I'm just curious how many of you would have rather been born CIS.

[pamelatransuk]

Hello again all

Just to let you all know that Tatiana is a great friend of mine and we became each other's first buddies even though she is from US and I from UK; distance is nothing thankfully on Susans.

I first entered at comment 35 stating just like Jane that I have no evidence and hence could not "vote" whether I would have preferred to have been born cismale simply because I was not born cismale; I have always known I was trans and never believed I was cis and have no experience of cis.

However this debate seems to have moved on to two other related subjects and that is quite acceptable and I shall address those briefly:

1. I am absolutely 100% certain that I would have preferred to have been born Cisfemale as my body and mind would thus be aligned and I would not have to suffer all the misfortune that being trans has entailed. This included originally thinking as a child I was mad, disapproval from my parents at crossdressing and not fitting in either at school or later in society as a whole essentially due to I knowing and others realising "there being something wrong with me" and to all intents and purposes a lifetime of depression only temporarily alleviated by burying and suppressing that I am trans.

2. Like Ellen and Tatiana those of us born in 1950s and 1960s had no information as to how to deal with our situation even at the terrible point of puberty and indeed not really till the time of the internet and until transgender became part of the public domain (IMHO since 2000) but there has always been and still is but less so the added problem that trans is a "social taboo". It is not yet accepted either because the opposition does not like us or think ours is choice of lifestyle or because the opposition does not understand and sometimes does not wish to understand. That answer as already pointed out is education and in time I am confident we will be accepted but we need to campaign and we must give it time. We will get there.

I also regret doing nothing about my transgender status till age 62 but I have no doubts I am right to confront it; as you see I am 5 months HRT and intending public transition in 2019.

Love and Hugs to you all

Pamela   

[warlockmaker]

Thank you Tatiana for the kind words. I do know I am lucky to pass easily and thus enjoy life in peace. But I was never miserable as a male, to the contrary, loved my life as a male. My philosophy has always been to look for the good and enjoy the moment. So why change, you may ask? I grew up not knowing about tgs, just knew I was not gay. So I assumed all males had hidden fantasies and this was mine. When I found out there was an option I decided that after I concluded my many family responsibilities that I would change. Thus, I changed without guilt and had full support of family and friends. I encourage others to not be hateful or blame their misery on being a tg. Look at all the wonders the journey has taken us and the joirneys still to be discovered.

[noleen111]

I would love to have been born cis-female.. As a trans I am a well adjusted woman and very happy.. but if I was born cis, I would be able to conceive and have a baby with the man I love.

I know that adoption is an option, and that is how I will become a mother some day, but to be able to carry my own child to term would have being special. I have two friends that have had kids and they say.. pregnancy can be uncomfortable, giving birth is painful, but the whole pregnancy experience is magical and they would do it again.. My one friend meant it, as she is currently pregnant with her second one.

Plus being born cis-female, I would have been able to be a teenage girl...

[DeniseGrace]

The life you'e lived made you the person you are today. Wouldn't make a change.

[Bari Jo]

I think you'll get nearly 100% agreement...in this subforum. In Transgender Talk the numbers would shift. I love being transgender, it's opened up a second life for me.

Hugs, Devlyn

Thanks for this Devlyn.  This is a great reminder that we can love being trans and not feel shame.  This is a quite enjoyable ride, but honestly I would have preferred to go through it at 16, or be cis female and just go through puberty instead.

Bari Jo

[pretty pauline]

I would love to have been born cis-female.. As a trans I am a well adjusted woman and very happy.. but if I was born cis, I would be able to conceive and have a baby with the man I love.

I know that adoption is an option, and that is how I will become a mother some day, but to be able to carry my own child to term would have being special. I have two friends that have had kids and they say.. pregnancy can be uncomfortable, giving birth is painful, but the whole pregnancy experience is magical and they would do it again.. My one friend meant it, as she is currently pregnant with her second one.

Plus being born cis-female, I would have been able to be a teenage girl...

Absolutely agree, I wished I'd been born cis-female, some say transition is an ''enjoyable ride'' it wasn't for me, transition is a pain, mood swings on hrt, months of electrolysis hair removal, then the surgeries, FFS then breast augmentation, the FFS was painful, then tracheal shave and SRS, I was just relieved when it was all over, finally have a female body matching my female mind, I've adjust to life successfully now as a married woman, but can't conceive my husband's child, if only I was born cis I'd never have gone through the pain of transition and maybe be a Mom too.

