Facial Changes on HRT after 1 year. what's reasonable?

[gothique11]

You go girl! It's important to be yourself. Believe in yourself. People will say things, or they will say that things are just not possible -- but anything is possible. How HRT reacts on one person could be totally different than the next. Who knows where it goes? But never let the what if's and "that's not possible" stop you. Keep going, be proud of who you are and what you've accomplished and forget what others think.

Your personal experience is what's most valid in your life. I think that's great that at 62 guys are cranning their heads around. That's just awesome and it must be a great feeling. And to get carded, even! That's just awesome.

In my experience, pictures aren't worth much, really. They are just a picture, and a person is much more than that. I've seen people with bad or so-so pictures look stunning in real life. Even if those people aren't the media's "ideal" view of beautiful, they can still be beautiful when the walk in the room. Their confidence shines and so does their spirit. It's an amazing thing to see.

So many people try to live to the "ideal" while bringing themselves down unnecessarily. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't think SRS or FFS is worth it; it if helps you to be more confident, that is great. But if we are constantly comparing ourselves to the ideal, we are hanging on to something that will drag us down.  If you want to improve, that's great, and there is nothing wrong with that. But improving oneself and comparing oneself to an ideal is a different thing; one is being the best you can be, and the other is trying to live up to something intangible.

There is no ideal woman (or man). Everyone is different. We all have different body shapes and sizes. Some things can be fixed, and some things can't. And, of course, there will be similarities to our old selves and our new selves -- we're in the same body, even with changes, if one really looks they can find similarities. Just like I can look at non-identical twins and see similarities. I can look at my family, and I can see similarities. But just because there are similarities it doesn't mean we look the same or are the same. I'm a much different person now than I was back then. I might have similarities to the old me, but I'm not the old me.

Being a woman is much more than looks. Much more than the physical. Much more than the way you sound or move your body. It's much deeper than that. And when you have that deeper connection to your womanhood, even if you don't fit some ideal, your soul still shines to the world who you really are. People will pick up on that. People will see that and know that. I don't even know how to explain it. It's just there. And really, that's the most important thing. Above that, looking the part, acting the part and all that are complimentary. It's how you are inside that is the real foundation to who you are.


--natalie

[Tanya1]

I understand that appearance isn't everything. Their are so many other things that can make your or break you. But I believe that If I  honestly tell a trans about her flaws and that she still doesn't fit ideally in the female social life, I'm doing her a favor because then she will know that she needs improvement- in which I believe ANYTHING is possible. When I state about women having curvy bodies, shorter height, small hands & feet, round face, big eyes- I'm talking about the beauty of what is ussaully expected of a women. And if you want to live with these standards than great- if you don't then great.- BUT if you do really wish to live with these standards then I believe someone should give you a honest opinion so you know what needs improvement.

One of you posted  pics of yourself. At some pics you noted that you still looked male and you had some sarcasm with the posts.- if your happy with the body changes HRT has done for you and you could live without having some hottie's face- then that is totally acceptable.

For Example; You could be a millionare and decide that you have a enough money in your life so you don't want to invest in stocks anymore or try to become any richer than you already are.

Same with transitioning.

And yes again appearance isn't everything, you really need deep down be a female. thoughts, manners, they way you approach life, how you deal with problems, your social approach etc all more important than appearance- appearance is just to be in TUNE with who you are it DOESNT make you who you are.


Now someone just mentioned about losing 2 inches. I believe it's possible for me to lose that amount too. although I'm 5 6' which is a great height I desire to 2 inches off. Someone who I mentioned that their bone structure might have changed. Your face got rounder. Congrats.

I just need fat in my cheeks. my bone structure is fine.

[gothique11]

I never said improvement wasn't a good thing. I think improvement is just fine. It says so in my last post. But putting someone down isn't a good method to encourage someone to improve (it's called negative reinforcement, and it doesn't work).

And I never said just thinking your female is the all-of-be-all, either. It's a major part, however. Everything is just built on top of that. Of course there is social things, and blah, blah, blah.

And, by the way, negative reinforcement never helps anyone. Being an a$$hole and pretending that you are the bag of chips and all that, come to save us poor souls that look just like men, isn't going to get you far. (There's a difference between being constructive and helpful, and being just an a$$hole about things, which you come across as).

