M2F Tomboys?

[Just Mandy]

My clothes do not make me.

My interests do not make me.

But I agree Rachael 100%... excellent point.

I've had a hard time with the whole dressing thing...  since I don't get into skirts and dresses, at least yet... and I have some
male hobbies/interests... am I really trans?

But then I think how good my physical changes make me feel and how much I love to wear makeup and I put
any thoughts like that out of mind. My dysphoria has always been primarily my body and face and dressing female is
nice but just icing on the cake for me.

I think wearing of really feminine clothing may be a comfort level thing and a gradual change for me too.
It's really great that some of us feel comfortable wearing dresses and skirts, and maybe someday
I will get to the point where I feel that I can pull it off. I love a lot of things I see on women and in catalogs,
the colors and prints and how the right dress can really flatter your shape. I tried on a dress a few weeks ago
and I love how it made me feel and how it made my body look. But right now I just feel so out of place going
out in public... and a dress is just too much.

I think this comfort thing is also true of young GG's the first few times they wear a dress... especially the tomboys that
grow up in jeans and t-shirts. And I know were I live that young female athletes these days are often tomboys and often do
not wear dresses and skirts except on special occasions. Usually it's jeans and a tank top unless they are going out
and then it's jeans and some type of pretty top. And maybe an age thing too.... people in the US are much
more casual than say twenty or thirty years ago.

Amanda

[Kate]

I've had a hard time with the whole dressing thing...  since I don't get into skirts and dresses, at least yet... and I have some
male hobbies/interests... am I really trans?

And that's just it. I've always shied away from justifying my transition through "proving" to myself and everyone else that I'm inherently female somehow. There's always the temptation to add up my "female" traits and interests, take gender tests, look at how comfortable I am in a female role, decide I relate better to women than men, etc. Others point to their exclusive sexual interest in men, lack of marriage and children, and so on. All to "prove" we're female, like we're solving an equation or something. Like if you can check off 51% or more "Female Traits," then you get to transition as a Real Transsexual.

But it's a huge risk to build self-knowledge upon those things for me, for as soon as that "evidence" seems threatened... *I* would be threatened. And you see it everywhere on here, with the various "real TS" arguments that get going sometimes, with everyone getting super defensive when their foundation of "evidence" becomes questioned.

But in the end, the one thing I DO know is that I had to transition. That's one truth that can't be changed or shaken, no matter what the explanation for it is. Whether I'm "female inside," or just experiencing some odd misdirected sexual impulse, it doesn't change the fact that I've always felt a compelling need to be female, and in *every* possible way, and at any cost.

I used to think I was doing this all "wrong" somehow, and should be adopting more femme mannerisms and dress and behaviours. I thought I was "holding back" or had some huge reservoir of femininity just waiting to be released once I "stopped hiding" and found my so-called "self-acceptance."

But I've realized that MY self-acceptance is in acknowledging that this is Who I Am, right now, this moment. I'm sure I'll evolve and change as I grow now, but that's a *natural* change I expect and want... as opposed to forcing myself into an image of what I (and others) think a woman SHOULD be.

So be a tomboy, be a femme, be whatever you want to be without regard to what it supposedly ads up to or looks like to anyone else. Just be YOU, whatever that may be, and make it work, as only you can, whatever it takes.

~Kate~

[Alyssa M.]

My mother was a tomboy. I blame her. She taught me to love math and the outdoors. I guess I just didn't have appropriate female role models to make me into the picture of modern feminity. She also taught me to bake and sew and garden, so maybe she wan't a complete failure.

My gender isn't so much about my hobbies or style of dress as it is about how I relate to people, whether friends, colleagues, or random people on the street; and about who I aspire to be like -- why my profile picture is Lynn Hill and not Chris Sharma. (Maybe it should be Emmy Noether instead.)

[Just Mandy]

But in the end, the one thing I DO know is that I had to transition. That's one truth that can't be changed or shaken, no matter what the explanation for it is. Whether I'm "female inside," or just experiencing some odd misdirected sexual impulse, it doesn't change the fact that I've always felt a compelling need to be female, and in *every* possible way, and at any cost.

Bingo... that's the key isn't it? We have to do this regardless of cost?

