Cindi answers questions about the Mormon Church

[Tiffany2]

  It truly is a shame but the mainstream church also tends to twist scripture to suit their needs and ignore or attempt to seek a different meaning to the scriptures that go against their belief or doctrine.
  I cannot speak for others but I have found that Christians can be more hateful than the non-Christians. At least the non-Christians have the good grace to just flat tell you they don't believe or don't want to hear it without getting mad. Most Christians in the mainstream get flat hateful though. It's as though that proud judgemental spirit can't stand it when it is overcome by the word of God.
  I'm sorry for rambling. I've just been blessed by those here that still believe in spite of being cast out and blessed by learning from those who may no longer believe, yet have so much to offer.
  Tiffany

[cindianna_jones]

I have met many people in my life. They represent the world's major faiths.  I believe that most people are decent caring human beings.  When faced with us, it is outside their realm of experience.  After alll folks, look how hard it is for us to accept ourselves? How long does it take us to come to the decision that it is okay to pursue this path? For some of us, it is decades. So I cut them some slack.

I have found it counterproductive to find things wrong with the church I grew up in.  I could itterate hundreds of things that are wrong with it.  And I can do the same thing with the Catholic church.  But the thing is, people hold their beliefs to be sacred.  They rely on their beliefs to live their own lives, to get through tough times, and to accept death.  To belittle them is only reflecting the hatred that we often receive.  It serves no purpose but to alienate everyone.

The major religions teach love, charity, and forgiveness.  I have no problem living alligned with those fundamentals.  So I do.

I have discussed many issues with my children as they have grown. I challenge their thinking. I pose questions that they can not answer.  Much of what we discuss concerns pollitical thinking and lately, much of it has been about our current war and treatment of aliens and the poor.  They are very loyal members of the LDS faith.  Whenever we get hung up on a particular problem, I always ask them:  "What would Christ do?" 

They are abaondoning their fundamentalist thinking in favor of love, charity, and forgiveness.  They have a unique perspective to share now in their church, faith, and community.

Cindi

[Witch of Sadness]

Dear Tiffany,

It truly is a shame but the mainstream church also tends to twist scripture to suit their needs and ignore or attempt to seek a different meaning to the scriptures that go against their belief or doctrine.

Unfortunately, you are right! But it doesn't concern only Christian churches but all religious orthodox monotheistic religions!
In the orthodox Judaism is lent to Thora so as if women had nothing to say; homosexual are ill and pervert (they wouldn't be real Jews through that) and Israel would be a "theocracy".
It is similar in the Islam and partial also in the Buddhism.

I cannot speak for others but I have found that Christians can be more hateful than the non-Christians.

Seem it so at least!
But, if I see, such as transsexual people am treated in other countries and other religions, I am not so sure!
Dalia International, the well- known Jewish singer often found letters and e-mails full of hate in her mail, written by orthodox Jews. Bülent Ersoy, a well known and popular Turkish singer, had to wait to after her transsition for 10 years till she was appreciated as a woman. Today transsexual people are beaten, raped and murdered in Islamic countries just like in Christian countries, too. Others commit suicide, like a Jehova Witness who didn't stand the pressure of her family and the sect any more.

Most Christians in the mainstream get flat hateful though. It's as though that proud judgemental spirit can't stand it when it is overcome by the word of God.

The spirit of "I am better because I am a Christian"; comes, that these churches need, to increase about other.
They don't raise an existing self-confidence for them because by the own rise and the humiliation of other churches or people.
My own sister who lives in Oklahoma is the best example of it.
When she learned in the year 1992 that I wanted to have divided because I was transsexual, she declined every contact to me. When I wrote to her that I went to a church of the baptists, she sent me a Bible of the "Clup 700" of Pat Robertson. Only if I would accept her faith and would change into a "man" again, she would have been talk with me!
She was in her youth what is called a "wild girl" in Germany. She has 5 children of four different fathers whom she let back except for a child in Germany. A child has a problem with drugs. Another child has lived in a woman relation for many years. And a child had gone to prison because he has killed a homosexual.
By her feelings of guilt, don't be a good mother (so as it expects the society), driven her into the arms of this fundamentalism. They let her feelings of guilt think that she would be better than other people because she is a Christian!

