Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone!

First, I don't want this topic to be a conflict around stealth vs no- stealth. I am going through a difficult period, and Just want to talk about it and possibly get your different insights into the situation.

I am 30 years old this year, and I'm 8 years post op, Since the begining of my transition, and up till now now, I have always lived a stealth lifestyle, with the exception of the first year shen I wasn't fully passable.



Over the last couple of years, I have been feeling the weight of the pressure caused by living stealth. I have had a few boyfriends who didn't know anything about my past. One of them however did have doubts as he noticed the discreet and almost invisible v shaped scars on my vagina, but I was very  quick to dismiss his concerns when he asked me.


For the last 11 years, I've had numerous surgeries to look and sound as passable as possible. These include ffs, srs, fat transfer to hips and bum, 2 ba's and vfs. I rarely wear heels, and I akways keep my make-up to a minimum to avoid the ->-bleeped-<- look... anyway, that's to say, I have done everything possible to live as a regular, normal ciswoman.



Not.sure if it's because of the fact that I I am getting wiser, but lately I have come to the conclusion that throughout our transitiong, many of us develop a form of transphobia, generated by the hostility and stigma attached to being transgender by society. I remember feeling happy,  positive and somewhat proud of being  a transexual at the very beginning of my transition. Sadly, my vision has since  changed and I have become an internalised transphobe if this makes sense??? I created a world for myself, which is 100 percent trans-free, with the exception of my orange dialator which I keep in a secret cupboard for my monthly use.

The question asked by my last partner regarding my trans status caused me a lot grief and anxiety. It made me realise that after all, I am still a post-op transgender woman, and that I have created another closet world for myself in which I am leading a secret life that is putting me a lot of pressure, which in turn is causing me to lead an anxious  and unfulfilled life.

I am thinking of giving up some aspects of my stealth lifestyle, especially with prospective partners and in some other social situation. In other words, I am have not thinking of coming out to everyone, but simply be somewhat less ashamed of who I really am if this makes sense.

I have come to the conclusion that unless you really love yourself and are proud of and at peace with who you really are, you will never be truly happy.

What are your thoughts on this?

Many thanks in advance!

Ritana

Hi Ritana,

I liked your post very much. I am not post-op; I am having SRS in August, but the issues you raise are something I have thought about quite a bit, and they have surfaced from time to time on this forum.

I consider myself a transsexual female. I always will be. Not "just a woman, thank you very much", a transwoman. I started my transition at age 56. I spent a lifetime as a male. Nearly all my professional associates knew me as a man. I got married, I have kids.  The point is that the male part of my life is just that - part of my life. It's how I got here. 

I have a boyfriend now, and he knows my story from A to Z.  I don't know if he will end up being my life partner, but whoever that ends up being will know my story as well. They will have to know and love me, not some image of who they think I am.  I am not at all ashamed of who I am.  It took incredible determination and courage to get to where I am now. If no one else wants what I have to offer as human being, then so be it. I am completely comfortable with my decision to transition, and I look forward to the rest of my life.

I think you are very wise in coming to the conclusion you did.

Blessings to you,

Terri

Ritana, as a late transitioning mtf, passing/stealth isn't part of my plan. I could in fact  choose to present and pass as masculine. I'm choosing to be out and as far toward femme non-binary as i can manage. I think it's the reciprocal choice to the one you're considering.

Being visibly trans is a part of that for me.

To be or not to be... or in this case to stealth or not to stealth?

Ultimately its up to you.  As I don't have multiple male partners that isn't a concern there.. why should I need to spill the beans about what I call my 'birth defect'?  Honestly in all my years NO ONE has ever asked me.  So I don't care to share... is that living 'stealth'? Maybe? I don't think so.  In the end most people, other than passing morbid curiosity, don't honestly care in the end.  We all live in our own little worlds and silos, and rarely go outside of it to get to know people.   This doesn't change really whether your cis, trans, straight, gay, w/e.  In the end outing yourself to folks will only serve to ostracize you from those that are inevitably bigoted.  Of course there will be some that accept you... there will also be a staggering amount of people that will shun you too.  Unless you're hanging out in the LGBT area, understand people are people... for all their faults 

In the end, the choice is yours.  Do you see yourself as trans?  Or a female?  Personally I see myself as female, with a birth defect that was fixed eons ago.  Be yourself, whatever that 'self' is, and the choice is ultimately yours to make, for better or worse.

Sounds wise. Dunno, call me weird, but I wouldn't want to take the burden of anxiety for life due to living stealth. If you're able to live without anxiety, sounds good, but if you're suffering... doesn't look like a good idea.

And I know some girls will throw at me things like "but you say that because you're unable to pass", "you look trans", etc. Even if passable 1000000% in any kind of situation, I wouldn't take the anxiety, no thanks.

Quote from: Ritana on June 10, 2017, 07:18:30 AMI have created another closet world for myself in which I am leading a secret life that is putting me a lot of pressure

This is why I am not planning to go stealth.  I spent 62 years in one closet; I am not about to go right into another one.  Besides, everyone in my small vlillage knows about me, so I'd have to move to go stealth.  The logistics would be a nightmare, but the big reason is to avoid being closeted again.

I am really enjoying the freedom to just be myself, warts and all.  I do like it if I pass well enough that people gender me correctly at first guess.  But if someone 'clocks' me (and I know they do sometimes), it's not a big deal as long as they remain polite.

Of course, I realize that I am spoiled by where I live.  I realize that there are parts of the world where my attitude would be more problematic.

Excellent post Ritana, thanks for sharing, I'm sort of in the same situation and can completely relate to what you're saying. I hope the coming months and years will be more fulfilling for you and less anxiogenic. Good luck, lots of love. ;) Hiding is NEVER fun.  :(

Hi Ritana,

Stealth wasn't really a good option for me, so I didn't really think about it much.  I can tell you that since I came out, I haven't had any of my old anxiety dreams about being found somewhere naked or in my undies, or in a skirt, and being embarrassed about it.  Raising my secret up for everyone to see was freeing, and has left me much calmer, and more satisfied in general.  I don't think this is universally true about secrets, but it's probably true most of the time.  Hope you find peace in your decision. 

Erin

It's weird. I came out as gay back in 1994 after a lifetime of living in the closet.  At no small cost to me personally.  By that time the gay community been thru the gay liberation movement begun at Stonewall, the AIDS crisis of the late seventies, and the political backlash of the 80s. Most of the gay men I knew back then were out of the closet and publicly identified as gay.  If you were gay and weren't out you were considered a "closet case."  So when I came out as trans I expected a similar dynamic. Boy, was I surprised!  The way I see it the gay movement won the right to marry and other civil rights by being out, loud and proud.  Not by hiding.

Having said all that being out and trans is definitely different.  The stigma of being trans is like the stigma of being gay times a factor of 10.  And being out as gay is not something that EVERYBODY and his brother can see in less than a second by just looking at you.  But still.  I lived too much of my life in the closet to EVER want to go back there.  Even in my bedroom I don't have closet doors.  I took them down.  I honestly can't stand them.

I agree with you to some extent, Doreen. DoreenIn fact, the arguments you mention in your reply are the ones that led me to  decide to live as stealth. However, it is my conviction that we remain transexual women and not cis-women. That is a fact no one can deny. Giving up some aspects of extreme stealth allows you to ease the pressure and be at peace with yourself. Remember, I am 8 years post-op and I've been there. The decision is yours of course!

Lots if love

Ritana

Quote from: Ritana on June 10, 2017, 07:18:30 AM
First, I don't want this topic to be a conflict around stealth vs no- stealth. I am going through a difficult period, and Just want to talk about it and possibly get your different insights into the situation.

I think what you are asking for is a discussion of the practical/emotional pluses and minuses  of stealth vs out rather than than  teh morality or politics of it ... Is that right?

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I am 30 years old this year, and I'm 8 years post op, Since the begining of my transition, and up till now now, I have always lived a stealth lifestyle, with the exception of the first year shen I wasn't fully passable.

Well you started early enough to be stealth...

I will be 19 years post-op this summer but at the same time will be turning 62 (SRS was one week after my birthday). In addition to SRS I too had FFS and BA as well as  voice surgery (I am curious about the fat transfer procedures - never considered them as I had heard years back that it was only temporaray)

But I have never been stealth and it's something I always wanted very much... but certain physical issues as well as staying married has made that impossible... So I am coming at it from the other side...

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For the last 11 years, I've had numerous surgeries to look and sound as passable as possible. These include ffs, srs, fat transfer to hips and bum, 2 ba's and vfs. I rarely wear heels, and I always keep my make-up to a minimum to avoid the ->-bleeped-<- look... anyway, that's to say, I have done everything possible to live as a regular, normal ciswoman.

One question I have is are you out to anybody in your life that you are close to?

Anyway I think the only sane way to be stealth is to do everything you can to pass... and then just live your life without worrying about it or thinking about it...

And if something comes up as with your boyfriend,  deal with it in the moment,  but don't dwell on it... that can be crazy making (believe me I know!)

If you can't be like that, then stealth is likely not for you IMO...

As much as I want stealth and understand why some are even stealth to spouses, I think that would-be a mistake as for some of the things you are feeling now...

While I don't see an issue with being stealth while dating if one passes well enough for that, if marriage ever comes into the picture, I have to think staying stealth would put a huge strain on the relationship in the long run.

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Not.sure if it's because of the fact that I am getting wiser, but lately I have come to the conclusion that throughout our transitiong, many of us develop a form of transphobia, generated by the hostility and stigma attached to being transgender by society.

We are social animals so unless one is a sociopath how one is seen and treated by society matters and affects us. We know a lot of it is based on a gut level misconceptions about transsexualism because sex is such a basic thing about a person.... but because of that, being out has an affect on our relationships and the texture of our lives.

Not wanting that is not transphobia, it's not wanting to have this condition we were born with define our lives. For those that say people know and it does not matter, what do you think the reaction of those people would be if you were trying to date their son, brother or best friend...

Would they feel they needed to tell them if you did not right from the start? I actually asked that of someone who was very accepting... and they felt that the person needed to know so they would tell them... 

To me that tells me many, no matter how accepting, many see TSes  as "other".

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I remember feelinghapoy,  positive and somewhat proud of being  a transexual at the very beginning of my transition. Sadly, my vision has since  changed and I have become an internalised transphobe if this makes sense.

I think maybe you lost perspective between who you are and what society thinks of transsexuals. We know we are woman - which is why we walk this path,  but we also know we have special challenges both internal and external to who we know we are... It totally is unfair but it is what it is...

In another place i was talking about the pain I feel not being about to be stealth, to to be able to be just seen an interacted with in society as normal woman and not an an oddity because of things I can't change.

