*hugs Jordan* I'm replying to your post separately because I can relate quite a bit to how your wife is feeling. I can't guarantee it's exactly how your wife is feeling, only talking to her can tell you that. But perhaps I can give you some insights that will help you and your wife begin to talk.
Quote from: Jordan on August 25, 2008, 07:38:25 AM
Dear Wind,
You obviously really love your partner, enough that you have even bothered to come here. My wife does not seem to have the emotional ability/strength to attempt to deal with the issue, and at all costs does everything in her power to avoid any related to the issue, and I dont blame her.
I can understand your wife's reaction perfectly here, because I did much the same 10 years ago when Dani first broached the subject of transition. I was *supremely* resistant to the idea. I couldn't tell you specifically why then...I can now and it's not one reason, it's a tangle of many. Dani didn't blame me either...Dani even gave me the opportunity to leave. I didn't then probably because Dani chose on her own not to transition then. I was happy "it" went away. But it didn't really go away...and I almost lost the person I care about the most.
I can probably say, with a degree of certainty, that your wife is very afraid. And her way of dealing with the fear is to pretend it doesn't exist. Been there, done that. What needs to happen is that she needs to confront the fears. The trick now is getting her to open up to you.
Quote from: Jordan on August 25, 2008, 07:38:25 AM
I do not want to lose my wife, and she doesnt want to lose me. The one thing that resounds in your post was the second part of your dream where the therapist tells your partner that you will leave no matter what, and sadly the statistics are very heavily against you and it is exactly what my therapist tells me.
The odds are still higher for couples breaking up than staying together, however, more couples *are* staying together through through transition. I figure if I'm going to be a statistic, I sure as heck want to be a positive one
The key to staying together is communication. Dani and I are working very hard on this right now because our communication channels almost completely atrophied during the 8-ish years Dani was in denial. Dani became a workaholic and almost totally withdrew from me. I'd get one word answers to questions most times. We both realized that if we were going to stay together, we *had* to fix our communication issues.
Dani told me after I had talked to her about my dreams, that someone actually told her to dump me because I'd "just leave anyway". *That* made me angry. How dare someone presume to think for me? The person who made that comment to Dani does not even *know* me and yet they can "predict" what I will do? Humph.
Quote from: Jordan on August 25, 2008, 07:38:25 AM
It is hurtful to your identity when a woman who is attracted to men espressively, is told she must now become lesbian or risk losing a life she has built and created with established love. I could not do it myself, I would have left If I was in her shoes.
My wife (in moments of extreme anger) conveys to me, that she feels that by me being what I am I have stripped her of her feminine identity. and I dont know how to react to this, but I listen, I hear, and most importantly I understand.
Ah, now this I also understand. I call this the "better woman" syndrome. I've fought with it, and will probably have to fight it again at later stages of transition. It's not an easy thing to combat. I'd be willing to bet your wife is feeling like you will somehow be "better" than her. You will be prettier, more successful, more feminine, more "something". It's also bull poopie, but the feeling isn't rational. The hard truth is that there is no such thing as a "better" woman. There are just *different* women. But sometimes "different" is also scary. It took me a while to realize that Dani will not be prettier than I am, because I will not become less pretty. She will not be more successful than I am, because "success" means different things to different people. Dani will not be more feminine that I am, because again define what is or is not "feminine". It means that I am myself, and Dani's transition does not make me any less myself. Overcoming the "better woman" syndrome does mean feeling comfortable with yourself, and maybe your wife is feeling a bit insecure about herself. If you have kids (and this is going to be speculation here as Dani and I do not have kids) but your wife may also be feeling that you are trying to take away her role as "mom". A lot of women, especially mothers, feel very strongly about that "mother" role. You may want to reassure your wife that you're not trying to supplant her role as mother, but support it as another female.
She could also be feeling out of control a bit. She may be feeling like she's on that bullet train. She's seeing you transition and feels like she has no choices. Now I'm not saying let your wife convince you to stop here. However, marriage is a partnership and when one partner is doing the driving without input from the other, things can go bad. I liken Dani's transition to a Sunday drive. Dani is still driving, but I get to ask to stop and smell the roses every once and a while. This way, Dani is still controlling her transition, but I get to ask her to pause when I need more time to adjust. Dani's willingness to take things slowly for my sake is also a large part of this. She's willing to give me time to work though my feelings before we go on to the next step. And I in turn, promised that I *would* deal with things instead of wishing they'd go away.
Being seen as lesbian is a large issue for some women. Sex and intimacy are also large issues for women. I'm not an exception here. I had to deal with how I felt about being perceived as lesbian. But you know something, just because someone calls me a name, doesn't make me into that name. What hurts me more is that after Dani goes full time, I will no longer be able to hold her hand in public and she will not be able to put her arm around me because "society" says "lesbians are evil!!!" We aren't evil. We just love each other very much, and that makes us no different from any other man or woman. As for sex, well, that can be tough. If your wife identifies as purely heterosexual, then she probably won't be open to sex with another woman. Unfortunately, that I have no advice for. As I worked through my feelings, I have accepted that I am bisexual which has made sex pretty much a non-issue for me. I have heard of couples that have stayed together with more of a sister or best girlfriend type of relationship. Whether that will work for you or not, I can't say. I will say that now that Dani has accepted herself, she is more open to things like cuddling and snuggling than she was when she was male. Perhaps letting your wife see your 'softer' side will help?
