This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...
To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -
1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.
It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.
2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".
I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.
I don't have a problem with someone knowing I'm trans, though I do feel later in life I'll want to attempt a somewhat stealth lifestyle... Anyway, my issue is someone liking me for something I am rather than the way I am. Eh, confusing probably...
Somethings I am: White, short, petite, trans, etc.
The way I am: Caring, understanding, open-minded, kind, affectionate, sense of humor, etc.
So, specific to being trans; if someone likes me because I'm trans, that's no different than someone saying they like me because I'm petite. Eventually without someone finding me attractive due to the way I am, one can find my physical attributes attractive all they'd like; I would be flattered and appreciative, but hardly interested.
Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 02, 2012, 01:28:24 AM
I don't have a problem with someone knowing I'm trans, though I do feel later in life I'll want to attempt a somewhat stealth lifestyle... Anyway, my issue is someone liking me for something I am rather than the way I am. Eh, confusing probably...
Somethings I am: White, short, petite, trans, etc.
The way I am: Caring, understanding, open-minded, kind, affectionate, sense of humor, etc.
So, specific to being trans; if someone likes me because I'm trans, that's no different than someone saying they like me because I'm petite. Eventually without someone finding me attractive due to the way I am, one can find my physical attributes attractive all they'd like; I will be flattered and appreciative, but hardly interested.
That is my point exactly - why turn down someone if h/she likes you because you are trans and is attracted to you for that?
I understand if someone
fetishize you and reduce you to a sex object like a "chick with dick" and focuses on your genitals as the sole of attradtion. I get that totally.
You fought hard to become the transwoman you are; celebrate and take pride in it as one of the attributes that people find attractive about you, IMHO.
I m proud of being deaf, and I already face a lot of discrimination and oppression from ignorant hearing people... so I rejoice when people want to befriend me beause they say, "I ve always loved deaf people and think sign language is cool!" or men telling me , "I think that is sexy that you re deaf". That shows acceptance and progression.
I guess I
do know what I am talking about , after all, huh?
Because, for me, being transsexual is just a label for society to explain that I was once a man and now I am a woman. I see myself as a female. Transsexual is simply a label in which I identify to a select few to explain the process in which I became a woman. In an ideal society, I honestly believe there would be no need for such labels as labels simply describe something that sets us apart. I, personally, have no desire to be set apart but be part of the "within."
As a result, I have no desire for someone to date me because I am transsexual because, for me, that person will be dating a label in which I am attached to.
I have absolutely nothing against the women who transitioned but want to keep their genitalia so please do not misunderstand but, prior to my surgery, I had no desire for a man (or woman) to want me because I was a woman with a penis. Or a "Transsexual."
I'm an Asian woman and I've met many guys who only date Asian women. It never really bothered me. I don't think I was fetishized though, I just think some guys are attracted to the way Asian women look and they like their background and culture.
I can understand how trans people might not want to be "chased" or fetishized, though I imagine that there are guys who are attracted to transwomen for reasons other than just the sexual component. Maybe there's something about the male/female experience transwomen have gone through. I think transwomen are probably more sensitive and compassionate than GGs, due to their unique experiences. I would say at least give the guys a chance and don't assume that it's a sex/fetish thing.
mmm ..well iw ill always like more be wanted as a transexual girl rather a guy... :/ ...be wanted as a guy...usually suck...at least for me
If they see me being trans as a bonus, that's cool. And I want my partner to like my body, for whatever reason. As long as they like other things about me.
I disagree with being grateful though. I'm pretty ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome (modest too, obviously). No need to be grateful. :P
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 01:41:32 AM
That is my point exactly - why turn down someone if h/she likes you because you are trans and is attracted to you for that?
I understand if someone fetishize you and reduce you to a sex object like a "chick with dick" and focuses on your genitals as the sole of attradtion. I get that totally.
You fought hard to become the transwoman you are; celebrate and take pride in it as one of the attributes that people find attractive about you, IMHO.
I m proud of being deaf, and I already face a lot of discrimination and oppression from ignorant hearing people... so I rejoice when people want to befriend me beause they say, "I ve always loved deaf people and think sign language is cool!" or men telling me , "I think that is sexy that you re deaf". That shows acceptance and progression.
I guess I do know what I am talking about , after all, huh?
We agree that being trans is a part of us, however, I feel we part ways beyond the simple understanding of this. If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that doesn't bother him (implying it was something else that first made him attracted to me), then I have no issues. If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that's the reason he wants to hook up, then I most definitely have an issue.
Quote from: Sarah7 on January 02, 2012, 01:55:33 AM
If they see me being trans as a bonus, that's cool. And I want my partner to like my body, for whatever reason. As long as they like other things about me.
I disagree with being grateful though. I'm pretty ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome (modest too, obviously). No need to be grateful. :P
Oh, definitely - we must not settle for what we can get, we must demand the best that we can get! No pity or charity from people who want to give us mercy ->-bleeped-<-s * shudders *
I've had an ->-bleeped-<- tell me online at OkCupid , "So you are trans huh? bet no one wants to f*** you but babe, I'll do it"
Quote from: Annah on January 02, 2012, 01:48:08 AM
Because, for me, being transsexual is just a label for society to explain that I was once a man and now I am a woman. I see myself as a female. Transsexual is simply a label in which I identify to a select few to explain the process in which I became a woman. In an ideal society, I honestly believe there would be no need for such labels as labels simply describe something that sets us apart. I, personally, have no desire to be set apart but be part of the "within."
As a result, I have no desire for someone to date me because I am transsexual because, for me, that person will be dating a label in which I am attached to.
I have absolutely nothing against the women who transitioned but want to keep their genitalia so please do not misunderstand but, prior to my surgery, I had no desire for a man (or woman) to want me because I was a woman with a penis. Or a "Transsexual."
But that is paradoxical if you are going to be open about being trans - a man cannot date you without accepting you as trans as a part of the "attractiveness" package.
Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 02, 2012, 01:56:13 AM
We agree that being trans is a part of us, however, I feel we part ways beyond the simple understanding of this. If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that doesn't bother him (implying it was something else that first made him attracted to me), then I have no issues. If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that's the reason he wants to hook up, then I most definitely have an issue.
well honestly I don't see the big deal because like i said, I ve been approached by guys who solely like me because I am Asian (exotic, slanted eyes, the Far East whole thing) and I accept that as a part of the "attraction" package that I come in. How is that any different from me being attractive to them because I am trans (something different, uniquness, etc)?
Being trans is a part of that package and I would be delusional to think that it hardly play any role in my "attraction" package to someone.
Quote from: Annah on January 02, 2012, 01:48:08 AM
Because, for me, being transsexual is just a label for society to explain that I was once a man and now I am a woman. I see myself as a female. Transsexual is simply a label in which I identify to a select few to explain the process in which I became a woman. In an ideal society, I honestly believe there would be no need for such labels as labels simply describe something that sets us apart. I, personally, have no desire to be set apart but be part of the "within."
As a result, I have no desire for someone to date me because I am transsexual because, for me, that person will be dating a label in which I am attached to.
I have absolutely nothing against the women who transitioned but want to keep their genitalia so please do not misunderstand but, prior to my surgery, I had no desire for a man (or woman) to want me because I was a woman with a penis. Or a "Transsexual."