I was told that I should not be ashamed of being a TS (by someone who is stealth BTW)... The thing is I am not ashamed of being TS... making the decision to transition was the hardest thing I ever did, and I did it knowing that I likely could never be stealth.

Having been born with this condition is NOTHING to be ashamed of, and getting through it is a significant accomplishment.. But as i said  do we really want that to be what defines us in societies' eyes?

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I created a world for myself, which is 100 percent trans-free, with the exception of my orange dialator which I keep in a secret cupboard for my monthly use.

I think part of the issue may be that you were too emphatically stealth and too worried about maintaining it... which is unhealthy I think... If you are the type of person who keeps obsessing and worrying after you have done all you can, then it's not healthy for you...

If stealth is a closet for you or not, depends on your emotional ability to deal with the difficult parts,  and how you see yourself, and your ability to just relax into it, and deal with bumps in the road.

Not everyone has the emotional makeup for healthy stealth no matter how they see themselves. Some are Ok with dealing with being seen as a woman with an asterisk, and some thrive that way. For some it is intolerable.

As I said, while it's totally unfair - and more so than it has to be in an absolute sense=  being born TS makes us have to make very difficult choices and often forces us to have to make compromises in our lives most other people do not have to make.

It often comes down what compromises give you the best quality of life - and the wisdom and  courage to make them (something I lack).

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I have come to the conclusion that unless you really love yourself and are proud of a.d in peace of who you really are, you will never be trully happy.

That is obviously true... And as I said being TS is nothing to be ashamed of ... but being TS is only one part of you ...  we are social animals and know most others can't understand why we do this and who we are because of that...

How we live our lives has a lot to do with how we deal with that conundrum... and not one size fits all... So you need to find the best compromise for you,

- Karen

I am on a need to know bases. I don't discuss that part of my past if it's not important but if it's needed in the conversation, I am willing to discuss it. While this is a choice for me in my day to day life, where I sexually active, I would need to disclose because my bottom would out me to anybody playing doctor.

I think that going stealth would be extremely stressful as there is no way to 100% burry the past. There is always the possibility that something will surface at the wrong time. Early on, I have had a few events in my life where the past poked it's way in to the present so it does happen.

I don't recommend that you tell everybody you know but you need to find a balance in your life that you are comfortable with. Currently your doctors should know and beyond that, it's up to you as to who should be included and when. In my case, the only one who knows at work is my mother because it's not important for anybody else to know. Outside work, it's family and a neighbor. Because I moved a few years ago my circle is pretty small however I can see that over time, additional people will be added.

Quote from: Dena on June 10, 2017, 10:39:23 AM
I am on a need to know bases.

This is how I feel. If I am personally involved with someone, I need to be completely honest.

For everyone else, What you see is what I am!

Many thanks for sharing your different perspectives, girls!

I think some of you have mis-interpreted what I said. I am not intending to totally give up stealth. I  just wanna be relaxed about being trans. For example, with my last bf, since he questioned me about the scars on my vagina, and whether I had a surgery down there I became too anxious and depressed. I couldn't stay with him much longer as I knew that deep down he still had doubts. For example, two weeks after he questioned me about the scars, he asked me how come I didn't have any photos of my childhood. Had I been relaxed about being trans, I would have told him as soon as the relationship became serious.

Extreme stealth does have its consequences throughout the years. Subconsciously, we know we are not ciswomen. We have to tell a few lies to corroborate our "claim/ assertion" that we're cis such as talking about having a  period,; the reason why we don't have/ intend to have children. It has been my experience that lies are difficult to sustain in the long term. Plus, lies breed more lies and create a pressure to stick the story as told and not slip up....


Anyway, at this stage I haven't told anyone yet. However, I decided to be honest and tell my next bf when the relationship becomes serious. I have recently started seeing a guy who seems very open-minded about life in general. I don't wanna have to live in the closet anymore as far as relationships are concerned. Anything outside a relagionship that may t require disclosing, will be considered individually. Whatever the decision , I will have to be happy and ralaxed about it. After all, that is all what matters in the end.

Hugs,

Ritana

Ritana,

   I preface this that I am not stealth. I think what you are saying makes great sense. You shouldn't have to feel obligated to tell anybody. If you find a person who you have intense feelings for, I would think you wouldn't want that secret. It has the danger of creating a separation between you and them, doesn't it? Of course, there is always risk if that person turns out not to be trustworthy. You said that you had replaced one secret with another in a sense. I do think being stealth would have a certain pressure that goes along with it, but that is a guess on my part.
Moni

Great input, happyMoni. This is much appreciated!

Hugs,

Ritana

Quote from: KayXo on June 10, 2017, 09:13:09 AM
Excellent post Ritana, thanks for sharing, I'm sort of in the same situation and can completely relate to what you're saying. I hope the coming months and years will be more fulfilling for you and less anxiogenic. Good luck, lots of love. ;) Hiding is NEVER fun.  :(

Thanks hun!

Can you explain your experience with living stealth and the reasons why you maybe considering giving it up?

Ritana

I'm older and in an interesting situation. When I first came out full-time over 10 years ago I was willing to tell everyone about myself and fill in there understanding about it. Then I met someone who didn't know. I was passing at times and no one was more surprised than I was.

I noticed right away that those who thought I was natal female treated me differently; there was a closeness I'd never experienced before and loved it. It was standing closer together, non intimate touching, deeper conversations. I wanted more of this. I quit telling people and let them figure it out for themselves, but I would talk about it if they asked.

10 years later I have a huge number of friends and acquaintances and have found virtually total acceptance in the Lesbian community. Some know and some do not. Unfortunately some who know tell others who didn't know. I could come out to all but that "closeness" I experience with women who don't know is like a drug and I don't want to give it up . . . .

Quote from: Gail20 on June 10, 2017, 05:18:26 PM
I'm older and in an interesting situation. When I first came out full-time over 10 years ago I was willing to tell everyone about myself and fill in there understanding about it. Then I met someone who didn't know. I was passing at times and no one was more surprised than I was.

I noticed right away that those who thought I was natal female treated me differently; there was a closeness I'd never experienced before and loved it. It was standing closer together, non intimate touching, deeper conversations. I wanted more of this. I quit telling people and let them figure it out for themselves, but I would talk about it if they asked.

10 years later I have a huge number of friends and acquaintances and have found virtually total acceptance in the Lesbian community. Some know and some do not. Unfortunately some who know tell others who didn't know. I could come out to all but that "closeness" I experience with women who don't know is like a drug and I don't want to give it up . . . .

I totally get this. I am known to most everyone at work from coming out to everybody in a meeting last year. There are those there now who never knew my previous incarnation. There is definitely a different vibe from them which I crave. I don't even know if they know I am trans (I suspect they do) but I really understand wanting to be around those who see only female when they look at me. Thanks for posting that. I could never be stealth as at my age I am not starting over with everyone I know becoming estranged or gone from my life.
Moni

Quote from: Ritana on June 10, 2017, 05:03:06 PMCan you explain your experience with living stealth and the reasons why you maybe considering giving it up?

I think it's more just living without being afraid that any behavior, gesture, sound, physical characteristic will "out" me. Not wondering anymore, not being paranoid. Just being, living freely and if it happens that someone figures it out, let it be, I just don't care. Not making an effort to hide my past nor making the effort to make it known to the entire world that I'm trans. Just living and going about my business without worrying.

I think the key to getting there comes down to accepting oneself as who we are. If we're ok with that, then we're free. :)

Quote from: KayXo on June 11, 2017, 02:57:06 PM
I think it's more just living without being afraid that any behavior, gesture, sound, physical characteristic will "out" me. Not wondering anymore, not being paranoid. Just being, living freely and if it happens that someone figures it out, let it be, I just don't care. Not making an effort to hide my past nor making the effort to make it known to the entire world that I'm trans. Just living and going about my business without worrying.

I think the key to getting there comes down to accepting oneself as who we are. If we're ok with that, then we're free. :)

That is exactly what I am hoping to achieve. I am naturally feminine, I act and sound no different to the average natal female ( had vfs 18 months ago). I just wanna get relaxed about being trans, and if my past catches up with me and get found out then I would like to be ok with that too.  Definitely any future boyfriend will have to know about my past (when the relationship becomes serious a.official). Not intending to inform anyone in my friends circle, though.

I've run into pressure from cisgender people to be stealth, mostly with good/protective intentions.

Whenever I think about it, I always hit the wall of: how will I be a good advocate for the community if I deny my own membership in it as soon as I pass? Um...I'm sure there are ways, but I would rather take the simpler course and just let people know or not know based on what happens naturally.

I'm still transitioning, so everyone around me right now knows. To go stealth, I would have to start life over. Even then, it's pretty easy to find out about someone's past. I've seen it done. :(

I think you should be who you wanna be with who you wanna be it. It's your life. If you feel it would enhance it by sharing your transness with one and not another, that's just wisdom and an opportunity to make each particular relationship as valuable and precious as it may be. I can see telling some so as to let my guard down and truly be me. Others that may hold prejudice or preconceived ideals simply have no need to know. Consider yourself blessed to be able to pick and choose.

Do you all imagine how it would be being an stealth person in a trans comunity? I mean, a person "supposed" to be trans in a trans community but who is cis in reality? lol

For me the question about no pictures is exceedingly simple.. because none exist.  It involved a fire, old pictures, old house, and every last bit of 'evidence' of life before.  Helps I was home schooled and camera shy in the first place.  So ya, not a single photo exists of the me "before" that I am aware of.  But ya if you become intimate, it might be necessary. 

I know some folks look questionable enough for questions to exist and that'll always be a dark cloud over their lives.. for them its probably wise not to be stealth.   In the end its a personal choice :)

Quote from: Ritana on June 10, 2017, 03:49:38 PM
Many thanks for sharing your different perspectives, girls!

I think some of you have mis-interpreted what I said. I am not intending to totally give up stealth. I  just wanna be relaxed about being trans. For example, with my last bf, since he questioned me about the scars on my vagina, and whether I had a surgery down there I became too anxious and depressed. I couldn't stay with him much longer as I knew that deep down he still had doubts. For example, two weeks after he questioned me about the scars, he asked me how come I didn't have any photos of my childhood. Had I been relaxed about being trans, I would have told him as soon as the relationship became serious.

Extreme stealth does have its consequences throughout the years. Subconsciously, we know we are not ciswomen. We have to tell a few lies to corroborate our "claim/ assertion" that we're cis such as talking about having a  period,; the reason why we don't have/ intend to have children. It has been my experience that lies are difficult to sustain in the long term. Plus, lies breed more lies and create a pressure to stick the story as told and not slip up....


