Here I go again :-(

[theqnoumenon]

I'm so sorry about what happened with this. I simply can't understand why people is so frightened and embarrassed with trans people, it's so easy just to accept the other just as they truly are and feel. I suppose patterns and gender roles are powerful...

It seems it's going to be a tough time, but it's precisely a matter of time and you'll end being what you want, no one can tell you what to be or what to feel, and you have our support for this!

Hugs,
Q.

[JeanetteLW]

Thanks Liz and Q,

  Where my daughter apparently put the matter into the hands of God and has asked for prayers as is her choice, I decided to not dwell on it and let it play out as it will. My distress over it does me no good at all so I will move on
to my next challenge.

Hugs,
   Jeanette

[Janes Groove]

Thanks Liz and Q,

  Where my daughter apparently put the matter into the hands of God and has asked for prayers as is her choice, I decided to not dwell on it and let it play out as it will. My distress over it does me no good at all so I will move on
to my next challenge.

Hugs,
   Jeanette

I assume you have been to AA for your struggle with alcoholism.  As an alcoholic you may be aware that in AA we have a saying (well a whole bunch of sayings actually, like one day at a time, for example) that goes: We are as sick as our secrets.  We use these sayings to keep us sober.  For me I relate that saying to my really, really big secret (well, used to be a secret, not so much anymore).  AA is not just a way of staying sober but is also a spiritual path to the God of our understanding.  It sounds like you have made an amends with your daughter (Step 8 ) since you told her you know you have disappointed her in the past. Perhaps its time to let her know that you have your own spirituality. That you accept her religion/spirituality and that you ask her to extend to you the same understanding.  Maybe let her know that accepting your transgender nature is your way of making a final amends. To yourself. 

[p]

I have been following your story, Jeannette, and it's very troubling what your daughter posted about your grandkids' reactions. It's so evident from your posts here that you love your "monskers!" I am 99% sure that whatever sadness/devastation the younger kids are feeling right now has to do with the way things were presented to them. They will grow up in a world more tolerant of trans people than at any other point in history--so don't lose hope for them. Even your daughter and her husband could come around. This is all still very fresh to them. Keeping you in my thoughts, Jeanette. 

[JeanetteLW]

I assume you have been to AA for your struggle with alcoholism.  As an alcoholic you may be aware that in AA we have a saying (well a whole bunch of sayings actually, like one day at a time, for example) that goes: We are as sick as our secrets.  We use these sayings to keep us sober.  For me I relate that saying to my really, really big secret (well, used to be a secret, not so much anymore).  AA is not just a way of staying sober but is also a spiritual path to the God of our understanding.  It sounds like you have made an amends with your daughter (Step 8 ) since you told her you know you have disappointed her in the past. Perhaps its time to let her know that you have your own spirituality. That you accept her religion/spirituality and that you ask her to extend to you the same understanding.  Maybe let her know that accepting your transgender nature is your way of making a final amends. To yourself.

   Yes Jane, AA gives us a lot of saying and tools to use in recovery and in life. I made my amends to my daughter years ago but as you probably suspect it was incomplete. With this last conversation I feel I have rectified that short coming. My daughter is fully aware of my personal belief regarding spirituality and how it differs from hers.
  I think I have reached that point where another of those sayings apply, "Let go, let God"

  Hugs for you Jane, And thanks too
   Jeanette

[JeanetteLW]

I have been following your story, Jeannette, and it's very troubling what your daughter posted about your grandkids' reactions. It's so evident from your posts here that you love your "monskers!" I am 99% sure that whatever sadness/devastation the younger kids are feeling right now has to do with the way things were presented to them. They will grow up in a world more tolerant of trans people than at any other point in history--so don't lose hope for them. Even your daughter and her husband could come around. This is all still very fresh to them. Keeping you in my thoughts, Jeanette. 

  Thank you p,

  Yes, I love my monskers  and my daughter and her husband very much. But I am resolved not to argue, fight, or otherwise interfere with however they decide to cope with me being trans. That will be there choice and I will respect it.  I will be here if she chooses to reach out.

  Hugs,
    Jeanette

[jentay1367]

     Just a suggestion of course, but you might write a letter to your daughter with all your thoughts organized and well thought out, so at the very least she's clear on A. your love for her, b. your resolve regarding your own life and C. Hopes for the future of your relationship with her and the "Monskers".
      It's sometimes a help if everyone knows where each other stands. Writing things makes it a little more real and lends you the opportunity to be more succinct and pointed.
    She may then be prompted to write you as well, and share things she may not otherwise divulge in a face to face as well as without Scott being present. He may motivate some of her reaction. Who can know.
    Anyway, I think you're handling everything in a very calm and mature manner. It's the best you can do.  Hoping it all falls together for you!

