Concerned about stacking subtleties (or not so subtle) too far

[Kay]

Hi all,
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I had a good week last week for a change.  (Even updated my avatar to something a bit more reflective of my current mood) I tried a different Trans group meeting that I hadn't been to before, and found someone that I might be able to call a friend.  It's been...years...since I've felt that way.  A nice feeling.
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Anyway, on to the question at hand.  It almost seems silly to worry about such a thing, but I am worried, and would like your opinions.
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I'm a fairly hairy person.  I've been hiding my arm-shaving this Winter by wearing long sleeves at work.  (We have uniforms, so there isn't much of a choice in attire other than sleeve length)
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Well, in a month April will be here, and the long sleeves will have to go. (many of my co-workers have already switched)
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Honestly, I don't really want to stop shaving.  Aside from being a huge blow to my self-esteem, I've been trying to push myself to get out of the apartment more, and not be such a recluse.   Hairy arms really would undermine the small strides I've made in that this year.
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If arm-shaving were the only thing I was doing, I don't think I would be concerned.  I'd just show up tomorrow in my short sleeves, and they would have to cope and deal.  It would be uncomfortable for a bit, but they'd get used to it. 
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What concerns me is how this relates with everything else I'm doing.
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I've been getting facial electrolysis for a year and a half now, and am about halfway done (2 hrs/ week).  So far, no one has noticed.  I started HRT in January, and am already noticing very subtle changes.  While I'm 36, and I can't expect enormous effect...the subtle changes so far are encouraging.
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I'm not out to anybody yet.  And I am a bit concerned about the atmosphere at my workplace.  18 people at our branch.  Over the last 7 years, I've heard the views of 15 of them regarding trans-individuals.  None of them positive.  Not even from the lesbian who sits in the next cubicle.  Ranging from those who are smart enough to let inference and unspoken words hang in the air...all the way down to those who think trans-individuals should be "taken out back and beaten the hell out of."    While my company is a fortune 500, they don't have gender identity protections.  Though, the city where I work and live does.
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I guess what I'm worried about is the stacking of subtle changes.  I don't think it would be good to push too many subtleties until the point that they have to ask "Hey Kay....are you sure there isn't something you want to tell us?"  I know I will be coming out in the next couple of years.  I guess I'm just concerned that doing something so obvious would shine a spotlight on those subtleties that otherwise would go unnoticed.  I don't want to let coming out turn into some farce. While now isn't the right time to come out yet, I'm trying to balance things so that I can do it in a responsible manner.  To at least give myself a chance of keeping the position.  And to that end...it may be better to let the hair grow back and just trim it a bit shorter than I did last summer.
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While I haven't made any close friends there, I'm generally well-liked...if a bit quiet.  I work hard.  I'm their main cross-trainer, computer tech support person, and always seem to be the 'go-to' person when an issue or problem arises.  Even though I'm not management, they even trust me to be a keyholder over the numerous others that have far more seniority.  People are fickle though.  Despite local laws, I do worry that I may lose my job when I come out, simply because of the attitudes I've heard.

I don't know.  In the grand scheme of things, arm-shaving really isn't that big of a deal.   I've been thinking a lot more about coming out lately.  Trying to push myself to make some plans...or at least make some progress toward that end.  Perhaps it wouldn't have the spot-light effect that worries me.  Perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a mole-hill?
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Thoughts? 

[Janet_Girl]

I shave the arms as required and have for over a year and a half.  A lot of 'guys' do it and no one says a word.  And check if the state has protections in place.  If it does and the company licensed by the state, they have to conform to the state law.

You might want to dig quietly into the company polices, by going up the ladder of your HR department.  Most companies have an open door policy in place and you should be able to find out with out fear of losing your job.

Then develop a transition package based on the policies and the local/state laws.  And document everything, who you talked to, what you talked about, date and time.  CYA.

And if you don't like the shaving thing Nair makes a hair remover that is for guys, if the normal Nair doesn't work for you.

Fair winds and following seas on your journey, Kay.

[Cindy]

Hi Kay

I still present as male at work. I Nair my arms weekly. I also give blood samples regularly (for normal ( ) control samples). I'm bled every few days. NO ONE has ever made a comment about the lack of hair on my arms. Except for the regular comment; "you're lucky you won't pull the hair off your arms when you take the plaster off' I often go to work in a T shirt, I have pierced ears with hoops through them, I'm in my fifties. NO ONE has said a word. Feel free to go through my past posts of the terror that I have felt. All my concerns have been groundless.