Anyway, at this stage I haven't told anyone yet. However, I decided to be honest and tell my next bf when the relationship becomes serious. I have recently started seeing a guy who seems very open-minded about life in general. I don't wanna have to live in the closet anymore as far as relationships are concerned. Anything outside a relagionship that may t require disclosing, will be considered individually. Whatever the decision , I will have to be happy and ralaxed about it. After all, that is all what matters in the end.

Hugs,

Ritana

I love this thread! I am into my 8th month of RLE and just short of a year on hormones. It surprises me to no end when I find out that I pass in most situations. And I love it! I am an older lady, 69 years old so it is a bit easier, who really looks at an older woman. But I also find it to be lonely at times and I very much enjoy the different circles that I am fully known in and can celebrate all of my life and use that shared knowledge of each other  to build each other up and more fully support others in times of need. I also choose at times to out myself during opportunities to educate the muggels around us.

Anne

I try to imagine a world where I tell no one and no one knows. No one? It feels a bit empty to me. I'm doing this partly to drop the secretivity. So I would just be trading one secret for another. I don't judge. But I don't eversee total stealthworking for me. Even if it were possible.

Everyone kind of has a difference stance on this. Or at least there are many different stances out there to choose from.

You know what? It's your life. Live it how you want. Nobody says you have to be stealth or that you can't be.

I, myself have changed stances on it through the years. I wasn't stealth and then last few yrs I've been more stealth and now I'm trying to get comfortable with not talking about it but then not freaking out if someone figures it out either.

I didn't do all I did just to be known as trans. I myself believe that I should have been born a female, so I fixed it. Now I live, eat and breathe in girl world and life couldn't be better. To me stealth isn't a burden, it's just the way I roll. If it were me, I would consider the outing very very carefully, because once it's said it can never be unsaid. If you don't like the outcome you might find yourself packing your bags and moving to a new location to establish a new life once the parents start yanking their kids away.

I don't consider myself transphobic, I just feel that I don't have much in common with 'the community' other than offering advice to others.

I don't know anybody who is stealth. :)

Quote from: Doreen on June 11, 2017, 07:50:16 PM
For me the question about no pictures is exceedingly simple.. because none exist.  It involved a fire, old pictures, old house, and every last bit of 'evidence' of life before.  Helps I was home schooled and camera shy in the first place.  So ya, not a single photo exists of the me "before" that I am aware of.  But ya if you become intimate, it might be necessary. 

I know some folks look questionable enough for questions to exist and that'll always be a dark cloud over their lives.. for them its probably wise not to be stealth.   In the end its a personal choice :)

I do not look look questionable in any way, shape or form. I am 8 years post-op (started transition at 17, and had srs 2.5 years later) and during those years, Ive had numerious boyfriends I lived with, got intimate with, shared holidays, showers with... you name it. I have never been clocked by any of them, with the exception of the last one who simply enquired about the very subtle v-shape scars on my vagina. He is very fond of performing oral sex on g irls and he had never come across such a thing in the past (he might even have googled it).

That is to say, my passability is beyond question. I know there are degrees of passability, but at the same time, not many would repeatedly pass at an.intimate level like I have been for many many years. I consider myself.lucky and blessed in that resoect..  Having said that, my issue is different.  I do not intend to totally  give up stealth which I have enjoyed for over ten years now. I just wanna be OK with being trans should my past resurface at any point like ending up in hospital. I also think that leading your.partner to believe you are a natal wonan when.in fact your are a transgender woman is a lie no matter what excuse you have. I know being trans is not a big deal for us trans folks but it is a big deal for cis folks and in the mainstream dating world. Your past may catch up with you at any time during your life. I know this from experience.

Fiinally, I.would like to.point out that-as a young transitioner- I  have been through a long period of stealth during which I have had the opportunity to reflect on a lot of things. The above view/  conclusion is the result of a long and rich experience of being an.extreme stealth. I, however, used to have a different view during the first years of my transition. As someone said in the comments, living in hiding is never fun.

Quote from: Ritana on June 12, 2017, 10:34:13 AM
As someone said in the comments, living in hiding is never fun.

That's what I'm doing and it sucks big time. I've been on HRT around 9 years now, and doing everything I can to avoid social transition. Almost no one knows I'm trans and my life revolves around hiding it, which given 9 years on HRT is a lot of hiding.

I'm totally sick of it, and the last thing I want if I do socially transition is to jump from one closet into another. I look at the people here who are out and proud, and that's who I want to be. Perhaps its lucky there will be no choice in it when the day comes, given my age and ties there's no way to avoid it. Even on this site I leave out so much of my life just in case it identifies me, which most of it won't, but its not really rational at this point.

I want to get the worst over and get it out of the way because I'm quite sure what in my head at this point is worse than real life. I've spent the last 10 years rearranging my life to make as certain of that as can be.

I want to stop thinking about it all the time and just relax. Maybe one day.

I suppose that's another form of hiding and yes... hiding is never fun.

Quote from: Debra on June 11, 2017, 11:52:09 PM
Everyone kind of has a difference stance on this. Or at least there are many different stances out there to choose from.

You know what? It's your life. Live it how you want. Nobody says you have to be stealth or that you can't be.

I, myself have changed stances on it through the years. I wasn't stealth and then last few yrs I've been more stealth and now I'm trying to get comfortable with not talking about it but then not freaking out if someone figures it out either.

What Debra said...the thing is, when we transitioned, trans stuff wasn't all over the place like it is now, you know? You could go stealth and not ever hear about trans stuff for a long time. It isn't that way anymore...you will be subjected to trans stuff all over the place whether you are trans or not. I don't go waving a trans flag or anything, but I will out myself if I feel the situation is appropriate. As an example, if I'm speaking to medical professionals about trans stuff, I'll out myself, it carries more credibility with it. If I'm at a doctor's office getting medical care, always.

I view trans not as a birth defect or some curse or blessing...it's just a life event, like other life events. It's an event I went through a long time ago. I don't have any shame around it at all. It's like talking about an old job I had years ago...I remember it, I can talk about it, but I'm not attached to it so it doesn't carry much weight around it. I have this saying that I can talk about it because I'm far enough from it that it doesn't have any negativity or shame around it, you know? Best of luck on your journey :)

Hi Ritana....

I realized a couple years ago that the weight of trying to live stealth would be overwhelming and color my every interaction with those around me ... Injecting worry into every encounter about being discovered... I was able to come to a place in my mind after much reflection that it didn't matter... Being seen as female is enough... If people see me as a cis woman ... Great!... If they see me as a transwoman... Great!!!...if they see me as a middle age guy in women's clothes I can deal with that too!!!...  This mindset has given me so much in terms of just being able to relax and look at my interactions with others as what they should be.. Pleasant... Not sources of stress and triggers to be self critical... To this day, I have never had what I would call a truly negative experience with anyone that may have seen me as a transwoman...

Onward we go!

Ashley :)

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on June 19, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
What Debra said...the thing is, when we transitioned, trans stuff wasn't all over the place like it is now, you know? You could go stealth and not ever hear about trans stuff for a long time. It isn't that way anymore...you will be subjected to trans stuff all over the place whether you are trans or not. I don't go waving a trans flag or anything, but I will out myself if I feel the situation is appropriate. As an example, if I'm speaking to medical professionals about trans stuff, I'll out myself, it carries more credibility with it. If I'm at a doctor's office getting medical care, always.

I view trans not as a birth defect or some curse or blessing...it's just a life event, like other life events. It's an event I went through a long time ago. I don't have any shame around it at all. It's like talking about an old job I had years ago...I remember it, I can talk about it, but I'm not attached to it so it doesn't carry much weight around it. I have this saying that I can talk about it because I'm far enough from it that it doesn't have any negativity or shame around it, you know? Best of luck on your journey :)

I like your attitude!

Hi Ashley

". Not sources of stress and triggers to be self critical... "

This is how I felt when my last bf enquired about the tiny scars on my vagina, and this is what got me to consider giving up some aspects of stealth.

I'm really not a fan of some of the language used these days. Stealth always makes me think of military aircraft hiding from enemy detection but I guess I'll just go with the flow? I've seen terms come and go and maybe someday someone will come up with better words, but I digress...

I'm a newcomer to the trans community. It's been about two years since I've started paying attention, reading, researching and learning about things after having my head buried in the sand about it all for many years as being trans has not been on my radar or a part of my life.

The thing is though that being trans is part of my history and something I lived with as a child and dealt with as a teenager. I was never really established or accepted as a boy and began transitioning at 15, started hormones at 17 and finished social transition immediately after graduating high school. There's not so much unusual about that except this was from 1970 to 1973. I has SRS at age 22 in 1977 which will be exactly forty years ago tomorrow.

I was fortunate enough to blend in or in today's parlance, I passed well. That was a requirement back then. I got my first job as a receptionist in a busy office at 19 and I was scared to death and more than a little paranoid of people finding out and the constant worry was draining but just a part of life. Within the next year or so, I had found an even better job where again no one knew and I always felt like I would just die if they did. It would have been the ultimate embarrassment plus in 1975~1976, society wasn't particularly favorable or knowledgeable about trans folk and I imagined all kinds of terrible things that could happen but work was going good, I had my own tiny place and was covering the bills. My mom and step-dad and the doctor I saw were the only ones that knew about my "problem".

Inside though, my life was crumbling and I was going downhill fast. Ever getting surgery seemed impossible and hopeless and depression and thoughts of ending it all only grew stronger. In my more desperate moments, I thought about robbing a bank and not even caring if I died in a shootout or something because I was headed for suicide anyway.

At rock bottom with all hopes seemingly exhausted and as a last ditch effort, I did one of the hardest things I'd ever done in my life at the time. With all embarrassment and dignity aside, I explained my situation to our HR Director at work to see if there was any chance I could get coverage through our group insurance plan to cover my operation and if she would help me find out. I figured this news would spread like wildfire throughout the company but she assured me it would be kept confidential. To make a long story short, with a lot of back and forth between multiple doctors and Met Life™, my surgery was covered, which may have been a first for them (?) and my absence was explained to my co-workers that I was out having some "female troubles" taken care of. I worked there for another two years after that and as far as I know, my privacy or stealthy-ness was maintained. Nobody treated me any differently or ask me about or anything and this was just about when Renée Richards was making headlines and people's heads were exploding. In this case, breaking stealth saved my life.

I was pretty freaked out about people knowing and felt like it would have been the end of the world if they did. This got to be a real burden to lug around and I did make a few close friends I shared my history with, one that is still a good friend even today. She helped me learn that if people know you and like you, it doesn't really matter that much and is quickly forgotten. I had slept with a few people and not said anything but began to feel guilty about that plus I knew it was dangerous as heck but at work and in the rest of my life, I was not out at all. I was still really uncomfortable with people knowing about my history because I felt I would be looked at differently. I had no involvement at all with trans or LGB anything.

