I feel like I am caught in a tornado and I am just going round and round doing the same stupid motions each day :-\
I feel like I am going nowhere in life sitting with a marriage that is hopeless due to a spouse that was the best thing that ever happened to me and that I thought was a gift from God in my life to I don't even know how to describe her anymore. She made it clear all road that she is leaving open is one where I walk away out of her life.
I feel this is unfair because how do you love someone for 10 years and decide O you have dysphoria you are not worthy of me anymore! You can stay a man but you are not worthy because you cant be a provider also and buy me everything other men can. She was happy with who I was for 10 years.
Then begs the question why did she take my dysphoria in the first place and made it her battle? I tracked all the events of this past year from that I came out and realised the moment I came out I gave the dysphoria meaning I made it concrete! Also be very careful that your wife does not take your dysphoria and make it her problem and want to fight it for you!
It is a disaster waiting to happen. We had a fight this morning and I mentioned this to her. Now she wants to go to couples counceling. But I am so hurt by her that I feel I can't continue anymore I want to just go and live on my own island in peace. Is this going to be the rest of my life fighting no respect at all! I can't see that she will ever respect me anymore. She is telling me it is not fair for my child that I wanted to be a woman. Well it is not fair also getting divorced. But is it fair growing up in a house where both parents is unhappy then. I can cope with having dysphoria but will I really be happy in any direction? I don't think so really.
She hurt me so badly I feel that I want to end it no matter how bad it hurts walking away. Take the beating of becoming a woman and get it over and done with and find someone that appreciates me for me and not. She will never accept me for being me. She will never accept the dysphoria. She will never be happy or truly happy.Is this why I am taking this beating because she is unhappy ?
Yes, life is not fair and yes, people often don't fight fair either. So sorry you are in a painful place with your partner. I hope there is a physical place you can be that is safe and quiet. I hope there are other people in your life that you might talk with and find support from too.
I am one that believes we do our spouse and children no favors by avoiding uncomfortable truths. I'm not sure we are ever over and done with and dating can too often be that grass is greener thing. I hope you can focus on being true to yourself however and whenever you can.
I am not sure where you live or what laws are applicable, but if you were in the UK I would be advising you to go and see your GP and tell them that you have Gender Dysphoria and are seeking treatment for it. Once that is done I would be popping along to a divorce lawyer and tell them that you are starting medical treatment for a recognised diagnosable and treatable condition (ICD10-F64.0) and get legal advice. Finally I would tell the wife that I have done what she asked and started proceedings.
If this is going to end in a split then it is vitally important to get yourself protected and, ideally, to be in as much control of a divorce / separation as possible. It may even well be that once you tell her that she is getting what she asked for that she might even realise this is no longer a game and she needs to deal with the situation that she has, in part, caused. She is not totally blameless in this - you and your dysphoria may have been the spark but she seems to be busy pouring petrol on the flames and then blaming you for the fireball created.
BTW, generally speaking children are OK with a transitioning parent, but it is well known that they can be damaged by the process of an acrimonious divorce.
Amoré,
Is the suggestion of couples counseling just a tactic? Is it possible, over time she may come around? This is a hard thing to accept in ones self, likewise difficult for the spouse. Many feel betrayed or lied to.
I am not saying you are wrong. Nor am I supporting abuse to you. Just curious if she might come around after some self realization in couples therapy?
I don't have any answers for you. I feel badly about where you are and how betrayed you must feel.
I hope your journey becomes smoother and easier.
with warmth,
Joanna
I am tired of playing this game and I can see this relationship and strain is toxic for my baby girl. I feel like ->-bleeped-<- when I tried to speak to my wife this morning and my daughter of two came in there papa stop it. I realised at that moment that somewhere along the line I will have to see this relationship for what it is.
I am doing no one a favour by trying to make this thing work if my wife is not willing to work with me. I am only making this thing more toxic. :'(
Am I trying to safe something that is inevitable to ever work again? She is keep on hammering that I wanted to be a woman and I still want to be a woman but I am coping with my feeling. I can just see that trying to work on this thing alone is pushing her away and making things toxic for my child.
Is it the time now to walk away and never look back and call a spade a spade.
I am so afraid she will be unhappy in the future she told me she know I have dysphoria now and is battling with it. This changes the game for her and I can understand that it makes the decision to stay with someone like me very difficult because she is uncertain about if I will flip out in the future.
Am I doing the right thing then to walk away to protect them from getting hurt any further. Giving her the opportunity to be free and happy. As difficult as this may seem is it the right time to walk away.
I stopped my hormones for this woman and I love her with everything in me and my love just want me to be with her and share my life with her. I just don't know if it is the time to walk away.
Am I doing the right thing then to walk away to protect them from getting hurt any further. Giving her the opportunity to be free and happy. As difficult as this may seem is it the right time to walk away.