[JeanetteLW]

     Just a suggestion of course, but you might write a letter to your daughter with all your thoughts organized and well thought out,...
    She may then be prompted to write you as well, and share things she may not otherwise divulge in a face to face as well as without Scott being present. He may motivate some of her reaction. Who can know.
    Anyway, I think you're handling everything in a very calm and mature manner. It's the best you can do.  Hoping it all falls together for you!

   Thank you Jen,

    I will think about the letter but I am not much on writing.  As for Scott influencing her goes I think Scott was the more reasonable and nonjudgmental of the two about it. My daughter was the one that spoke her mind and was pretty clear in conveying what she thought. I do think Scott agreed with what she said though. What they discussed about it after I left I of course have no idea.

  "handling everything in a very calm and mature manner."?  You must have missed my first posts on this subject. But yes I have calmed down and gained control. At least for now.

   I don't have to like it, to try to accept it.

Thanks again Jen. Hugs for you and thanks for the support.
   Jeanette.

[LizK]

     
   ....I don't have to like it, to try to accept it.....


   Jeanette.

Unfortunately for the moment you are really left with very little option. I know with my parents when it was difficult, but no matter how angry they made me I kept going back to them leaving the door of communication open as I am sure you have...

when it came down to the nitty gritty it was about a perception of how I would look and sound that kept my father at a distance....when he thought about me and transition he thought about a drag queen...once someone put him right on this then it blew his whole bigotry thing to bits...

I don't know if this kind of thing may happen with your daughter but patience is all we have when they are unreasonable,

Liz

[Dena]

You are a reasonable good poster on the forum however if you want, you can work out a draft and run it by the members. The members are often helpful polishing up a letter by providing suggestions. If your not sure where to start, outline what the family already knows and maybe we can provide facts you may have overlooked.

[JeanetteLW]

Thank you Liz for the letter idea and Dena for the proof reading offer.

  Truth be told I do not think it would do any good. If there is one thing my daughter inherited from me it is her stubbornness. She has it in her head that Dad is broke an only God can fix him. She won't rub my face in it but that is her stand and she isn't about to give it up. She also knows that Dad has rejected her concept of God and is not likely to change his attitude either. It will not however stop her from praying for my salvation. This differing view has been a long standing stalemate between us since we reestablished  our relationship.
   Prior to my revelation the issue was a low key agreement to disagree as only my everlasting soul was at stake. What I have done by telling her I am trans is escalated the issue to a much higher level and now it affects her children in what she obviously believes is a negative way. Hence her words; "My heart is breaking for my children who are confused and sad and broken-hearted over devastating news they just received".
   No, I think a letter from me will only exacerbate the situation more.
   
   Jeanette

[HappyMoni]

Jeanette,
   I have been reading here, but haven't posted because I didn't want to say the wrong thing when it comes to a difficult family situation. You must handle it as you think  best. I would like to offer an impression that I have. Dismiss it if you want and please don't take offense. I feel like I see your situation as the old movie where the main character is standing trial for something, but won't offer a defense. They have done nothing wrong, but either they feel guilty about the situation or they are afraid they will hurt a loved one by defending them self. I, as the viewer, keep rooting for that main character to tell their story. I don't know if it would help to write that letter, it might not. Maybe it isn't the right time. I do think that it would be a shame if the only story out there is one devoid of factual information. One that doesn't tell how hard you have tried to run from being trans. One that doesn't  treat you as a human being. I also wonder if you don't defend yourself and you show so much guilt and remorse, that it will convince her that she is right.
   Well no offense intended, I just thought it might be a way to look at it.
Moni

[JeanetteLW]

Jeanette,
   I have been reading here, but haven't posted because I didn't want to say the wrong thing when it comes to a difficult family situation. You must handle it as you think  best. I would like to offer an impression that I have. Dismiss it if you want and please don't take offense. I feel like I see your situation as the old movie where the main character is standing trial for something, but won't offer a defense. They have done nothing wrong, but either they feel guilty about the situation or they are afraid they will hurt a loved one by defending them self. I, as the viewer, keep rooting for that main character to tell their story. I don't know if it would help to write that letter, it might not. Maybe it isn't the right time. I do think that it would be a shame if the only story out there is one devoid of factual information. One that doesn't tell how hard you have tried to run from being trans. One that doesn't  treat you as a human being. I also wonder if you don't defend yourself and you show so much guilt and remorse, that it will convince her that she is right.
   Well no offense intended, I just thought it might be a way to look at it.
Moni

