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Which corrective feminizing surgery would you go for first?

Started by Blush, May 11, 2015, 12:52:48 PM

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Which corrective feminizing surgery would you go for first?

Sexual reassignment surgery
20 (21.1%)
Brow ridge feminization (including forehead contouring)
15 (15.8%)
Tracheal (Adam's apple) shave
5 (5.3%)
Jaw feminization
6 (6.3%)
Breast augmentation/implants
6 (6.3%)
Rhinoplasty (nose)
8 (8.4%)
Scalp/hairline advancement
2 (2.1%)
Electrolysis and/or laser hair removal
21 (22.1%)
Vocal feminization surgery
5 (5.3%)
Lip augmentation/implants
0 (0%)
Other (please explain which below)
7 (7.4%)

Total Members Voted: 81

Lady Smith

Assuming that HRT is a free card I chose electrolysis, which is what I chose the first time around.  HRT stopped my mind from feeling like it was being murdered, started my breasts budding and made me impotent (Yay!) so that got me to a place where I could start to feel at peace with myself.  After that getting rid of the black sticks that wanted to sprout out of my face was the priority.  To my mind nothing says 'bloke' so much as facial hair so that had to be gone and going through six months worth of pain as well as having a face full of raw weeping holes in my skin after every session was well worth it.

For a second choice if I could afford it, or if a kind someone gave me the money insisting I had to use it for surgery, I would go for GRS.  I have an orchi now and would love to have a penectomy, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.  If GRS was a viable option I'd take it though even though I have no interest in sexual intimacy because I think it would be easier to get the gatekeepers to approve it over a penectomy.
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Carrie Liz

Quote from: LeaP on May 11, 2015, 06:39:23 PM
All that said, I wonder why anyone who thinks they are transsexual would not want SRS.  AND FFS.

Pretty simple answer there... because not every transsexual person has genital dysphoria in the first place, and many more don't want to go through SRS due to fears of complications or feeling like the surgery isn't advanced enough yet, and don't want to dilate forever or become infertile in order to do it. And in regards to FFS, a lot of trans people like their faces and don't feel the need to change them.

In regards to the opening post, I'm going to join the small crowd that says that voice feminization surgery is probably the biggest deal in regards to being accepted by other people... (if one is physically feminine enough that they look at least moderately passable. And most trans people can reach that point.) One of the biggest things that gives trans women away is still having a male-sounding voice. I've had a friend who had VFS tell me that people she met told her "we were wondering if you might be trans or not when we met you, but we decided probably not, because of your voice." I've also heard the statement "I pass just fine, until I open my mouth" tossed around a lot. I've met many androgynous-looking women who I could only tell were women because of their voices. And over on the FtM side, I've seen a lot of frustration with pre-testosterone guys being called "he" at first glance but then facing constant "sorry, I meant she"s once they have to speak to someone.

Basically, if you look androgynous, voice is the deal-breaker IMO.

The thing is, though, there is no magic-bullet answer to which procedure will help any individual trans person pass the most. And I think that is where a lot of people get disappointed, is that they're expecting one thing to be the deal-breaker which finally lets them live completely without worry. And, well, if you can only afford one thing, you need to be realistic. Each procedure feminizes only ONE thing. After FFS, if you had a deep voice, you're still going to have a deep voice. So unless you're almost perfectly cis-normative in appearance, you're probably still going to trigger people's suspicions. Likewise, if you have a very masculine face, feminizing your voice will only help so much, people will still be curious as to why you look a bit guyish.

Going into the procedure expecting that it will fix one thing and one thing only, and not be a magic-bullet nuclear-option that will cure all of your passability problems once and for all, is key to happiness with all of these things. People getting SRS first are often bummed because they still look trans. People getting FFS first are often bummed because it didn't fix their body frame or voice and they're still getting read as trans. It happens.

The way I see it, do some self-analysis. Just live your life, and pay attention when dysphoria and fears arise. What exactly was it that triggered that dysphoria? Keep a running tab of which body features triggered your dysphoria the most consistently. Fix that thing first. Tackle whatever it is that is having the biggest negative impact on your own life. And again, just accept that it's an imperfect process, that you can only do so much, and focus on tackling the biggest issues. What this biggest issue is will be different for each person.

And again, don't expect a single magic-bullet answer of "after this procedure all of my problems will be over." You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you do that. Just focus on the big ones, tackle what you can tackle, and try not to worry so much about what you can't change. It's all about being happy with yourself, and doing the things that YOU want done.
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Annabelle

Ooo interesting thread. If it was possible, I would have loved to have my shoulder width reduced by a lot. Having broad shoulders suck :( But aside from the shoulders, I would have to say SRS all the way :D
Boo~

12-5-2014 start of hrt.
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Lady Smith

I must comment that FFS is something that I've never considered.  My paternal grandmother had a jaw like the bow of a coal barge which unfortunately got passed onto me and my siblings, but all the same my face is my face and I wouldn't want to change it for any reason.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: LeaP on May 11, 2015, 06:39:23 PM
All that said, I wonder why anyone who thinks they are transsexual would not want SRS.  AND FFS.