Moving ahead to my late 20's, I did tell my future husband before we got married. He freaked out for a while and I thought it was over but he came around. He was a macho guy in a macho profession and I'm sure he wouldn't have been too happy for his work buddies or his parents to find out so the stealth life continued. I didn't really even think about it.

In about 1992 or '93, when I'd have been about 37-38, I became good friends with a girl at work and over time told her my story. Well, it was so juicy I guess that she had to tell everyone in the office! It was a small company though and nobody seemed to care. The owner/boss, who was never shy about letting me know he thought I was attractive (in a nice way) asked me privately one day if what he had heard about me was true. I said it was and not much more. It was never mentioned again.

I was pretty depressed and upset about this for a while. I didn't want people to know that I had changed sex and the thought that people were probably trying to picture me as male really bothered me considering I'm sure they'd have all been way off base anyway. In spite of this, life went on. People didn't treat me any differently.

In 1995, I quit this job and started my own business. I brought several big accounts with me that I had been dealing with for several years prior. Jump ahead to today and I still have some of these customers and several hundred of their employees that have known me well over twenty-five years. The last thing in the world I would want would be to have any of these folks know my trans history so as you can imagine, I'm pretty protective of my privacy.

I'm also a member of a hobby club that is mostly guys and I sure as heck wouldn't want them to know either or my neighbors who happen to love me!

Curiously, the place where I used to work where everybody knew is still in business and I started doing sub-contract work for them about ten years ago. The owner is someone I consider a friend and in all these years, anything to do with me being trans has never been mentioned again since the early '90's. It just doesn't really matter.

So, I live my life in stealth for the most part but there are a couple of people I've known a long time that do know and I'm okay with that. All my family and relatives are gone and there's no one that ever knew me before I transitioned at 18. I've really gotten over the paranoia and feeling like I have something to hide but it is still nobody's business and I'd prefer it remain private. I don't do Facebook or any other social media but I have recently come out online and have found that talking about being trans is kind of refreshing after keeping it under wraps for close to 45 years.

I have found with people that know you well, being trans is just a blip on the radar like any medical condition that was corrected a long time ago might be. It isn't even worth mentioning so I sure don't go around volunteering it. If I were to become intimate with someone, which would only happen if I knew them and cared about them, then we'd have to have the talk because for some, unfortunately being trans is still a little bit more than a blip on the radar.

Sorry for the long post. :( I've thought about this a lot over the years and never discussed it with anyone. It is kind of nice to have a place where it is okay to be out. I still don't want anybody to know though.  ;)

Lisa!...

You have traveled far and seen much!!!... I have so much respect for those who made it happen in " The Old Days"... I was a sophomore in High School in '77 when you were getting your SRS and know how little info was easily found in those days to move ahead the way you did! Kudos, Blessings and Thanks for sharing a piece of your journey with us!!!

Onward we go!

Ashley :)

Hi Lisa,
I am of your era. I graduated high school in '73 and by '77 I knew I wanted to transition. The requirements for HRT and the lack of acceptance from society scared me so much that I just buried that desire for the next 40 years.
I find this thread interesting because after a year and a half full time and 6 months post op I am considering going "stealth".

I transitioned openly so going stealth here and now would be impossible, but in a year and a half I am retiring and moving to another state where no one knows me. I can't say as I pass 100%, but well enough that I believe I could deflect any questions that could come up.

As with you I don't really like the word "stealth". I just seems to absolute. There are people that I feel would just have to know, any doctors I deal with, anyone I may have a serious sexual relationship with, legal dealings where my history may have to go back more than a few years and others that I probably haven't thought of.

In the last few months I've been going out to new places and trying to meet new people. So far no one has suspected that I transitioned or at least they don't say anything and this is kind of how I would like life to be. I don't feel as if I'm hiding anything, it just doesn't come up. I had lung surgery several years ago and that doesn't come up either. I view that and transitioning in the same light, they both happened but it's in the past and not really relevant to day to day life.

If someone were to figure it out or a good friend were to become genuinely inquisitive I would have no problem talking about my transition, though I would ask that it be kept confidential.

Can I ever go 100% stealth? Probably not. But if I can just live a normal, average everyday life as a woman I'll be very happy.

Ritana,

The wisdom of "practicing non-disclosure" (like others, I really don't like the term "stealth") ultimately depends on your own personal truth.  Because your personal truth will inform whether the practice is, emotionally speaking, an act of hiding or omission... or the most honest form of self-acceptance and way of presenting yourself to the world. 

If you do not see yourself as female, without qualification, it makes sense that practicing non-disclosure would lead to feeling bottled up, scared, anxious, what have you.  Because you aren't sharing something you consider vital to your identity, your sense of self.  On the other hand, if you really don't identify as "trans" anymore, then you might be compromising the female gendering you'd get from others around you, even from yourself, and your personal truth will consequently suffer.

So the real question is, what is your truth?

Quote from: Ritana on June 12, 2017, 10:34:13 AMI do not intend to totally give up stealth which I have enjoyed for over ten years now. I just wanna be OK with being trans should my past resurface at any point like ending up in hospital. I also think that leading your.partner to believe you are a natal wonan when.in fact your are a transgender woman is a lie no matter what excuse you have. I know being trans is not a big deal for us trans folks but it is a big deal for cis folks and in the mainstream dating world. Your past may catch up with you at any time during your life. I know this from experience.

From this (especially the bolded) it sounds like you believe you "are" trans, that this is a permanent feature of your identity, soul, spirit, etc.  If this is so, it might explain the feelings you've been having lately about practicing non-disclosure.

Quote from: Sophia Sage
From this (especially the bolded) it sounds like you believe you "are" trans, that this is a permanent feature of your identity, soul, spirit, etc.

Well. The fact "you're trans" may have nothing to do with soul/spirit/identity or whatever other purely abstract constructs. In fact, if we want to keep things as simple as possible (which is usually quite good idea) "being trans" is about having suffered a medical condition of body/identity mistmatching (to put it in a way).

So, aside being relevant or not, is part of your history. You can feel as super-duper womanly as you want, but if comes to a question of your partner about yourself, and you need to "conceit it" (making up an excuse for absence of chilhood photos, for example) I would say it is not very healthy approach.

No need to say how pitiful may be a relationship where your partner has to be unaware of certain facts about you under the risk of breaking up. I'd not wish it even to my enemies.

Yes, deep down I do believe I am trans. All of us here are. Trying to fool myself into believing I am cis is a blatant lie. That is a fact. I consider myself to be a female, but NOT a cis-female. I.suppose I could convince myself I am a cis-female but a simple visit to the doctor would prove the opposite. Very simple:))

I'm an alcoholic and you would think my favorite prayer would be the serenity prayer.
Not so.
It's actually a prayer I heard once from the late comedian Bill Hicks, who was also an alcoholic.

"Oh my God, may I know only reality and only you."

Quote from: Ritana on June 20, 2017, 10:25:57 AM
Yes, deep down I do believe I am trans. All of us here are. Trying to fool myself into believing I am cis is a blatant lie. That is a fact. I consider myself to be a female, but NOT a cis-female. I.suppose I could convince myself I am a cis-female but a simple visit to the doctor would prove the opposite. Very simple:))

Exactly Ritana!... I spent over a half century in a lie to myself that I was male... I couldn't see lying to myself and the world that I am cis female... The truth is I am female... Trans female but female all the same!..  After all this time... I am totally good with that!!!

Ashley :)

Agreed a trans-female IS a female but it's not a cis-female. Some guys are not ok with being with a trans-female and we need to respect their choice. I have spent 8 years of my life having stealth relationships with guys (I lived with 3 bf's) , none of them knew about my past, but  now I gotam to thebe stage where I've had enough of hiding.

Quote from: Ritana on June 20, 2017, 01:04:27 PM
Agreed a trans-female IS a female but it's not a cis-female. Some guys are not ok with being with a trans-female and we need to respect their choice. I have spent 8 years of my life having stealth relationships with guys (I lived with 3 bf's) , none of them knew about my past, but  now I gotam to thebe stage where I've had enough of hiding.

I think you are going to find happiness and peace if you choose to move things that direction Ritana... I married the greatest guy in the world with nothing to hide... When you are loved for all you are without hiding... Well... That is pretty hard to beat and pretty much what this life stuff is all about... At the end of it all... The only thing that matters is our loving connections in this life... Everything else is just window dressing...

Onward we go brave sister!

Ashley :)

Many thanks, Ashley, and I am happy you have found love, sister!

Hugs,

Ritana

Quote from: tgirlamcWhen you are loved for all you are without hiding... Well... That is pretty hard to beat and pretty much what this life stuff is all about... At the end of it all..

This is it!

Quote from: Ritana on June 20, 2017, 10:25:57 AMYes, deep down I do believe I am trans. All of us here are. Trying to fool myself into believing I am cis is a blatant lie. That is a fact. I consider myself to be a female, but NOT a cis-female. I.suppose I could convince myself I am a cis-female but a simple visit to the doctor would prove the opposite. Very simple:))

If that's your truth, more power to you!  :)   

This is not how I personally construct the categories of "trans" and "cis" (and yes, I do believe all categories are human constructions, though much of this process happens subconsciously).  To me, "trans" is a narrative identity constructed to mitigate gender dysphoria.  The "interior" part of being trans is predicated purely on one's emotions; the exterior on telling people about it.  The condition of "cis" is simply the absence of these things -- of having no dypshoria and no narrative of it.

In other words, I consider it as something relative and hopefully ephemeral.

This is very different from how I consider my identity of being female, which I experience as a permanent, eternal aspect of who I am.

We can have many philosophical definitions/ perceptions of being trans; however, we can all agree  that being born witha body that does notnot match our true assertion gender identity constitites tha basic, concept of being trans. Sadly, I was not born with a vagina. That does not mean I am not a female. It just means I am not a cis, female.

Ritana

Quote from: Ritana on June 20, 2017, 06:27:37 PMWe can have many philosophical definitions/ perceptions of being trans; however, we can all agree  that being born witha body that does notnot match our true assertion gender identity constitites tha basic, concept of being trans.

Um, I don't agree with that assertion?  I get it that this is how most people construct the category -- but I think this construction is incorrect. 

I maintain that the suffering of gender dysphoria is closer to the truth of it.  Because that suffering isn't apparent without narrative disclosure, I'm further inclined to believe that "being trans" is actually a socially constructed category -- with increasingly wider and fuzzier boundaries.  In general, though, that's the twofold combination that I understand at the heart of "being trans."