Pretty much this.
I haven't had SRS yet. And I don't like my willy, and as such I don't see why I should be liked for having a willy. And when I get SRS, these "->-bleeped-<-s" as they're known will have no further interest.
For me, I shouldn't be proud to be trans, but be proud of being a woman.
Quote from: Nurse With Wound on January 02, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
Pretty much this.
I haven't had SRS yet. And I don't like my willy, and as such I don't see why I should be liked for having a willy. And when I get SRS, these "->-bleeped-<-s" as they're known will have no further interest.
For me, I shouldn't be proud to be trans, but be proud of being a woman.
I already stated that being fetishizsed and chased for your penis is obviously a turn-off. That is very different from men who liked you and you being trans was a part of that deal.
Also, it is really hiding your head in the sand if you say I am proud to be a woman, but not be proud to be trans. Like it or not and for better or worse, both have a marriage for life. You are a woman
and trans.
And is there anything wrong with being proud about who you are, and that includes being trans?
And for the record, it is the out and proud transgender people from the LGBT community that have been lobbying and fighting for our legal rights and protection. Stealth people have done squat for us in terms of obtaining rights and etc because they are not proud nor want people to know.
It is ironic that after some famous transgender people were outed, they ended up becoming public figures and advocates for equal rights.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 02:51:10 AM
But that is paradoxical if you are going to be open about being trans - a man cannot date you without accepting you as trans as a part of the "attractiveness" package.
If he is dating me simply because I am trans...no. I wont date him. If he dates me because he finds me attractive and I find him attractive, I do not tell him I am trans until after he asks me out. This way, i know he isn't wanting to sleep with me because "I am a chick with a dick." I will know he likes me all around rather than some external appendage hanging between my legs.
I don't become open about being trans to a guy I like until he asks me out first. Makes the biggest difference in the world. i separate the wheat from the chaff that way. My BF had no idea I was born male until he asked me out. We've been dating for several months now, and I feel better knowing it wasn't pursing a label. Rather, he was pursuing me.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 01:11:04 AM
This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...
To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -
1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.
It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.
2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".
I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.
Well, there
are good "->-bleeped-<-likers"out there, but the good ones are not the so called ->-bleeped-<-s but the so called Admirers, as they do not care a fluff about what the T-person have or not have between the legs, while the so called ->-bleeped-<-->-bleeped-<-, on the other hand, is only interested in whether the person "has the tools" or not, and if it is "functional". If the ->-bleeped-<- doesn't, then the ->-bleeped-<- runs, no matter how beautiful or great personality She/He has.
Nikki explains it further at 00:43: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8ifY6U7DRxM#t=43s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8ifY6U7DRxM#t=43s)
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 03:54:14 AM
Also, it is really hiding your head in the sand if you say I am proud to be a woman, but not be proud to be trans. Like it or not and for better or worse, both have a marriage for life. You are a woman and trans.
Many trans will disagree with you. I am one of them. I only identify as trans on this website and a very select few public arenas. In "real life" I am seen as a woman and I see myself as a woman. As I said in earlier posts, I am not ashamed of the label "transsexual" or "transgender" but I have come to a point in my life where the label no longer defines me. My birthcertificate, driver's license, passport, and all other paperwork currently says female. I prefer to be identified as female. The label "transsexual" for me is a label for an imperfect society to explain who this woman isn't a "real woman"...there must be a past to her.
Plus transsexual pretty much means a man who transitions to female (and vice versa). Well, I'm done with transitioning so I do not even follow the logic behind it anymore. I am not ashamed of my past but I don't use it as a dating leverage either.
QuoteAnd is there anything wrong with being proud about who you are, and that includes being trans?
nope....but show me a man who wants you as a trans because of your personality rather than the thing between your legs. I haven't met one. Not saying they do not exist, but I am saying the ratio is pretty large between the men who want you for your transsexual personality versus your transsexual physical situation.
QuoteAnd for the record, it is the out and proud transgender people from the LGBT community that have been lobbying and fighting for our legal rights and protection. Stealth people have done squat for us in terms of obtaining rights and etc because they are not proud nor want people to know.
That's also not entirely accurate. I worked alongside Joe at HRC. Hell, I even had martinis with Al Franken and Joe Lieberman at a party last January to push the awareness of transgender rights in America. Just because I want to be seen as a woman does not mean I cower in the shadows of transsexualism.
Here are some pics from that party:
Jennifer Knapp, her partner and I talking to a US Representative about Trans rights
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7165%2F6620987769_75ce30357a.jpg&hash=ae54b42f147e850dd637fc3253508dfc86241ead)
Some of the people who were there that day to sign the HRC flag
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7021%2F6621024173_39e72f5fee.jpg&hash=5e7f4a2bc33ab536d27042bffafeea75e2e3e01b)
A took a pic of those who made the party happen. Joe is in the center:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7156%2F6621027657_5a03fb3edb.jpg&hash=23dee69b83a3f8f7d72aa0efc0434bc8497958f1)
Also me at a trans rally in DC sponsored by the HRC:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7155%2F6621096187_fe3455574e.jpg&hash=9d0c2e1fbd49e81c16691c0ccf0c0ae022bfcedd)
So even tho I do not identify myself as trans everywhere I go or even identify myself as trans to men before they ask me out on a date does not mean I do not go to trans rights and activism issues. I spoke to the national emporium of Seminaries last year in Philadelphia concerning Transsexual Seminarians. So no, I don't hide. I just don't walk around with a neon sign saying "look at me, Im trans" and I certainly don't do it as a guide to pick up and date people either.
I also walked in DC for Ministers against LGBT violence last May.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waynebesen.com%2Fuploaded_images%2FHRC-782091.jpg&hash=e75663613a675a3eec12514cf8cdcff586ae1fbf)
QuoteIt is ironic that after some famous transgender people were outed, they ended up becoming public figures and advocates for equal rights.
I am hardly famous, but for me, I am out in the public to a certain extent and i value my privacy. Also, do not condemn those who had been living stealth. At least they made something good out of the situation they were placed in.
Be careful with your ideas....because there is a such thing as out and proud transsexual elitism who puts down others because they don't do what others do just as there is with stealth tanssexualism elitism.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 01:11:04 AM
This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...
To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -
1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.
It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.
2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".
I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.
its kinda hard to explain, but as I see it its about how the "like is connected" too you and being trans.
nothing wrong with people liking you for being trans as long they also care for you as a person beyond that, we are trans but we are more than just that.
a person who think your cool and also think its fine your trans will just see it as another + in you
a person you dosent care about you unless the fact your trans, will just trew you away pretty easy since you dosent mean anything to them really, and there only interested in that one fact.
---
Does it all have to be so either/or?
For me, transsexualism is just the condition I was born with. I'm no more proud of it than I am of my migraines. On the other hand I am proud that I'm breathing, that I transitioned, that I've made myself into a creature that I can respect through a pretty heroic force of will. So I'm not exactly proud to BE trans, but I'm proud of what I've done with that. I get why someone might be attracted to my history. It's pretty intense.
