Wrong question: When did you first decide you wanted to become a woman?

[GinaDouglas]

I was watching a transgender theme movie (Beautiful Boxer)today, and a reporter asked the transwoman, "When did you first decide you wanted to become a woman?"

I thought this was perfectly appropos of the way ->-bleeped-<- is misunderstood by the mainstream.

The proper query would be, "When did you first realize that your body was the wrong gender?"

There is no "becoming" women.  We always were female.

There is no decision, there is only recognition and/or acceptance.

[V M]

I thought I was a girl as a child. Then one day my mom and sisters pointed out that I was different. I was dis-made. It was at that moment I wanted to change this curse that had been placed upon me.

I tried as hard as I could to "act" like a man. But I was only acting and I'm not a good actor. Nearly everyone could still see the girl in me. Some ignored it, others would challenge me on it

I'm just amazed that it took so long and going through so much s--- for me to do something about it 

[Zelane]

The question its correct.

You arent being born a woman. You become one. Thats a normal process for girls to become women. Its called growing up.

But you are correct on being born female.

[Cindy]

I think it's a typical response from those who don't face the situations we are born in to. Unless you experience the situation most people have no empathy for anyone who isn't in "their" normality, be it gender, sexuality or even bringing in the disabled and the ill.  I can hear it now " What was like realising you didn't have legs?"

BTW what was the movie like? I haven't heard of it before.

Cindy

[Nero]

I think it's a typical response from those who don't face the situations we are born in to. Unless you experience the situation most people have no empathy for anyone who isn't in "their" normality, be it gender, sexuality or even bringing in the disabled and the ill.  I can hear it now " What was like realising you didn't have legs?"

Cindy

Thing is though, most people would consider it terribly insensitive to ask a disabled person that. But not us.

[Cindy]

Hi Nero,
A close friend had a similar question. He is paralysed below the upper torso following a tumour on his spine. He was operated on at age 13. 40 plus years ago. I was having coffee with him when someone asked. How did it feel to be told you would never walk again? The conversation was in a circumstance of facing adversity, but still rude.

BTW if you wish to know what it's like to be different, get a friend to push you around in a wheelchair, and try and "look" disabled not just I broke a leg sking. You become totally invisible. (Sorry for the generalisation here) Men push past you and walk in front of you and never give way. Women give way and smile. Children don't know what to do, their parents do not teach them acceptable behaviour. Shop assistants ignore you. You are in the way.

I'm not in a chair but my wife is and very disabled. Sorry feeling a bit sad had one of those days as detailed above.

Got off the subject as usual.

Sorry a bit depressed and going down hill.
I think it's time for me to log off and go find a crying place, sorry

Cindy

[Nero]

Hi Nero,
A close friend had a similar question. He is paralysed below the upper torso following a tumour on his spine. He was operated on at age 13. 40 plus years ago. I was having coffee with him when someone asked. How did it feel to be told you would never walk again? The conversation was in a circumstance of facing adversity, but still rude.

BTW if you wish to know what it's like to be different, get a friend to push you around in a wheelchair, and try and "look" disabled not just I broke a leg sking. You become totally invisible. (Sorry for the generalisation here) Men push past you and walk in front of you and never give way. Women give way and smile. Children don't know what to do, their parents do not teach them acceptable behaviour. Shop assistants ignore you. You are in the way.

I'm not in a chair but my wife is and very disabled. Sorry feeling a bit sad had one of those days as detailed above.

Got off the subject as usual.

Sorry a bit depressed and going down hill.
I think it's time for me to log off and go find a crying place, sorry

Cindy

aww I'm sorry to hear that, sweetie.  <big nero hug>

[Natasha]

You arent being born a woman. You become one. Thats a normal process for girls to become women. Its called growing up.

But you are correct on being born female.

agreed.  to say "i'm a woman" when you have never lived as a woman is a little bit of a stretch, wouldn't cha say?

[El]

I dont disagree with that but its still a bit of a poorly phrased question that hints at the low general awareness and understanding of the cis-gendered community. Yes its a stretch to say "im a woman" when you ahve never lived as one but for (i assume) the majority of transwomen saying they have "really" lived as a man would also be a stretch, its easier to call yourself the gender you feel inside than label yourself as the gender you were born as or as a "->-bleeped-<-". I think the real problem is that for cis-gendered folk we are A becoming Z where in reality we are somewhere inbetween from the start just trying to fit in with one of the catagories.

Just my poorly written 2 cents...........