And oh, boo-hoo, you called me a man. Oh no! I don't think I'll got to the club tonight, but instead I'll just stay at home and hide because someone called me a guy.

That's nice that just based on a stupid picture you know so much about me and everyone else in here. But honestly, I don't care. You're some person on the internet. You don't know me in real life. You don't see me day-to-day. So, who are you to judge?

Am I perfect? Hell no! Is anyone perfect? Hell no! And you want to know something: A lot of women don't conform to your little ideal. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm sorry, but just going up to a group of TS people and saying, "hey, you all look like men." Isn't going to get you much praise, and no one is going to think that you are their savior doing them a favor by telling them that. Don't you think that ppl have enough issues on their mind to worry about what some know it all kid thinks?

Why don't you try this: Try finding something nice to say for a change, find a good quality. Like, "Wow, I really like your makeup, tell me how you do it." Find a good quality in someone. If you see a so-called "flaw", why not add to it and say. "Wow, I really like your makeup, tell me how do you do your eyes. You know what would look good, if you arched your eye brows just a little bit. Here, let check this site out, it helped me a lot." That's called being constructive with constructive criticism. Just saying, "Wow, you look like a guy!" Does jack all, it just beats people down and makes them feel like nothing.

Everyone has good qualities. Everyone has bad qualities. The trick isn't to constantly cover up the bad qualities and get obsessed about them. The trick is to bring out the good qualities, and use them to your advantage. And when you get to that point, you start working on the other things. You can't work on the negatives if you have no positive ground. Start with finding something good about yourself, and go from there.

--natalie

[daisybelle]

BAH !! Based on all your pictures---- I am ready for HRT.   ( mock smile of jealous envy )

If all I received from HRT is less facial hair, more on top and smooth skin with a little softening of my male features -- I would be very happy.

Note: Racheal and Natalie,  and do not take this the wrong way -- but you are both HOT!!!  And Racheal how you went to a funeral and dress as a boy is beyond me.   Were there any pictures?   For both of you I can see where you came from from your older pictures in guy mode ( but that guy is gone ).   If either of you shave your head and did not wear makeup , bind your breasts, and wear male clothing, I think you would still be perceived as FEMALE.

Now I just need to see a gender therapist.   And lose some weight.

Daisy

[gothique11]

BAH !! Based on all your pictures---- I am ready for HRT.   ( mock smile of jealous envy )

If all I received from HRT is less facial hair, more on top and smooth skin with a little softening of my male features -- I would be very happy.

Note: Racheal and Natalie,  and do not take this the wrong way -- but you are both HOT!!!  And Racheal how you went to a funeral and dress as a boy is beyond me.   Were there any pictures?   For both of you I can see where you came from from your older pictures in guy mode ( but that guy is gone ).   If either of you shave your head and did not wear makeup , bind your breasts, and wear male clothing, I think you would still be perceived as FEMALE.

Now I just need to see a gender therapist.   And lose some weight.

Daisy

Awww, thnx.

And that's great! I hope that you can get on your HRT and look forward to the changes it brings.

[cindybc]

Hi, Natalie,

Oh dear, why all the venom here today? Come on, gals, lets get along already. I know what it feels like to have someone blatantly tell you you don't pass. What good will that do except upset someone?

Do you remember when you started just how badly you wanted everything to happen yesterday?  Well, it takes time and the hormones have various results on different people. I didn't do a whole lot more than take hormones and use a few Mary Kay products. But I think what really helped me to pass was, since I was a social worker, I knew the first thing that needed some changing was my personality and attitude. Just those two qualities were the magic elixir.

I have been going to several groups in the past seven years, most of which were populated by 90% females. So needless to say in the past seven years I have spent most of my waking hours working with women who never even gave me a second look, not even when I had personal meetings with them, I was just another fellow worker.

Natalie, hon, about the energy you speak of that affects other people, like a kinetic energy that on occasion attracts other souls to you, it is a psychic energy. Some of us have that ability about us.  It can be a really useful wonderful gift.  "Hey you look like a man!" is certainly not the quality that the inner-self would even consider saying blatantly to another person. It is the hormones that facilitate waking up the inner-self, and the emotions a very close second. Emotions that were never so profoundly experienced before by our prior selves.