But then, I'm also of the opinion that the past doesn't exist. It really doesn't -- only the present exists, the here and now.  When we talk of the past, we're not talking about something real, just employing a very pervasive and cohesive metaphor for talking about our memories... and the future.  Which also doesn't exist; it's just a fiction in your head.  A story.  As is everything narrated about the past that you didn't personally experience. All of which to say, I don't privilege the "condition at birth" narrative, as it's pretty irrelevant to my here and now.

There's another reason why I'm not going to pay heed what I consider to be an incorrect view on the subject out in the big bad world -- because for a lot of people, a trans woman isn't really a woman.  And I'm sorry, but I'm not letting anyone -- anyone -- in my life have a say in the matter. 

That's the real social conundrum.  And, conversely, is "cis" even an identity?  I don't think so.  Cis people don't go around thinking they're cis.  They go around thinking they're male or female, and everyone agrees with them, without talking about it!  There's no dysphoria, and no narrative of it.  That's all that being cis is.

QuoteSadly, I was not born with a vagina. That does not mean I am not a female. It just means I am not a cis, female.

Ritana

Sadly, I was not born with a uterus.  That does not mean I am not female.  It just means I'm infertile.  Someday, this too will be a temporary condition.

Ritana, seriously consider the suggestion that you have always been female.  Always.  Maybe, just perhaps, being trans was a just a transitory phase, and all you have left to do is just let it go and stop clocking yourself.  No one else is clocking you, right?  Maybe they're right, at least in this respect.

All my best,
Sophie

Philosophy and physics aside, the person each of us is today is a collection of past experiences. It is a snap shot if we're fortunate to continue evolving. . .

Quote from: Sophia Sage on June 20, 2017, 10:03:14 PM
But then, I'm also of the opinion that the past doesn't exist. It really doesn't -- only the present exists, the here and now.  When we talk of the past, we're not talking about something real, just employing a very pervasive and cohesive metaphor for talking about our memories... and the future.  Which also doesn't exist; it's just a fiction in your head.  A story.  As is everything narrated about the past that you didn't personally experience. All of which to say, I don't privilege the "condition at birth" narrative, as it's pretty irrelevant to my here and now.

Those types of arguments were interesting and stimulating back when I was debating this stuff with KG over a decade and half ago... but in the end I've found all the intellectual acrobatics tend to more about justifying what one wants to be rather than a dispassionate analysis of what is true...

I'm now a lot older, and I can that see who I am, my emotional makeup ,and my world view is affected by the past even if it is  in ways I wish it did not... It's part of being human and IMO unavoidable.

No that is not all there is to a person, and there is change, but is it a still powerful force .... and I'm taking about a whole lot more than just gender stuff... The past is NEVER TOTALLY irrelevant to who we are now, as much as most us (those who have changed sex) wish it were not .

- karen

Quote from: Karen_A on June 21, 2017, 07:16:43 PMThose types of arguments were interesting and stimulating back when I was debating this stuff with KG over a decade and half ago... but in the end I've found all the intellectual acrobatics tend to more about justifying what one wants to be rather than a dispassionate analysis of what is true...

I do not believe "a dispassionate analysis of what is true" actually exists.  Sorry, but there's always going to be subjectivity, it's unavoidable -- be it desire, intention, purpose, what have you.  We construct maps of the world around us in our heads; there are many internally consistent ways (I am not a solipsistic "anything goes" sort of woman, and I do take how the material world actually responds as a vital check to that) to map the territory.

So I'm not going to repress my bliss.  And I've already charted my maps (with full intention) and rearranged my conceptual frameworks to serve me and my truth.

QuoteI'm now a lot older, and I can that see who I am, my emotional makeup ,and my world view is affected by the past even if it is  in ways I wish it did not... It's part of being human and IMO unavoidable.

No that is not all there is to a person, and there is change, but is it a still powerful force .... and I'm taking about a whole lot more than just gender stuff... The past is NEVER TOTALLY irrelevant to who we are now, as much as most us (those who have changed sex) wish it were not .

Memories.  You're talking about memories.

Yes, they're powerful, especially in their ability to affect our emotions before we're even aware that's taken place.  But they're not all powerful. 

Because memories are false, insofar as they are necessarily incomplete impressions of lived experience, not to mention the ramshackle storage, retrieval, and fidelity issues.  And yet, this can be a boon.  I swear my own memories have changed, down to when I was a little girl. 

If the memory system is subject to entropy anyways, might as well adjust the programming with intention, I say.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on June 21, 2017, 08:16:55 PM
Memories.  You're talking about memories.

No I'm not actually. How experiences affect who you are goes much deeper that teh memories of events or even the emotions surrounding them. Think about it ... But don't over think it...

- karen

Quote from: Karen_A on June 21, 2017, 09:40:44 PMNo I'm not actually. How experiences affect who you are goes much deeper that teh memories of events or even the emotions surrounding them. Think about it ... But don't over think it...

Sorry, you lost me there... how, exactly, does an experience affect anyone beyond emotion and memory?  And what would reside deeper than that?

Quote from: tgirlamc on June 20, 2017, 02:39:12 PM
I think you are going to find happiness and peace if you choose to move things that direction Ritana... I married the greatest guy in the world with nothing to hide... When you are loved for all you are without hiding... Well... That is pretty hard to beat and pretty much what this life stuff is all about... At the end of it all... The only thing that matters is our loving connections in this life... Everything else is just window dressing...

Onward we go brave sister!

Ashley :)

Love your new Avatar, Ash.  Lucky girl! Could you look amy more content? Lol

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 22, 2017, 11:05:35 AM
Love your new Avatar, Ash.  Lucky girl! Could you look amy more content? Lol

Thanks Lisa!

I was looking through my wedding pics the other day and thought that one had avatar written all over it!... We had a great photographer!... I had first met him to take pics of me to send to Virtual FFS years ago... and yes!!!... I am pretty content these days!... Life is good!!! :)

Onward we go!

Ashley :)

Quote from: tgirlamc on June 22, 2017, 11:26:59 AM
Thanks Lisa!

I was looking through my wedding pics the other day and thought that one had avatar written all over it!... We had a great photographer!... I had first met him to take pics of me to send to Virtual FFS years ago... and yes!!!... I am pretty content these days!... Life is good!!! :)

Onward we go!

Ashley :)

You look like it, girl. I'm a little jelly! Congratulations on having the guts and character to go get what you wanted and knew you deserved. And yeah....that may be one of the all time great Avatars. It speaks volumes. Take care, hon!

Quote from: Karen_A
all the intellectual acrobatics tend to more about justifying what one wants to be rather than a dispassionate analysis of what is true

Lol. Well put. I'd say that even before analyzing the underlying subjective reasons for a given argument, if you find "too much acrobatics" in it...  then it's likely to be bogus (this is no scientific principle, just call it good ol' heuristics given by experience lol).

Dunno. Call me empty-headed, but I never found this kind of arguments interesting at all lol. As you stated, they are usually aimed to twistingly conceit significant underlying emotional issues.

Quote from: tgirlamc on June 20, 2017, 02:39:12 PM
I think you are going to find happiness and peace if you choose to move things that direction Ritana... I married the greatest guy in the world with nothing to hide... When you are loved for all you are without hiding... Well... That is pretty hard to beat and pretty much what this life stuff is all about... At the end of it all... The only thing that matters is our loving connections in this life... Everything else is just window dressing...

Onward we go brave sister!

Ashley :)

Beautifully put Ashley.  Last week i had a break down with my wife where i told her i would understand if she wanted to start emotionally uncoupling from me, because moving forward, I can only accept being loved for exactly who i am.  fortunately for me, she's willing to try.  I hid for 45 years, I'm not planning on hiding in the future.  I accept i will lose people i care about along the way.

Quote from: Another Nikki on June 24, 2017, 11:03:11 PM
Beautifully put Ashley.  Last week i had a break down with my wife where i told her i would understand if she wanted to start emotionally uncoupling from me, because moving forward, I can only accept being loved for exactly who i am.  fortunately for me, she's willing to try.  I hid for 45 years, I'm not planning on hiding in the future.  I accept i will lose people i care about along the way.

Hi Nikki

Thank you for the kind words!!!! You sound like you are in a very good place in your mind for all that lays ahead... You carry the determination that comes from KNOWING the direction you must go!!!

It sounds like there is a lot of love there between you and her... I wish all good things for you both... I've told people when I do speaking engagements that starting transition is much like telling everyone closest to you, that you are climbing a huge mountain... Some may not want to make the journey with you....Others may try to climb with us with the best intention ...but find along the way, that their path is elsewhere and does not lead to the top where we are going... Bless them for being a part of your life and bid them safe travels... We can lose people along the way but new faces take their place to care for us and be cared for by us... this journey is about our connection to others and the world around us!!!... Have a good climb!!!

No matter what happens...All will be well

Ashley :)

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site and I actually joined because the discussion in this thread is relevant to my life.

For all intents and purposes, I'm "stealth". I started actively transitioning over 5 years ago and am now post-transition; socially for 3.5 yrs and medically for 2.5 yrs. I live 100% authentically as who I am, a female. I don't define myself as a transwoman, I'm a woman, it's who and what I am and I have no doubt of my identity.

I don't inform people whom I meet about my past life (pre-transition/transition) and I am seen/heard/experienced completely as a woman, including when being sexually intimate with someone (I fixed my birth defects very well).

I know how it feels to be treated as a woman; it feels normal, as opposed to being categorized as a trans person and subsequently treated as "other", which I experienced a lot during the earlier part of my transition. Post-transition, my experience is when people learn about my past life (on the rare occasion that I have told, or when someone discovers through the internet, or heard it from someone who knew me before) then I am treated differently, and universally rejected as a romantic partner. This romantic rejection, especially, causes me a lot of distress and anxiety and it weighs heavily upon me.... "Will I ever find someone who truly loves me and wants to be with me, regardless of my past?"

To the OP, I'm not advocating "giving up stealth", nor to others who are stealth. I am, however, very concerned for the wellbeing of those of us who are stealth and how we navigate the fear of people's un-acceptance of who we are as women, and often their outright rejection of us as viable partners (not to mention the possibility of physical violence... that thought does go through my mind when I'm with a man) :(

Thank you so much.

Wise words hun. I am not thinking about giving up stealth, just to be okay with it should my past resurface at any time.I will definitely be informing the guy I am currently dating? should ourour relationship turn into a long termtime one.   Self-acceptance as a trans is and being at peace with nesrlf is more important than anything else.