As to the other... no I'm not out and proud. But all the important people in my life know about my history - my friends, my family, etc. Everyone else... not so much. Honestly, I'd like to be out. But the world we live in... I can't trust people to see me as ME after I tell them, unless they already know me. So that keeps my mouth shut. If things were different... I'm out about being gay, but not about being trans. At least for now. I am still pretty young and newly transitioned, lots of time to change my mind if I want. And it's much harder to go from not-stealth to stealth, than from stealth to not-stealth. So partly I'm just keeping my options open.
1. I was told once by a woman that I only liked her for sex and I replied that in the very least it gives her a leg up on half the people in the world.
2. It could be that not only is this 'adventure/quest/transformation' the MOST interesting thing about you, but also, for a lot of us it's the ONLY interesting thing about us.
3. Being a bear of very little brain it pretty much stops working right at: do they like me? I really don't care about why.
4. I don't date, I just sleep around a lot, so that entire issues misses me.
5. Toasters should come with instruction manuals, people should not. So people that have some sort of 'magic list' of things you can and can not like them for (and often special handling instructions too boot) frequently come back to these threads and say: I wish I had real friends.
recently a guy who I went out with and came out to him said this"
"I have to figure out if I'd want to date you in spite or because of your trans status. I'd rather not do it just out of curiosity for what would it be like to be with someone who is trans".
I really appreciated his honesty and it kind of summons it up for me what kind of a guy I'd like to be with. With some one who is interested in me beyond the trans status, and not because of it.
Quote from: Annah on January 02, 2012, 10:40:13 AM
If he is dating me simply because I am trans...no. I wont date him. If he dates me because he finds me attractive and I find him attractive, I do not tell him I am trans until after he asks me out. This way, i know he isn't wanting to sleep with me because "I am a chick with a dick." I will know he likes me all around rather than some external appendage hanging between my legs.
I don't become open about being trans to a guy I like until he asks me out first. Makes the biggest difference in the world. i separate the wheat from the chaff that way. My BF had no idea I was born male until he asked me out. We've been dating for several months now, and I feel better knowing it wasn't pursing a label. Rather, he was pursuing me.
I agree entirely. To suggest that the only reactions are fetishization, repulsion, and pretend-it-didn't-happen is false.
To put it shortly, I am trans, but I am far more than that. I consider my transness a fundamentally positive
part of what makes me me. What I'd love is for the people I love to think of it the same way. What I don't want is for my transness to eclipse my entire being. That's what all three of those false choices have in common. I am nothing but "trans" to them; the only difference is in what they do about it. Everything else that makes me who I am is meaningless to them.
I wouldn't go out with somebody who liked me just because I was trans, no more I would go out with somebody who liked me just because I had a big nose, or that I was white, or slim. I don't mind if that was one of the reasons, but I'd rather it be down to several reasons, mostly based around my character. He should like me whether I'm trans or not - being trans shouldn't be the turning point over whether he likes me or stops liking me.
Quote from: Bishounen on January 02, 2012, 10:58:04 AM
Well, there are good "->-bleeped-<-likers"out there, but the good ones are not the so called ->-bleeped-<-s but the so called Admirers, as they do not care a fluff about what the T-person have or not have between the legs, while the so called ->-bleeped-<-->-bleeped-<-, on the other hand, is only interested in whether the person "has the tools" or not, and if it is "functional". If the ->-bleeped-<- doesn't, then the ->-bleeped-<- runs, no matter how beautiful or great personality She/He has.
Nikki explains it further at 00:43: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8ifY6U7DRxM#t=43s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8ifY6U7DRxM#t=43s)
I am deaf and the voice recognition closed captioning software still sucks - so that video is inaccessible to me. You'll have to write what she says for me. :)
Quote from: Annah on January 02, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
Many trans will disagree with you. I am one of them. I only identify as trans on this website and a very select few public arenas. In "real life" I am seen as a woman and I see myself as a woman. As I said in earlier posts, I am not ashamed of the label "transsexual" or "transgender" but I have come to a point in my life where the label no longer defines me. My birthcertificate, driver's license, passport, and all other paperwork currently says female. I prefer to be identified as female. The label "transsexual" for me is a label for an imperfect society to explain who this woman isn't a "real woman"...there must be a past to her.
Perhaps - but it is our cross to bear to carry with us for the rest of our lives. We can decide which we are first, woman or trans, but we achieved the right to call ourselves women by becoming trans. without becoming trans, we would have not been able to do so
nope....but show me a man who wants you as a trans because of your personality rather than the thing between your legs. I haven't met one. Not saying they do not exist, but I am saying the ratio is pretty large between the men who want you for your transsexual personality versus your transsexual physical situation.
I have met men who liked me becaue of my trans aspect - like they said, they are impressed and amazed at the courage it takes to transition and that makes me a stronger person and they liiked that.
Be careful with your ideas....because there is a such thing as out and proud transsexual elitism who puts down others because they don't do what others do just as there is with stealth tanssexualism elitism.
True, there may be slealth people who worked for us behind the scenes and we will never know, and since they chose to go sleath, we cannot very well give them any credit for it. * shrugs * the out and proud ones, on the other hand, receive all the credit because they are on the front lines receiving the bullets for us. It is how it is.
Oh and good job on being an activist! :) ever since I came out at my workplace, I ve been thrust in the role of being an advocate and activist - albeit a reluctant one as I hate being in the spotlight heh
Quote from: Sarah7 on January 02, 2012, 11:34:04 AM
Does it all have to be so either/or?
For me, transsexualism is just the condition I was born with. I'm no more proud of it than I am of my migraines. On the other hand I am proud that I'm breathing, that I transitioned, that I've made myself into a creature that I can respect through a pretty heroic force of will. So I'm not exactly proud to BE trans, but I'm proud of what I've done with that. I get why someone might be attracted to my history. It's pretty intense.
As to the other... no I'm not out and proud. But all the important people in my life know about my history - my friends, my family, etc. Everyone else... not so much. Honestly, I'd like to be out. But the world we live in... I can't trust people to see me as ME after I tell them, unless they already know me. So that keeps my mouth shut. If things were different... I'm out about being gay, but not about being trans. At least for now. I am still pretty young and newly transitioned, lots of time to change my mind if I want. And it's much harder to go from not-stealth to stealth, than from stealth to not-stealth. So partly I'm just keeping my options open.
I respect people's decisions to go slealth or not - i just am happy that i am able to be out and open about it... so that it doesnt bother me if people like me because I am trans. It is a rarity to meet trans people, so I understand and accept that I m probably going to be a novelty for the rest of my life.
I suppose... that being involved in the LGBT community previously as a gay man and now as a trans woman pretty much sealed the question of going sleath or not for me as I already had support and resources right there and people around me (who I care to associate with) are of open minded ilk.
Quote from: tekla on January 02, 2012, 11:48:24 AM
4. I don't date, I just sleep around a lot, so that entire issues misses me.
Sounds pretty much like me right now - except I date
and sleep around a lot ;D
The video doesn't say any more than what had been summarized by Bishounen.
She just goes on about participating in American Idol and being disrespected by Joan Osbourne and than she is a part of a house of something that I am not familiar with.
That's it really.
Quote from: envie on January 02, 2012, 12:49:23 PM
recently a guy who I went out with and came out to him said this"
"I have to figure out if I'd want to date you in spite or because of your trans status. I'd rather not do it just out of curiosity for what would it be like to be with someone who is trans".