Has anyone here ever experienced the profound emotions and other sensitivities one will experience? It's like a rainbow with all the different colors in the spectrum of light. It is very much like an awakening and is truly part of such a change in one's perception, seeing reality around them in a different light. The depth of these very profound feelings are equal no matter the reasons that brought them out, whether it be positive and negative. They are equal in depth. This is what touching or synchronizing with the inner-self.

I am not the same person that started 7 years ago, same body but I see things from a different perspective, and an awakening that will continue to evolve each day until I depart from this world.     

But there are some persons on the internet that can actually sense anothers feelings. If people would only get smart and think how another may react to a certain not-so-positive coment. I have noticed one thing that a TS messge board has in common with an empaths or sensitives message board and that is the sensitiveties to positive and negative energy. The biggest problem in a TS message board is those that still react to things through their old selves.   

Cindy

[Keira]

While constructive constructive criticism is something.
If someone asks me for an honest opinion I won't
be blowing smoke up their ass. Doesn't mean I'll
destroy them either.

Honesty done in a respectful way is much better
than obvious lies.

Most time when I see a TS that looks appaling, I bite
my tongue.... But some are a sight to see, and I'm
not talking a good sight. The kind that renders you
blind almost instantly. That they expect anybody
to treat them as women defies all logic. The
best they can expect is being treeted as decently
as human until they pull themselves together
in some way (often that... Huh effect is multi-factorial,
not necessarily just because of the physical component).

[Rachael]

makeup? what am makeup? i rarely if ever wear any! theres certainly none in my photos (too lazy) thanks daisybelle,
on hrt: depending on your age, hrt CAN recover hair loss to an extent, it sure as hells oftens skin, but facial hair loss is something ive heard is rare in the best of cases...
i dont think im hot by a long stretch, but thanks for your kind words, Nat however, is a sex bomb!
R

[cindybc]

Hi Keira

Right on woman! and that's the way it should be handled and I was to undertake trying to help someone I would first contact them on PM. first

Cindy

[Wing Walker]

I understand that appearance isn't everything. Their are so many other things that can make your or break you. But I believe that If I  honestly tell a trans about her flaws and that she still doesn't fit ideally in the female social life, I'm doing her a favor because then she will know that she needs improvement- in which I believe ANYTHING is possible. When I state about women having curvy bodies, shorter height, small hands & feet, round face, big eyes- I'm talking about the beauty of what is usually expected of a women. And if you want to live with these standards than great- if you don't then great.- BUT if you do really wish to live with these standards then I believe someone should give you a honest opinion so you know what needs improvement.

I love arrogance!  When it falls, it falls hard and usually destroys itself.  'tis a shame when it shows itself in such callow youth, but with some hard work, a callow youth can become more humble.

Nero is the "Arbiter of Beauty" on these boards.  I believe that anyone aspiring to that position should ask Nero first.

I never said improvement wasn't a good thing. I think improvement is just fine. It says so in my last post. But putting someone down isn't a good method to encourage someone to improve (it's called negative reinforcement, and it doesn't work).

And I never said just thinking your female is the all-of-be-all, either. It's a major part, however. Everything is just built on top of that. Of course there is social things, and blah, blah, blah.

And, by the way, negative reinforcement never helps anyone. Being an a$$hole and pretending that you are the bag of chips and all that, come to save us poor souls that look just like men, isn't going to get you far. (There's a difference between being constructive and helpful, and being just an a$$hole about things, which you come across as).

And oh, boo-hoo, you called me a man. Oh no! I don't think I'll got to the club tonight, but instead I'll just stay at home and hide because someone called me a guy.

That's nice that just based on a stupid picture you know so much about me and everyone else in here. But honestly, I don't care. You're some person on the Internet. You don't know me in real life. You don't see me day-to-day. So, who are you to judge?

Well-spoken, Natalie!  I love your attitude!  I am *me* and pits on whoever doesn't like it.  Your postings make sense and sometimes I wish that I thought of them first.

It's wise for one to remember whose toes they stepped on today because they might meet them next week and be in no position for retaliation.

