Saw an unsuccessful transwoman and it scared me, a lot

[Cassi]

Cis women aren't afraid of being clocked. Why?  The thought doesn't even occur.

Do not be afraid of trans women.

You look out of the kitchen window and you shake your head and say low,
"If I could believe that stuff, I'd say that woman has a halo, "
And I look out and say, "Yeah, she's really blonde,"
And then I go outside to join the others -- I am the others!

Oh, and that's not easy, I don't know what you saw, I want somebody who sees me.
I will not be afraid of women, I will not be afraid of women.

-- Dar Williams, "As Cool As I Am"

Vanity says the Preacher!

[Karen_A]

It's one thing to fear being seen as a freak, and yes, that's legitimately transphobic.

Actually the is a realistic concern (although less so than it once was)... More than a few 'cisgendered' people see us as freaks... and teh consequences of THAT is the concern.

When I was a kid with my mother driving through NYC we would sometime see obvious T*'s on the street and my mother would say things like "You name it, and I'll kill it".

These days there is a lot more acceptance, but being obviously readable will make it harder to get many types of jobs in many places and strongly affect one's social life so there can be a lot more consequence than the discomfort being misgendered causes internally. Humans are social animals and innately want to be accepted.

I don't pass 100% (can't because of build) but I live in a relatively accepting area...

As for being around other's less passable... I know that can get one read ... I had a friend during transition that passed less well than I did... and there was an incident where I very obviously did get read because of her proximity...

Early on we were going to the movies and she drove. I got out of the car before she parked so she arrive a little after I did at the theater... I had some people pass by me the had no reaction... then they saw her walking down this way... After that very obviously turned around to look back at me.

That did not stop me from going places with her. While I prefer not being seen as T*, as I was not stealth and knew I likely could never be, I did not my let discomfort stop me from spending the with a very nice and intelligent person.

BTW in general from what I've seen in the 3D community, people of similar passibility are more likely to hang out together than those  that differ significantly in that area. That likely has a lot do to with commonality of experience.

- karen

[Miss Clara]

It's an unfortunate reality, that people who don't fit the binary gender model of society are likely to experience disapproval and discrimination of one sort or another.  That's not to say that gender nonconforming individuals can't be happy.  We find ways of making the necessary adjustments in order to survive.  We usually deal with the unwelcome attitudes and reactions of others through avoidance.  Remaining in the closet is an effective though dissatisfying avoidance behavior.  Finding trans-friendly places to live and work is another.  For the more fortunate among us, passing as our preferred gender plus nondisclosure is the ultimate avoidance strategy.  But even that can extract a heavy price.  No matter our particular circumstances, in time we learn to shake off the hurtful behavior of the intolerant among us, and construct defenses to protect ourselves as best we can.  It's part of the process of gender transitioning.  No one said it would be easy.

[Sonja]

The language policing here is outstanding. If the OP feels that passing as gender typical woman is a requirement for her successful transition, that's her definition of what a successful transition is to her and nobody should be trying to change it just because it doesn't fit your own ideals. Everybody has their own mind image of what a successful transition is, to some it's being out and proud, to others is to be  a passing, deep stealth woman and then there's all the shades in between. I agree her choice of words was poor and it did sound a bit condescending at times, but fact is, society as whole judges Trans people as group much more harshly than she ever did in her comments.

People don't like that she defined a successful transition as living as a passing woman, but then came here saying transition is about inner peace and shoving those ideas down her throat. It really is not like you are being much better, you just trying to substitue one idea for another which you find to be better. And if you really are secure about your transition as a whole, then you don't need to attack someone's ideals about their own.

Exactly this.

You want the world to be inclusive, but some of you can't even do that to other people here.

Sonja.

