect.
Sex may be wired into human brains but gender is the way we believe we should act or treat people by virtue of their sex.

[peky]

Is it or will it ever be possible for people (in general) to treat the nonbinary (of any kind) like a PERSON instead of a male or a female? 
I keep reading about these "male and female privileges" from various posts in here and find them both quite disturbing. This is the main reason I don't talk to people.  Also I am mainly referring to non LGBT people because obviously they would already have some understanding being open minded and all regarding this but my problem lies in the fact that I precisely don't want to talk to them because they are from LGBT since I feel like I am "outing" myself here.
So it's like a no win situation either way; cis or trans= discomfort for me...

Even when I go to my gender clinic I feel like I am outing myself. I am always uncomfortable and I just want to get the appointment over with so I can leave. I am always scared that someone I know will see me in there.. I hate myself for having this birth defect.

One hopes that the binaries would be more sensitive to the non-binaries but lets have some patience dear... the whole non0binary phenomena is new, even in the LGBT community...

Treat the disturbing threads like a radio, change the station if that music is not of your like...

[mrs izzy]

Treat the disturbing threads like a radio, change the station if that music is not of your like...

Well said, wish more would. There is no one in these forums that are better then anyone else. A community of equals so remember that when we make posts.

[Pikachu]

If it makes you feel any better, the whole idea of gender "privilege" is alien to me. I see other people talking about it like it's this thing that permeates all of society, but I've never personally experienced it, and I'm binary. There are a LOT of people out there who will treat you as a person and not a gender, but of course, there will always be those who only see superficial characteristics and make assumptions based on them. Don't let them bring you down, okay?

[VeronicaLynn]

If it makes you feel any better, the whole idea of gender "privilege" is alien to me. I see other people talking about it like it's this thing that permeates all of society, but I've never personally experienced it, and I'm binary. There are a LOT of people out there who will treat you as a person and not a gender, but of course, there will always be those who only see superficial characteristics and make assumptions based on them. Don't let them bring you down, okay?

Most of these "privileges" are overstated and do not even apply to everyone of that gender, just certain members of it. Alpha male types and really good looking women are the ones that have most of these in this society...

I wasted a good portion of my life trying to figure out how to become some alpha male type, when I'd really rather have the privileges of a really good looking woman...

[Jess42]

Ok this is just my opinion but the only privilege that I see from people is if they have one helluva trust fund or they are a celebrity or their last name is Hilton or Kardashian.

Other than that I can't get into an exclusive club unless I play a gig there. I think this whole privilege thing is something that seems real but is nothing more than an illusion.

[Dread_Faery]

Privilege refers to something being seen as the default state by society. So cis privilege exists because cis gender identities are viewed by society as the default, gender identities that are different than that are other. Having a particular privilege doesn't automatically mean that you are well off, it just means that a particular aspect of your life is viewed by society as being default rather than other. Lines of privilege and oppression intersect differently for everyone and certain lines of oppression can have a profound effect on how others are experienced. For example, a WoC experiences sexism very differently to a white woman because of the intersection of racism and misogyny.

When talking about binary privilege all it means is that for both cis and trans gender identities, binary identities are viewed as the default (I am viewing gender non-conforming cis gender individuals as non-binary for this). Obviously if you are trans that is a major line if oppression and having binary privilege does not negate that, it just means that in an environment where trans identities are viewed as being valid, having a binary identity means you have more chance that people will accept it as valid.

What it is not is some kind of magical token that allows binary identified trans people to exist without trouble in the cis world.

[Taka]

i have experienced havong and not having male anf female privilege, as well as binary privilege. it often takes me by surprise, as i don't realize that one groups has privilege in certain settings until i experience it in ways that seem extremely bizarre and meaningless to me.

there are some defaults in society which i don't always notice until they're practically thrown at me, because i don't treat people diffenrently based on anything other than personality traits that i have personally observed in that person. so it always surprises me when someone defaults based on someone's gender, appearance, skin color, clothing, accent, family background or other things that would not matter in an ideal world.

privilege definitely exists. but it is not something that makes people good or bad, and many who realize their privilege will even use it to help less lucky members of their society.

[Jaded Jade]

I wouldn't call variant gender identity a birth defect.  It is natural human variation, and in some cultures it is even celebrated.  None of this is new, some people have been like this thousands of years.

The problem comes when you have a variant gender identity in a society or culture that doesn't even recognize it as being real.