Hi Moni And I welcome your comments as I do the others that have tried to help here. This site and all of you in it that strive to help myself and others here have been of great help to me many times and in many ways.
  I thank you for your observations and thoughts on this situation too.
  I've seen those old movies and they usually have happy endings but this isn't Hollywood. It probably does look like I am giving up without a defense but it is a battle I cannot win. I stated my case to her, told her how I feel and explained that I believe my being trans is the reasons behind my lifelong crossdressing, told her of wishing I was born a girl and my envy of my sisters for being girls and getting to do the things I wanted to be able to do. I told her the "why" of why I do not want presents at Christmas. It comes from year after year of never getting what I wanted for gifts and knowing I'd never get them because I was born a boy. And having to watch my 5 sisters opening the gifts I wanted but couldn't have. I told her how I bought and purged female clothing and makeup again and again. I told her of the guilt and shame I felt for being a pervert. Told of of researching in the libraries to find out what was wrong with me. I told her how I swore off dressing uncountable times only to return in shame because I could not stop. I told her how I feel like a failure as a husband, a father, and a man.
   I told her how I didn't have to think twice about taking my HRT meds when I obtained them.  About how I do not feel I am wrong for doing them. I told her about going to a psychiatrist when I have always disdained them and how being diagnosed with gender dysphoria actually pleased me. I told her I was now seeing a gender therapist. I told her again I thought I was doing what was right for me.
  There was my defense, my best shot at getting her acceptance. It  did me no good.
  I lost the battle on two unbeatable fronts.
    1. Her religious beliefs By that I mean she told me she believes there was something wrong or missing in my life when I was a child and only by coming to believe in the God of her understanding will I be made whole again.  Okay it might not be quite that dramatic but it's not far off.
    2. Have your heard of ACA or ACOA? It is a support group for "Adult children of Alcoholic/ dysfunction families"  she is or was a member. It is a 12 step program similar to AA with the basic premise that they were damaged by their family. Basically they believe their problems are not of the doing but rather because of their home life at the hands of their alcoholic family member ot the dysfunctional family life. In her case er problems she had were my fault. Though we only discussed things one or twice that is how she it came across. I do not think she has ever forgiven me for my part in ruining her life and here I go doing again.

  So Moni, I truly can see where you could think i am not mounting a defense. Not fighting back. But I did give it my best effort and I lost. Pressing the issue more isn't going to help anything. I can leave it up to her and hope for a change of heart. I cannot push her into thinking differently. She will have to do that for herself.
  What I can do is be here for her if she chooses to reach out again. I am sure she is hurting once again.

  I am too.

Hugs,
   Jeanette

[Shy]

Every bird must fly the nest and make their own way in life eventually. Unfortunately in many peoples eyes we are the ugly ducklings but that doesn't stop us turning into very fine swans indeed. Give it time Jeanette, it's been a lot for everyone to take in.

Peace and love and all that good stuff

Shy.

[JeanetteLW]

  I decided to participate in a survey today. Towards the end they wanted to collect some demographic data as many do. The did not ask what gender I was, rather they asked what gender I identified with? I promptly answer female. Other questions probed a little further.  My answers indicated I was transgender, considered myself heterosexual and transgender male to female.
  I know I have said the same thing here and to my doctors but it still felt a little strange doing so on a survey. Sort of like I was putting it in writing so to speak, confirming it's truth. I know it's silly but it did feel weird. Several months ago I would have been denying it.

   Jeanette

[HappyMoni]