[Tatiana 79]

Gosh ladies I'm pretty overwhelmed by getting this much response.
I really find it very fascinating by
The diversity of everyone's opinions
and really appreciate everyone's input.

Hey Pamela
right back at you girlfriend
I definitely feel very honored and privileged to have you as my first buddy here.
It's something that I know I will never forget.  I know that we share much of the same feelings of our upbringing in that era with our parents , schooling and our faith.  at that time we really had no resource whatsoever.  I also felt like I was going mad because I knew something was very wrong but had to just live with it feeling very isolated and alone and it was something that you dare not even talk about it.
The few times that I did talk about it with my parents at a very young age all I got was a lot of humiliation and embarrassment from them and I don't blame them I think they were just trying to do the best they could with the knowledge that existed then.
So I learned very quickly to clam up and never mention it again. Which lead to a very repressed development which haunted me my whole life but I very recently was able to crack out of the shell that was imprinted upon me. At least now Pamela we can both move forward together in today's era that is much more accepting then the one we grew up in and hopefully live the rest of our lives with our inner identity and our physical being more in harmony with each other and experience comfort in our own skin for the first time.
Love you GF  for being there for me as I always will be for you.

And to Warlockmaker I just love your very positive attitude and hope a little bit of it rubs off on me.  I'm so happy for you that you're so passable and so gorgeous girl and you can live your life in peace.
but I to want to live out the rest of my life in peace even though I don't ever think I'll be passable that's why I've been grooming my tiny little town in the middle of nowhere slowly and steadily and very determined to make it work until it becomes reality.
I personally contact one or a group of people and slowly break into it until I can see it in their eyes that they're on my side. And so far this plan has been working out better than I ever expected which provides me more encouragement and confidence that eventually I'll have majority support on our side instead of the other way around that usually occurs in the big city. I'm determined to do this but it's really a piece of cake because everyone here is my friend and they've all seen me in really rough condition and they all want me to recover from this and feel better and this takes precedence over me being trans.
Danielle's got a thread going on positive mindset and I think you could be something like the poster girl in that thread spreading your magic with your awesome positive attitude. I hope you visit it if you already haven't.

And Noleen you definitely deserve my compliments to be where you're at now and very happy it must feel wonderful. I will definitely be rooting for you  to raise your daughter  as you always wanted to do
With your high level of confidence I'm sure you'll make a wonderful mother
Even though it won't occur as you indicated here I believe you will find great fulfillment with your daughter none the less.
I really hope your future exceeds any expectations that you have now.
best wishes that your hopes become reality.  I believe that you will still find this a magical experience none the less.

And to Denise  your attitude of not wanting to change a thing implies to me that everything turned out the way you wanted and succeeded with your goals is awesome. You truly must have your act in order my congratulations to you dear.

And to Bari Joe thank you very much for your opinion and pointing out that we can still love being trans and feel no shame.  I find this statement extremely powerful and also very correct. Why should we feel any shame whatsoever we were completely absent choice with this decision it's merely a medical condition that hasn't been pinned down by science yet.
People that have medical conditions that have been pinned down and figured out by science feel no shame so why should we
I know that were all affected by what the majority of society says,  I also am certain that the number of days of this type of mentality are numbered and one day we will be treated no different than any other medical condition.

And Pauline  even though it was not an enjoyable ride for you, you did what you had to do to bring your body and brain or identity to a state of Harmony. Hats off to you dear for  achieving this.

I don't have enough thanks and Praise for all of your insights it was so incredibly interesting to hear everyone's opinion. Especially for a newbie like me that just arrived here a couple months ago without any trans knowledge. I thank each and everyone of you and have learned much from each experience.
I never would have dreamed this thread would have got this much response apparently I was not the only one that found this very interesting and mere words cannot express my  thanks for everyone's participation ladies.
You really helped me far more than you can even imagine. This was my very first thread that I tried to stay interactive with ever.  and feel very privileged and starting to feel worthy enough to even be here.
All of my love to each and everyone of you, Tatiana

[pamelatransuk]

Thank you Tatiana for all your kind words.

Congratulations on your first topic and that it became such a really interesting thread.

You have always been worthy to be here as nothing has to be earned here. You are simply one of us and here on Susans we debate, we share and we help. You have done that since your arrival.

Love to you too GF and many hugs

Pamela

[Charlie Nicki]

Absolutely agree, I wished I'd been born cis-female, some say transition is an ''enjoyable ride'' it wasn't for me, transition is a pain, mood swings on hrt, months of electrolysis hair removal, then the surgeries, FFS then breast augmentation, the FFS was painful, then tracheal shave and SRS, I was just relieved when it was all over, finally have a female body matching my female mind, I've adjust to life successfully now as a married woman, but can't conceive my husband's child, if only I was born cis I'd never have gone through the pain of transition and maybe be a Mom too.