You are also a kind woman, especially for telling a newbie to stop the bad-mouthing and put the judge's robes away, especially for such a young newbie.  Life goes better for those who go with the flow, and who find out who they really are and be the best person they can be.  In our case we have found the woman we are and now we're being the best her that we can be.

For those who like limericks, I leave you with one that has been attributed to Abraham Lincoln:

As to looks, I know I'm no star.
There are others more pretty by far.
But my face, I don't mind it, because I'm behind it.
It's the people in front that I jar! 

LMAO!!!!!

I am not the same person that started 7 years ago, same body but I see things from a different perspective, and an awakening that will continue to evolve each day until I depart from this world.     

But there are some persons on the Internet that can actually sense another's feelings. If people would only get smart and think how another may react to a certain not-so-positive comment. I have noticed one thing that a TS message board has in common with an empaths or sensitives message board and that is the sensitivities to positive and negative energy. The biggest problem in a TS message board is those that still react to things through their old selves.   

Cindy

Enjoy yourself at the club, Natalie!

Wing Walker
Flying Level and Above this Weather

[daisybelle]

Racheal,  you disappoint me.  You are a girl  --- hrt has seen to that.   While I believe you see a girl when you look in the mirror....  I do not believe you see the girl you want or could be.  This might be due to funding...... but have patience you will get there. 

Trust me I would trade in a heartbeat to switch from my 42 years position.

Daisy

[Rachael]

funding? try none...
this is the only girl i am for a long time...
R

[Berliegh]

While constructive constructive criticism is something. If someone asks me for an honest opinion I won't be blowing smoke up their ass. Doesn't mean I'll destroy them either. Honesty done in a respectful way is much better than obvious lies.

Most time when I see a TS that looks appaling, I bite my tongue.... But some are a sight to see, and I'm not talking a good sight. The kind that renders you blind almost instantly. That they expect anybody to treat them as women defies all logic. The best they can expect is being treated as decently as human until they pull themselves together in some way (often that... Huh effect is multi-factorial, not necessarily just because of the physical component).

That was put across very well Keira and it's the kind of thing I wanted to say...

[Tanya1]

I never said improvement wasn't a good thing. I think improvement is just fine. It says so in my last post. But putting someone down isn't a good method to encourage someone to improve (it's called negative reinforcement, and it doesn't work).

And I never said just thinking your female is the all-of-be-all, either. It's a major part, however. Everything is just built on top of that. Of course there is social things, and blah, blah, blah.

And, by the way, negative reinforcement never helps anyone. Being an a$$hole and pretending that you are the bag of chips and all that, come to save us poor souls that look just like men, isn't going to get you far. (There's a difference between being constructive and helpful, and being just an a$$hole about things, which you come across as).

And oh, boo-hoo, you called me a man. Oh no! I don't think I'll got to the club tonight, but instead I'll just stay at home and hide because someone called me a guy.

That's nice that just based on a stupid picture you know so much about me and everyone else in here. But honestly, I don't care. You're some person on the internet. You don't know me in real life. You don't see me day-to-day. So, who are you to judge?

Am I perfect? Hell no! Is anyone perfect? Hell no! And you want to know something: A lot of women don't conform to your little ideal. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm sorry, but just going up to a group of TS people and saying, "hey, you all look like men." Isn't going to get you much praise, and no one is going to think that you are their savior doing them a favor by telling them that. Don't you think that ppl have enough issues on their mind to worry about what some know it all kid thinks?

Why don't you try this: Try finding something nice to say for a change, find a good quality. Like, "Wow, I really like your makeup, tell me how you do it." Find a good quality in someone. If you see a so-called "flaw", why not add to it and say. "Wow, I really like your makeup, tell me how do you do your eyes. You know what would look good, if you arched your eye brows just a little bit. Here, let check this site out, it helped me a lot." That's called being constructive with constructive criticism. Just saying, "Wow, you look like a guy!" Does jack all, it just beats people down and makes them feel like nothing.

Everyone has good qualities. Everyone has bad qualities. The trick isn't to constantly cover up the bad qualities and get obsessed about them. The trick is to bring out the good qualities, and use them to your advantage. And when you get to that point, you start working on the other things. You can't work on the negatives if you have no positive ground. Start with finding something good about yourself, and go from there.