WoS

[cindianna_jones]

Let's keep this topic... on topic please.  I am not here to denegrate someone's religion.  I'd like to honestly answer questions about the Mormon Church.  I will do so as objectively as I can.  I am not a member.

Cindi

[Tiffany2]

Cindi;

  Some young men spoke with me from the Mormon church in the next town. They talked a lot about Joseph Smith but never mentioned Jesus.
  I hope this does not sound hateful or such but do they mention Jesus or preach Jesus? Or do they esteem Joseph Smith above him?
  I can understand why most churches tend to disagree with transsexuals but this is something else I wondered which I never had time to ask.
  Also; if a male-to-female transsexual married a female-to-male transsexual or a straaight person of the opposite sex would they excommunicate them if they found out since such marriages would be scripturally sound.
  Since I am not out I can't even ask these things to local preachers.
  I hope you can be of assistance.
 
  Tiffany

[cindianna_jones]

Cindi;

  Some young men spoke with me from the Mormon church in the next town. They talked a lot about Joseph Smith but never mentioned Jesus.
  I hope this does not sound hateful or such but do they mention Jesus or preach Jesus? Or do they esteem Joseph Smith above him?

The story of Joseph Smith is that he is confused about religion, goes to the forest in prayer, and is visited by God and Christ.  That's the short version.  LDS people do not place anyone above God.  Prophets are not revered as holy icons are in other religions.  So you may have remembered the first part of the story or perhaps they didn't get to finish the lesson.

  I can understand why most churches tend to disagree with transsexuals but this is something else I wondered which I never had time to ask.
  Also; if a male-to-female transsexual married a female-to-male transsexual or a straaight person of the opposite sex would they excommunicate them if they found out since such marriages would be scripturally sound.
  Since I am not out I can't even ask these things to local preachers.

Actually, within the LDS doctrine, it is not scriptually sound.  I was excommunicated because I held the priesthood.  When they thought that I had a surgical procedure (I only actually had my ears pierced), they excommunicated me and stripped me of my priesthood.  Because I let this happen, I am a "son of perdition" and shall live in eternal darkness with Lucifer.  A female can never hold the priesthood.  So an FTM is out of luck.  Now, if neither is excommunicated, get married and then have the surgeries and are not excommunicated.... they might be okay.  The thing is, they will not excommuncate everyone.  I was a very active and visible member, so they tried extra hard with me.

  I hope you can be of assistance.
 
  Tiffany

I hope that helps.  I'm getting the feeling that you have other questions that deal with Christianity in general.  PM me with them. 

Cindi

[Tiffany2]

Cindi;

  Thank you very much for your answers. You're such a blessing.
  I have a couple of questions but I'l go one at a time.
  First off: Where do the Mormons get the feeling that being transgender or transsexual is a damnable sin? ( No offense but that's the impression I get.)
  Do they get their view from church doctrine?
  Do they get their view from the Bible or the Book Of Mormon?
  If from the Book Of Mormon, which section?
  I still have a book from the visiting elders that evangelized our neighborhood and would like to look it up.
  Thank you so much in advance.

  Tiffany

  PS: I am such an airhead at times! Didn't someone say they don't believe in hell? If so do they just excommunicate and where do those excommunicated end up. I'm sorry but I have to run and don't have time to backtrack through the posts for this right now.
  Thanks again.

[taylor]

Cindi,

Why is it a sin to drink Caffeine and yet they own huge stock in Pepsi??

Why do they believe that Joseph Smith really found some book that has never been seen again?

Thanks ahead for your answers...

Oh and who is Joseph Smith really  before he found the writings.

Peace,
Taylor

[cindianna_jones]

Cindi;
  First off: Where do the Mormons get the feeling that being transgender or transsexual is a damnable sin? ( No offense but that's the impression I get.)

Mormon's believe that we are all literal sons and daughters of God.  Our spirits were born female and male before this earthly life.  When we are born here, our spirits inhabit the new bodies created for us.  Although it is not supported by the doctrine of the church, the natural line of thinking is that a male body will be given to a male soul.