It makes me happy to see someone that shares this perspective with me. I haven't enjoyed a single part of transition so far and I can't understand how anyone can say this process is enjoyable or awesome, unless they're masochists...I just feel like I'm constantly struggling with depression, sadness, doubts and fears in every step of the way, trying to find a balance and a sense of normalcy and stability again. The physical pain of laser and surgery is nothing compared to the mental and emotional one I've been through in this entire process. It's awesome to see that you are a success story so maybe there's hope for me one day, but in the meantime this freaking sucks.

[Tatiana 79]

Hey CharlieNicki
I was actually just corresponding with Pauline minutes ago and also called her a success story.
But Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, you and Pauline are on one end of the spectrum and some are on the other end.
The ones that are enjoying the journey I believe are telling the truth.
Everyone's approaching this from a different angle and their own perspective and everyone's story varies greatly enough to produce the wide range of opinions here.
thanks for your opinion.
All the best love Tatiana

[Lilly G]

100% wish I had been born cisfemale no question there. I wouldn't be stuck in a ->-bleeped-<-ty life spot atm. also wouldn't deal with my family being rude to me 24/7

[Sephirah]

There was a time... many times, in fact, that I would have said yes. In a heartbeat. It would have saved me so much pain, heartache, loss, struggle, anguish, sleepless nights and just all round unpleasantness.

But now... no. No I wouldn't. Because, as my signature translates to: "Nature does nothing in vain." Everything happens for a reason. And I think I am who I am for a reason. Without wanting to sound big headed or anything, I believe being who I am and dealing with everything I've had to deal with has allowed me to help others dealing with the same. It has allowed me to find my purpose in life. To help others. To draw on my experience for the benefit of offering a helping hand to those in need. And doing that makes me happy. Seeing someone smile after being in the depths of abject misery... makes me smile.

I believe that is my reason for being here. And being born the way I was... living my life the way I have... has facilitated that. It happened for a reason. I am who I am because it allowed me to do what I feel I am capable of doing.

Being born cis would have made me someone else. My life would have been completely different. Physically, and mentally different. And sure, speaking for how I feel in my own head... that would have been the preferable choice. Maybe I would have been happier. But would others have been happier? I don't know... and honestly, that's what I care about more. I believe my life has been how it has in order to make me who I am, and to make me capable of doing what I feel I am in a position to do.

So, for me, I weigh up how I feel versus how countless other people feel because of something I've said or done. And on balance... I would rather be who I am now. As the great sage Spock once said: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one."

[Tatiana 79]

Thanks Sephirah and Lilly
Since I started this thread I've been trying to reply back to everyone  that voiced their opinion.
  I just figure if someone spends their time to reply back to me the least I could do is to reply back to them.
First Sephirah,
I know that I really don't know you, but from after hearing your words on my other thread,  and now on this one I sense that you have a deep pool of knowledge, caring and insight that is extraordinary.
And I love your bottom line attitude of helping others.
I think your position on this is incredibly honorable. And I kind of know what you mean by this. Truly the reward is in the giving and not the receiving.
And I also sense you being here is a tremendous asset to everyone.
Even though we are light years apart I too have experienced this Joy of giving.  In the introduction forums I merely pointed out a few basic things to, I think her name was Kristy, and out of all the things I did in my life mechanic, drummer or whatever.
But because of this simple Act I received more reward out of this than anything else I have done in my entire life so I kind of know what you mean by your giving attitude. and feeling better for it, even though I would surmise you have done it thousands of times and I have done it one time the effect was the same.
I see that you're also a Trekkie. I also have used the logic of the wise mr. Spock with that line and a few others here at Susan's. And the privilege has been all mine dear experiencing your presence here.

And to Lily,
Thank you for your valued opinion on this thread that became quite fascinating to me due to the diversity of the opinions.

Love you both Tatiana

[Leslie601]

I have, on many occasions, given this very subject a lot of thought. I love my children and would never be able to live without them. My first wife (their mother), not so much. So had I been female things would have been different - way different, and my children different too. Wrestle with that for a moment. What if I hadn't had children at all? History would have been different altogether for me. Indeed, the world could have been entirely different, because you or me or any one of us could have been the catalyst for some major world altering event. The world could have been a better place had I been female from the start, or I could have altered things in a more evil way - who knows. You can grapple with these thoughts until your brain explodes. Or go have a G&T and dance the night away and just take life as it comes.