Will most cis- people "get it", no, but the good ones will still treat you well.

I am slowly coming out to my friends, and making some new ones in my local LGBT group.  Each person I talk to makes me feel a bit more at ease, and less worried about the ones that I don't feel I can talk to about it.  The cat is likely to be out of the bag eventually for me, but once that happens I plan to already have a wide support network in place.


- Jaded Jade

[Taka]

a post was not posted and i realized too late i posted my last post totally off topic... because i thought i'd already said wjat wasn't posted. sorry about that.

moving on topic again, being treated as a person is something that happens. not always where i'd expect it though. the easiest ones to deal with  as well as the hardest ones, have been students. it seems there is a difference between those who study a subject they're interested inand those who study because everybody else does, and just follow the main stream. the first group has a whole lot of interesting persons who are so weird themselves (in a good way) that they usually don't have any problems accepting one more weird.

among trans people i get both acceptance and (binary) gender policing. trans people probably aren't any better or worse than the cis, but it's just a little bit more hurtful and frustrating when it comes from someone who should know a little bit of what it's like to not be accepted for who you are. seems some cis people also have this kind of experience in other areas though, and have no big problems relating and accepting/understanding.

[Natkat]

Is it or will it ever be possible for people (in general) to treat the nonbinary (of any kind) like a PERSON instead of a male or a female? 
I keep reading about these "male and female privileges" from various posts in here and find them both quite disturbing. This is the main reason I don't talk to people.  Also I am mainly referring to non LGBT people because obviously they would already have some understanding being open minded and all regarding this but my problem lies in the fact that I precisely don't want to talk to them because they are from LGBT since I feel like I am "outing" myself here.
So it's like a no win situation either way; cis or trans= discomfort for me...

Even when I go to my gender clinic I feel like I am outing myself. I am always uncomfortable and I just want to get the appointment over with so I can leave. I am always scared that someone I know will see me in there.. I hate myself for having this birth defect.

im not exactly sure on which thing you refern to. I think what may make you unconfortable of male & female privilige is for you as a non-binary that it wont aplye, but that itself is a lack of privilige, the cisprivilige which I find better decribing than male and female privilige since female in general term are not really priviliged for there female gender, but more for there cis-genderness, or (if trans) the ability to pass and be like a cisgender.
-
I think it very difficult to be viewed as just a person. There sure are friends and situations where you can be so, but in many cultures since childbirth we are grown up raised to learn the diffrence in male and female, and it terryfying how much it can disturb people falling out of the boxes.
as mention good friends who see you for you, or certain place or comunities where you can get to be yourself exist but sadly in the general world theres alot of ignorance and very binary mindset.

[Ms Grace]

If people would treat everyone as people instead of a gender/sex/whatever then it wouldn't be an issue.

Except... I tried to explain the non-binary concept to a work colleague yesterday and she laughed in disbelief - I would consider her open minded and she has been very supportive of me. Her reaction seems symptomatic of how the vast majority sees the gender issues we're currently exploring.

[JulieBlair]

I'm kind of yes and I don't know on this one.  I surrendered male privilege when I began presenting full time as female.  Now about four months on I am treated pretty much like any woman at work.  When I leave the campus, that acceptance (read female privilege) is left mostly behind.

I'm confusing to many people, sometimes I look feminine, sometimes masculine, sometimes queer.  To those who love me it's not much of an issue, but it blows the heuristics of expectation from most of the people I interact with into an alternate reality.  Fortunately I'm old enough that I get more age related privilege than gender related privilege.

All this said.  I really cannot complain, outside of the few who intensely reject me for transitioning, I am treated and accepted with grace and courtesy.  I totally get that the non-binary people become weary explaining themselves to the binary folks here, but I haven't experienced that dichotomy as much in the real world.  Perhaps it is related to not worrying much about the pronouns people use to describe me.  I get called sir/ma'am/miss/hey you almost interchangeably

We/They/He/She/Us wish you fair winds.

Julie

[peky]

Most of these "privileges" are overstated and do not even apply to everyone of that gender, just certain members of it. Alpha male types and really good looking women are the ones that have most of these in this society...

I wasted a good portion of my life trying to figure out how to become some alpha male type, when I'd really rather have the privileges of a really good looking woman...

The real privileges are tied to money, money, and money ... the rest just walk!

[Pikachu]

The real privileges are tied to money, money, and money ... the rest just walk!

Yep. I'm dirt poor. I don't have any privileges.