From everything you've posted to this point, I think you need to walk away to protect yourself from being hurt further. Maybe, if you get out before the toxicity of the relationship becomes deadly, you can circle back in time and become good friends with your wife and good co-parents for your daughter. Right now though... you're trying to rebuild during an active hurricane.
It sounds to me like she was using all the divorce language to punish and harass you and that you called her bluff. You stood up and made it real and immanent and now it's something that's going to really happen. Reality is biting her now.
I have no idea if couples counseling will work but if you do try it then there has to be at least a 50/50 compromise. If you give less than that it's almost guaranteed that this cycle will repeat over and over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Tamika Olivia on December 30, 2015, 07:01:36 AM
From everything you've posted to this point, I think you need to walk away to protect yourself from being hurt further. Maybe, if you get out before the toxicity of relationship becomes deadly, you can circle back in time and become good friend with your wife and good co-parents for your daughter. Right now though... you're trying to rebuild during an active hurricane.
I am considering walking away to protect myself. The problem is looking at my child I feel like a failure of a parent if I walk away :'( I agree with you building while in an active volcano is dangerous. This does not work well as I found out.
I am sitting trying to figure things out for myself and being the best that I can be in the worst situation.
Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 07:25:12 AM
I am considering walking away to protect myself. The problem is looking at my child I feel like a failure of a parent if I walk away :'( I agree with you building while in an active volcano is dangerous. This does not work well as I found out.
I am sitting trying to figure things out for myself and being the best that I can be in the worst situation.
Staying married to protect the kids hardly ever works. By walking away, you're not failing as a parent, you're a triumphant parent. You are removing the toxic marriage from the equation, giving your wife a chance to heal, and you're giving yourself a chance to find out who you really are, free of the burden of this marriage. All of these things, in the fullness of time, will be healthier for your child than the current situation.
Quote from: Deborah on December 30, 2015, 07:10:02 AM
It sounds to me like she was using all the divorce language to punish and harass you and that you called her bluff. You stood up and made it real and immanent and now it's something that's going to really happen. Reality is biting her now.
I have no idea if couples counseling will work but if you do try it then there has to be at least a 50/50 compromise. If you give less than that it's almost guaranteed that this cycle will repeat over and over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I haven't got a clue really if this was the case I wan't out because this is causing unnecessary drama and hurt in something that could have been sorted out a while back then.I don't want to repeat this cycle also if every time she does not get her way. She have seen now where she got power. She was telling me I am harassing her for trying to speak to her to try again and she should have gotten a restraining order a long time ago but she is giving me the benefit of the doubt. Al this is just talk and threats it is confusing the crap out of me and if I ask her why did you not divorce yet or when do you want to do it then she says there is no money but there is money and I offered her to pay for the divorce then because I can't take the emotional abuse anymore.
Through all this the victim that did not ask for this or deserve this is my child that is getting emotionally scared for parents that is sleeping in different beds. My wife that refuses to hug or kiss me for 5 months now. She is being raised in a house where the foundation is showing spite and rejection from my wife's side. I am trying to fix this but trying to have an adult conversation with a person that wants it her way and can't step back and asses a situation for what it is, is like speaking to a wall.
Quote from: Tamika Olivia on December 30, 2015, 07:36:06 AM
Staying married to protect the kids hardly ever works. By walking away, you're not failing as a parent, you're a triumphant parent. You are removing the toxic marriage from the equation, giving your wife a chance to heal, and you're giving yourself a chance to find out who you really are, free of the burden of this marriage. All of these things, in the fullness of time, will be healthier for your child than the current situation.
This is a new perspective I actually agree with this ::)
Speaking as a kid whose mother and bio father hate each other, and whose mother and step father stuck together "for the kids" even though it caused more stress than I can describe, I don't think it's necessarily the best thing for your kid if the situation is always tense around the house and when you and your wife are around each other. Kids pick up on stuff and if you can't create the facade of a happy family to protect her then I don't see the use of going through all that pain because your kid will feel the effects anyway. Especially as they get older.
I know that as a kid I looked at my mom and both of my dads as the primary example of "what married life was" and I've been forever put off the idea since.
Sounds like it would be better for you to be away from your wife, better for her to be away from you and better for your kid in the long run. If I were in your shoes two things would bother me about that though, one if you think your wife is going to poison your kid against you, and the other would be the alimony and child support issue. I hear the laws on that are brutal in some places, regardless of how difficult a father's personal situation is, the law does not care about the father.
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on December 30, 2015, 08:26:12 AM
Speaking as a kid whose mother and bio father hate each other, and whose mother and step father stuck together "for the kids" even though it caused more stress than I can describe, I don't think it's necessarily the best thing for your kid if the situation is always tense around the house and when you and your wife are around each other. Kids pick up on stuff and if you can't create the facade of a happy family to protect her then I don't see the use of going through all that pain because your kid will feel the effects anyway. Especially as they get older.