Hugs,
Ritana

Quote from: Gone Girl on July 05, 2017, 05:34:03 AM
I don't inform people whom I meet about my past life (pre-transition/transition) and I am seen/heard/experienced completely as a woman, [/b]including when being sexually intimate with someone[/b] (I fixed my birth defects very well).

I know how it feels to be treated as a woman; it feels normal, as opposed to being categorized as a trans person and subsequently treated as "other", which I experienced a lot during the earlier part of my transition. Post-transition, my experience is when people learn about my past life (on the rare occasion that I have told, [/b]or when someone discovers through the internet, or heard it from someone who knew me before)[/b] then I am treated differently, and universally rejected as a romantic partner. This romantic rejection, especially, causes me a lot of distress and anxiety and it weighs heavily upon me.... "Will I ever find someone who truly loves me and wants to be with me, regardless of my past?"

In my experience, you will find someone but you may have to kiss a lot of toads before finding your Prince Charming. Why anyone would want to have a serious LTR with someone that didn't know and accept everything about me including my history would leave me in constant fear of discovery and rejection and with the distress and anxiety you mentioned. The longer this hiding business goes on, the deeper the cut and more intense the pain if it happens.

I understand this isn't really hiding per se and how the whole concept of being trans and stealth is not a deception but most without our perspective don't see it that way. I also understand the downsides of being known as a woman with an asterisk or with the preceding adjective of trans so we're on the same page about that but there's always a measure of Catch-22 involved.

Considering there are people that knew you before and the fact that you can easily be discovered through the Internet, you're playing with fire and are likely to get burned if you're talking about real relationships and not flings or hook-ups.

I went there with my husband. We started out as friends but after six or seven months, things snowballed and I became way too invested emotionally without him knowing. Even though there is no one that knew me before (I transitioned 44 years ago) and there's no Internet breadcrumbs for someone to follow, I felt he still had to know and I told him expecting the worst. For a while, I was rejected and was completely devastated and it wasn't until nearly a month later after I'd given up all hope that I heard a single word from him. He called me at work and wanted to know where the hell I'd been. We were married within a year.

QuoteTo the OP, I'm not advocating "giving up stealth", nor to others who are stealth. I am, however, very concerned for the wellbeing of those of us who are stealth and how we navigate the fear of people's un-acceptance of who we are as women, and often their outright rejection of us as viable partners (not to mention the possibility of physical violence... that thought does go through my mind when I'm with a man) :(

This is something we all must learn to live with and balance. Even though past lives and transition may be many years ago and we are fully integrated into the world as just women without asterisks or extra adjectives, our history is still a part of who we are and always will be regardless of how much we want to believe otherwise. That can be a depressing thought but it is a cross we all must bear.

Being of trans experience is hard. It certainly gets better and fades into the past but it is something always with us even if only in our own minds that we each must deal with accordingly. I've been "stealth" a long time, probably a lot longer than most but I still can't live in denial about how I was born or the first 15 years of my life. If someone can't deal with that and all of me, then they're not worthy of my affections.

I too think this is a great post.  I do live stealth, however I am too fearful of how a guy would react if he did find out, to not be honest with a guy I am intimate with. I am currently preop, but I go through all lengths to protect my past. I carry a tampon in my purse, I have them in my bathroom under the sink.  I luckily have a cousin who looks very similar to me, so I have pics of her when she was little that I pretend are me lol (I mean literally how crazy do I sound, having a very Carrie Bradshaw typing in front of the window realizing I'm literally out of my mind-moment)

Do I sext guys and "pretend to be cisgender online and snapchat my boobs to get some dick pics?" absolutely.  Which some may see as dangerous but in my experience of doing so for several years only once have I ran into a guy I met online in person and it was a huge event and we didn't even talk just waved so I wasn't really too worried.

So with me, I am not out except to close friends & any guy I would be intimate with in person.  I still have a ton of anxiety and I think if I had a job where I felt it was more acceptable to be trans (like doing makeup or hair, etc) or I lived in California that I would come out and feel a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders.  However at this point it's not something I'm really ready to do.

How I handle guys out and in person is if a guy wants to come with me, I'll make up an excuse like I have to go and do something, but give me your number and as soon as I'm done we can meet up.  Then after I leave I text him and I'm just honest.... Hey you're hot AF, I would rock your world, but I wanted to be honest about the fact that I'm trans.    This saves me face, and protects me in case he flips out, but it also makes it easier for him, so that he's not "embarrassed" so to speak.

note: I also want to add part of why I live stealth is because I was bullied, terribly, my entire life from 1st grade to after high school.  The only time this ended was when I started living as a woman.  If you can imagine 12 plus years of torment, everyday bullying and then you're given this gift of being viewed as a woman and literally guys hit on you in stead of physically hit on you, it's amazing.  That's why I don't want to come out online and 100%.  I see the things that people post on Jazz Jennings instagram and other peoples social media and I don't want to go back to that. 


just my 2 cents.. I wish you all the luck!

I'm still pre op so take with a grain of salt , but I'd stop the stealth with partners  and just be stealth with the rest of society

Quote from: Ritana on June 20, 2017, 10:25:57 AM
Yes, deep down I do believe I am trans. All of us here are. Trying to fool myself into believing I am cis is a blatant lie. That is a fact. I consider myself to be a female, but NOT a cis-female. I.suppose I could convince myself I am a cis-female but a simple visit to the doctor would prove the opposite. Very simple:))

Hear hear. I guess I agree with you on many points... I've transitioned at a younger age as well, and as a result am enjoying my 'passing privilege'. You know what it boiled down to for me in the end? Being a woman is a matter of who you are. There are many ways this is intwined into your personality, but I believe the personality and the person you are, are NOT the same thing. Let me elaborate a bit on that....

I started transitioning when I was 23 years old, and quickly got to the point that I had a full passing. As I got older, my only goal was to live as a ciswoman, since I believed there were no differences between me and that. But as the years kept creaping on, I ended up developing this nagging feeling I had left something behind. A part of me simply didn't get on the train when I chose to take off, it got left behind and the greater the distance, the more I felt that this part of me was missing.

Even though I now believe have always been female, transition and life in general is about becoming a full, balanced and happy person. Leaving parts of yourself suffocate in the past doesn't help in this regard. My choice to resolve the situation was a unique one, I fully detransitioned and moved to another country to start over (hadn't had SRS yet) and tried to find this male part again. This was a success, and it actually made me happy as a man for a little while.

Since then, I rebooted my transition and right now I'm happily living stealth and being post op. Even though, there are people who do know, and people who don't. Those who know are part of a community of real friends, of people who have seen me through the experiences described above, or of people who I have come to feel comfortable enough with to start explaining who I am and what matters to me.

Being stealth, for me, isn't about wanting to be cis, it's about a choice you take to make it easier on society to accept you as female. If I were to live in a world where telling the majority of people that I was a transwoman would make me happy, I guess I would live a more open life. But alas, to my opinion many people still lag behind, even those who are tolerant of our existance. We still, albeit subconsciously, get branded as 'different', we get othered and thus get a separate treatment. Unfortunately, I haven't found society chance a lot in the last 10 years or so that I've lived as trans, open or not. So to get back to what Sophia Sage meant (I believe): our truth is that we're women. But with society being a bitch on us, we have to help a bit and leave out some parts when dealing with most people.

We all have our emotional needs, and being trans with a passing privilege is a balancing act. Being othered isn't nice, we're women and we can and do want to live that way. So non-disclosure is in some ways a necessary evil. But on the other hand, as others have stated, living a lie is never a good thing.

You don't have to be cis to be a woman, but as long as the world hasn't got that simple fact etched into their harts, I'll keep living stealth with a couple of intimi around me for emotional support.

Quote from: LiliFee on July 17, 2017, 07:00:16 AMBeing stealth, for me, isn't about wanting to be cis, it's about a choice you take to make it easier on society to accept you as female. If I were to live in a world where telling the majority of people that I was a transwoman would make me happy, I guess I would live a more open life. But alas, to my opinion many people still lag behind, even those who are tolerant of our existance. We still, albeit subconsciously, get branded as 'different', we get othered and thus get a separate treatment.

I'm still of the opinion that "cis" and "trans" are not permanent categories... nor would I call them "basic level categories" like we have for girls and boys and men and women.  "Cis" and "trans" are purely social constructions, and "trans" at this point is such a huge umbrella term for all kinds of different conditions that it's started to lose meaning for me.

I equate "being trans" with gender dysphoria, which in my experience had internal and external dimensions -- internally generated dysphoria about my body, and externally generated social dysphoria.  Changing my body healed the former, and full social assimilation healed the latter. 

And to achieve full social assimilation, I necessarily had to practice non-disclosure, so I could learn what I missed out on growing up, what it's like to be properly gendered and how that shapes our social interactions.  This took several years, long after all the surgeries were complete!  But this gets to the crux of our situation -- to be properly gendered, in today's Western culture overall, disclosure really gets in the way of that.  Because so many other people tend to believe that our external conditions at birth determine "who we really are."  Disclosure is kind of like asking people to treat you differently, but that's exactly what I don't want!

Perhaps, at some point in the future, our society will become spiritually enlightened, and see only the person on the inside in the here and now, without regard for external signifiers or narrative considerations.  We don't live in that society now, but I am hopeful, because I do know individuals (and even small pockets of communities) who are just that.

Sophia Sage

Your view is very positive and enlightening; unfortunately, society's perception of transgenders is still backward.

Until the change, you discuss in your reply, becomes a reality I will continue to live stealth - with the exception of long term partners.

Hugs,

Ritana

I really like your thoughts about being genuine in that respect. Its a very personal decision and there is no right answer but to me, your plan sounds considerably less stressful. Will there be other stresses it causes, probably but you can be yourself without fear.

It is interesting how stealth is used as a term on both ends of feminization (or masculization) sides of the spectrum.

I also agree that cis and trans are constructs. Onward society progresses.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on July 17, 2017, 08:07:46 AM
I'm still of the opinion that "cis" and "trans" are not permanent categories... nor would I call them "basic level categories" like we have for girls and boys and men and women.  "Cis" and "trans" are purely social constructions, and "trans" at this point is such a huge umbrella term for all kinds of different conditions that it's started to lose meaning for me.

[...]

Perhaps, at some point in the future, our society will become spiritually enlightened, and see only the person on the inside in the here and now, without regard for external signifiers or narrative considerations.  We don't live in that society now, but I am hopeful, because I do know individuals (and even small pockets of communities) who are just that.