  Do they get their view from church doctrine?

Yes as I have described above

  Do they get their view from the Bible or the Book Of Mormon?

It very likely is from the Doctrine and Covenants. There are many references in there which define the doctrine.  The D&C was written by Joseph Smith during his lifetime as questions would come up concerning church doctrine and as he received revelation.  It was his version of a blog.

I am such an airhead at times! Didn't someone say they don't believe in hell? If so do they just excommunicate and where do those excommunicated end up. I'm sorry but I have to run and don't have time to backtrack through the posts for this right now.
  Thanks again.

Correct, there is no hell in the Mormon faith.  Everyone will receive some degree of glory commensurate with what they have earned.  Only sons of perdition will be cast out to abide eternity with Lucifer.  Most who are excommunicated will not qualify as a son of perdition. For example, if you commit adultry and are excommunicated, you are not placed in this category.  To be a son of perdition, you supposedly have a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ and you then deny him.


Posted on: October 31, 2006, 10:51:46 PM

Cindi,

Why is it a sin to drink Caffeine and yet they own huge stock in Pepsi??

The "Word of Wisdom" in the doctrine and covenants is where this comes from.  In it it says that hot drinks, alcohol, and tobacco are "not for the body".  In its time, hot drinks were coffee and tea. Tobacco meant specifically "chew" at the time. There is also mention of seasons where meat can be ingested. Although it was "given" to Joseph Smith in revelation, the church did not officially accept the "Word of Wisdom" as doctrine until it was voted on by the church membership many years later in a conference at Salt Lake City. 

The "Word of Wisdom" also grew to envelope smoking tobacco and caffinated drinks sometime later.  This came to include soft drinks that contained caffeine.  From my perspective, the spirit of the Word of Wisdom is to not ingest things that are bad for you.... to eat healthy and exercise.

The ban on caffinated soft drinks has been officially removed by church counsel in recent years. It is now okay to drink Diet Coke.  And my children have taken up a new habit.

The Mormon Church has never had stock in any company.  There has been a corporation of the presidency (the top three leaders) who invested funds in the stock market for years. The returns were always reinvested. (The church leaders are given a very modest stipend for living expenses, but their homes and other belongings are typically already owned prior to them being called to their positions). And for some time, it held stock in a prominent soft drink company, food retailers, and others.  This corporation has sold off all stock in corporations during the past few years.

Now... the church has been purchasing land in Missouri for many years.  I don't know how much it owns, but it is a bundle.  When the end time comes, the saints will return there to set up the new Zion.

Why do they believe that Joseph Smith really found some book that has never been seen again?

According to church history, the "Book of Mormon" inscribed on gold plates, was taken by an angel.  There were 12 witnesses who were allowed to see these plates before they were taken from the earth.  Although some of these witnesses later left the church, they never denied their testimony of actually seeing the plates.

Oh and who is Joseph Smith really  before he found the writings.

Joseph Smith was a farmboy in rural New York state.  In 1820, at the age of 14, he prayed to God for help in determining which church he should join.  God and Christ appeared to him and told him to join none of them.  He was told that the true church had been lost from the earth and that it would be restored through him in later visions (revelation).

Keep those questions coming.

Cindi

[Hazumu]

Just a comment;

The proscription against hot drinks, etc., resembles the proscriptions in Jewish and islamic religions against eating certain foods in that, stripped of their religious imperatives, they are ways of staying healthy(ier) by avoiding foods that can be some sort of risk to the body.

Both Judaism and Islamism proscribe pork which, improperly raised/prepared, can introduce tricinomas (sp?) parasites into the body -- best to just make it a taboo.

So, alcohol is bad, so's tobacco, and for good measure let's add coffee 'cause there are those who start to, y'know, freak a little around the edges if they don't get at least four cups a day.

But after a while, the original wisdom can get lost to those who LIKE their dogma and ritual piled on thick.  But that's true of anywhere.  A very few get it -- really GET it, and the vast majority are doing monkey-see-monkey-do.

There, I stuck my oar in the water!  Which way did it turn the boat?