I really appreciated his honesty and it kind of summons it up for me what kind of a guy I'd like to be with. With some one who is interested in me beyond the trans status, and not because of it.
Ive had guys who were attracted to me
initally because I was trans but then got to know me beyond that and they still liked me. So that is one reason I don't see any big problem with the trans aspect being the first thing they like about you because it can lead to getting to know you more.
Again, I reiterate - it is just the same as someone being attracted to me initially because I am Asian then he gets to know me more beyond my race and skin color. It is no different.
Quote from: Assoluta on January 02, 2012, 01:14:33 PM
I wouldn't go out with somebody who liked me just because I was trans, no more I would go out with somebody who liked me just because I had a big nose, or that I was white, or slim. I don't mind if that was one of the reasons, but I'd rather it be down to several reasons, mostly based around my character. He should like me whether I'm trans or not - being trans shouldn't be the turning point over whether he likes me or stops liking me.
oh please, have you ever heard of the white guy/asian chick phenomenon (in America, that is)?? I am an Asian chick and I have an overwhelming lust and attraction for white guys and I would go out with someone who was average and white rather than a guy who was hot and black
just because he was white.
You girls, we already face so much discrimination, violence, and hatred - let's not make things any harder on ourselves by spitting on people who like us for being trans or getting all hissy/fussy because our trans statuses came into the pictures.
Let's show all of the people who are in our corners, including ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s, yes, some love and applause! :eusa_clap:
as long as they were trans i wouldn't have a problem :-*
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 03:55:46 PM
You girls, we already face so much discrimination, violence, and hatred - let's not make things any harder on ourselves by spitting on people who like us for being trans or getting all hissy/fussy because our trans statuses came into the pictures.
Let's show all of the people who are in our corners, including ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s, yes, some love and applause! :eusa_clap:
:icon_no:
I don't know what else to say really. If you are happy announcing to the world that you are trans, that's great, really. But I'm not. I will admit to being trans, but I will not flaunt it. I will not use it or allow it to be used as leverage in a relationship.
I am proud to be transitioning and becoming who I am, but once that is done, for me personally, my "trans" status will become obsolete. I'll be more interested in simply living my life as a woman, blending in with society while still occasionally advocating equal rights for the LGBT community. It seems we fight so hard through transition and our own lives, meanwhile helping those along the way that we can also, that once we finally reach the point of completion...we'd be exhausted; "trans" anything in some ways would seem to become an old broken record. I will always support the LGBT community, but I also want a personal life outside the transgender realm. I don't feel this is selfish in any way, I feel it is earned.
I've despised people who exclusively only date Asians or Black. I have a family member who'd date only black guys and if you ask me that is a form of racism as well.
No different from dating exclusively Trans-women.
What if you had breast cancer and a guy comes along who loves the fact that you had double mastectomy?
Or if you were born without legs and a guy is being curious about dating someone in the wheelchair?
Creepy I say!!!
Quote from: Amazon D on January 02, 2012, 03:57:03 PM
as long as they were trans i wouldn't have a problem :-*
oh you are into other trans people only?
Quote from: envie on January 02, 2012, 04:34:05 PM
I've despised people who exclusively only date Asians or Black. I have a family member who'd date only black guys and if you ask me that is a form of racism as well.
No different from dating exclusively Trans-women.
What if you had breast cancer and a guy comes along who loves the fact that you had double mastectomy?
Or if you were born without legs and a guy is being curious about dating someone in the wheelchair?
Creepy I say!!!
I don't think wanting to date someone becaues they are a certain race is racist. Attraction and friendship are two different things.
Lots of deaf people want to date other deaf people and even seek them out so. Does it mean it is audist? Nahh...
Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 02, 2012, 04:24:04 PM
:icon_no:
I don't know what else to say really. If you are happy announcing to the world that you are trans, that's great, really. But I'm not. I will admit to being trans, but I will not flaunt it. I will not use it or allow it to be used as leverage in a relationship.
I am proud to be transitioning and becoming who I am, but once that is done, for me personally, my "trans" status will become obsolete. I'll be more interested in simply living my life as a woman, blending in with society while still occasionally advocating equal rights for the LGBT community. It seems we fight so hard through transition and our own lives, meanwhile helping those along the way that we can also, that once we finally reach the point of completion...we'd be exhausted; "trans" anything in some ways would seem to become an old broken record. I will always support the LGBT community, but I also want a personal life outside the transgender realm. I don't feel this is selfish in any way, I feel it is earned.
I think you got me figured all wrong - I am not the "in your face" trans woman type. I am just honest about it and willing to put my money where my mouth is by getting involved with transgender activism (albeit reluctantly). I pretty much lead my life daily just as a normal woman but my trans aspect is always there and part of me. To pretend otherwise is to wilfully ignore the reality of my situation and the cross I have to bear.
Maybe to clarify - for me, I am trans
first, a woman
second. Without having became transgender, I would have not claimed the right to call myself a woman. My license says F , not T, but I am not kidding myself. The doctors and government enabled the switch from M to F because of my trans status, not because I just marched up to them and said, "I am a woman! Change it now!" And you know the transitioning process takes a lot of money, energy, etc, etc.
To me it is a compliment, recognition of my sufferings, tears, laughter, and journey when someone likes me because I am trans. He knows how hard the path was for me.
Progress cannot be made without visibility; it is okay if some of you prefer to stay in the background and behind the scenes.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
I think you got me figured all wrong - I am not the "in your face" trans woman type. I am just honest about it and willing to put my money where my mouth is by getting involved with transgender activism (albeit reluctantly). I pretty much lead my life daily just as a normal woman but my trans aspect is always there and part of me. To pretend otherwise is to wilfully ignore the reality of my situation and the cross I have to bear.
Maybe to clarify - for me, I am trans first, a woman second. Without having became transgender, I would have not claimed the right to call myself a woman. My license says F , not T, but I am not kidding myself. The doctors and government enabled the switch from M to F because of my trans status, not because I just marched up to them and said, "I am a woman! Change it now!" And you know the transitioning process takes a lot of money, energy, etc, etc.
To me it is a compliment, recognition of my sufferings, tears, laughter, and journey when someone likes me because I am trans. He knows how hard the path was for me.
Progress cannot be made without visibility; it is okay if some of you prefer to stay in the background and behind the scenes.
Perhaps I did have you figured wrong, and I apologize. Your views are valid and understandable, no doubt. But I suppose it's for neither of us to say really, as it's a feeling reserved for those who have finished transitioning; but my assumption is that perhaps in time, living as a woman full-time, no longer transitioning and having nearly completely suppressed all things male, being trans sort of fades to the subconscious and being a woman becomes the more conscious self-identification. I only say this because I've heard others say that they "forgot" they were trans. Though that's certainly a bit of an exaggeration I feel, the relative point remains.
Just an FYI, though - saying you wouldn't have the right to call yourself a woman without being trans is a bit confusing; for if you were not trans, I cannot see why you'd want to call yourself a woman ???
Nonetheless, I find you to be a remarkable person for your outlook and logic. It is admirable.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 04:46:37 PM
I don't think wanting to date someone becaues they are a certain race is racist. Attraction and friendship are two different things.
Lots of deaf people want to date other deaf people and even seek them out so. Does it mean it is audist? Nahh...
