So why not?

[Just Kate]

As I've always understood it, non-ops are people who do transition, they just don't have SRS. People who don't transition at all face a different set of difficulties again, I agree, but I think there's a fair bit of overlap, especially if one's open about having GID.

Mina.

I agree with you, but based on Susan's statement concerning this board, this is the best place I fit.

"This is a forum where transsexuals who are unable or unwilling to transitition, or have SRS/GRS can discuss the issues they face in their daily lives. This is their area, give them the respect each of you expect for yourselves.  I have also created a non-op peer support group."

[V M]

If I win the lotery, in all sincerity I would arange a date for surgery for both heatherrose and Janet.

Cindy

Humf, Virginia got left out again  Puts her puffy lip out

[Cindy]

Janet, Heather Rose and Virginia, here's the plan.
We'll meet up in our pink combat uniform with SOPs badge. Nice high heel boots ala Charlie's Angels. Get our hair done and a bit of lippy and nail extensions. Janet and Virginia rob the bank. Heather Rose has the escape vehicle. We'll meet up at the SRS clinic, have FFS and SRS and any other s available and disapear into the sunset.

What do I do to share the loot? I made up the plan silly!

LoL
Cindy James

[mina.magpie]

I agree with you, but based on Susan's statement concerning this board, this is the best place I fit.

It's the best place either myself or Janet fit too hon, whatever might change in the future.

We have alot to offer one another, and having a section like this is a really awesome opportunity because I've not come across anything like it before, and considering the animosity non-ops or non-transitioners face from the HBS and "true transsexual" camps, amongst others, we need to stick together instead of dividing up even further. I understand that you and I won't face all the same challenges, and that we will have different takes on things, but that doesn't prevent us from offering a helping hand or a shoulder to cry on.

Mina.

[V M]

Janet, Heather Rose and Virginia, here's the plan.
We'll meet up in our pink combat uniform with SOPs badge. Nice high heel boots ala Charlie's Angels. Get our hair done and a bit of lippy and nail extensions. Janet and Virginia rob the bank. Heather Rose has the escape vehicle. We'll meet up at the SRS clinic, have FFS and SRS and any other s available and disapear into the sunset.

What do I do to share the loot? I made up the plan silly!

LoL
Cindy James

I like this plan 

[Just Kate]

It's the best place either myself or Janet fit too hon, whatever might change in the future.

We have alot to offer one another, and having a section like this is a really awesome opportunity because I've not come across anything like it before, and considering the animosity non-ops or non-transitioners face from the HBS and "true transsexual" camps, amongst others, we need to stick together instead of dividing up even further. I understand that you and I won't face all the same challenges, and that we will have different takes on things, but that doesn't prevent us from offering a helping hand or a shoulder to cry on.

Mina.

I can accept this.  I'm grateful to have the additional support.  I honestly wondered how many people would even frequent this new forum - well besides me and Joseph.

[SarahFaceDoom]

I think the distinction makes a difference to me. 

For most, GID is something they deal with by using hormones, surgery, etc.  They live as the other sex the best they can, and deal with stresses involving those choices.

For others, like me, we look for ways to deal with GID doing something other than hormones, surgery, etc.  We live as our birth sex or something resembling it the best we can, and deal with the stressed involving those choices.

The difference?

Nearly every single forum on the internet dealing with TS provides support to those who choose to deal with their GID the first way while there is next to no support for those who deal with their GID the second way.

I don't need a label to validate my identity, but I want people to know before they try to give me advice the fact that I'm not dealing with my GID the way most do and don't appreciate advice given along those paths.  I need different kind of support and not looked down upon for how I deal with my GID (not that anyone here has, but I've experienced that in the past).  The label is significant for others to know that surgery is not an option to me - it is not something I would get if conditions were right, something that I would get if I could afford it, it is not something that will ever be in my life.

All that said, I wouldn't prevent anyone from offering advice so long as they understand the choices we have made.

Honestly, you may think your experience is unique from others who are transitioning in diffrent ways than you, and have diffrent relationships to the operations--but really, you're not that diffrent from any of us.  A lot of your concerns about life are going to be shared by everyone else in the non-op community.

The non-op community as I interpreted it is for people, who for whatever reason, are not currently planning to have SRS.  Whether that's because they are too poor, or because they just don't trust the surgery, or just plain don't have any interest in that as part of their identity.

Even though you may think you and Janet may not have a lot in common, really, once you get past the reasons for not having the operation--your problems are going to be kind of similar in a lot of ways.  And your views on what makes up gender is going to be pretty similar as well.

You also should realize, that a lot of people are probably as far along as you in terms of the non-op thing.  For some it's still a question they have introspections about.  not everyone has to have black and white answers for everyday of their life.  Your experience and views can definitely help others who are non-op feel better about their situation and how their gender operates.  So i really don't think there's a need to seperate the community so quickly.  We still have a lot to learn from one another I suspect.