--natalie

Listen, If I offended you in anyway, I'm sorry.

Your not going to agree with me BUT I never mentioned ANY names! But suddenly your saying that I called you a man, which I NEVER did. And then you start calling me an asswhole- which just shows you have some lack of esteem because I never pointed any fingers at anyone. I think you look pretty in your profile pic. I don't think you could judge me either, I may sound "negative"- but on top of that i'm very incouraging. This is human nature, whenever you point to someone's weakness(I meant to in polite manner) they suddenly try to cover it. We prefer illusions to reality.


And Yes your right, don't go up to T's and tell them you look like men. BUT if they do ask then you should tell them honestly. I didn't intend that i go up to ppl and start picking their flaws. I only intended that if they ask then you should tell them their strenghts and weaknesses. Sugar coating will not do them any good.

and yes your right, you shouldn't always concentrate on your bad traits. if you embrace the good traits more good traits will come out of you.


Anyway, I don't mean to do any harm. If someone wants to shutdown this thread they can do so.

Posted on: October 19, 2007, 05:25:24 PM

I understand that appearance isn't everything. Their are so many other things that can make your or break you. But I believe that If I  honestly tell a trans about her flaws and that she still doesn't fit ideally in the female social life, I'm doing her a favor because then she will know that she needs improvement- in which I believe ANYTHING is possible. When I state about women having curvy bodies, shorter height, small hands & feet, round face, big eyes- I'm talking about the beauty of what is usually expected of a women. And if you want to live with these standards than great- if you don't then great.- BUT if you do really wish to live with these standards then I believe someone should give you a honest opinion so you know what needs improvement.

I love arrogance!  When it falls, it falls hard and usually destroys itself.  'tis a shame when it shows itself in such callow youth, but with some hard work, a callow youth can become more humble.

Nero is the "Arbiter of Beauty" on these boards.  I believe that anyone aspiring to that position should ask Nero first.

I never said improvement wasn't a good thing. I think improvement is just fine. It says so in my last post. But putting someone down isn't a good method to encourage someone to improve (it's called negative reinforcement, and it doesn't work).

And I never said just thinking your female is the all-of-be-all, either. It's a major part, however. Everything is just built on top of that. Of course there is social things, and blah, blah, blah.

And, by the way, negative reinforcement never helps anyone. Being an a$$hole and pretending that you are the bag of chips and all that, come to save us poor souls that look just like men, isn't going to get you far. (There's a difference between being constructive and helpful, and being just an a$$hole about things, which you come across as).

And oh, boo-hoo, you called me a man. Oh no! I don't think I'll got to the club tonight, but instead I'll just stay at home and hide because someone called me a guy.

That's nice that just based on a stupid picture you know so much about me and everyone else in here. But honestly, I don't care. You're some person on the Internet. You don't know me in real life. You don't see me day-to-day. So, who are you to judge?

Well-spoken, Natalie!  I love your attitude!  I am *me* and pits on whoever doesn't like it.  Your postings make sense and sometimes I wish that I thought of them first.

It's wise for one to remember whose toes they stepped on today because they might meet them next week and be in no position for retaliation.

You are also a kind woman, especially for telling a newbie to stop the bad-mouthing and put the judge's robes away, especially for such a young newbie.  Life goes better for those who go with the flow, and who find out who they really are and be the best person they can be.  In our case we have found the woman we are and now we're being the best her that we can be.

For those who like limericks, I leave you with one that has been attributed to Abraham Lincoln:

As to looks, I know I'm no star.
There are others more pretty by far.
But my face, I don't mind it, because I'm behind it.
It's the people in front that I jar! 

LMAO!!!!!

I am not the same person that started 7 years ago, same body but I see things from a different perspective, and an awakening that will continue to evolve each day until I depart from this world.     

But there are some persons on the Internet that can actually sense another's feelings. If people would only get smart and think how another may react to a certain not-so-positive comment. I have noticed one thing that a TS message board has in common with an empaths or sensitives message board and that is the sensitivities to positive and negative energy. The biggest problem in a TS message board is those that still react to things through their old selves.   