I know that as a kid I looked at my mom and both of my dads as the primary example of "what married life was" and I've been forever put off the idea since.
Sounds like it would be better for you to be away from your wife, better for her to be away from you and better for your kid in the long run. If I were in your shoes two things would bother me about that though, one if you think your wife is going to poison your kid against you, and the other would be the alimony and child support issue. I hear the laws on that are brutal in some places, regardless of how difficult a father's personal situation is, the law does not care about the father.
I can relate to growing up in a toxic household my mother and father hate each other. It was a physical and emotional abusive relationship that was the example I had of a relationship. I swore I will never repeat what they did. Now fast forward to dads number two she was okay she knew I was trans as a teenager she was the only one that accepted it the psychiatrist told my father it is just a phase but she knew I was different because she saw the real me I was like a glass box to her. She tried to help my father understand but things got worse and between my fathers stubbornness and him believing it will pass and he can fix me I went through hell and she gave up fighting for me. She turned real step mother for some reason and everything went south they got divorced.
Know my father is married to the family know it all control it all type that is in the self proclaimed advisory role. She is a sister nurse whatever that want to argue with me that being trans/gay/lesbian whatever is not biological but physiological
and came up with the conclusion if it was biological my hormones would have shown it. I would not have normal hormone levels for a male. We choose to be what we are. She is also a big dictator in my marriage and is one that also helped steer it in this direction. She is a real piece of work.
My dad made piece with it and is just getting mad because I can't decide what I want to be at this stage. He just want all the drama to end. So do I!
The thing is I can't create a facade of a happy life and how love should look in front of my child because of my stubborn wife I told her now you must choose do you really want to fix this or are we going to play this stupid game and drag it out until you decided you had your revenge or whatever she is trying to prove because if you want to divorce do it don't drag it out for 5 months! When I ask her why she did not get around it and I did not want to divorce her she comes up with a lame excuse.
When things are getting tense my child attitude changes towards me and she imitates her mother and don't want to hug me or anything. I am not the abusive type I am normally the fixer I am normally the one sitting and taking the hits and telling her like there is hope there is help we just have to get it. Then the emotional abusive crap starts and some of this is happening in front of my child. She is seeing me cry and being brought to tears and weak and fragile.
I just feel this whole thing is turning brutal and my child is in the crossfire :embarrassed: :'(
Quote from: T.K.G.W. on December 30, 2015, 08:26:12 AM
Speaking as a kid whose mother and bio father hate each other, and whose mother and step father stuck together "for the kids" even though it caused more stress than I can describe, I don't think it's necessarily the best thing for your kid if the situation is always tense around the house and when you and your wife are around each other. Kids pick up on stuff and if you can't create the facade of a happy family to protect her then I don't see the use of going through all that pain because your kid will feel the effects anyway. Especially as they get older.
I know that as a kid I looked at my mom and both of my dads as the primary example of "what married life was" and I've been forever put off the idea since.
My wife can tell many a horror story about people who stay together (and get seperate to only return and things get rocky again, 'New Start', make up baby #2 and so on.. :( ) will ultimately effect the kids. I am totally amazed hearing her horror stories of knife & bottle fights, flying turkeys for Thanksgiving and so on how spiritually evolved she is. Credit goes to Grandma she says. I say she was left on the doorstep by wolves. No way she could be a product of their DNA. Her younger sister and baby brother are lost causes and so emotionally damaged. It is sad.
My wife would rather see me happy and us apart then for both of us being miserable and/or me swinging from the end of a rope. She knows first hand all too painfully well what 'Staying Together' will do. As much as I empathize with you and your desire to stay with her as it reflects in many ways my 'Managing' my GD to stay with the love of my life, taking on the trans-beast also requires your partners cooperation and support. That you do not have. You have the anti-supporter who wishes the genie could be put back into the bottle and perhaps hates you for turning her world and dreams upside down.
Marriage is a partnership. You try all all you want and as hard as you can to 'fix' things but if the partner isn't willing your efforts are destined to fail. And likely fail spectacularly leaving an emotionally crippled child in the wake as well as a wife that bitterly hates you and you hating yourself. Hating for trying, hating for dreaming, hating for a fools dream of perhaps just maybe finding some way to simply being happy being you, whoever that 'You' may grow to be.