My mother was a tomboy. I blame her. She taught me to love math and the outdoors. I guess I just didn't have appropriate female role models to make me into the picture of modern feminity. Tongue She also taught me to bake and sew and garden, so maybe she wan't a complete failure. laugh

My gender isn't so much about my hobbies or style of dress as it is about how I relate to people, whether friends, colleagues, or random people on the street; and about who I aspire to be like -- why my profile picture is Lynn Hill and not Chris Sharma. (Maybe it should be Emmy Noether instead.)

My mom was also a tomboy as well as my sister, although both were/are very pretty. I never thought about that before but maybe
that does have an impact. But yes I think it is how you relate and interact with people. People have talked about having
a "female soul" and I'm starting to believe there is a such a thing and I have one. I realize now that from a very young age I
have held a female view point of all things in the world. And that helps me when I have a "am I trans" moment.

Amanda

[cindybc]

Hi Kate
Hey hon all I got to say is, "You got it hon." Just be you, dress accordingly to the occasion, do some jaw wagging and have fun.  As for hobbies, well the only boy ones I had were racing stock cars and snowmobiles and and flying bush planes. Well I think I'm am getting up in years to be doing the first two anymore, flying bush planes...... hmmmm possibly.

But I also loved drawing, story-writing and storytelling, sewing, knitting, and a whole host of other things I could do if I were bored. Just continue to be you hon, a lot of the traits they talk about will come naturally in time without any conscious effort on your part. It is after you graduate the transitioning pains that you will discover the pleasure of growing into being yourself.

Y'all have a wonderful day

Cindy 

[Kate]

My mother was a tomboy. I blame her....

My mom was also a tomboy as well as my sister, although both were/are very pretty. I never thought about that before but maybe
that does have an impact...

Interesting, as my mother wasn't particularly feminine either in the sense of wearing skirts or makeup or being glamorous. She was more "functional," focused on getting through the day's chores and raising us more than anything. Hey... oh no... don't tell me I've turned into my mother!

Plus I had no sisters (just one brother), and no female cousins close by when growing up. Aside from my mother's unglamorous collection, I never had access to much makeup or feminine clothing. It's true it never occurred to me back then to even want to, but I wonder if things woulda been different had more opportunity been there?

Ah well, water under the bridge...

~Kate~

[Just Mandy]

Interesting, as my mother wasn't particularly feminine either in the sense of wearing skirts or makeup or being glamorous. She was more "functional," focused on getting through the day's chores and raising us more than anything. Hey... oh no... don't tell me I've turned into my mother!

Yea... you probably have... LOL  Mine was much the same... a functional utility woman.

Aside from my mother's unglamorous collection, I never had access to much makeup or feminine clothing. It's true it never occurred to me back then to even want to, but I wonder if things woulda been different had more opportunity been there?

Nah... I had opportunity and access... and my sister even dressed me in dresses when I was young but it took
a long time to figure things out.

Amanda

[cindybc]

Hi Kate as a kid I had access to what ever ones heart could desire both from my sisters wardrobe and my moms, my mom's somewhat more old fashion then my sisters but still very fashionable. My mom was a lady and when she and my dad use to go out every weekend, I use to watch her get dressed and I would marvel after she was done it was like she had been magically turned into a princess, by the fairy godmother. I was close to my mom and admired her a lot.

Anyway after everyone left the house it was my turn to be the lady of the house, It was never just a half attempt at just looking like a girl, it turned out to be a complete manifestation and reenactment of some character I had seen in some magazines or TV. The make up, even right down to wearing my mom's wig for further emphasis. As well I always enjoyed fantasising stuff, heck I still do. I don't know what I would do without my imagination, it would be pretty boring I suppose. I sometimes even play imaginary games with Wing Walker, ya I know I am quite child like for my age.

Anyway no, even after all the playacting and dressing up I did when I was younger, I am very conservative as to how I dress when just knocking about. But you know it all feels liberating to dress, even if it is in just everyday wear for around the house or for knocking about town shopping. The beauty shines from within.