Deaf people may want to date deaf people because they have one thing in common which is being deaf. May be they are concerned about the communication as not that many people who hear know the ESL.
I've had long term relationship with a person who happened to be Asian but she was a musician as I am. I wanted to date a woman whose life experience crossed coincidentally with mine who happened to be black.
I'd like for someone to date me because we have some commonalities and I just happen to be trans. Or even if my trans status had given me some interesting character as I've lived my life in both genders that would be fine. But for someone who clocks me and goes after me because of that! NO!
I do think that preferring one race over the other is a form of racism even if its only in dating.
Kia Ora,
::) Umm so just to clarify things re the '->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s' The correct definition of the term ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-'[Well according to the 'Zendapedia' that is] : A ->-bleeped-<- '->-bleeped-<-' is NOT a 'fanny' ->-bleeped-<-, for if they like fannies they would NOT be into ->-bleeped-<-s -'without' fannies....[Fanny= In this case does 'not' refer to the North American term for buttocks - But a British term for the female vulva ]...* On second thoughts, for the North American definition I guess a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<- 'IS' a fanny ->-bleeped-<--if you get my drift * ;)
::) But on a more serious note....Who knows what really goes on in the minds of the potential partner of a woman use used to live as a man [Or the man who used to live as a woman !] Whatever turn one on I say ![So long as they are not intentionally harming anybody !-* Sadomasochism* being the exception ;) ;D]
::) After all how many people 'really' say what's on their mind 'all of the time'? Just imagine if we all did, what would our world be like ?
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: envie on January 02, 2012, 05:08:46 PM
Deaf people may want to date deaf people because they have one thing in common which is being deaf. May be they are concerned about the communication as not that many people who hear know the ESL.
I've had long term relationship with a person who happened to be Asian but she was a musician as I am. I wanted to date a woman whose life experience crossed coincidentally with mine who happened to be black.
I'd like for someone to date me because we have some commonalities and I just happen to be trans. Or even if my trans status had given me some interesting character as I've lived my life in both genders that would be fine. But for someone who clocks me and goes after me because of that! NO!
I do think that preferring one race over the other is a form of racism even if its only in dating.
ESL? Don't you mean ASL, as in American Sign Language? ;D
There is this transgender club called Divas in San Francisco - I go there once or twice a month to "be around my sistas"... and to flirt with admirers and ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s there.
I don't find it insulting or narrow that they are there because they liked trans women. It is ironic, really. The shoe is on the other foot - mine, so to speak.
Instead of focusing on the fact that they liked me because I was trans, I had to get beyond that and get to know them more. Ironic, isnt it?
There are black clubs, Latino clubs, etc. People who flock there are either the corresponding color or people who lust after or admire them. There is nothing inherently racist in it just as there is nothing inherently wrong with the men who goes to transgender clubs.
Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 02, 2012, 05:04:25 PM
Perhaps I did have you figured wrong, and I apologize. Your views are valid and understandable, no doubt. But I suppose it's for neither of us to say really, as it's a feeling reserved for those who have finished transitioning; but my assumption is that perhaps in time, living as a woman full-time, no longer transitioning and having nearly completely suppressed all things male, being trans sort of fades to the subconscious and being a woman becomes the more conscious self-identification. I only say this because I've heard others say that they "forgot" they were trans. Though that's certainly a bit of an exaggeration I feel, the relative point remains.
Nonetheless, I find you to be a remarkable person for your outlook and logic. It is admirable.
Thank you :)
... yes, I ve heard of such things that people forgetting that they were trans once they had completed SRS and whatnot until something reminds them like running into an old acquintance, a letter arriving with the previous male name, etc and they get a harsh jolt of reality and it is back to Earth for few days.
Even if I get SRS, I don't want to go through that - going on around my life pretending/forgetting it is all over and I don't have to deal with it ever again then get a harsh jolt back to Earth. Impossible. lol. You will always get a reminder again and again throughout your life of your trans status, even post-op.
It is nice to think of SRS as a fairy tale ending and happily-ever-after and that "trans" can be eliminated from our lives and subconsciousness forever, but it is a heavy cross we will have hanging around our necks and bear til our deaths. We may hide them underneath our blouses but they are still there.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 03:53:42 PM
oh please, have you ever heard of the white guy/asian chick phenomenon (in America, that is)?? I am an Asian chick and I have an overwhelming lust and attraction for white guys and I would go out with someone who was average and white rather than a guy who was hot and black just because he was white.
I too would prefer an average looking asian dude to a hot white guy, but it wouldn't be just because he was Asian. Sure, he might initially pique my interest and I might go out with him a couple of times if he looked nice, but I doubt it would go beyond that if there was nothing more to it than that - and this is my truth.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 05:31:43 PM
Thank you :)
... yes, I ve heard of such things that people forgetting that they were trans once they had completed SRS and whatnot until something reminds them like running into an old acquintance, a letter arriving with the previous male name, etc and they get a harsh jolt of reality and it is back to Earth for few days.
Even if I get SRS, I don't want to go through that - going on around my life pretending/forgetting it is all over and I don't have to deal with it ever again then get a harsh jolt back to Earth. Impossible. lol. You will always get a reminder again and again throughout your life of your trans status, even post-op.
It is nice to think of SRS as a fairy tale ending and happily-ever-after and that "trans" can be eliminated from our lives and subconsciousness forever, but it is a heavy cross we will have hanging around our necks and bear til our deaths. We may hide them underneath our blouses but they are still there.
I agree that ignoring our pasts is doing ourselves a great disservice, but it doesn't have to be a "heavy cross" around my neck. I am me, I don't need to let being trans dominate my life, it is simply part of my history. I don't need to hide it - I just go about my life being me and if it is somehow revealed or it slips out, then fine, it doesn't change anything, or at least it shouldn't in meaningful friendships and relationships. I used to see being trans as a 'secret' particularly when I was pre-op, but after so long, I feel so normalised to the whole matter and I feel that there is no longer a past to hide, I am just me who happens to have a certain past.
I think what trans girls find so upsetting is that ->-bleeped-<-s fetishize them as "girls with dicks." Dicks of course being something that causes many trans girls a great deal of dysphoria. It's this idea of being seen as more desirable because you have male parts. Not because of who you are as a person, or because of the attributes you find important.
They can like me for being trans, most of the time I like them for not being hideous looking.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 05:23:34 PM
ESL? Don't you mean ASL, as in American Sign Language? ;D
There are actually way more types of sign language than just ASL. Not everyone is American and it's only called that because that particular type of sign language formed in America and is actually a combination of different sign systems, one of which is French. :) But ESL actually stands for English as a Second Language and doesn't have anything to do with sign language. I'm assuming what envie means is actually something called SEE (signed exact english) that is a method of signing using straight up words, one sign for every word and special signs to add endings to words. ASL is more a language of it's own with it's own grammar and syntax. OT but it's pretty interesting.
It's better than being liked because you are an amputee. That i would not like
A little off topic, but I would prefer to have a ->-bleeped-<- on the site who is polite and follows the rules over a transgender person who isn't polite and doesn't follow the rules. JMO, hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn on January 03, 2012, 03:06:52 PM
A little off topic, but I would prefer to have a ->-bleeped-<- on the site who is polite and follows the rules over a transgender person who isn't polite and doesn't follow the rules. JMO, hugs, Devlyn
I think that having ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and men in here would make the site far more dynamic. There could be parts where they can enter and parts they can't. It should be a rule though that this is not to be used as a pick up site. The input of non-trans people would create a more rounded interaction.