Cindy

Enjoy yourself at the club, Natalie!

Wing Walker
Flying Level and Above this Weather

May I ask, what is "arrogance" as you define it? How am I arrogant?(according to you)

if their is arrogance in me I'd like to improve it.  I always try to look deep down into a person. I never try to judge based on stereotypes. I always try my best to treat ppl equally and gave them a chance- but I can't always promise this as I'm not a robot. By the way, i don't mean to be smart or anything but why are you connecting arrogance and youth? I think their are many narrow-minded elders, I don't think it's exactly youths.

[Kelli]

[/quote]

May I ask, what is "arrogance" as you define it? How am I arrogant?(according to you)

if their is arrogance in me I'd like to improve it.  I always try to look deep down into a person. I never try to judge based on stereotypes. I always try my best to treat ppl equally and gave them a chance- but I can't always promise this as I'm not a robot. By the way, i don't mean to be smart or anything but why are you connecting arrogance and youth? I think their are many narrow-minded elders, I don't think it's exactly youths.
[/quote]

Younger people generally think they know everything.

And while you didn't single out one specific person, you essentially said that "a bunch of you still look like men." That's not a direct quote. I feel that it would be helpful to be aware of the sensitivities in the area you're venturing. You have to remember, we spend YEARS, tears, etc etc changing ourselves. THEN, to have someone come along and point out that "a bunch of you still look like men" is offensive. You don't understand that because you haven't spend any time or energy transitioning. Those of us who have are more sensative to things like that.

Arrogance can be looked at as a lack of humility or being humble. Would you walk into a room full of TS's and go "Some of you look really good, some of you look like sh*t." WITHOUT ANYONE ASKING. You came across as having an attitude of "eww, I hope I don't look like some of THOSE people."


I think your intentions were good, but the way you worded things and came across struck some nerves. Mine being one of them since I'm in your age bracket (I'm 22).

[Rachael]

i dont htink her comments were meant to offend, im certainly not...
tho theres a big trend in the transcommunity to not accept unpassability exists... its 'offensive' to tell someone they look male when presenting female. sadly the applied hear no evil, see no evil method doesnt really work...
R

[Wing Walker]

Quote from Tanya1

May I ask, what is "arrogance" as you define it? How am I arrogant?(according to you)

if their is arrogance in me I'd like to improve it.  I always try to look deep down into a person. I never try to judge based on stereotypes. I always try my best to treat ppl equally and gave them a chance- but I can't always promise this as I'm not a robot. By the way, i don't mean to be smart or anything but why are you connecting arrogance and youth? I think their are many narrow-minded elders, I don't think it's exactly youths.

Arrogance is readily detected in the way a person writes, especially if a person sets themselves above others and believes that others cannot live, or will live much better, after having that person's advice and comments, in this case about their appearance.

Arrogance is not for the young only, although that is frequently when it starts.  Someone in their callow, inexperienced youth decides that they will tell everyone the truth as *they* see it, without any regard for the feelings of the person for whom they feel the compulsion to give advice or make a comment.

It is best to catch arrogance in youth and stop it before it becomes an unremovable part of the maturing personality.

Sometimes a person will ask how they can improve their arrogance.  There is really no need to work to improve it.  It grows insidiously and does so without any conscious effort to be improved.

Arrogance is not the sole province of youth but that's most often where it starts.

Wing Walker

[Keira]

While I would never set myself to be an arbitrer of passability, since I don't really care either way since its not my life, I do think that there is a big taboo about at least stating our honest opinion about a person's passability (its arrogant if we state that this opinion is universal; it may well be if nobody ever tells a person the truth, or she's not ready to accept it).

One thing that's certain. What's seen as "looking like men" to us, may be perceived differently by non trans, especially in outside trans hotspots. There, it may simply be seen as being unattractive. Many women with "manly" traits exist and they are seen as not attractive, but still women.

[Ms Bev]

...............if their is arrogance in me I'd like to improve it

Totally unnecessary, no improvement needed.

Isn't it time to shut this thread down??.........Anyone??



Bev

[Rachael]

we cant do that... half the forum would be homeless till another  topic can be detailed into a slanging match  comes along... we cant have that...
R