Karen

[Witch of Sadness]

Dear Cindi,

Let's keep this topic... on topic please.  I am not here to denegrate someone's religion.  I'd like to honestly answer questions about the Mormon Church.  I will do so as objectively as I can.  I am not a member.

We are on the topic!
Transsexual people are ostracized and excommunicated by churches because not only Mormons concerns this!
We both have a Mormon background and have experienced as this "church" acts. We handle our knowledge about the sect the Mormons differently, this is everything!

Dear Tiffany,

Some young men spoke with me from the Mormon church in the next town. They talked a lot about Joseph Smith but never mentioned Jesus.

These are one of their tactics of brainwashing to make you a Mormon. Howe more sooner you ignore your old faith, leave the familiar  way, you are sooner ready to go new ways. And this sect also has to offer much for conservative people: Family values are held up (however, hidden from adultery and rapes of children). Strict separation of the gender roles (it is hidden that women are less worth in the LDS in proportion to men). People into crisis situations think that they found in such a grouping help but they real found the experience of enslavement. From a post of a former member of the LDS:

"Excellent.  I own 8 or 10 copies which I give out to "prospects" and did give to Mo-friends but got all but one of those gifts returned. ;-)  I especially like that Dr. Wood wasn't trying to dis the Mos when he started looking, he was LOOKING.  He couldn't believe what he found, but what he found was a good bit of what I "knew" yet had buried under BS to fool myself into staying a member.  His book should be read by everyone, Mo, exMo, never-Mo, American, English, Indain, et.al. the world."

He talk about this book: The Mormon Conspiracy by Charles L. Wood.

Into this the author tells that he had two copies of this book sent to Mormon which they have returned. Also this is part of the thinking of a Mormon: Declining everything which could destroy the faith of its own. Decline everything which criticizes the "only true Church"!

I hope this does not sound hateful or such but do they mention Jesus or preach Jesus? Or do they esteem Joseph Smith above him?

Your question is not filled with hatred but honest!
Well, Joseph Smith is appreciated like Mohamed with the Muslims. But he isn't higher than Joseph Smith; so often speaking Mormons about him even if it may happen one so. However,they tells many stories at the Mormons about him for it these either are lied or are only half correct. An example:

Mormons claim that Joseph Smith was always accused or sentenced innocently in front of court. But today, it is prove, that he was accused at least rightly once. He had given a murder order to a Mr Rockwell, one of his narrowest intimate friends. He should kill the governor of Illinois then because this put pressure on the Mormons allegedly. Rockwell was caught but could flee. Joseph Smith escape himself the threatening condemnation also by flight. He was protected by his faith supporters (like the Taliban with Osama bin Laden).

I can understand why most churches tend to disagree with transsexuals but this is something else I wondered which I never had time to ask.

I cannot understand it !!!
A message of the love and the with each other for all people shall the Christianity  be. Without exception! And these churches and sects make these exceptions anyway: Women are excluded by ecclesiastical offices (as in the case of the Mormons), dykes, homosexuals and transsexual sentenced and the faith of other people made ridiculous! Where is Chist there?

Also; if a male-to-female transsexual married a female-to-male transsexual or a straaight person of the opposite sex would they excommunicate them if they found out since such marriages would be scripturally sound.

This depends on this whether the church knows this or not? If they knows it, both will be in the position to be baptized, however, being allowed to be never sealed in the temple the Mormons to each other, what is very important to Mormons. Mormons are forced with that to lie over their past.

Again Cindi,

The story of Joseph Smith is that he is confused about religion, goes to the forest in prayer, and is visited by God and Christ.  That's the short version.  LDS people do not place anyone above God.  Prophets are not revered as holy icons are in other religions.  So you may have remembered the first part of the story or perhaps they didn't get to finish the lesson.

This is what today's LDS church tells to the people. But it isn't the whole truth. It is the truth that there are four different versions of this "first vision" which told to Joseph Smith. A version means that he had seen only angels and the talk wasn't from God and Jesus Christ yet. Another version only talks about God or Christ. And a version even of a green dressed man. The story to which you refer was extra written for a newspaper publisher (I think it was in the year 1838 or 1842).