(I am androgyne identifying and i dont know your views on our little subcatagory and hope you dont feel insulted by me talking for you more conventional transfolk, the topic caught my eye)

[Keroppi]

BTW if you wish to know what it's like to be different, get a friend to push you around in a wheelchair, and try and "look" disabled not just I broke a leg sking. You become totally invisible. (Sorry for the generalisation here) Men push past you and walk in front of you and never give way. Women give way and smile. Children don't know what to do, their parents do not teach them acceptable behaviour. Shop assistants ignore you. You are in the way.

And if they have any question, they'll ask the person pushing rather than you direct. "What's his/her name?" Why don't you ask him/her yourself? (Sorry I can't help but to respond to this.)

[Shana A]

I've always been who I am. From day one I had an awareness of being different, not fitting my assigned gender. The rest of life from there has been a journey, trying to understand this unique gift, and how best to manifest it.

I loved Beautiful Boxer, it's a powerful movie!

Z

[Asfsd4214]

agreed.  to say "i'm a woman" when you have never lived as a woman is a little bit of a stretch, wouldn't cha say?

Is it also a stretch to say "I'm a man" if are not mentally, and have lived pretty much none of your adult life as one?

If there is such a thing as brainsex, then the notion that you've always been your mental gender may in fact be literally true.

I have never felt like a guy, I'm not even entirely sure what it's like. So is it really more accurate to say I'm a male?

[Zelane]

Man and woman, those words and concepts are social constructs. Both roles have a set of stereotypes and parameters that dictate in which one you fit or are being set by the society.

Its might not the same among different cultures. As for example being a woman in America its not the same in some Arabian countries.


Being male or female its part of your gender. So if you know your gender its female, I believe its correct for you to say you are female. Even if your body isnt exactly femalish.

[Natasha]

Man and woman, those words and concepts are social constructs. Both roles have a set of stereotypes and parameters that dictate in which one you fit or are being set by the society.

Its might not the same among different cultures. As for example being a woman in America its not the same in some Arabian countries.


Being male or female its part of your gender. So if you know your gender its female, I believe its correct for you to say you are female. Even if your body isnt exactly femalish.

agreed again. i can understand when someone says "i've always been female", "my gender identity is female" or 'i self-identify as female" but to say you're "a woman" [a social construct], when in reality you aren't, is deceptive imo.

"i'm a woman"  really?  are you "a woman" socially?  do you live, work, go to school, etc as "a woman"?

[dyssonance]

All agree in recognising the fact that females exist in the human species; today as always they make up about one half of humanity. And yet we are told that femininity is in danger; we are exhorted to be women, remain women, become women. It would appear, then, that every female human being is not necessarily a woman; to be so considered she must share in that mysterious and threatened reality known as femininity.

One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman.

Just saying (or, actually, quoting, in this case).

[LordKAT]

To answer the original question, I NEVER chose to be a woman or even female.

[Diane Elizabeth]

  Maybe the answer would be "When did you decide to become a man?"   I know that it doesn't answer the question.  I have figured out that I never considered myself a "man" in all of my adult life.  So what am I?  And how did I get here?  I am working on that.  Slightly off topic.  Sorry.  DyLen

[Constance]

In the book Transgender History, Susan Stryker defines man and woman as gender roles, and male and female as physical manifestations. So based on that idea, the question seems to me at least to be not all that off-base.

At a genetic level, the person would still have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. This would seem to indicate that at that low level, the person would still be male even if the anatomy had been corrected to the proper gender as experienced by the person.

But, that's just me.

[Asfsd4214]

In the book Transgender History, Susan Stryker defines man and woman as gender roles, and male and female as physical manifestations. So based on that idea, the question seems to me at least to be not all that off-base.

At a genetic level, the person would still have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. This would seem to indicate that at that low level, the person would still be male even if the anatomy had been corrected to the proper gender as experienced by the person.

But, that's just me.

So then, by that reasoning, people with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome are also "at that low level" men? Despite being at every practical level women, to the point that had we not been this scientifically advanced, we'd have little reason to suspect they were in ANY level male?

I just have to question putting so much stock in chromosomes. Why are they the defacto "official" definition of male vs female, when they're easily one of the least practically differential traits.

[Constance]

My guess is that the chromosome thing is related to fact ova and spermatazoa are needed to reproduce. At that level, the binary seems to be supported. Generally, a person with two X chromosomes produces ova and a person with one each X and Y chromosomes produces spermatazoa.

That said, there are persons who are born with two X and one Y chromosomes.

At least according to Stryker, man and woman are roles. Male and female are biology.