Well I do think I'm transsexual and I don't want FFS. It's an assault on a body that I've already assaulted too much and that I'd like to nurse me through another few good years. I support those who do choose FFS, but I feel I owe it to my body not to put it through more than I have to.

Do you still wonder why or have I satisfied your curiosity.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Kimberley Beauregard

I'd probably feminise my jaw.  I can live with my eyebrow ridge and it's easier to mask.
- Kim
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Violet Bloom

  I chose laser/electrolysis because it was the first thing I absolutely needed to feel comfortable presenting part-time.  In terms of actual surgery though it is FFS for me, which, by the way, I'm scheduled for tomorrow!!! ;D :o :'(

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mmmmm

Quote from: charlotte15 on May 12, 2015, 01:03:05 AM
FFS regret, you mean they didn't chose the right surgeon and the result was not female enough?

I just can't imagine anything else. I mean, finally being yourself, not just for yourself but for everyone to see. Are there messages about that on the board? I could't imagine that being less than 1%, as for the transition regrets

No, I meant some people who went and had a FFS before apparently being really committed to transitioning, and after having FFS they realized that they are not really transsexual (or enough?), and wanted their old face back. While this is not a such problem in a case of FFS (looking younger and more pretty despite not transitioning), it is a big problem with SRS, because many trans people realize after a couple years on HRT and living full-time, that they are not actually more happy than they were before, and decide to de-transition and live as men again. Its far more common than it is written about on a websites like this. Most cases are trans women who are read and seen as trans, and consequences in everyday life become more and more unbearable because of that. You won't hear often about young perfectly passable transwomen de-transitioning.




Violet Bloom... Good luck with your surgery! :)
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LeaP

Quote from: Lady Smith on May 12, 2015, 02:34:27 AM
I must comment that FFS is something that I've never considered.  My paternal grandmother had a jaw like the bow of a coal barge which unfortunately got passed onto me ...

Interestingly, you look a bit like one of my aunts.

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 12, 2015, 05:38:09 AM
Do you still wonder why or have I satisfied your curiosity.

Please don't mistake rhetorical statements, in this case my challenge, or Socratic question, for a judgement.  As Mariah said, no-one's personal motivations are being questioned.  I don't sit in judgement of any individual, despite the question.  It's neither my right nor my inclination. 

The topic raises the question of priorities (among other things).  There are many things that drive priorities.  My question delves into the boundaries between conditions, why they exist, how they may be differentiated, and how they are best treated. 

Quote from: Carrie Liz on May 12, 2015, 02:18:53 AM
Pretty simple answer there... because not every transsexual person has genital dysphoria in the first place, and many more don't want to go through SRS due to fears of complications or feeling like the surgery isn't advanced enough yet, and don't want to dilate forever or become infertile in order to do it. And in regards to FFS, a lot of trans people like their faces and don't feel the need to change them.

..
And again, don't expect a single magic-bullet answer of "after this procedure all of my problems will be over." You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you do that. Just focus on the big ones, tackle what you can tackle, and try not to worry so much about what you can't change. It's all about being happy with yourself, and doing the things that YOU want done.

Per the rationale for my contributions to this thread, I've focused more on FFS than genital surgeries because it highlights the boundary point so much more clearly (in its ambiguity, no less). 

I will only comment here on the first paragraph cited, as it relates to MtFs, along the lines of my "by choice," or congruence desire point. Which is that none of the reasons cited, such as fear, go to that point.  They are other types of considerations and they are, of course, the right of every individual to weigh for themselves. 

As it relates to FtMs, I wouldn't question the point of the state of the surgeries' art.  FtMs have a very different set of considerations to weigh with surgeries and I leave that topic to them.

I'm not sure who you were addressing your last paragraph to.  I agree, but would extend the logic in the opposite direction, too ... pre-transition.  Strictly and narrowly speaking, transition doesn't create identity.  It actualizes it, of course, but it does not make a woman out of a man.  THAT question (if there even was one) should be firmly, finally, and completely resolved before transition!  As such, once someone has that degree of certainty, there is nothing to prevent them working on any gender-related or gender-created issues NOW. 
Lea
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akegia

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Sabrina

I would likely get breast augmentation because of looks. But ffs is also high on the list.
- Sabrina

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Violet Bloom

  If it helps the discussion at all, my FFS comes three years into my transition.  I am quite committed to doing this now, but it also involves self-image issues that have dogged me my whole life.  Whatever I come out looking like, I know I'll be happier no matter how my identity might shift.