And that's exactly the point... As women with a history that involves transition, we are more aware of these issues. however, the bulk of society isn't. I guess I would really prefer disclosure if I knew everybody around me would still see me as a woman. Sadly, that's not the case, so I have to 'help them' a bit and leave out the bits that might confuse them. It's like talking to children, in a way. hehe  ::)

I suppose  there is no right or wrong when.it comes to disclosure. Lessons gathered throughout your experience will shape your decision.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 05, 2017, 09:08:05 PM
I'd stop the stealth with partners  and just be stealth with the rest of society

Ditto,  absolutey agree, I'm effectively stealth, my husband knows but not his friends or work colleagues, I would attend Christmas parties etc when wives are invited, nobody knows, I'm just another guy's wife, just another woman.

I have been stealth since my SRS and agree with both points of view... I want to continue living in stealth mode but it is definitely more stressful living stealth and most of my major heartbreaks from trusted people are related to betrayals intentional or unintentional regarding my past.

Quote from: Ritana on July 17, 2017, 12:52:00 PMUntil the change, you discuss in your reply, becomes a reality I will continue to live stealth - with the exception of long term partners...

I suppose there is no right or wrong when it comes to disclosure. Lessons gathered throughout your experience will shape your decision.

I don't disclose to anyone, not even long-term partners.  The only person I'd even think of disclosing to would be someone on the same path as me. 

As to right and wrong, well... if there's right and wrong, it's on the axis of practicality.  To me, non-disclosure is right in the sense that I've found it the most effective way to get 100% correct gendering over the long term. 

Quote from: Miss Lux on July 18, 2017, 06:34:34 PM
I have been stealth since my SRS and agree with both points of view... I want to continue living in stealth mode but it is definitely more stressful living stealth and most of my major heartbreaks from trusted people are related to betrayals intentional or unintentional regarding my past.

Yeah, I found it stressful too, in the early going.  It took a while for me to develop the self-confidence that I wasn't being clocked but indulged.  It took a while for me to believe that I wasn't going to get clocked.  It took a while for that critical, editorial, incessantly commenting voice in my head to finally shut up. 

"A while" lasted about two years. 

And it definitely takes discipline.  The only "trusted people" I have are my parents and sister and her family.  I've made it quite clear that any breach of protocol (intentional or unintentional) will end our relationship, and so they are good.  No, better than that, they are impeccable.  Everyone else I had to let go of, move on from.  And though it was hard, that was ultimately so freeing for me, to go out in the world and just be me in the present, in the here and now, without the constraint of a certain narrative. 

Quote from: Gone Girl on July 05, 2017, 05:34:03 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site and I actually joined because the discussion in this thread is relevant to my life.

For all intents and purposes, I'm "stealth". I started actively transitioning over 5 years ago and am now post-transition; socially for 3.5 yrs and medically for 2.5 yrs. I live 100% authentically as who I am, a female. I don't define myself as a transwoman, I'm a woman, it's who and what I am and I have no doubt of my identity.

I don't inform people whom I meet about my past life (pre-transition/transition) and I am seen/heard/experienced completely as a woman, including when being sexually intimate with someone (I fixed my birth defects very well).

I know how it feels to be treated as a woman; it feels normal, as opposed to being categorized as a trans person and subsequently treated as "other", which I experienced a lot during the earlier part of my transition. Post-transition, my experience is when people learn about my past life (on the rare occasion that I have told, or when someone discovers through the internet, or heard it from someone who knew me before) then I am treated differently, and universally rejected as a romantic partner. This romantic rejection, especially, causes me a lot of distress and anxiety and it weighs heavily upon me.... "Will I ever find someone who truly loves me and wants to be with me, regardless of my past?"

To the OP, I'm not advocating "giving up stealth", nor to others who are stealth. I am, however, very concerned for the wellbeing of those of us who are stealth and how we navigate the fear of people's un-acceptance of who we are as women, and often their outright rejection of us as viable partners (not to mention the possibility of physical violence... that thought does go through my mind when I'm with a man) :(

Thank you so much.

Gone Girl,

Sorry this is so late.

Welcome to the site. Thanks for sharing so much  personal information and your opinions. We have many members at all levels of transition and all over the trans spectrum. It is helpful experience that really guides many of our members.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)	Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)	News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Jacqui

Ritana

I am someone else who has lived kind of stealthy.  Liked Lisa_K I transitioned in the 70s, SRS in 77 at age 26.

My journey does have a few kinks.  In the Navy from 69-74, and in 72-73 they learned about my being Trans.  So for the rest of my life until I retired I have been out to the US Security agencies.  I held Secret to Top Secret clearances for all that time.

I was never really stealth as I stayed with the company from 74-92, so many there knew me before.  For the two companies after that I was stealth.  The last being the Dept of Army, if they knew they never said anything.

I have been completely out with my family since 1975/76.
But to most every one else I was not out, except for a few in the LGBT community back then. 

I tried some dating with men in the 70s-80s, and was not out to them.  Being TS back then was fairly rare so few ever even thought of that.  After a few years this did give me some anxiety, always worried one would find some little thing.  You have to be very careful with idle chat about your past.  I mentioned to one that I had been in the Navy.  He asked if I was in the Waves, and I quickly said yes.

I had lived with my partner from 1976-2014, we always had an open relationship.  Being with men was never very satisfying so I gave up on that.
In 1983 we bought a house in the suburbs and just grew old blending in as two woman.

In 2014 she died and I decided to come back to the LGBT community to see what has been going on.  I also have been trying to connect with others that transitioned in the 70s.  It was so different than what is done today.

I am very open to all in the LGBT crowd if they want to know my past.  But even than some may not put it together.  Couple of months past a fun black woman I would dance and cuddle with in the clubs.  I showed her a pic of me and my partner, and my Company ID after my name change.  She asked why I changed my name, and I asked her that she did not know I was Trans.

Since the start of 2016 I have opened my FB page to all that request to be friends.  Up till then it was only family, and since they all knew, was no reason not to.

So for the general public I am still stealth, but don't hide it from anyone that may inquire.  To tell the truth in the general public I have NEVER been questioned about my being a woman.

At times I'm not so sure coming back out has been good.  Because of my age and year of SRS, many want to make a big deal of it.  I guess for some it is an inspiration that we can live long fruitful lives.  I have been meeting many great people in the whole LGBT area.

Hi Ritana, you mentioned you wanted to remain stealth with your friends. There is the possibility that a guy can out you to them at some point. So, please consider that before telling.

I'm all for people being open about who they are and life experiences as long as they are ready for it and making the choice themselves. Things have changed so much over the past 20 years and I feel like most of its been for the better. I know once I finished undergraduate school and reached a certain point in my nursing career I started trying to give back to the community a little by not being completely stealth. I don't just tell people but if it comes up I don't mind telling anymore.

Quote from: warmbody28 on July 31, 2017, 04:28:48 PMI don't just tell people but if it comes up I don't mind telling anymore.

I like this approach.

Especially in consideration of what it's like when no one asks.

Actually i was thinking about this the other day. I was with a group of friends who've known me for the last 10 years and who know nothing about my past. We were in a party, and male friends were giving me cheek kisses and friendly hugs. I don't thinK I would get the same treatment if they knew about my past. In their eyes, I would probably just be a mutilated  guy in a dress. Being a cis does give you a form of security and protection against possible discrimination resulting from transphobia (although it does not increase your value as a human being in reality) . It makes your life easier. That's why I am not ready to give up stealth, not yet anyway.

I'm still pre-op (11 weeks, Mr. Limpy.  Make your peace...), but have been full time for a while.  As far as anyone else is concerned, if they ask me, I am a woman.  If they press, they get my "I am a human being" speech, in which they get a pretty good picture of what bigotry really looks like (check the mirror...).

I WILL declare in public that I am a transgender person, particularly when I am making a point in a public forum.  I recently declared on an open mike in front of a couple hundred people that I am a transgender veteran, for example, to remind a congressperson that we exist and are constituents with a support base (an upcoming bill may impact trans folks in military service).

I am definitely not stealth, and am pretty easy to read, but I seek to use that to our mutual advantage.  Around me, every day is the Transgender Day of Visibility. ;)   I do not normally advertise my transgender nature when out in public, and do seek to pass at casual inspection. That's a basic safety issue.

I would love to get FFS someday and have passing privilege.  Being followed around at a mall by a screaming religious fundamentalist is Not Fun.  I'm not there yet, and I may be forced onto a federal government medical program when I turn 65, before I can get to the front of the queue for FFS, which would put insurance coverage at risk and force me to pay the full price.  (Going overseas would be an option then, but that puts me at the back of another queue.  :-\ )

Even with full passing privilege, or perhaps even because of full passing privilege, I would still be out for purposes of promoting our need for safety, legal protection, and support against a hostile transphobic culture.  I can't bring myself to consider "I've got mine!  So long!" as a reasonable path for me, personally.  That's just how I am.

I am so sorry to hear your experience at the.mall. They claim religion is about spreading love,  peace and tolerance. Where ia tolerance?

Quote from: Ritana on August 01, 2017, 11:00:25 AM
I am so sorry to hear your experience at the.mall. They claim religion is about spreading love,  peace and tolerance. Where ia tolerance?

Oh, they were pretty much insane.  No internal censors or social behavioral limits, so tolerance isn't a consideration.  This is pretty common with persons engaging in intense substance abuse for long periods of time, and those who have been unable to cope with living in a society.  I'm not being judgemental here, just reflecting on my experience working with the chronic homeless community.  I cook in shelter programs, and pretty much discount the opinions of the folks there on anything other than my cooking.   Homelessness and substance abuse take their toll on the mind.

Cooking for homeless people and providing help and assistance to the vulnerable is such a remarkable thing to do!

Quote from: Ritana on August 01, 2017, 06:58:17 AM
Actually i was thinking about this the other day. I was with a group of friends who've known me for the last 10 years and who know nothing about my past. We were in a party, and male friends were giving me cheek kisses and friendly hugs. I don't thinK I would get the same treatment if they knew about my past. In their eyes, I would probably just be a mutilated  guy in a dress. Being a cis does give you a form of security and protection against possible discrimination resulting from transphobia (although it does not increase your value as a human being in reality) . It makes your life easier. That's why I am not ready to give up stealth, not yet anyway.

I have to say you are correct. The more people who know the more things change in their views of you. I remember when I was in high school and even when I first started university even know I had finished transition I was still considered a pariah. It sucked because guys who like you can become scared to be seen with you in public but it really just depends on where you stay and also your looks.

Quote from: Wednesday on June 10, 2017, 08:41:11 AM
Sounds wise. Dunno, call me weird, but I wouldn't want to take the burden of anxiety for life due to living stealth. If you're able to live without anxiety, sounds good, but if you're suffering... doesn't look like a good idea.