Have yourself a wonderful day hon

Cindy     

[pretty pauline]

What really stands out in this discussion is the influence our Mothers have or had on how we turn out and on our lives, Rachael your a very free spirit person, did your Mother influence you or maybe your are a strong person, our Mothers have a lot of influence.
My Mother was very domineering, she really was very disappointed she had no daughters only 4sons, I was the youngest, I sometimes wonder was that how I got my strong feelings from a very young age to become a girl, when I couldn'd take anymore and came out at 16, it was the first time in my life that my brothers and Dad saw my Mother really happy, thats why they encourage and supported my transition.
But I could never be a tomboy, because my Mother would never allow it, she didn't want me to be like my brothers, I was to be pretty and feminine, if I showed the remotest interest in wearing a pair of jeans she would dismiss it out of hand and say it was boyish, so I went along with things so that my transition would be a success, I'd say for about 6years till I was 23 I lived in a very pink world, going to occasions Mom would do my hair with curlers and made sure I wore the right dress. Tomboy?? no way, Mother didn't approve.
Now years have passed, my Mom has passed on, at 50 Im told Im a very feminine lady, I guess I get it from my Mother, if I wanted to be a tomboy, she probably say, I can just hear her now ''well you should have stayed a boy'' and I would never have wanted that, no Im just a woman.
p

[Hypatia]

Sure, if wearing some mens jeans is me holding on to some pretransition self, fine... whatever. no offense meant here, but are we crossdressers or actually the target gender?

Dude. In the men's clothes you like so much-- you're a crossdresser. Not that there's anything wrong with that. We have a crossdresser forum here at Susan's, go for it. 

[Gracie Faise]

What really stands out in this discussion is the influence our Mothers have or had on how we turn out and on our lives, Rachael your a very free spirit person, did your Mother influence you or maybe your are a strong person, our Mothers have a lot of influence.
My Mother was very domineering, she really was very disappointed she had no daughters only 4sons, I was the youngest, I sometimes wonder was that how I got my strong feelings from a very young age to become a girl, when I couldn'd take anymore and came out at 16, it was the first time in my life that my brothers and Dad saw my Mother really happy, thats why they encourage and supported my transition.
But I could never be a tomboy, because my Mother would never allow it, she didn't want me to be like my brothers, I was to be pretty and feminine, if I showed the remotest interest in wearing a pair of jeans she would dismiss it out of hand and say it was boyish, so I went along with things so that my transition would be a success, I'd say for about 6years till I was 23 I lived in a very pink world, going to occasions Mom would do my hair with curlers and made sure I wore the right dress. Tomboy?? no way, Mother didn't approve.
Now years have passed, my Mom has passed on, at 50 Im told Im a very feminine lady, I guess I get it from my Mother, if I wanted to be a tomboy, she probably say, I can just hear her now ''well you should have stayed a boy'' and I would never have wanted that, no Im just a woman.
p

You're mom is one in a million @ 3@
My mom is just conservative. She hates it if my shorts are too far above my knee or my midrift is exposed. :"x

[Hypatia]

As long as we're comparing... My family was ultra-Catholic, Mom is very traditional... Many of my earliest memories are of her clothes and makeup and things. When we were small, my sisters and I used to dress up in her crinolines, dresses, and high heels from her college days in the 1950s... who could have imagined those outmoded styles would become retro chic in the present day? I had four sisters and no brothers, and they all wore dresses, and of course I sneaked and wore their clothes, though I kept that very secret until now. They would have killed me if they knew.

I was always forced into very traditional masculinity. I was forced to show interest in football, even though I hated its guts. My parents insisted on my wearing a tie and jacket to church on Sundays when I was little. I have distressful memories of my Mom forcing my shirt collar closed against my throat to button it before adding the tie; I felt I was being strangled. Ever since then I cannot stand to have anything touching my throat. Nowadays I wear lots of low V-neck, décolleté dresses.

I grew up with an intense loathing of everything male that was forced upon me, and grew my hair long in high school even though my Dad hollered at me something awful, and the rest of the family treated me like I'd gone Communist or something. When I went away to college I grew my hair even longer. I rebelled against pretty much everything my parents valued. At the time I considered myself an androgyne; I would have given anything to transition, but thought it wasn't possible (there was no information available at my Jesuit college in those days, obviously)-- so I settled on androgyny as a compromise.

Now that I have the freedom to choose what I like, I can finally be happy. So I've permanently chucked all my former male stuff, good riddance! It was nothing but pain and misery for me. I'm finally living the life I always needed, dreams do come true.

[Just Mandy]

I was always forced into very traditional masculinity. I was forced to show interest in football, even though I hated its guts. My parents insisted on my wearing a tie and jacket to church on Sundays when I was little. I have distressful memories of my Mom forcing my shirt collar closed against my throat to button it before adding the tie; I felt I was being strangled. Ever since then I cannot stand to have anything touching my throat. Nowadays I wear lots of low V-neck, décolleté dresses.