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islandgirl

Very interesting discussion! As I was reading all your responses, I was wondering, given my age, what I would want to do first. I have already started electrolysis, 5 sessions in and a long way to go,  but then what would give me the greatest benefit. I have MPB, small lips, and a fairly high forehead. If I was in a position to choose now what to do, only on HRT for just over 3 months, I would go for SRS. I see woman in all shapes and sizes, all with different features and many wanting to change something about there appearance. At least with SRS I would have a base to go forward. Who knows where I will end up on the process. I am just so happy to be on the path.
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Ellesmira the Duck

I suppose it would depend on what I wanted to accomplish, for personal satisfaction, I'd go with SRS. I could live without the rest, however, in terms of bang for you buck, I'd think BA is a far more reasonable price and recovery time and will overall do more to help help me pass. So you, if it wasn't paid for by me, SRS. But my first major surgery will be a BA most likely.
Live a life with no regrets and be the person you know you were meant to be.

I am a weird girl, I like video games and skirts, swords and nail polish, sharks and black lace...not sure if that's normal, definitely sure that I don't care. =P
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OCAnne

Quote from: islandgirl on May 12, 2015, 10:32:16 AM
...I see woman in all shapes and sizes, all with different features and many wanting to change something about there appearance. At least with SRS I would have a base to go forward. Who knows where I will end up on the process. I am just so happy to be on the path.

Amen!
Even the first notable transition (Christine Jorgensen) back in the 1950's started with SRS, HRT followed.  Starting with a good foundation is always best to build upon, correct?

Perhaps it would be best if we avoid getting too hung up on looks and instead concentrate on just being women!  Skinny, tall, fat, pretty or ugly, we come in many flavors and styles.  FFS is great but does that make a woman?

Why SRS first?  How about we listen to those who have walked the walk.
Quote from our elder, Lynn Conway.  She underwent SRS in 1968...The year I was born!

It's so hard to explain all this to those who haven't experienced physical mis-gendering. Without reassignment, such a person isn't able to experience their full humanity, including their sexuality. It just doesn't work. Sex reassignment is NOT A CHOICE for such people. It is a life-enabling transformation that makes their physical sex consistent with their innate gender feelings. Without a consistent gender, one really doesn't have a life, much less liberty and a chance to pursue happiness. -Lynn Conway.

I want to be happy!
'My Music, Much Money, Many Moons'
YTMV (Your Transsexualism May Vary)
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LeaP

While I agree with Lynn, recognize that the gatekeeping of the time enforced a sequence of events.

Both SRS and FFS are gender confirming surgeries. That is, true FFS - cosmetic procedures performed in conjunction with FFS (which is largely structural and not soft tissue, though this isn't exact) aren't feminization, however desirable they might be.

No surgery makes one into a woman.  As for what FFS accomplishes - ask Lynn ... Ousterhaut did hers. 
Lea
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SonadoraXVX

Short of a full ffs, a forehead recountering, second nose or eye orbitals, followed by ears and hairline.
To know thyself is to be blessed, but to know others is to prevent supreme headaches
Sun Tzu said it best, "To know thyself is half the battle won, but to know yourself and the enemy, is to win 100% of the battles".



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naomi599

If possible I would pursue full FFS but money is always an issue... but if I had to choose, I would get my chin worked on first followed by brow ridge feminization and last my nose but my nose isn't too much of a concern for me. Maybe SRS will be first on my list, one day, depending on where life takes me. Although I hate my downstairs area, there's more pain in seeing the wrong face in the mirror.
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charlotte15

Quote from: OOAnne on May 12, 2015, 11:49:19 AM
FFS is great but does that make a woman?

If the tree falls in a forest where there is no one to hear it, does it makes a sound?

Just having SRS (say not even laser or electrolysis) won't make someone a woman. She'll still get sired all the time, and none would be the wiser of what's in her panties if the doesn't wear dresses or makeup.

For me, being a woman means not being able to be confused with a man, or pass as a man - a permanent male fail if you want. It means being unable to claim male privilege ever again. Maybe this is a feminist view of what a woman is, but that's my view.

About SRS, I'm not sure. I don't really hate these parts to the point of throwing up. I'm indifferent. I'm considering an orchy as it would be less expansive, but if SRS was paid for and gave a good functional results, I could wear bathsuits and bikinis - so why not?

I mean, I don't discard the possibility. But it's like far far far away on my list of priority. I mean, when I'll have more money, I'll first make sure my face is as feminine as possible, with a 2nd round of FFS if needed, then see how VFS have progressed - if there are new techniques better than Wendler glottoplasty, as the videos on youtube are at best unconvincing. You've got to have a great voice to begin with.

Once again, maybe some people have more luck than me. Whatever.

Quote from: OOAnne on May 12, 2015, 11:49:19 AM
Why SRS first?  How about we listen to those who have walked the walk.

I have no respect for traditions, authority and the likes. I'll forge my own path.
AA, Laser and Electrolysis since 2011
HRT since 2014
FFS done in 2015
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LeaP

I just spun off a thread on FFS, so don't want to expand on that any further. 

The side topic of womanhood misses the point. Which is, feminization procedures of all types aren't intended to create something that doesn't exist, but to finish something that  is incomplete. 
Lea
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