NO MEN IN THE LADIES LOCKER-ROOMS:

[Rachael]

The womens room is for women, some of this 'progressiveness' contains too many loopholes, if a person is legally a woman, or is legally BECOMING a woman. they can use the WOMENS room, and vice versa with men. Untill they are legally becoming, or are, then stay out!
im all for neutral bathrooms too, but NOT just unisex loos... i like my quiet private space away from men... 'self identify' is too open, and yes, women do comit sex crimes, but as nero said, men are much more likely. and the womens room isnt just a loo, its a refuge from males!
if your Transexual, you can get a letter from your refering doctor to say your trans.... thats enough. but tvs and cds and males 'identifying' as female, and presenting male (this could happen with your progressiveness) im not comfortable sharing the restroom with.
Society can only get so progressive before anarchy breaks out. society has rules for a reason!

Melissa: you must hang out in some uber progressive circles, because all the women i know arent progressive when it comes to THIER rights and private spaces.
R

[Keira]

Besides, as I said, its not like crossdressers
have to pee in the road, in Montreal
at least, there's plenty of unisex bathroom
(usually its a whole room and its for the handicaped
as well).

Saying poor poor crossdressers when there are
obvious options is a bit strange. BTW, how
many cross dressers really go into women's room,
haven't seen any obvious ones in 15 months...
And believe me, they are VERY EASY to spot.

Of course, there are those women who are so
uncomfortable in their own skin that they
will call the police on a butch lesbian in the
room. Though, I don't care how butch they are,
they are obviously female to me... But I digress,
that's an issue for the over 50 mainly.

As for the androgyne, well since they identify with
neither man or woman, they'd have trouble in
either restrooms wouldn't they!!
So I'm sure they'll be glad to use the unisex restrooms
which as I said are plentiful in my neck of the wood.

[Nero]

I agree with Kate -  only those diagnosed as transsexual AND undergoing hormone therapy should ever be permitted in women's space.

When I transitioned, my therapist required one year full time rlt before I could even qualify for hrt. By these above standards I guess I was using the bathroom illegally all that time.

What about non-op, non-hrt mtfs? What about transgenderists? Full time crossdressers? Do they have to use the mens room? Who is going to protect our sisters who get beat up or killed in the mens room?

y2g

I don't know. I wish unisex restrooms were more prevalent. Thing is, if it were across the board that anyone dressed as a woman had legal access to the Ladies' room, the pervs would come out of the woodwork.

[barbie]

In my case, as a crossdresser,  no problem so far in women's, but in men's, some times people there are surprised or apologize to me to check again whether they are in a 'correct' room. Even in my men's dress, some men there are perplexed simply because of my long hair. It is always a thorny question whether I use men's or women's. But I am sure women's are always cleaner than men's.

What I just want is not to surprise people in the bathroom.

Barbie~~

[Sheila]

I guess we should call out the restroom police. There will be an officer at every door, checking ID. You had better have the right ID, that includes the mens room too. The picture should be a new one, maybe have one taken once a month. If you don't then it is out to the bushes for you. You will not enter this establishments potty room without a current ID. They should have added that into the Real ID Act. You should not have a penis in the ladies locker rooms and you shouldn't have a vagina in the mens locker rooms. That is all that matters.
Sheila

[Rachael]

no, thats taking words out of peoples mouths... you have to be inclusive, AND realistic. some will be offended, but maintaining the majority balance is important. Monthly is daft, when you change your visual image DRASTICALLY. then you SHOULD update it, its only sensible, id for restrooms? well lets not go that far... women in the womens room, men in the mens, its not a hard concept...
R

[Keira]

Sheila, your being desingenious.
With a spurious straw argument.

A crossdresseer (especially those I've seen)
should not go into women's restroom.
Its called respect for how others feel.
You want them to do the policing and
have to call the mall security if they feel
uncomfortable. Why should the onus on them
as an average representative of society
and not the others.

[melissa90299]

I think you guys finally convinced me. I don't want anyone with a penis in my women's only safe space. I feel my safety is threatened.

Post-ops or cisgendered women only.

[Rachael]

theres only one biggoted post in this thread. and its the one above mine....