L

[Tatiana 79]

Hello Leslie
I really can tell that you have given this subject a lot of thought and can sense your passion.
I have never had any children so I can't quite identify on the same level you're at.
You're absolutely right one person can potentially change the world with a different angle at looking at something that has never been thought of before,  like the cure for cancer or something else that's revolutionary.
I really love your attitude with the ending of your reply.
which I take as no need to stress about the uncontrollable and take life as it comes to us and play our hand of cards from the deck of life the best we can.  Thank you very much for your response in this thread.
Love Tatiana

[krobinson103]

No question about it. If I could have be born CIS female I'd have been much happier. That wasn't to be sadly we make the best of what we are given.

[Tatiana 79]

Hello Krobinson,
Thank you for your reply
Yes it most definitely would have been easier for us to have been born this way. And it fits in with the majority of consensus expressed by other members.
Except a few others that feel different and one with a very special reason.
and that one is from Sephirah, and I must say I'm still Blown Away by it days later.
which I can almost parallel to Jesus's suffering for all of us.
But anyways thank you very much for participating in this thread with your valued opinion.
Love Tatiana

[Danielle Kristina]

I'm AMAB MtF.  I, for one, wish I had been born cis, either as a male or a female.  However, I'm learning to love myself for who I am and am even learning to like being trans.  For now I'm just glad that I don't feel the shame and guilt and resentment toward myself for having my feminine feelings and desires.

[Tatiana 79]

Hello Danielle
We share many of the same feelings
I would accept CIS male but would  prefer CIS female of course.
Because I wouldn't have had to keep my feelings closeted for half a century resulting me being unfunctional
Either way I came out I'm sure I would still be working and more functional.  But hopefully I will still obtain this  someday
I'm very glad for you learning to love yourself Just As You Are
And yes there's absolutely no reason to feel shame guilt resentment for yourself. You were completely absent any choice it's merely the way you came out of your mother's womb.
But all we can do now is accept ourselves for who we really are take one day at a time and make the most with what we have.
Thank you very much with your very interesting reply
Love Tatiana.

[JB_Girl]

There was a time... many times, in fact, that I would have said yes. In a heartbeat. It would have saved me so much pain, heartache, loss, struggle, anguish, sleepless nights and just all round unpleasantness.

But now... no. No I wouldn't. Because, as my signature translates to: "Nature does nothing in vain." Everything happens for a reason. And I think I am who I am for a reason. Without wanting to sound big headed or anything, I believe being who I am and dealing with everything I've had to deal with has allowed me to help others dealing with the same. It has allowed me to find my purpose in life. To help others. To draw on my experience for the benefit of offering a helping hand to those in need. And doing that makes me happy. Seeing someone smile after being in the depths of abject misery... makes me smile.

I believe that is my reason for being here. And being born the way I was... living my life the way I have... has facilitated that. It happened for a reason. I am who I am because it allowed me to do what I feel I am capable of doing.

Being born cis would have made me someone else. My life would have been completely different. Physically, and mentally different. And sure, speaking for how I feel in my own head... that would have been the preferable choice. Maybe I would have been happier. But would others have been happier? I don't know... and honestly, that's what I care about more. I believe my life has been how it has in order to make me who I am, and to make me capable of doing what I feel I am in a position to do.

So, for me, I weigh up how I feel versus how countless other people feel because of something I've said or done. And on balance... I would rather be who I am now. As the great sage Spock once said: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one."

This is as articulate a response as I have read on this topic in quite a while.  I live an authentic life, filled with opportunity, challenge, and joy.  My life today has been informed by every experience, every hurt, every blessing, everything I learned, and every lesson transcended.  I would not be Julie without spending most of six decades coping with dysphoria.  I regret the pain I caused to people who would not or could not understand my path to myself, but I have sought those people out and made what amends that I can for my part. 

I celebrate with those who I have seen triumph, and am grateful to have been allowed to walk a bit with them and their journey to authenticity.  I was not born one thing and became another.  I was born and embarked on a hero's quest to myself.  For us, if we survive the journey, the quest is not a pilgrimage to who we became, but to whom we have always been. 

Peace
Julie

"And I went to the doctor, I went to the mountains
I looked to the children, I drank from the fountains
There's more than one answer to these questions
Pointing me in a crooked line
And the less I seek my source for some definitive
The closer I am to fine
The closer I am to fine."  Indigo girls