Quote from: Andy8715 on January 03, 2012, 02:19:38 PM
There are actually way more types of sign language than just ASL. Not everyone is American and it's only called that because that particular type of sign language formed in America and is actually a combination of different sign systems, one of which is French. :) But ESL actually stands for English as a Second Language and doesn't have anything to do with sign language. I'm assuming what envie means is actually something called SEE (signed exact english) that is a method of signing using straight up words, one sign for every word and special signs to add endings to words. ASL is more a language of it's own with it's own grammar and syntax. OT but it's pretty interesting.
I meant to say ASL but I typed it wrong. Thanks for sharing the SEE with us, I wasn't aware of it as a short cut although I knew that this is another way of signing.
Quote from: Andy8715 on January 03, 2012, 02:19:38 PM
There are actually way more types of sign language than just ASL. Not everyone is American and it's only called that because that particular type of sign language formed in America and is actually a combination of different sign systems, one of which is French. :) But ESL actually stands for English as a Second Language and doesn't have anything to do with sign language. I'm assum- ing what envie means is actually something called SEE (signed exact english) that is a method of signing using straight up words, one sign for every word and special signs to add endings to words. ASL is more a language of it's own with it's own grammar and syntax. OT but it's pretty interesting.
I knew that already, having grown up in a deaf community, but thanks for educating others.
One minor correction - ASL is not just
more a language- it is
a language. ;)
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 01:11:04 AM
This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...
To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -
1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.
It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.
2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".
I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.
a lot of ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s dont want a relationship with a transwoman, they want to use us for sex and dump us if we even think about srs.
....what is the big deal if people like you because you are "trans
It depends on what you are looking for. If you're into being someones blow up doll "with something extra",
for three minutes, after which, having their "bi-curiousity" and primal urges sated, they treat you like a loaded diaper
and quickly excuse themselves to wallow in their own self loathing, then knock yourself out.
As for myself, for four decades I struggled with being born with the wrong primary sexual characteristics.
At the age of seven, I did not sob across kitchen table from my Mama ,"I should have been born a ->-bleeped-<-".
The last thing that I want, is to be reminded by a suitor that I was born with a penis.
I've been thinking about this topic sort of. I'm hoping I can express my thoughts without offending anyone or coming off sounding horrible.
I'm very conflicted on if I want to attempt transition or just try to cope with it and stay "normal". One of the things that has crossed my mind is that if I end up sticking with being outwardly a straight male like everyone expects of me, then with my new knowledge of transwomen how my views have changed on dating them.
Here is the part I hope doesn't sound off. In a way I would almost prefer it now, but not for any sexual reason, honestly that would be something I'd probably still have to get past due to how I was raised and all. And it's not out of pity or anything though it may come off as such. To me though with everything I've seen and how much transwomen have to go through in relationships, I just feel that they might appreciate the nice things a guy does for them whereas my experience with (i hope i get this right) ciswomen, has shown most even nice ones take nice things for granted because usually they expect you to do it like it's your job or something.
I just think that a transwoman would be far more real with a guy that respects them and would see him for what he is, instead of what they expect out of him. I hope I explained it right, like I said it's just something I've thought of while debating all of my feelings on all this. I would just hate to be seen as a "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-" or anything like that, though it seems as I learn more about terms that it is a bit different than what I first thought the term meant.
Again sorry if this sounded bad, I worry too much about that I know. Just wanted to give my thoughts on the topic.
The big deal about someone liking me for being trans is pretty simple.
It might imply a couple of different things... for example, a guy might find the idea that I might have a penis to be hot. This is an assumption - when I start looking for romance, I won't have a penis, so a guy that's attracted to me for being trans would be attracted to me for something that I actually don't have.
Or perhaps he finds my past erotic. Maybe he likes the idea of sleeping with an "ex-man". This makes me uncomfortable; I don't want that part of me to play a huge role in my relations with other people. It's a great part of me that helped make me who I am, but to find the quality of being an "ex-man" sexy seems unsettling or creepy to me on a mere emotional level.
Often, ->-bleeped-<--->-bleeped-<-s see trans women as objects. I'm not an object, and would never settle to be in a relationship where I was.
I don't mind some aspects of liking my trans history though. If a man finds me more attractive because of my ability to handle difficult circumstances well, then that's great. If he likes me because being trans provides me with more insight than most people have, then that's wonderful.
I don't want my trans quality to be linked to sex - if being trans is attractive, I would want it to be so in a positive, empowering way.
Quote from: heatherrose on January 03, 2012, 09:41:30 PM
....what is the big deal if people like you because you are "trans
It depends on what you are looking for. If you're into being someones blow up doll "with something extra",
for three minutes, after which, having their "bi-curiousity" and primal urges sated, they treat you like a loaded diaper
and quickly excuse themselves to wallow in their own self loathing, then knock yourself out.
As for myself, for four decades I struggled with being born with the wrong primary sexual characteristics.
At the age of seven, I did not sob across kitchen table from my Mama ,"I should have been born a ->-bleeped-<-".
The last thing that I want, is to be reminded by a suitor that I was born with a penis.
It has nothing to do with genitals. Many different factors influence a mans decision to stay with a transgender women and often times, her genital status means nothing.
I think its more of the fact that you were socialized/presenting as a male growing up. That is really what freaks a lot of men out. Sure, I get a ton of dates... But how many men will like me after the "big" reveal? Men want to be seen in public with me, etc. I can't deny that I played up the "flaming campy gay" stereotype once in my life and it's ironic that the men who called me a "->-bleeped-<-got" before, now fawn over me.
But it takes an open minded straight men to be with a transgender woman in a long term relationship. But i don't care either way...I like my men gay and bi. I don't expect straight people to accommodate me into their society. I think it's because I partially realize I am still a gay male...just the appearance has changed and nothing can magically erase my past, even if I started hormones at 11. LOL
But it feels great to be accepted. But even I am skeptical.
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 04, 2012, 08:06:49 AM
The big deal about someone liking me for being trans is pretty simple.
It might imply a couple of different things... for example, a guy might find the idea that I might have a penis to be hot. This is an assumption - when I start looking for romance, I won't have a penis, so a guy that's attracted to me for being trans would be attracted to me for something that I actually don't have.
Or perhaps he finds my past erotic. Maybe he likes the idea of sleeping with an "ex-man". This makes me uncomfortable; I don't want that part of me to play a huge role in my relations with other people. It's a great part of me that helped make me who I am, but to find the quality of being an "ex-man" sexy seems unsettling or creepy to me on a mere emotional level.
Often, ->-bleeped-<--->-bleeped-<-s see trans women as objects. I'm not an object, and would never settle to be in a relationship where I was.
I don't mind some aspects of liking my trans history though. If a man finds me more attractive because of my ability to handle difficult circumstances well, then that's great. If he likes me because being trans provides me with more insight than most people have, then that's wonderful.
I don't want my trans quality to be linked to sex - if being trans is attractive, I would want it to be so in a positive, empowering way.