Melissa: your attitude is actually expected... and one that is sadly common in the 'postops are better than preops' ->-bleeped-<- hierarchy that laughingly exists....
i wont resort to personal attacks. but that attitude suggests that preops arnt women... even though thier legally female, or medically qualify... please prove me wrong. but in doing so, your invalidate your own statement. have fun
R

[Nero]

I think you guys finally convinced me. I don't want anyone with a penis in my women's only safe space. I feel my safety is threatened.

Post-ops or cisgendered women only.

Firstly, a pre-op transwoman is no more inclined to harm another woman as any woman is, gg or not.

Secondly, a penis on HRT is virtually harmless, is it not?

[Rachael]

oh no nero, its not the penis, thats just the warning signal... its the MAN behind the penis that intends to harm women... but if you cut a mans penis of, hes a woman then... and a penisless male is harmless to women.... [/flaming sarcasm]

R

[alice_c]

Secondly, a penis on HRT is virtually harmless, is it not?

Based on what mine is like, yes.

[Steph]

theres only one biggoted post in this thread. and its the one above mine....

Melissa: your attitude is actually expected... and one that is sadly common in the 'postops are better than preops' ->-bleeped-<- hierarchy that laughingly exists....
i wont resort to personal attacks. but that attitude suggests that preops arnt women... even though thier legally female, or medically qualify... please prove me wrong. but in doing so, your invalidate your own statement. have fun
R

I have to agree Rachael.  We nee to remember that trans-men and trans-women are men or women as the case maybe.  The word "trans" simply indicates that they are in the process of transition, therefore would be included in the term "Men" or "Women".  The words "Post" and "Pre" simply indicate how far along they are in transition and has no bearing on their status as women or men.

By definition a male cross-dresser is still a man and not included in the term "Woman".  Likewise and a female cross-dresser is still a woman, therefore should not be included in the term "Men".

So it seems to me.

Steph

[Nero]

oh no nero, its not the penis, thats just the warning signal... its the MAN behind the penis that intends to harm women... but if you cut a mans penis of, hes a woman then... and a penisless male is harmless to women.... [/flaming sarcasm]

R

I know that. I was just replying to the 'penis in the restroom' statement.

[tinkerbell]

The word "trans" simply indicates that they are in the process of transition, therefore would be included in the term "Men" or "Women".  The words "Post" and "Pre" simply indicate how far along they are in transition and has no bearing on their status as women or men.


Steph

We have to frame this statement in gold and diamonds and post it all over the site.  I love it.  Well said, Steph!

tink

[Rachael]

yeah, steph has it... also says a lot about the percived hierarchy in trans communities of post ops being better than preops... melissa's post is further evidence of trans on trans biggotry...
R

[Sheila]

How does anyone know? Why should anyone care?
Sheila

[Hazumu]

I've seen it too many times -- especially when I was on active duty in the military.

Rather than defining the common enemy, banding together, and motivating all the team members towards the goal, groups would devolve into in-fighting, searching for and ejecting those team members that had perceived weakness or otherwise didn't measure up to some dumb-ass ideal.

A waste of resources -- time being one of them.

We transgender are under attack from fundamentalists in politics, in religion, and even in the gay and the lesbian communities.  And yet some of us squander what little resources we have singing the ->-bleeped-<--er Than Thou song at the drop of a hat.

We're gonna get kicked again in the ENDA.  I see that one coming unless we as a community can drop the BS and get our [stuff] together.

Karen

[Sheila]

Karen,
  You are so right. This is how I lost my battle for ordinance change in my city. Believe it or not, I was the one who was saying only transexuals can use the restrooms and not crossdressers. I was saying what Steph and all the others were saying and was told I was wrong and that the mayor said that if the trans community can not agree on this then we will table it for more education.
   There are too many unanswered questions for me to answer and so I quit it. I'm female and no one bothers me. I live my life the way it should have been and I really don't care what the others do. I got into this conversation to find out if I was right or not. I used some of what others said about me. I had a whole group of them who were against me, and they were talking with Mara Kieslings group and another group from Washington DC. I was by myself and I don't have a college education and all of the others were college grads.
   I have read all the posts, has anyone read my previous posts.
Sheila

[tinkerbell]

I think we need a break from this thread so....

The Ladie's room

tink