Actually, within the LDS doctrine, it is not scriptually sound.  I was excommunicated because I held the priesthood.  When they thought that I had a surgical procedure (I only actually had my ears pierced), they excommunicated me and stripped me of my priesthood.  Because I let this happen, I am a "son of perdition" and shall live in eternal darkness with Lucifer.  A female can never hold the priesthood.

And after the understanding (doctrines) of the Mormons you may be never baptized again unless you would dress up as a man and submit to their norms. To this you see anyway how silly and ignorant this sect is !

WoS

PS: Even there are enough proves, that Joseph Smith NEVER wrote the Book of Mormon or translate the Book of Abraham Just goooooooogle!

[cindianna_jones]

Again, I do not wish to denigrate the LDS faith or any other in this thread.  I do not agree with the Church on many topics but I am witholding my personal feelings to answer questions in this thread. I served a mission for the church and was a gospel doctrine instructor for several years.

I wish here only to answer doctrine or historical questions about the LDS faith as "they" see it to the best of my ability.

I believe that these facts stand on their own to validate or condem the organization. This will not offend any abiding member. And it will help those of us here who are curious to understand what they believe.

Cindi

[Tiffany2]

Wos;
  When I said that I can understand why some churches have their views I actually meant that I understand their train of thought from the scriptures they use even though in many areas we may disagree. I do hope that I didn't appear to be just blindly agreeing to them.

Cindi;
  I too try to keep my feelings out of these matters as I would rather learn with an open mind.
  Does this doctrine of women not being able to hold a position of any form of priesthood come from the scriptures, Book of Mormon or church doctrine?
  Also; is the reason for being stripped of your position completely because of being female or partially from being trans?
  I already realize that if I transition I may never go any farther in most churches.  I can honour their views even though I may disagree. The thing is that I know why most of the churches I've attended feel that way and which scriptures they use.
  Thank you again.

  Tiffany

[Steph]

Hello Cindi.

This is a great thread, it brings back many, many memories some good and some not so good.  However, that aside will there ever be, or is there a place for me if I wished to return to the Mormon church.  I often felt that if I returned the only person who would know about me and my past would be god themself.  And surely he would understand.  I've often thought that it wasn't my fault that I was assigned the wrong vessel to carry my soul, and if it wasn't my fault, who's was it.

Steph

[cindianna_jones]

Does this doctrine of women not being able to hold a position of any form of priesthood come from the scriptures, Book of Mormon or church doctrine?

There are several scriptural references in the Bible and the other standard works of the church that refer to the priesthood given to men or sons of Aaron.  Women are not specifically denied the priesthood in scripture.  However, the priesthood is specifically a patriarchal order.

Also; is the reason for being stripped of your position completely because of being female or partially from being trans?

The reasons I was excommunicated specifically were:

1) Denying my priesthood.
2) Refusing church counsel from my priesthood leaders.
3) Denying my belief in Christ through items 1 and 2.  For this, I am a "son of perdition" and worthy only to dwell with Lucifer in everlasting darkness.

During the "counsel" I received, I was told that if I were to persist in changing my sex, I would be commiting a sin second only to murder. This has no basis in official church doctrine as far as I have been able to discover.

Publicly available doctrinal references have only one reference to transsexualism and that is in determining the need for a disciplinary council of the church:

"Disciplinary councils may also be convened to consider a member's standing in the Church following serious transgression such as abortion, transsexual operation, attempted murder, rape, forcible sexual abuse, intentionally inflicting serious physical injuries on others, adultery, fornication, homosexual relations, child abuse (sexual or physical), spouse abuse, deliberate abandonment of family responsibilities, robbery, burglary, embezzlement, theft, sale of illegal drugs, fraud, perjury, or false swearing.

.....

Decisions of the council are to be made with inspiration. A council can reach one of four decisions: (1) no action, (2) formal probation, (3) disfellowshipment, or (4) excommunication."

Posted on: November 01, 2006, 08:46:41 AM

Hello Cindi.