I did come across a product the other day in the guys section of a major store. It was an "all over" razor for guys by Philips,I think ($50). Trim your legs, arms, chest, back etc was the advertising.  More and more guys are doing so anyway. Have you ever seen a hairy wrestler, or body builder? Do the people you work with want to walk up to The Undertaker a 6'7" 325 lb wrestler and tell him he's a poofter for shaving his body? Not twice I think

Take care honey
Hope it goes OK


Cindy

[Byren]

I doubt anyone will even notice your arms, to be honest. Some guys have practically zero arm hair anyway, some look like gorilla's (my dad, lol). Also, a lot of guys shave their arms for a couple reasons:

1. the girl/boy friend likes 'em smooth
2. bodybuilders shave to see better muscle definition (and to photo better, heh)
3. in some professions hairy arms can be a hazard (i.e...if you're working closely with fire)
4. they personally just don't like the hair

Or, you could always say you've taken up competitive swimming. They shave EVERYTHING. 

At any rate, I wouldn't worry about your arms. It's more likely that something HRT related would give you away than the hair.

Good luck to you!

[Autumn]

Contrarily, I've had several people go "You shave your arms!?" over the years. It weirds some people out. If you notice, a lot of women let their arm hairs flourish... it's peculiar as all hell. I remember, many many years ago, a woman saying (in general, not to me) that only drag queens shaved their arms. Whatever, she was a bitch anyway.

*shrug* Just say you felt like it. Or trying something different. Or that it's a lot easier to stay cool without body hair during the spring and summer.

I'm more worried that out of the other 17 coworkers, 15 hate trans people.

[spacial]

I'm not out to anybody yet.  And I am a bit concerned about the atmosphere at my workplace.  18 people at our branch.  Over the last 7 years, I've heard the views of 15 of them regarding trans-individuals.  None of them positive.  Not even from the lesbian who sits in the next cubicle.  Ranging from those who are smart enough to let inference and unspoken words hang in the air...all the way down to those who think trans-individuals should be "taken out back and beaten the hell out of."   
Thoughts?

On this issue, may I suggest you might just try it out.

People make all sorts of comments when they think a) no-one will be affected and b) that the comment might get some positive feedback. Comments about non heterosexual practices are a favourite in my experience.

As an example, I'm married to an African woman. When people don't know, as they usually don't when I start a new job, I hear all sorts of racial comments and jokes. I usually try to drop the information as quickly as I can, to avoid later embarrassment for some.

To test the water where you are, how do you feel about a little dishonesty?

Go in and casually talk about a cousin of whom you are really fond, and say she is coming to visit you. That you are really looking forward to it and so on. Then say that she is transsexual. You knew her as a boy when you were growing up and are so pleased she has found herself and so on.

Then leave it and see how that goes.

I have a feeling you will be surprised.

[Autumn]

That is a great idea, Spacial. I wish I would have thought of trying that a long time ago.

[kyril]

Contrarily, I've had several people go "You shave your arms!?" over the years. It weirds some people out. If you notice, a lot of women let their arm hairs flourish... it's peculiar as all hell.

Why's that peculiar? Even in full repressed "girl mode" I never felt any pressure to shave my arms -  not that anyone would be able to tell if I did anyway (sigh).

[Silver]

Why's that peculiar? Even in full repressed "girl mode" I never felt any pressure to shave my arms -  not that anyone would be able to tell if I did anyway (sigh).

Same. As far as I know, few women shave their arms.

[Autumn]

What I meant is that I find it peculiar that women don't shave their arms.

[Hikari]

@spacial That is a really great idea! I have had the same problem, being married to a woman who is African-American I have always struggled with the differing faces people present when they learn of this fact. It flat out amazes me the depths of ignorance someone may go to just to get a bit of what they think may be agreement.

9 times out of 10 no one ever makes a racial comment around me at work once they realise this, however I never even thought about the same thing applying in transgender/TS situations.

[Kay]

Hi everyone,
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Thanks for your advice.  I'm still nervous about it, but I guess come April we'll see how it goes. *crosses fingers*
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--I love your attitude Autumn.  Wish I was a bit more like that sometimes.
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--Spacial:  Good point.  I hope you're right, I really do.  I know at least four of them are lost causes (über-rightwing conservative)...thankfully none of them are in management.   The rest?...maybe...I guess I can hope for now...but I'm not holding my breath.  Still...it's a good idea.  Thanks.