It's so funny how people will talk about things here that happened to me as a child that I have not thought
about since. And when I read it I think "Yea... right on the mark". OMG... "distressful memories" does not even begin
to describe it. I hated having to dress up as a child, until now I never thought it might be related to GID but it does make me
recall how much I wanted to be able to wear soft dresses instead of stiff shirts and jackets.

I grew up with an intense loathing of everything male that was forced upon me, and grew my hair long in high school even though my Dad hollered at me something awful, and the rest of the family treated me like I'd gone Communist or something. When I went away to college I grew my hair even longer.

Yep... I remember those days... not too fondly. The last hair cut I got for many years was when I was about 13. My dad
took me to his barber... he was trying to make me a man I guess. It had been after some really bad times in my life. He told
the barber to give me a buzz... this was when a buzz was NOT in style. I looked like a freak. I was too scared to do or say anything,
I just sat there as my long hair fell off. By that time my relationship with my mother had already been ruined and that was the last
straw for me and my dad. From that day on neither had any influence on my life. And THAT was the last time I allowed either of them
to force me to do anything. I know what they were trying to do, but like a lot of family members they had no clue about GID and
I guess neither did I.

Amanda

[Kate]

I was always forced into very traditional masculinity. I was forced to show interest in football, even though I hated its guts. My parents insisted on my wearing a tie and jacket to church on Sundays when I was little. I have distressful memories of my Mom forcing my shirt collar closed against my throat to button it before adding the tie; I felt I was being strangled. Ever since then I cannot stand to have anything touching my throat. Nowadays I wear lots of low V-neck, décolleté dresses.

I hated having to dress up as a child, until now I never thought it might be related to GID but it does make me
recall how much I wanted to be able to wear soft dresses instead of stiff shirts and jackets...

I grew up with an intense loathing of everything male that was forced upon me, and grew my hair long in high school...

Yep... I remember those days... not too fondly. The last hair cut I got for many years was when I was about 13...

I swear I'm not TS, lol...

I didn't particularly mind doing most "guy" stuff as a child. Heck, I'm not even sure what "guy stuff" is anyway? I liked playing football with friends, throwing balls, climbing trees, riding my bike everywhere, etc. And I hated long hair. I tried it a few times, but it just made me feel ugly and stupid, a hippie "guy with long hair" and nothing more. Same with girl clothes: they always made me feel STUPID, a "guy in a dress." If I wasn't female, none of that mattered to me. Oh for sure, I was well aware from age 3 on that I should have been born a girl. But I didn't want to do "girly stuff" while male. The context was wrong, it just made me feel silly and WORSE since it'd just highlight everything I wasn't, and thought I could never be now. So I did what I could as a male, tried to be a pretty boy, tried to stay neat and attractive and well-dressed and all as a male. I always felt ugly and hideous though, because I KNEW I should have been female.

Which I think is the difference: my 24/7 soundtrack always said, "you need to have been BORN a girl." My urge isn't to do girly things, it's a need to have been born female. That's the fundamental problem I'm struggling to undo. And I lost that war before I had even begun. Everything, all the "girly" things from dolls to long hair to clothes to boys... were just pointless for me while living in the context of a male. Wearing panties made no sense to me as a male. Wearing a bra made no sense to me without breasts. Wearing makeup made no sense with a guy's face. Dolls made no sense if I'd never be a mother. All reminders of things I could never have, cruel teases of what should have been, but never would be.

Even now this "transition" thing is my last hope. An attempt to delude myself into believing I've *always* been female, that I was born this way. I'm trying to undo history and write the story that was meant to be told.

~Kate~

[Just Mandy]

I swear I'm not TS, lol...

Well that's SO obvious from your post... what ARE you doing here?

LOL... NO... it just reminds us of how we all take different paths to get here. And
I think a lot of stuff we do as kids is maybe to prove to ourselves we are male. It's
part of denying who we are.

I have some really male hobbies and interests but that does not change how I feel inside. It makes me feel OK about
it when I read that many of you have male interests and hobbies. And having male hobbies does not change how I look
at the world. I AM female, I know my brain is female, I know I have female emotions and I know I always been
like that. There are SO many things about my thoughts, personality and emotions that scream female that it's
amazing that I ever passed as male... LOL... but I was born male, I was raised male and I've let myself
live a male life. So I guess I am a tomboy.