This is a great thread, it brings back many, many memories some good and some not so good.  However, that aside will there ever be, or is there a place for me if I wished to return to the Mormon church.  I often felt that if I returned the only person who would know about me and my past would be god themself.  And surely he would understand.  I've often thought that it wasn't my fault that I was assigned the wrong vessel to carry my soul, and if it wasn't my fault, who's was it.

Steph

There is no doctrine that supports a decision on this question.  It would be left to the local church authorities.

You may submit yourself as a candidate for baptism.  You will be asked for your birth certificate for the pertinant information.  You will be asked if the information you provide is accurate.  This not only proves who you are but is important for the church records which are used for various ordinances and such.  If your parents were members, their children of record are cross referenced.  Also, there are many cases where marital status is questionable. These issues must be resolved before admission into the church.

You may attend as a non member with no problems.  I know from experience.  They will try to convert you.

Cindi

[Steph]

Does this doctrine of women not being able to hold a position of any form of priesthood come from the scriptures, Book of Mormon or church doctrine?

There are several scriptural references in the Bible and the other standard works of the church that refer to the priesthood given to men or sons of Aaron.  Women are not specifically denied the priesthood in scripture.  However, the priesthood is specifically a patriarchal order.

Also; is the reason for being stripped of your position completely because of being female or partially from being trans?

The reasons I was excommunicated specifically were:

1) Denying my priesthood.
2) Refusing church counsel from my priesthood leaders.
3) Denying my belief in Christ through items 1 and 2.  For this, I am a "son of perdition" and worthy only to dwell with Lucifer in everlasting darkness.

During the "counsel" I received, I was told that if I were to persist in changing my sex, I would be commiting a sin second only to murder. This has no basis in official church doctrine as far as I have been able to discover.

Posted on: November 01, 2006, 08:46:41 AM

Hello Cindi.

This is a great thread, it brings back many, many memories some good and some not so good.  However, that aside will there ever be, or is there a place for me if I wished to return to the Mormon church.  I often felt that if I returned the only person who would know about me and my past would be god themself.  And surely he would understand.  I've often thought that it wasn't my fault that I was assigned the wrong vessel to carry my soul, and if it wasn't my fault, who's was it.

Steph

There is no doctrine that supports a decision on this question.  It would be left to the local church authorities.

You may submit yourself as a candidate for baptism.  You will be asked for your birth certificate for the pertinant information.  You will be asked if the information you provide is accurate.  This not only proves who you are but is important for the church records which are used for various ordinances and such.  If your parents were members, their children of record are cross referenced.  Also, there are many cases where marital status is important. These issues must be resolved before admission into the church.

You may attend as a non member with no problems.  I know from experience.  They will try to convert you.

Cindi

Interesting.  As you know I'm was baptized in the Mormon church many years ago, using my existing records that show my previous name.

Thanks Cindi.

Steph

[Hazumu]

G'morning, Cindi;

I found one of my questions semi-answered since last night, specifically:

--If murder is the most egregious sin, what was your 'sin only second to murder'?

So it's not actually prescripted, but somehow a Mormon 'understands' that what you willfully did to God's vessel is an egregious sin.

Second question, not yet answered--

I haven't asked her yet, but it appears my section supervisor holds funde-vangelical beliefs.  She believes that God gave her that position (she said so.)  She is very rigid in her thinking -- Work starts at 7 and she's rarely early by more than 5 minutes or late by 2, and she's out the door at 4:30, and she highly values puntuality in her subordinates, and finds ways to restrain those who are tardy or play hooky during the workday.  She makes notes of events in case she needs them later.  And on and on... Yet, she has a wonderful, sweet disposition.  I'm afraid.  Very afraid.

If she is Mormon, I've already come out to her.  What would a good Mormon do when a subordinate admits to, well, what I admitted to?  If she sought guidance (assuming she is LDS), where would she likely turn?  What would the guidance she receives from the Church hierarchy likely be?

In a way, I'd be relieved to find out she is Mormon, because I have a resource here at Susans to help me strategise and well-inform my behavoural choices.

In advance, thank you for your insight, Cindi, and Steph, and anyone else who can help me separate the pepper from the fly-****

Karen

[cindianna_jones]

G'morning, Cindi;

I found one of my questions semi-answered since last night, specifically:

--If murder is the most egregious sin, what was your 'sin only second to murder'?