[cindybc]

Cheeeeeez theys gots big lotteries her in Canada to ya know. Probably enough to fund SRS for every TS on this board who wants it. Need an army of surgeons though. Maybe I could arrange for you all to get abducted by aliens and come back  "complete" in the bushes the next day "with no clothes on?"  "YIKESSSSS!"

[imaz]

I'm with Mina.M->-bleeped-<-ie on this. Even if I had the money and the health I wouldn't go there.

It's like breast implants, just don't like them and wouldn't go out with someone who had them, always liked smallish breasts anyway...

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to seriously mess with one's genitals. It's a matter of taste (no pun intended), just prefer the real thing whichever it may be.

If someone perceives this as an an attack on HBS etc it's pure projection IMHO.

Live and let live, and anyway didn't Susan intend this as a non-op space?

[SarahFaceDoom]

Cheeeeeez theys gots big lotteries her in Canada to ya know. Probably enough to fund SRS for every TS on this board who wants it. Need an army of surgeons though. Maybe I could arrange for you all to get abducted by aliens and come back  "complete" in the bushes the next day "with no clothes on?"  "YIKESSSSS!"

I should differentiate then slightly.  When I say cost, it's not a matter of whether I can afford it or not(I can't), but whether that is the best way to spend that amount of money in my life.  And with all of the concerns that i have about the surgery, and what it means/will do for me--I don't know that that amount of money wouldn't be put to better use getting rid of my debt, and then getting one of those 'off grid" houses that are apparently all the rage

Because honestly, the state of my genetalia is not something I feel should dictate the acceptance of my gender, both by others and myself.  It's something I wrestle with for sure.  But right now, my feeling is that SRS is a largely cosmetic surgery.  If there was a safe way to get a real fully functioning baby maker--then i would be all over that.  But paying a lot of money just to get my penis cosmetically altered so that I look a little better aesthetically--is something that troubles me.

[Just Kate]

Honestly, you may think your experience is unique from others who are transitioning in diffrent ways than you, and have diffrent relationships to the operations--but really, you're not that diffrent from any of us.  A lot of your concerns about life are going to be shared by everyone else in the non-op community.

I agree, non-transitioning would be a more accurate definition, but Susan is allowing me to consider myself non-op for the purpose of this forum, and I'm grateful for that.

"This is a forum where transsexuals who are unable or unwilling to transitition, or have SRS/GRS can discuss the issues they face in their daily lives. This is their area, give them the respect each of you expect for yourselves.  I have also created a non-op peer support group."

The non-op community as I interpreted it is for people, who for whatever reason, are not currently planning to have SRS.  Whether that's because they are too poor, or because they just don't trust the surgery, or just plain don't have any interest in that as part of their identity.

Even though you may think you and Janet may not have a lot in common, really, once you get past the reasons for not having the operation--your problems are going to be kind of similar in a lot of ways.  And your views on what makes up gender is going to be pretty similar as well.

You also should realize, that a lot of people are probably as far along as you in terms of the non-op thing.  For some it's still a question they have introspections about.  not everyone has to have black and white answers for everyday of their life.  Your experience and views can definitely help others who are non-op feel better about their situation and how their gender operates.  So i really don't think there's a need to seperate the community so quickly.  We still have a lot to learn from one another I suspect.

I appreciate your comments.

I transitioned once.  I can help others do the same insomuch as I experienced it, lived as a girl for years, and know how it is to live that lifestyle as a pre-op.  I start to differ though dramatically in that I de-transitioned without the intention to ever transition again.  I still deal with the same GID that forces so many others to choose transition, but my ideas about the source of my GID, and the choices I have to make concerning it are wildly different from others - so much so some find them offensive.  I still want to have support so would welcome help from anyone so long as their advice isn't to re-transition.

[SarahFaceDoom]

I'm with Mina.M->-bleeped-<-ie on this. Even if I had the money and the health I wouldn't go there.

It's like breast implants, just don't like them and wouldn't go out with someone who had them, always liked smallish breasts anyway...

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to seriously mess with one's genitals. It's a matter of taste (no pun intended), just prefer the real thing whichever it may be.

If someone perceives this as an an attack on HBS etc it's pure projection IMHO.

Live and let live, and anyway didn't Susan intend this as a non-op space?

I agree with a lot of this.  it's nice to find where the rest of us have been hiding on the message board, huh?

[cindybc]

oooooops sorry for the weird humor on the tail of a really well thought out post. Thank you Sarah.

Cindy  

[heatherrose]

Janet, Heather Rose and Virginia, here's the plan.
We'll meet up in our pink combat uniform with SOPs badge. Nice high heel boots ala Charlie's Angels. Get our hair done and a bit of lippy and nail extensions. Janet and Virginia rob the bank. Heather Rose has the escape vehicle. We'll meet up at the SRS clinic, have FFS and SRS and any other s available and disapear into the sunset.