[Donna]

I'm 21 days full fem. am I miss gendered- of course I am.
Have I been properly gendered- yes. Have I been with people that have known me for years and not recognize me- yes.
Am I perfect- HELL NO
That being said we all have our own vision and I for one really don't give a rats ass what others may say or think. I was 60 years not being me and 50 years with no emotions and major sexual issues from abuse.
I can't and won't let anyone determine the rest of my life and due to my past I can't and won't judge others for how they run their lives. If they pass or not it's no concern of mine as long as they feel good in themselves. If I'm outed so what. It will happen lots, I know some people's dysphoria make them need to be or feel perfect and that's their vision.
The start of this tread was IMHO a poorly worded comment but I doubt it was meant to be hurtful. We needed to clarify and understand but to rip and tear at someone makes us worse than the original comment. We needed to comment positively and teach or educate or take the time to learn where the person was coming from.
Not trying to be offensive to anyone or harmful. Just my feelings

[Cassi]

Exactly this.

You want the world to be inclusive, but some of you can't even do that to other people here.

Sonja.

I've missed you Sonja!  Wear ya bean?

[Shy]

Sometimes we have to challenge our fears, sometimes openly, no matter how difficult, so we can all get to understand them.
Not a singe one of us is perfect, not a single one of us knows how to successfully transition or has all the answers. All we can do is support each other, learn from each other in the hope of becoming better, more rounded people.
There is beauty in everyone, even me, especially you.

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

[SadieBlake]

Sometimes we have to challenge our fears, sometimes openly, no matter how difficult, so we can all get to understand them.

Not a singe one of us is perfect, not a single one of us knows how to successfully transition or has all the answers.

All we can do is support each other, learn from each other in the hope of becoming better, more rounded people.
There is beauty in everyone, even me, especially you.

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

Or each of us is exactly perfect and ultimately we are the only ones who know how we as individuals need to transition.

Peace and Love back to ya,

Sadie :-)

[softbutchharley]

.
Also to say "unsuccessful transwoman" is kinda hurtful. Like at what point is she successful? As long as she's happy, shes successful, regardless of how she looks. When i came out i always said, "Id rather be an ugly woman than the sexiest man" so maybe shes happy with what shes achieved? Or maybe she Just started like you? OR maybe she IS a man in drag? Just a drag queen? Also could've been one of those "organic transwomen" who dont take HRT (only heard of one of them around here). Best advice i can give is to not compare yourself to others hun, unless its to better/improve yourself. Dont put yourself down based on others looks or even their opinions. You're strong af just for getting this far. & you have a long way to go hun, trust me, youll see many good changes sooner than later. Just work on what you Can control til then;)  ♡♡♡

Well said Al;lie Bee. ditto ...... I feel you on this tho. I still to this day do not like to go to drag shows or be around TV's and drag stuff. I am still insecure in my core, tho I try to hide it and rise above it. I do not want to be clocked ever again and the instances these days usually only occur on the phone cuz of severe testosterone poisoning as a child  lol
I feel you, but I have to get past it. Matter of fact my partner and I are going to drag show during Pride Week in Pensacola this year. I'm gonna do it cuz it's fun and I like stuffing dollars on the girls, and my partner has fun doing same, and it will be a good thing for me regarding this very issue..
Enjoy your week.

[Paige]

Cis women aren't afraid of being clocked. Why?  The thought doesn't even occur.

Hi Sophia,

I'm curious about your statement.  There are cis-women with very masculine features that get accused of being trans.  I would suspect some have a fear of being mistakenly clocked.  I would be interested if anyone has ever met a cis-women who has had this happen to them and worries about this sort of situation.

Take care,
Paige


   

[Sophia Sage]

Hi Sophia,

I'm curious about your statement.  There are cis-women with very masculine features that get accused of being trans.  I would suspect some have a fear of being mistakenly clocked.  I would be interested if anyone has ever met a cis-women who has had this happen to them and worries about this sort of situation.

Mmm, good point.  I'm sure there a few out there.  I wonder to what extent if any they feel gender dysphoria about the situation.

In conversations I've had with butch dykes, many years ago, a couple said they got misgendered on several occasions, but neither of them had masculine voice; all it took was to speak up to reverse the gender assignment.  One was highly amused by it all, the other (who let her chin hairs grow out on purpose) was just annoyed.  Neither of them was afraid.