[Christy Edwards]

I am now shaving my arms.,and my legs. I have always worn shorts when it turns warm. So, this year I just do not care. However I understand your concerns. I suggest just do it as though no big deal. Heck, I keep my nails pretty long  and my brows are very fem shaped. Follow your comfort zone with it..It'll be ok

[Diane Elizabeth]

        I have been shaving my armpits , arms, and legs for several years now.  No one has commented about it to me and I have to change into /out of uniforms with others in the lockeroom.  Once someone (gg) saw my ankle while sitting and commented about no hair.  I just said I don't have much hair down there.  Another time it was commented again and I said I used to swim and kept the hair off.  End of conversation.  Now if they only knew what color I was wearing on my toes today.  That would raise interesting talk.

Starla Dyan Renee Douglas

[Christy Edwards]

Thats so cute and funny...I keep my toenails polished as well..I have a 10 yr old(working on telling him him), so I wear athl. socks around him...

[Kay]

Well, it's April.  I saw my family on Sunday for the first time in 2 months.  Went to work on Monday.  Short sleeves all around.  No one noticed a thing.  Not a glance, look, or comment.  (maybe it helps that they haven't seen my arms since September   )
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Makes me wonder if I'm just over-sensitive or paranoid about these things.  Fear kept for years can have a tendency to seep into places it doesn't belong.  *shrug*
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Appearance-wise, I'm very firmly on androgynous ground...leaning away from the masculine end.   I can't really do much more without crossing definite lines.  Very flouncy shoulder length hair cut.  No visible hair escapes the razor except the head and eyebrows.    I've been slowly shaping the brows for the last year...a few more hairs every week.  While still a little androgynous, they're more fem than some of my female coworkers.  10 more hairs would make them *very* noticeable.  (Heh...a thought which makes me smile a little) Little to no beard shadow due to continuing electro.   Long, well kempt nails.  The hormones are doing an OK job of fleshing out my cheeks and lips, and while development is rather slow, if my shirt wasn't a baggy XL, people would probably notice the girls now (A's). 
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Heh...and I'm sitting here asking myself..."Why not?"  "Go ahead."  "Jump that line."  I'm not quite sure how to feel about that.  Is that confidence?  It's kinda nice.  I'm not used to that.  Just sitting here laughing...quite a bit at myself...and a bit at enjoying the thought of doing something more overt...something not at all subtle.  Something that's me without all the fears and restrictions.
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Though...I do often wonder...how dense are these people? 
Sure...I've tried to be as subtle and gradual as possible, but I don't see how they can miss all of it together and not think that *something* is up.
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I'm a bit nervous about the coming year.  We're getting a new manager on the 15th.  Not the best of timing.  My last two bosses were around since I started, they've always shown appreciation for my work, and were always very good to me.  Definitely sorry to see them go.  I'm a bit nervous about the new guy...especially with everything that's coming up this year for me.  I'll definitely have to hold the above happy thoughts in check for now...until I see how things go. 
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Still...happy thoughts are nice. 

[Autumn]

My experience coming out at work:

Some people notice lots of things. All of the people notice something. Nobody notices everything.

People not saying things is a courtesy. Respect, professionalism, as a friend, family, whatever.

Every small change people make in their appearance for aesthetics is there for a reason. People notice things.

I was delusional to think people were "dense" and didn't notice, they just didn't know why and didn't want to offend me by asking.

[Kay]

Good points all.  I guess I'm just surprised by the lack of any sort of reaction.  I probably shouldn't be...considering how slow and subtle I've tried to be...but I do sometimes wonder how far I would have to go to get even the most subtle of reactions from the least inhibited of them. 

(The least inhibited being a lady who has been there for 30 years, calls customers "loser" in the most affectionate way possible...and barks at me (and others) "woof woof"  "ruff ruff"  as I pass her in the warehouse    Nice girl, fun person, but definitely not inhibited at all  .) 

[casorce]

People in the workplace are oblivious. They don't care about you or anyone else except themselves. They want to do as little work as possible and take as much money home as possible. If your appearance starts to affect their workload or how much money they get, then they'll care.
If not, they won't care at all.
I had inch long nails, both ears pierced, wore female deodorant, shaved my arms, wore lipgloss, plucked my eyebrows and only TWO people noticed in a building of 600+ people (all of whom I interacted with at one time or another). One woman noticed my eyebrows, another noticed my nails. While slightly curious, they didn't really care enough to push the issue beyond making an observation on those two things.

[Diane Elizabeth]

        Females co workers will notice the more subtle things.   Like my hairless ankles peeking out from my pant legs.    Wonder how they will react to my shaved arms when I roll up my sleeves.  I will use the same excuse as I did for my legs.  "I was a swimmer so I keep arms and legs clean.  Already received so much teasing (harassment) over my hair that I had to go to the boss to get it to stop.
Nails keep breaking so that isn't a problem of length.