My urge isn't to do girly things, it's a need to have been born female.

Absolutely! I'm not going to change things about ME just to fit a role... darn it... that's
what I've been doing my whole life. No... I'm just going to be me and if that makes me a tomboy so be it. Don't
get me wrong... I would LOVE to be able to pull off a frilly dress and heels... probably not much different
than a 16 Y/O GG that has been a tomboy all her life. But just like that 16 Y/O tomboy I think I would look
like the ugly duckling and feel out of place. I admire all the woman here that can do that... good for you. You are
all my idol

Amanda

[cindybc]

My mom and I were close, I practically worshiped the ground she walked on and I believe she knew my big dark secret but never let on she did.  Back then in the 50's, 60's and 70's anything about transexuality and treatment of GID was scarce and very little was known about it. I did dress up whenever an opportunity arose but for the most part on the exterior I did pretty well the same things you did, Kate.

climbing trees, riding my bike everywhere, etc. And I hated long hair. I tried it a few times, but it just made me feel ugly and stupid, a hippie "guy with long hair" and nothing more. Same with girl clothes: they always made me feel STUPID, a "guy in a dress." If I wasn't female, none of that mattered to me. Oh for sure, I was well aware from age 3 on that I should have been born a girl. But I didn't want to do "girly stuff" while male. The context was wrong, it just made me feel silly and WORSE since it'd just highlight everything I wasn't, and thought I could never be now. So I did what I could as a male, tried to be a pretty boy, tried to stay neat and attractive and well-dressed and all as a male. I always felt ugly and hideous though, because I KNEW I should have been female.

Heck ya, I loved biking for miles, spending a lot of time on the reservation, I liked the kids there, they were more fun then the other white folks' kids. I also loved spending the entire days on the lake which was a stone's throw from the homestead. I would borrow one of my dad's leaky row boats and go exploring the shore line or go to my favorite hiding place on this island across the lake from the homestead. I loved playing Huckleberry Finn, or Robinson Crusoe, sometimes I even played Jungle Queen, dressed in pilfered  clothes from my sister's closet.  I had my Collie with me whom I knew would be a great early warning system if anyone even came close to the island. Imagination is a lot of fun.

As for letting my hair grow, I started letting it grow when I was 12 years old, I liked it, I had really bushy, thick ringleted hair so you can imagine how unruly that can get after spending the day in the woods. By the time I was 14 it was mid-back, at 15 it was down to my butt (the hippie era). From the 12 to 15 were probably my most fun years running about with a tom boy, gum chewin, street fightin gal named Helen. Actually my childhood was a lot of fun in the sun and all that neat jazz, as far as I can remember. It's funny just how much one can remember about their childhood if you really wish to do so, Amanda.

Cindy

[deviousxen]

Interesting, as my mother wasn't particularly feminine either in the sense of wearing skirts or makeup or being glamorous. She was more "functional," focused on getting through the day's chores and raising us more than anything. Hey... oh no... don't tell me I've turned into my mother!

Yea... you probably have... LOL  Mine was much the same... a functional utility woman.

Aside from my mother's unglamorous collection, I never had access to much makeup or feminine clothing. It's true it never occurred to me back then to even want to, but I wonder if things woulda been different had more opportunity been there?

Nah... I had opportunity and access... and my sister even dressed me in dresses when I was young but it took
a long time to figure things out.

Amanda

I give this entire web community express permissions to end my existence for the good of the universe if I ever, one day, start turning into my mom. It would be kind of impossible to gain that much weight, and she's MUCH MORE old fashioned and childish though...

Of course, me posting about hers not nice... I'm just venting. I love her a lot, but WOW. I need to get out of my house and on with my LIFEEEEE~!!!!!!

[Rachael]

Yeah i know what you mean...


if i ever end up wearing jodhpurs, wellies, a woolen sweater with a horse on, and have short hair,  or marry someone like my father... PLEASE....










shoot me
R >

[deviousxen]

Its okay. I have no idea what the hell those things are...

[cindybc]

I loved my dad, he was intelligent, witty, funny and I could stay up for hours listening to his thoughts on many different types of topics. But then I loved my mom equaly, she was fun to be with, she was more like best friend then a mom, a big kid she was. I guess I took after her that way. And man could she tell some realy whoppin good stories. Actually I loved them both but I was my mom's suck.

Cindy