You pretty much summed up every guy I've ever met who knew I was trans and was into me.
The only guys I would date would have to be openly bisexual. I couldn't take the whole "I'm straight but I like penis as long as it's on a girl" thing that ->-bleeped-<-s have going on. It just seems like they're in denial (let's be serious, they are). It sucks because I get along so well with guys, I just can't seem to find any worth dating. :-\
WEll, i like the penis if come whit a girl ..i like the vagina if come whit a girl too... but i truly know that i dont like men...i try by whit some and ..nop.. is not mine thing...i just feel so much disgusting that shape...and that way to move...and his face hair.... :/
But...usually i just say "i am bisexual" to avoid all the "deep analisys about what mean be a woman"
But..i will give you a tip...some men would love to be topped by a cisg woman... but that is so..so hard to got...so..is not so strange that they end wanting be whit a ->-bleeped-<-.
The othe r reason, the "ex- man" role ... well, yes, that can be hard to manage... sometimes i use that as a erotic resource while had sex whit my girl friend...but other times i just mentalice what i am and she is jsut woman...whitout penises xD. But in the day to day relation, she is only a woman for me, when we are i a date, or having time whit friends or whit my family..goind to see a movie at the cinema..or anithing else...we are only girls and...well...man/ andro /woman / whatever i am :P.
You must see if that "role erotic game" is only part of a sex game and the relation is not affected..or if the man only want to release her laod whit that game and after that spit you in the face or hide under a stone if see you in the street.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjLbch.jpg&hash=7032af72a1d6307ccef018340afbbd07dcecdb94) (http://imgur.com/jLbch)
This must be one of my more male mode phothos in this last year.. *sighs* but well, the point is show my GF :)
Quote from: Hannah on January 05, 2012, 01:27:34 PM
I couldn't take the whole "I'm straight but I like penis as long as it's on a girl" thing that ->-bleeped-<-s have going on. It just seems like they're in denial (let's be serious, they are).
What am I in denial about?
Quote from: Hannah on January 05, 2012, 01:27:34 PM
You pretty much summed up every guy I've ever met who knew I was trans and was into me.
The only guys I would date would have to be openly bisexual. I couldn't take the whole "I'm straight but I like penis as long as it's on a girl" thing that ->-bleeped-<-s have going on. It just seems like they're in denial (let's be serious, they are). It sucks because I get along so well with guys, I just can't seem to find any worth dating. :-\
I mean I think the guys are straight to a certain degree especially if they "didn't know she was trans" LOL. My b/f loves to play with my penis anyways...he's about as straight as they cum. LOL
But if I have sex with some lezbian...doesn't that make me a lez? Hell no.
Quote from: Lily on January 05, 2012, 10:01:07 PM
What am I in denial about?
If you mean what ->-bleeped-<-s are in denial about, I'm willing to bet the majority of them are closeted gays. What motives would a regular straight guy have to want to date/bang a transgirl? Straight guys are straight because they like vaginas, I can't honestly say that a straight guy who likes penis is straight, regardless of who it belongs to.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 05, 2012, 10:04:28 PM
I mean I think the guys are straight to a certain degree especially if they "didn't know she was trans" LOL. My b/f loves to play with my penis anyways...he's about as straight as they cum. LOL
It's a lot different if a guy is attracted to you and you hit it off prior to him knowing. I was more referring to the guys who specifically seek out transgirls. I originally went with ->-bleeped-<-s to avoid having to tell a straight guy after dating for a while that I'm trans, but I'm starting to think that just dating straight guys and coming out later would work out better than trying to deal with ->-bleeped-<-s.
Luckily in my case I'm bi, so dating women is always an option.
Kia Ora,
::) I guess for some trans-women, as the saying goes "Beggars can't be choosers!" In other words if one is desperate to prove their 'womanliness' :icon_joy: [which for some is measured by the amount of male attention they receive], then a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-, a ->-bleeped-<- admirer, a MR straight [comfortable in their own skin] guy will do... [more or less anything in trousers that resembles a male]... OK I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here :P, but there is an element of truth to it-there always is !
::) But in the long run whatever rocks ones boat, just so long as one finds happiness and in doing so does not harm others !
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Hannah on January 06, 2012, 12:10:26 AM
Luckily in my case I'm bi, so dating women is always an option.
I've never had a serious relationship with a woman. I certainly have the power to do so now...
But as for men... I certainly dated a lot of the men in the past year who persued me because they thought I was a natural girl and I am glad to be rejected because they learned I wasn't one.
I give my ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<- friends a boner once in awhile...But I am far from a fetish object.
Quote from: Hannah on January 06, 2012, 12:10:26 AM
If you mean what ->-bleeped-<-s are in denial about, I'm willing to bet the majority of them are closeted gays. What motives would a regular straight guy have to want to date/bang a transgirl? Straight guys are straight because they like vaginas, I can't honestly say that a straight guy who likes penis is straight, regardless of who it belongs to.
No, I am asking about myself.
I like transgirls. Am I secretly straight because I'm not grossed out by penises?
i found so contradictory or at least ironic when a trans woman say " a man that like a penis no matter what is attached to it" is gay and like men, while at same time postulate "i am a woman no matter if i have cock, have a cock not mean by a man"
but well, i know that all this issue is to muh coplex and hard to explain some times
Quote from: Emi on January 06, 2012, 12:28:32 AM
i found so contradictory or at least ironic when a trans woman say " a man that like a penis no matter what is attached to it" is gay and like men, while at same time postulate "i am a woman no matter if i have cock, have a cock not mean by a man"
but well, i know that all this issue is to muh coplex and hard to explain some times
??? I never claim to be a woman. I present myself how I feel comfortable, and I'm open about who I am to pretty much everyone. Their opinions are theirs.
EDIT: I guess that was kind of vague. It basically comes down to being someones fetish. I like people who like me for who I am, meaning the total package (no pun intended). I don't have any problems with bi guys and girls, most of the ones I've met can get over me being trans and date me for being me. But being used by some guy who can't deal with his sexuality? No thanks. (which answers the original question as to why it's a problem that people like me because I'm trans).
Well, i will not be whit a trans woman only because she have a penis...but i can enjoy a penis as i enjoy a vagina...but i really feel a bit upset when someone say me "you like men jut because you like penis" when actually i dont like men..and i am the first to admitt..that i try xD
I dont care if i got the "bisexual" label...is ok and i can live whit that...but yes start to bother me when people thoug that i will be interested in see that "hot guy" or anithign like that while i am only interest in people whit boobs, and clock shape, and cute / femme faces ... no matters if have penis or vagina.
But i can understand your point too. Jut be a fetish is not nice...but is hard notice and separete who see you as a fetish and who just have "like you more because you are.."
For example....you can got a fetish for fat people...or you can just feel more atracted for fat people because you find they more beuty...botsh can be confused one whit the other..but are far different things...
The same is true whit Transexual people..as far a transexuality is just another human condition or feature like be blonde, blind, white, fat, diabetic, intersex, etc etc etc
This video may be very educational for people like Hannah: The eroticization of M2F transsexuals by straight men (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v79_9x7JlQ&list=LLTREaQFc3UsNor5ETLY6Tpw&index=1&feature=plpp_video#)
While Nina takes a fetish-type approach to explaining the attraction, which I don't believe applies in every case, she illustrates remarkably well why men who like transsexuals are not actually "closeted gays." Orientation/attraction is way more dependent on overall gender presentation rather than strictly genitalia that you only see in bed anyway.