What do I do to share the loot? I made up the plan silly!

Three conditions:

• 1) No one, but me, uses my hot pink anodized AR-15 with mother of pearl folding stock and diamond studded sights.
  2) Y'all pitch in for fuel.
  3) Roosevelt T, my bi-polar bear, called shotgun.
  
  
  

Good night all,
Time for this cowgirl to
saddle up and ride off
into the sunset or rather,
sunrise

[SarahFaceDoom]

I transitioned once.  I can help others do the same insomuch as I experienced it, lived as a girl for years, and know how it is to live that lifestyle as a pre-op.  I start to differ though dramatically in that I de-transitioned without the intention to ever transition again.  I still deal with the same GID that forces so many others to choose transition, but my ideas about the source of my GID, and the choices I have to make concerning it are wildly different from others - so much so some find them offensive.  I still want to have support so would welcome help from anyone so long as their advice isn't to re-transition.

So how do you deal with your GID?  If you don't mind me asking.  Do you identify outwardly to people as the gender you feel on the inside?  Or do you just life like you did before you came out?  How long were you transitioning before you de-transitioned?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.  I find de-transition stories interesting.

Did your faith have a role in your decision to de-transition?  How did you arrive at where you are currently on things?  If I'm not asking for too much of a biographical breakdown.

Do you want to be identified as a boy or a girl or neither at this point?

[imaz]

OK let's bring out another contentious issue about "non-ops"...

Some people out there fancy us for how we are, and some of us like that, it's also a sexual thing.

Go on, do your worst punks!

[cindybc]

Hi Sarah. I quite agree with you about the surgery. It was a scary proposition and I nearly opted not going for it. I felt comfortable enough in who I was, just annoying when I wen tot use the bathroom or a bathing suit at the beach but I had mostly accepted myself to be a woman and I went 57 years waiting to be a woman and anther five years later before the opportunity came my way.

I did as you did. First priorities came first, and I mean first priorities, considering I was still living on the street 22 years ago, so my first priority was to get a job and a place to live. When it came time to transition I had nothing to lose and come hell or high water I just did what I had to do one day at a time. Time was of no essence, years are numbered and I did what I had to do to feel good with who I was, and I did my best to be the best me I could be.

Cindy    

[Just Kate]

So how do you deal with your GID?  If you don't mind me asking.  Do you identify outwardly to people as the gender you feel on the inside?  Or do you just life like you did before you came out?  How long were you transitioning before you de-transitioned?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.  I find de-transition stories interesting.

Did your faith have a role in your decision to de-transition?  How did you arrive at where you are currently on things?  If I'm not asking for too much of a biographical breakdown.

Do you want to be identified as a boy or a girl or neither at this point?

Here is my post on this earlier in the forum for convenience in referencing.

Wow what difficult yet important questions.

1) Why? There are many reasons, but here are the main two.  I believe I would be able to offer more to this world remaining in my birth sex then to transition.  I wanted to learn how to deal with the symptoms of GID so that I might be able to offer and alternative to transition to others.

2) How do I cope?  I have learned about coping techniques from many, but for me specifically, I am open about myself with basically everyone.  I talk about it with my close confidants when I get down about it.  I try not to put myself into situations that provoke my GID symptoms.  Most importantly, I never ever try to pretend I do not have my condition - that only makes it worse.  I am still experimenting with other techniques - the current one is to try to present more androgynously but still identify as male.

I could never ever live life like I did before I transitioned.  I was living a lie back then - just as I was living a lie as a female.  I am a male with GID.  I need to deal with it as such.  I changed how I interacted with others.  I quit "acting" the part of the male, and started just being real with people.  It gets me odd looks and interactions, but people who give me a chance are okay with me.

My faith has a ton to do with my decision, but not all.  I had a powerful spiritual experience telling me that while I might be happy transitioning fully, I could do a lot more good in this world by not transitioning.  I acted on that faith, even though it meant a life of uncertainty.  I was happy as a female.  Things are different now, but I am managing.  I have to deal with people perceiving me as male while I don't feel I am inside which is very uncomfortable, but I do my best to be as open with people as I can.

For incredibly more detail, I suggest you read this: http://gidinteralia.blogspot.com/2009/03/who-am-i.html
I hear it cures insomnia.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I transitioned at 19 (10 years ago) and de-transitioned just before I turned 22.

[V M]

OK let's bring out another contentious issue about "non-ops"...

Some people out there fancy us for how we are, and some of us like that, it's also a sexual thing.

Go on, do your worst punks!

Virginia puts on a Sex Pistols album and dances around wearing plaid trousers and suspenders 

[imaz]

Frankly I think I could do a lot more for my faith by transitioning. The World needs more LGBT Muslims if only to show Islam in a more favourable light.