And I know some girls will throw at me things like "but you say that because you're unable to pass", "you look trans", etc. Even if passable 1000000% in any kind of situation, I wouldn't take the anxiety, no thanks.

The gag is you are beyond passable ... so if somebody ever tell you otherwise they are just straight up hating

Totally agree. I can't and deny my past and the fact that I was born intersex. Doctors knew long before I said anything and even before transition considering all the surgeries that occurred before I was even school age. Now days I go through with if people don't ask about my past, then I don't tell them about it. It rarely ever comes up. Fact is I'm happy being me and not trying to hide anything. The idea of being stealth or not was something I through around, but decided against hiding entirely considering it would cause more grief. Of the two people I seriously dated I told both of them so as to not hide anything from them after all a good foundation to any relationship is rust especially if your going to marry them eventually. You and you alone can make this choice, but I recommend you follow your heart and go with what feels right to you because fighting against that will cause your grief and pain. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Ritana on June 20, 2017, 10:25:57 AM
Yes, deep down I do believe I am trans. All of us here are. Trying to fool myself into believing I am cis is a blatant lie. That is a fact. I consider myself to be a female, but NOT a cis-female. I.suppose I could convince myself I am a cis-female but a simple visit to the doctor would prove the opposite. Very simple:))

Quote from: Ritana on June 10, 2017, 07:18:30 AM
Hi everyone!

First, I don't want this topic to be a conflict around stealth vs no- stealth. I am going through a difficult period, and Just want to talk about it and possibly get your different insights into the situation.

I am 30 years old this year, and I'm 8 years post op, Since the begining of my transition, and up till now now, I have always lived a stealth lifestyle, with the exception of the first year shen I wasn't fully passable.



Over the last couple of years, I have been feeling the weight of the pressure caused by living stealth. I have had a few boyfriends who didn't know anything about my past. One of them however did have doubts as he noticed the discreet and almost invisible v shaped scars on my vagina, but I was very  quick to dismiss his concerns when he asked me.


For the last 11 years, I've had numerous surgeries to look and sound as passable as possible. These include ffs, srs, fat transfer to hips and bum, 2 ba's and vfs. I rarely wear heels, and I akways keep my make-up to a minimum to avoid the ->-bleeped-<- look... anyway, that's to say, I have done everything possible to live as a regular, normal ciswoman.



Not.sure if it's because of the fact that I I am getting wiser, but lately I have come to the conclusion that throughout our transitiong, many of us develop a form of transphobia, generated by the hostility and stigma attached to being transgender by society. I remember feeling happy,  positive and somewhat proud of being  a transexual at the very beginning of my transition. Sadly, my vision has since  changed and I have become an internalised transphobe if this makes sense??? I created a world for myself, which is 100 percent trans-free, with the exception of my orange dialator which I keep in a secret cupboard for my monthly use.

The question asked by my last partner regarding my trans status caused me a lot grief and anxiety. It made me realise that after all, I am still a post-op transgender woman, and that I have created another closet world for myself in which I am leading a secret life that is putting me a lot of pressure, which in turn is causing me to lead an anxious  and unfulfilled life.

I am thinking of giving up some aspects of my stealth lifestyle, especially with prospective partners and in some other social situation. In other words, I am have not thinking of coming out to everyone, but simply be somewhat less ashamed of who I really am if this makes sense.

I have come to the conclusion that unless you really love yourself and are proud of and at peace with who you really are, you will never be truly happy.

What are your thoughts on this?

Many thanks in advance!

Ritana

I think he went there because he wanted you to be honest to him bout it ... He probably knew and that is why he mentioned it ...
and if that is your pic ... good gawd you're gorgeous

Yes that's my pic, thanks for the compliment.

I have never been clocked. I've had several boyfriends I lived with, shared holidays with, taken showers with. No one questioned my gender. I have also worked as a cisfemale escort and did a couple of adult sex films as a cisfemsle in the past. No one knew about me being trans except the producer.  With my last bf, he had a big fetish about performing oral sex. He could just be happy and content with that. He liked to lick for hours .and hours. In his words, he is "ultimate vagina expert"'

Unfortunately, we live in 2017... V sbaped.scars -although subtle- on a vajina can trigger the trans alarm.

I don't think I ever considered stealth for the same reason I nevered considered breastforms, hip filling, wigs.... I'd like to be myself now. I'm a trans, I'd never say I'm a cis girl because I don't feel like one and I won't pretend I do no matter how much I wish I had been born female. I even have troubles calling myself a lesbian. I avoid that term.

Even though I'm proud of bring trans, if they don't ask, I don't tell. It's not the most important thing about me, so I don't say that part as soon as I meet someone new. Some of my classmates still treat me as a male. But if you ask, you need to know, or I get to trust you, I have no problem with saying it. I make a lot of jokes about it with my friends...

In my opinion, there are some people that deserve to know. i'm no talking about a one-night-stand, but if you meet a guy and you start to imagine a life together, he deserves to know. I'd like him to know, so he can accept me for who I really am or go away.

I'm effectively fully stealth. The very few people I interact with who have knowledge (parents, doctors) have no ability to project that knowledge onto my livelihood. It's not something I talk about. I interact with nobody I grew up knowing.

You get to pick the sacrifice you make - that's all. You don't get to not make one. You're sacrificial whether you want to be or not. I'm young enough to let that sacrifice simply be the course I have to take for my life. I don't get the normal life of giving birth to a family that will endure beyond me on this planet. I have to make my impact some other way, and that is an enormous burden. It's not the choice I would've made. But I have to frame it into a stealth identity.

And I have to have a story I can relate about myself - for this I like to work with understanding when the truth you're actually telling someone may not be the truth they think they hear, by which it will do you justice. That's called magic. It makes people your allies instead of pushing them away. There's nothing amoral about doing yourself justice after being burdened with gender dysphoria for some fraction of your lifetime.

My heart goes out to those who cannot stealth and want to - or who transition in school or other situations where it's just impossible to do so - because I think at our core, it's what most women want. There's an underlying desire to just live your life and not be constantly in this 'other' category based on your natal reproductive assignment. Society has not really changed on a lot of very deep issues like race. I don't think you can really expect to change how people will treat you or anybody else.

There are people who truly want to be different, especially who identify more with the queer movement, but that has it own sacrifices. I tried making friends with queer groups in the past and recently, and for me it's truly a core difference of just not identifying with the queer mentality at all. Unless your goal is to be a loud & proud, visible activist promoting trans rights, I really don't see the point in intentionally breaking stealth, even with those who would be sympathetic.

I think if you conceptualize yourself as an ordinary female and have the means to make such an existence happen for yourself, stick with it. It's truly not a 'phobia' to want to be yourself, when that will is guided by a higher vision for what it means to be female: 'truly liberated' from what is nothing more than an ameliorated biological matter.

Quote from: OU812 on August 18, 2017, 06:03:38 PM
My heart goes out to those who cannot stealth and want to - or who transition in school or other situations where it's just impossible to do so - because I think at our core, it's what most women want. There's an underlying desire to just live your life and not be constantly in this 'other' category based on your natal reproductive assignment. Society has not really changed on a lot of very deep issues like race. I don't think you can really expect to change how people will treat you or anybody else.

There are people who truly want to be different, especially who identify more with the queer movement, but that has it own sacrifices. I tried making friends with queer groups in the past and recently, and for me it's truly a core difference of just not identifying with the queer mentality at all. Unless your goal is to be a loud & proud, visible activist promoting trans rights, I really don't see the point in intentionally breaking stealth, even with those who would be sympathetic.

Thank you, I am so glad for those women who have the option to be stealth and always remembwer that that's not a guarantee of happiness. Much as I surely envy those who make that transition, as you say, either path has its sacrifices.

For me I don't think loud and proud exactly fits, here's what I'm conscious of in identifying with the lgbt communities. They are home and family to me. They are the people who first accepted me for me where my biological family has at best largely misunderstood the core things that make me who I am and at worst have vilified me and mine in their ignorance.

I happen to work in one of the more visible programs at my university and one aspect of being non-passing is that that makes me visible. It's not a situation I would choose and yet I feel glad to be so visibly trans. It means a lot of people who might think they don't (didn't) know any trans people know a little more about this reality.

Quote from: OU812 on August 18, 2017, 06:03:38 PMYou get to pick the sacrifice you make - that's all. You don't get to not make one. You're sacrificial whether you want to be or not...

There are people who truly want to be different, especially who identify more with the queer movement, but that has it own sacrifices. I tried making friends with queer groups in the past and recently, and for me it's truly a core difference of just not identifying with the queer mentality at all. Unless your goal is to be a loud & proud, visible activist promoting trans rights, I really don't see the point in intentionally breaking stealth, even with those who would be sympathetic.

I think if you conceptualize yourself as an ordinary female and have the means to make such an existence happen for yourself, stick with it. It's truly not a 'phobia' to want to be yourself, when that will is guided by a higher vision for what it means to be female: 'truly liberated' from what is nothing more than an ameliorated biological matter.

Wise words.

Yes, not everyone gets to choose which sacrifice to make.  For those of us who do have a choice, though, I think it has to come down to one's personal truth about who you really are.  And that answer can only come from within.

Ritana, have you considered going to a group transgender meeting?  Just listen if you want but hear what people are going through.  It will remind you of why you went stealth in the first place.

We tend to forget some of the subtle issues we had but they help form who we are.  Understanding yourself a little better might help you to decide.

Good luck in whatever you decide.  And I agree, you're picture, you're lovely.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Denise on August 19, 2017, 09:48:56 AM
Ritana, have you considered going to a group transgender meeting?  Just listen if you want but hear what people are going through.  It will remind you of why you went stealth in the first place.

We tend to forget some of the subtle issues we had but they help form who we are.  Understanding yourself a little better might help you to decide.

Good luck in whatever you decide.  And I agree, you're picture, you're lovely.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Very true. I recently had a taste of that when i i disclosed to a doctor. I hadthe shock of my life!

Never again!!

in general, at least in the big cities on the coasts, I would think the penalty for being "out" is a lot less then it used to be.

For myself while in an ideal world I would love to be stealth, I have both physical issues that make highly improbable in this T* aware age, and spouse of 30 years from 'before' that stayed with me , loves me and needs me, and who I care about deeply.

I always wanted to be stealth (who goes into this NOT wanting that?) and still do, but to do that I would have to pass better than I can (I have had FFS with good results), as well as ditch my spouse, which I  could not do and live with myself.

I know the desire to just be a normal woman socially will never go away, and sometimes how things wound up gets me depressed... but we all have to deal the hand we have been dealt as best we can.

I went full time 20 years ago this month, SRS 19 years ago and FFS 18 years ago.

Live goes on.

- Karen