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on January 06, 2012, 06:03:46 AM
This video may be very educational for people like Hannah: The eroticization of M2F transsexuals by straight men (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v79_9x7JlQ&list=LLTREaQFc3UsNor5ETLY6Tpw&index=1&feature=plpp_video#)
While Nina takes a fetish-type approach to explaining the attraction, which I don't believe applies in every case, she illustrates remarkably well why men who like transsexuals are not actually "closeted gays." Orientation/attraction is way more dependent on overall gender presentation rather than strictly genitalia that you only see in bed anyway.
Exactly. When I was pre-op, some people suggested that I could have a relationship with a gay man, to which I replied "Excuse me!?" as attraction to men is far more than attraction to the penis alone - it's the whole, ahem, "package"...
Nina is awesome. <3
Regarding what Nina said, I suddenly came to wonder how it comes that there truly are no "out" ->-bleeped-<-lovers?
I mean, there are proud and out gays, proud and out bisexuals, proud and out transgenders, ->-bleeped-<-s, transsexuals and a row of other varianted people, but no out and proud ->-bleeped-<-lovers.
This is something I have actually often found very hard to digest about them, as so many of them views transpeople as a "dirty secret".
But what is so bad about liking ->-bleeped-<-s, exactly? I mean, they are really just a combination of males and females or some other version of those, so what is so shameful about it?
I mean, you cannot say that; "Oh but it's so against the norm" or; "It's because it is so controversial", because it is not, and especially not in these days.
So why is it, exactly? ???
Quote from: Bishounen on January 06, 2012, 11:08:00 AM
Regarding what Nina said, I suddenly came to wonder how it comes that there truly are no "out" ->-bleeped-<-lovers?
I mean, there are proud and out gays, proud and out bisexuals, proud and out transgenders, ->-bleeped-<-s, transsexuals and a row of other varianted people, but no out and proud ->-bleeped-<-lovers.
This is something I have actually often found very hard to digest about them, as so many of them views transpeople as a "dirty secret".
But what is so bad about liking ->-bleeped-<-s, exactly? I mean, they are really just a combination of males and females or some other version of those, so what is so shameful about it?
I mean, you cannot say that; "Oh but it's so against the norm" or; "It's because it is so controversial", because it is not, and especially not in these days.
So why is it, exactly? ???
This is something I was going to mention but totally forgot.
Most guys wouldn't be ashamed to show their girlfriend to friends and family if she was blond, brunette, fat, skinny, tall, short, black, white, etc. In this regard, being trans is nothing at all like being blond or fat.
Quote from: Bishounen on January 06, 2012, 11:08:00 AM
Regarding what Nina said, I suddenly came to wonder how it comes that there truly are no "out" ->-bleeped-<-lovers?
I mean, there are proud and out gays, proud and out bisexuals, proud and out transgenders, ->-bleeped-<-s, transsexuals and a row of other varianted people, but no out and proud ->-bleeped-<-lovers.
This is something I have actually often found very hard to digest about them, as so many of them views transpeople as a "dirty secret".
But what is so bad about liking ->-bleeped-<-s, exactly? I mean, they are really just a combination of males and females or some other version of those, so what is so shameful about it?
I mean, you cannot say that; "Oh but it's so against the norm" or; "It's because it is so controversial", because it is not, and especially not in these days.
So why is it, exactly? ???
How do you explain that the woman your dating is trans to your family? People just don't get it.
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 12:53:54 PM
How do you explain that the woman your dating is trans to your family? People just don't get it.
Yeah... the man will have to cope with statements like "are you gay???"
Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 06, 2012, 12:53:54 PM
How do you explain that the woman your dating is trans to your family? People just don't get it.
That she is trans, perhaps? Or that she was born a male?
Or as Nikki Exxotika's fully straight boyfriend bluntly worded it when he and Nikki would reveal her status for his unknowing brother;
QuoteShe was born a dude, man :laugh:"- "Could you imagine? Isn't she like the hottest chick on the planet? ;D
(Really wish I could post that clip here, by the way, but she pulled it :P).
Anyway, what is there that is so special about it to fuss about?
That is another thing, by the way, that the
family of someone dating a transgendered person, is actually very often fully accepting about it.
Which is just another reason for why it is so strange that ->-bleeped-<-lovers often sees it as such a big deal. For it is usually the ->-bleeped-<-->-bleeped-<-s that have those issues, not the average bi or straight guy that all of the sudden happen to fall for a transsexual out of the blue, for those ones usually have no problem being open with it, but it is those that specifically chases ->-bleeped-<-s, that makes the biggest deal about it.
Quote from: Bishounen on January 06, 2012, 01:18:31 PM
That is another thing, by the way, that the family of someone dating a transgendered person, is actually very often fully accepting about it.
Which is just another reason for why it is so strange that ->-bleeped-<-lovers often sees it as such a big deal. For it is usually the ->-bleeped-<-->-bleeped-<-s that have those issues, not the average bi or straight guy that all of the sudden happen to fall for a transsexual out of the blue, for those ones usually have no problem being open with it, but it is those that specifically chases ->-bleeped-<-s, that makes the biggest deal about it.
yeah... they re projecting their own fears, shame, and insecurities on their family members.... building up this huge picture of rejection in their minds before they even have approached the issue with their family members.
Yea in my experience they don't like others to know because they're afraid that people will think they're gay (when they clearly aren't). It's more about being worried other people will not accept them accepting you, rather than them not accepting you.
That being said, when my bf's mom found out that I was trans, he was mortified and she was like "That's so cool!" :P
Quote from: Butterflyhugs on January 06, 2012, 04:33:33 PM
Yea in my experience they don't like others to know because they're afraid that people will think they're gay (when they clearly aren't). It's more about other people not accepting them accepting you, rather than them not accepting you.
in other words they are coward only following his penis...
Sorry...i hate that kind of men.. i feel so upset looking at the thousan of men that hit in my gril friend´s contact pages knowing what they only want a secret relation....or only sex...i cant help myself to want crush their heads xDDDD
Quote from: Emi on January 06, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
in other words they are coward only following his penis...
Sorry...i hate that kind of men.. i feel so upset looking at the thousan of men that hit in my gril friend´s contact pages knowing what they only want a secret relation....or only sex...i cant help myself to want crush their heads xDDDD
ooo, you are a protective guy - I think that is sexy! :)
Yeah, if the man had his way, the TG/TS woman would be the mistress on the side, hidden in the shadows while he is pretending to live a normal day to day life and has a token wife to present to his family when family pictures are needed.
Quote from: MsDazzler on January 06, 2012, 04:46:51 PM
ooo, you are a protective guy - I think that is sexy! :)
Yeah, if the man had his way, the TG/TS woman would be the mistress on the side, hidden in the shadows while he is pretending to live a normal day to day life and has a token wife to present to his family when family pictures are needed.
Every other guy out there is awesome...except the married I am with.
shhhhhh I am a secret LOL
I thoug she believe the same, pity that i only got hints of that for now.
Well, no matters this relation is doomed because i will always push my gender a bit more to a femme side