Quote from: Jordan on August 25, 2008, 07:38:25 AM
We are your bane, your source of anger, and it is a hard thing to shake or ease especially the closer you two get towards the eventual day of No going back, If you can make it through that day, that week, that year, you are solely a astounding loving person, and your then wife.. is absolutely blessed to have you.
Well, I would not quite say you're a "bane" and I am certainly no longer angry at Dani. I will admit to feeling a bit of anger when Dani came out to me again. But, really, how can you be angry with a person about something that they can't control? It's not like Dani up and decided one day that she was going to be female. It's part of who she *is*. This is the second time Dani has come out to me...make that third. I have no idea what was different about this time as opposed to the others, but I approached the whole issue differently. I did not run away from it. I did not pretend it would magically go away. Yes, transition is not a comfortable subject, but I thought about it anyway. I cried a lot. It's part of the process. I still cry about things. Crying makes room for me to think about what is bothering me by washing away the pain and fear. It's only when I deal with what is bothering me do I feel free and at peace.
Anger has its place too, but anger is dangerous. Anger blinds you. It can prevent you from moving on because you're so caught up in feeling angry you never deal with what is making you angry. Anger can also make you more determined to succeed.
Quote from: Jordan on August 25, 2008, 07:38:25 AM
Whatever you do though, do not stop working with your partner, keep a emotionless open line of communication regarding every single therapist appointment, Hair removal, HRT meeting, ect... Do everything you can to keep communication open without anger and fighting or it will possibly drive dani into a "closet" of transition and she will continue to do things without you or your knowledge and that will only lead to more pain and anger.
That is what has happened to me and my relationship and it feels as if it is spiraling downwards, and I am trying my hardest to right it, but have no idea how to. maybe you have some suggestions.
Forgive me if I say that I think you need to take some of your own advice
You noted that you have continued down the path of transition without your wife. Remember that bullet train? Yeah, she's riding your train even though you may not have realized it and I am willing to bet she's feeling very out of control. I'm betting she's feeling very left behind right now and the only way for her to keep some semblance of "normalcy" is to pretend it will go away. My suggestion is to start with how *your wife* feels. Try to do this at a point when you've got lots of time to sit and talk. Have lots of tissues handy and be ready to just listen. Try starting with something like this - "Honey, I realize my transition hasn't been easy for you. I've tried to keep you informed and aware of what I've been doing, but I've realized that maybe I haven't been doing the best job of listening to you. I'd like to change that. Will you talk to me? I promise to listen and I promise not to interrupt and I promise not to get angry with you. I love you very much and don't want to lose you. Will you talk to me?" Dani made sure that I knew that she felt that my feelings were valid, even the irrational ones. And she directly asked me how *she* could help *me*. It could also be your wife is afraid to talk to anyone. It sounds like she really needs to though. If you can't get your wife to talk to you, perhaps see if she is open to seeing a therapist (either by herself or with you.) Be sure to let your wife know that she is not "crazy" for needing a therapist, but that you want to give her a place that she feels safe to talk. You may also want to point your wife here. I've found Susan's to be a wonderfully accepting place. If she feels forums are too public (or if she doesn't want you to read her posts at first), see if she wants to join the #SOTalk room. It's pretty low traffic and I'm usually there most of the day since I'm still job hunting. I'm also open to private chats if she wants to talk with someone who is and will be going through what she is. There are also support groups such as PFLAG, but personally I didn't feel comfortable sitting in a room with strangers staring at me talking about myself. Still mention it to your wife, she may feel differently. Knowing that she is not alone can be a very big help. Another thing I found that helped me was to write (or in my case type) up my feelings. I did them in a 'blog' style but have not actually posed them anywhere. It felt good to put down how I'm feeling and more importantly *why*. Figuring out *why* I felt the way I did, helped me understand the fear and deal with it.
I know a lot of people during transition focus on themselves because they need to. But sometimes they get a little too focused on how they feel, that they ignore their partner. That makes the partner feel isolated and alone and scared. For a while after Dani accepted transition, we spent a lot of time talking about her. I rather directly came out and said "is this all we're going to talk about now?" It was kind of sensory overload. I need some time to process the influx of new data before getting the next batch. Dani didn't even realize what she was doing. But she was willing to slow things down and wait for me to catch up so that *we* could go on together.
In another post of mine, a comment was made that it is not just your transition. Your spouse is also transitioning and you need to be aware of that. I firmly believe this, because I'm living it. It is an adjustment for me as well and it takes me longer because I cannot understand the need that Dani feels. But I accept it is there, and that for Dani to be happy and to remain the person I love, she must transition. And I must walk that path with her.
In the end it may come down to that you both go your separate ways. That possibility still exists for Dani and myself, although I believe it is an extremely tiny possibility. I acknowledge it exists though, because I feel that it is foolish not to. Dani and I are working very hard to make sure that this possibility does *not* happen. We do not *want* it to happen. However, should it happen, I know that Dani and I will have tried everything we possibly could have to make our relationship work first.
Quote from: Jordan on August 25, 2008, 07:38:25 AM
I wish you the best of luck windrider and dani
Thank you
I also wish you and your wife the best.
Oh, and sorry for the long post
WR