So it's not actually prescripted, but somehow a Mormon 'understands' that what you willfully did to God's vessel is an egregious sin.

I received this advice from a general authority of the church: "This thing you want to do, this sin, is second only to murder".  He was later excommunicated from the church himself.  I do not believe that his statement was based on church doctrine.  But since I was excommunicated partly for failing to listen to him, that would be a logical conclusion.

I haven't asked her yet, but it appears my section supervisor holds funde-vangelical beliefs.  She believes that God gave her that position (she said so.)  She is very rigid in her thinking -- Work starts at 7 and she's rarely early by more than 5 minutes or late by 2, and she's out the door at 4:30, and she highly values puntuality in her subordinates, and finds ways to restrain those who are tardy or play hooky during the workday.  She makes notes of events in case she needs them later.  And on and on... Yet, she has a wonderful, sweet disposition. I'm afraid.  Very afraid.
If she is Mormon, I've already come out to her.  What would a good Mormon do when a subordinate admits to, well, what I admitted to?  If she sought guidance (assuming she is LDS), where would she likely turn?  What would the guidance she receives from the Church hierarchy likely be?

Any Christian, firmly believing in the teachings of Christ, would feel compassion for you.  If she were to seek council from her church leader, it might be her relief society president (in the women's organization) or bishop. The official guidance should be in line with doctrine. "Judge not, for ye may be judged." "Let he who is guiltless cast the first stone." "Love the sinner, hate the sin."  And the odds are, this is what she will ultimately think or be told if she is a knowledgeable member.  The sad point is that as with all things, many members are not knowledgeable concerning their own doctrine.  And she may not ask a church authority.  She may only discuss it with a close friend or her mother. So you may be dealing with someone who deals with an issue like this by how she feels.

In a way, I'd be relieved to find out she is Mormon, because I have a resource here at Susans to help me strategise and well-inform my behavoural choices.

PM me for advice.  I am attempting to keep this thread free of my own opinions.

Cindi

[Tiffany2]

Cindi;

  Please excuse my ignorance here but I am a little misunderstanding in one thing. I mean no harm.
  If a person commits this crime supposedly second only to murder and joins the church I could see where acceptance and baptism would in a sense make them new and accepted.
  When a person is a member and has SRS and then comes back; wouldn't this be a different thing? I mean; the person was a member, committed the transgression while a member, and then returns.
  In most churches there is forgiveness upon coming to Christ and being baptized. In this case though it would be one coming to Christ, being baptized, and then committing a transgression and coming back to Christ and being re-baptized again.
  I'm a little confused. Is this like the prodigal son that returns after wasting his inheritance?
  Maybe it would help if you were to lay out the plan of belief in each sceneario.
  A sinner coming to the church, accepting Christ and being baptized and then the member that leaves or is excommunicated, returns and is rebaptized and what the differnce would be in their standing.
  Please forgive me but I am trying to figure this out.
  ( When I was a little girl I was blonde. In time the hair left but I guess the roots stayed.)
  Tiffany
 

[cindianna_jones]

Tiffany, it isn't very difficult at all to understand.  You are totally at their mercy.  Transsexualism is only mentioned once in all of the available church literature and that is to hold a court hearing as described earlier. There may be special guidance to authorities that is not published to the general membership. Where no guidance is given, the local church authorities will likely make their own determination.

Yes baptism does "wash away the sins".  But there is an implied promise in this ordinance that you will follow through with repentance and restitution.  What that means... is totally up for grabs.  You can see where the church authorities have real problems dealing with this. They just don't know what to do.  They ask up the chain of command until they get a definitive answer.  Or, they will make a decision "based on inspiration".  You may be required to go back living as a male.  Or they may let you in as the real you.  I've heard of stories, and this is gossip mind you, where people have been advised both ways.  And then there is always the probability that the decision can be reversed.

I do find it interesting however that the specific text I quoted above explicitly states  "transsexual operation".  So, if you had not had the operation yet and showed up in drag, it would certainly cause a great disturbance, but there isn't much they could do about it. This is my interpretation of the document.

Cindi