[echo7]

I have a good friend who gets misgendered every once in awhile. She is a cis woman, and one of the few friends I have who knows that I'm trans.  She admits it happens because she's not girly at all, she always wears very plain pants and shirts, she never wears any makeup, and she has a bit of a stocky body frame.

But she also told me that it never bothers her when she gets misgendered. She doesn't care when or if it happens, because she knows she's a woman, so why should she care if she gets misgendered?  Besides, all she has to do is talk, and the person who misgendered her instantly knows she's a woman, because her voice obviously sounds female. But yeah, she's simply not bothered by any misgendering, at all.

The fear of being misgendered is something that only we as trans women/men deal with.

[Devlyn]

I have a good friend who gets misgendered every once in awhile. She is a cis woman, and one of the few friends I have who knows that I'm trans.  She admits it happens because she's not girly at all, she always wears very plain pants and shirts, she never wears any makeup, and she has a bit of a stocky body frame.

But she also told me that it never bothers her when she gets misgendered. She doesn't care when or if it happens, because she knows she's a woman, so why should she care if she gets misgendered?  Besides, all she has to do is talk, and the person who misgendered her instantly knows she's a woman, because her voice obviously sounds female. But yeah, she's simply not bothered by any misgendering, at all.

The fear of being misgendered is something that only we as trans women/men deal with.

I was frequently "miss and ma'am"d when I was male and it bothered the hell out of me. So another blanket statement shot down. Most people will be uncomfortable when misgendered, it isn't exclusive to transgender people.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Cassi]

I was frequently "miss and ma'am"d when I was male and it bothered the hell out of me. So another blanket statement shot down. Most people will be uncomfortable when misgendered, it isn't exclusive to transgender people.

Hugs, Devlyn

May sound weird but I think there's a few good points that lead to the possiblity of gender identification being subliminal as well as direct.  I've been told my voice can span and on more than a few occasions I've heard someone say, say thank you to the nice lady and my response on being thanked had been your welcome in my most low voice, lol. More often than not it has led me to wonder why?

[Allison S]

I have short hair and I don't get gendered by people. I think that's not bad for just under 6 months on hrt, but bad since I'm ready for my female life. I think I'll just feel better getting "miss".

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Cassi]

Exactly this.

You want the world to be inclusive, but some of you can't even do that to other people here.

Sonja.

The first time I went to meet with my Endo at the VA and I was waiting, there was a woman in the lobby that I think was trans.  While I try to be cordial this person kept asking everyone personal questions, where you from, who you with, why are you hear - all kinda personal issues.  Her dress and mannerisms were a little too much for me so I didn't strike up a conversation or follow her into one. 

[Cassi]

I have short hair and I don't get gendered by people. I think that's not bad for just under 6 months on hrt, but bad since I'm ready for my female life. I think I'll just feel better getting "miss".

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Okay Missy (in my most quirkish voice), good for you

[echo7]

I was frequently "miss and ma'am"d when I was male and it bothered the hell out of me. So another blanket statement shot down. Most people will be uncomfortable when misgendered, it isn't exclusive to transgender people.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, you have "shot me down". Congratulations, you win.  I'm done here.  "Hugs" to you too. /s

[Devlyn]

Yes, you have "shot me down". Congratulations, you win.  I'm done here.  "Hugs" to you too. /s

I don't win when someone can't handle a correction to something they said. They lose.

[Northern Star Girl]

Quote from: echo7 on Today at 03:38:58 pm
    Yes, you have "shot me down". Congratulations, you win.  I'm done here.  "Hugs" to you too. /s

Quote from Devlyn Marie on Today at 03:47:59 pm
I don't win when someone can't handle a correction to something they said. They lose.

Devlyn:  You are very correct... these things need conclude in a win/win outcome. 
If one screws up they need to "own it" and then try make things right.   
Then it is up to the other one to accept their effort to correct things and then both parties need put that episode behind them and move on with forgiveness.
Just my opinion!!!
Hugs to Echo7 and to Devlyn,
Danielle