Hi Moni And I welcome your comments as I do the others that have tried to help here. This site and all of you in it that strive to help myself and others here have been of great help to me many times and in many ways.
  I thank you for your observations and thoughts on this situation too.
  I've seen those old movies and they usually have happy endings but this isn't Hollywood. It probably does look like I am giving up without a defense but it is a battle I cannot win. I stated my case to her, told her how I feel and explained that I believe my being trans is the reasons behind my lifelong crossdressing, told her of wishing I was born a girl and my envy of my sisters for being girls and getting to do the things I wanted to be able to do. I told her the "why" of why I do not want presents at Christmas. It comes from year after year of never getting what I wanted for gifts and knowing I'd never get them because I was born a boy. And having to watch my 5 sisters opening the gifts I wanted but couldn't have. I told her how I bought and purged female clothing and makeup again and again. I told her of the guilt and shame I felt for being a pervert. Told of of researching in the libraries to find out what was wrong with me. I told her how I swore off dressing uncountable times only to return in shame because I could not stop. I told her how I feel like a failure as a husband, a father, and a man.
   I told her how I didn't have to think twice about taking my HRT meds when I obtained them.  About how I do not feel I am wrong for doing them. I told her about going to a psychiatrist when I have always disdained them and how being diagnosed with gender dysphoria actually pleased me. I told her I was now seeing a gender therapist. I told her again I thought I was doing what was right for me.
  There was my defense, my best shot at getting her acceptance. It  did me no good.
  I lost the battle on two unbeatable fronts.
    1. Her religious beliefs By that I mean she told me she believes there was something wrong or missing in my life when I was a child and only by coming to believe in the God of her understanding will I be made whole again.  Okay it might not be quite that dramatic but it's not far off.
    2. Have your heard of ACA or ACOA? It is a support group for "Adult children of Alcoholic/ dysfunction families"  she is or was a member. It is a 12 step program similar to AA with the basic premise that they were damaged by their family. Basically they believe their problems are not of the doing but rather because of their home life at the hands of their alcoholic family member ot the dysfunctional family life. In her case er problems she had were my fault. Though we only discussed things one or twice that is how she it came across. I do not think she has ever forgiven me for my part in ruining her life and here I go doing again.

  So Moni, I truly can see where you could think i am not mounting a defense. Not fighting back. But I did give it my best effort and I lost. Pressing the issue more isn't going to help anything. I can leave it up to her and hope for a change of heart. I cannot push her into thinking differently. She will have to do that for herself.
  What I can do is be here for her if she chooses to reach out again. I am sure she is hurting once again.

  I am too.

Hugs,
   Jeanette

Jeanette,
   I know someone who has OCD very very badly. They struggled with it for years. They also had a strained relationship with their close relatives. Somehow the relatives ended up with all the blame for her OCD. They were not perfect, but what relative or parent is? Sometimes the child has to realize they are now an adult and take the responsibility on themselves. It is part of maturity and moving on. You may have done things to feel guilty for. I certainly did as a parent. I had so much anger, and I regret every second. Your daughter was at a decent place with  you a month ago. If she had to do some work to get to that place, maybe she is capable of finding her way back again. I disagree with you a little though. If she has such a hard time with you being transgender, it was not you who made the situation hard, she was more a victim of the religion or ACA teaching. My opinion.
   I think, from what you wrote, that you did state your case well. I still think it could make her feel justified in her attitude if you act like you are doing her a great disservice now. Either it is okay to be trans or it is not. You are not doing anything wrong. It may seem like a subtle difference, but being sorry she is stressed is very different from, "I ruined your life because I am trans." I personally think you are awesome and I really hope she comes to her senses.
Moni

[JeanetteLW]

  I disagree with you a little though. If she has such a hard time with you being transgender, it was not you who made the situation hard, she was more a victim of the religion or ACA teaching.

   Perhaps Moni I wasn't very clear I do not feel apologetic in this. I feel defeated in my efforts with her because of her religious stance and her ACA doctrine of assigning fault for her problems elsewhere. In AA one accepts responsibility for one's own actions and makes amends to those you harmed by them. Forgiveness from those you make amends to is not required  that is up to them,  your attempt to make the amends is what is important. Further you are not responsible for the actions of anyone else.
  I did my part by telling her about myself. She has chosen not to accept it. It saddened, no it hurt me. But I cannot compel her to do otherwise. I was upset but I'm not now and I am not angry, nor do I feel guilty. I will be here if and when she chooses to reach out. Remember I have not  heard from them since I came home. They could very well still be working on a decision.
   In any case I am trans. I cannot stop that any more than I could stop crossdressing all these years.
  I'm okay with it, Moni really.
Hugs
   Jeanette

 
Moni

[HappyMoni]

Jeanette,
   Sorry if I misunderstood. I get more of a sense of your strength with each post I read. You have a great attitude in a difficult situation.
Moni

[JeanetteLW]

Jeanette,
   Sorry if I misunderstood. I get more of a sense of your strength with each post I read. You have a great attitude in a difficult situation.
Moni

  My dear Moni,

    I think you may have had help. I was certainly upset, distraught and feeling sorry for myself over my daughter's response. I could very well have given that impression that I felt it was all my fault. But it could also been in the way I was trying to explain ACA. or even in my pm to her.  But no I am not going to wallow in self pity or take responsibility for her response. I was, no am not wrong for being trans , accepting it finally and getting help to deal with it.

  Don't worry Moni, I still luvs ya! ((((HUG))))  LOL

Jeanette

[HappyMoni]

Jeanette,
   Hugs, oh my yes! I am proud of you Girl, you are owning it.
Moni