Hi Amore
I have to say that I think it is time for you to get out while you can and before she gets violent and gets a restraining order against you. Don't worry about your daughter if your wife is a good care taker. You will never be denied the right to see your daughter. Always be yourself around her, If you are going to be the women then you will want to do that in front of your daughter. She is only 2 years old. she will always love you no matter what. Also never say anything bad to her about your wife as that is not right for your daughter or you. If you want her respect when she gets older, you will by doing that. If your wife beats you up in front of her it will come back to get her in the end. Unlike you my wife left me and all my children in 1990. She took off with some one who was suppose to be one of my best friends. I am so happy he did me the favor now as she was and still is a raging alcoholic. I raise all three of my children from 9weeks old till they got married and moved out. I came out to them first and they all said they were fine with it as i was alway both mom and dad any way to them. I know it is hard right now but everything will get better. Time heals! I would be lying to you if I told you that it wouldn't be a tough couple of years ahead of you but keep your head up it will get better. I will be here God willing If there is any way that I can help PM me.
Big Hug's
Lyndsey
As I am writing this I am sobbing uncontrollably. She just wanted to drag me to my therapist to force the divorce down my throat and she admitted this to me now. I wanted to give it all for this woman only to find out I am more broken by the reality of what she was planning. She told me she wants peace and the only way she can have it is with me out of her life. I can't imagine that I can be this burden to her. I am starting to hate her hate what she is doing to me!
I got so fed up that I reached out and took my first dosage of hrt in 3 weeks. I can't fight her and my trans beast. I can't hurt like this anymore. I hate her I really am starting to hate her.
Joanne
Your post brought me to tears. Well said.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 01:02:01 PM
As I am writing this I am sobbing uncontrollably. She just wanted to drag me to my therapist to force the divorce down my throat and she admitted this to me now.
If it was me, I would take her to the therapist and let her do her thing. I would then name the therapist as a witness to her unreasonable behaviour and request custody of my child.
Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 01:02:01 PMI wanted to give it all for this woman only to find out I am more broken by the reality of what she was planning. She told me she wants peace and the only way she can have it is with me out of her life.
You will always know that you tried your best, that you did everything you could and that she rebuffed you. This is a storm that she has made, a rod for her own back. Never forget that. You tried so hard that it reduced you to tears, Never forget that either
Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 01:02:01 PMI got so fed up that I reached out and took my first dosage of hrt in 3 weeks. I can't fight her and my trans beast. I can't hurt like this anymore. I hate her I really am starting to hate her.
I hope it gives you some relief.
Dear Amoré, you really look so beautiful and feminine in body and psyche. I'm touched by your image.
I've been married twice. Left a first marriage when my daughter was one year. But I was very fortunate and obtained shared care of my daughter (50:50 split) which despite some (serious) ups and downs over the years, worked out extremely well. My daughters an adult now and a very independent/strong character.
Back when I did, I knew I had to leave - I knew I had to jump the gap when the opportunity presented itself, because I sensed I would otherwise become trapped in a marriage with someone I just didn't like as a person - and 16-18 years till a child is an adult, is a long long time (as well as being, as others have already mentioned, a sacrifice about which it is unclear as to whether actually beneficial for children). My experience is that the opportunities to 'jump' soon fade away and might take several years and more heartache to re-present themselves. Also, I sensed that when a child is very young, parents separating can be much less distressing (for them), than when they are 5,6,7,8,9, etc.
I also deeply loved and adored my daughter, and did everything I could to create a situation/environment which I believed the courts would consider suitable for the granting of shared care. At the same time, I do think, that if I had thought my ex would have brought up my daughter really well (i.e. really given her that special attention and devotion and nurturing that a good natural mother can give - the 'golden elixir' of life, so to speak), then I would probably have settled for less than 50%, maybe far less - maybe for nothing - as I believe in certain circumstances, leaving one parent to bring up the child and saving the child from all the stress that 'fighting-it-out' can bring, can also be a gift to the child. I couldn't do that in my circumstances, as I considered my ex to be severely lacking in terms of the love and stability she could provide to my daughter. Rather I knew that was my job to perform. Though I did have representation at times, as far as possible I represented myself in court, as I had neither the financial resources to cover paying for representation, plus I think in family cases, self-representation can provide the court with an opportunity to get more of a sense of an individual.
I know what you mean about going 'round and round' - I always thought it was like pass-the-parcel of bad-emotional energy. Personally, I believe the only way out of the feedback loop, is some time apart, even if for a few days informal weekend break. There is little more true than the saying: time apart makes the heart grow fonder and sometimes more forgiving.
I wonder if in the end, it comes down to whether each of the partners actually like each other. We all get so bound up in huge themes of love and devotion and sacrifice - that 'like' seems such a small almost irrelevant 'sentiment'. But I'm sure it's the most important factor, as when we like someone, and their character and who they are, it's amazing the allowances we can make - but when its missing, there's just no real connection.
best wishes and I hope the new year brings something really special for you.
Quote from: pyhxbp on December 30, 2015, 02:01:58 PM
I hope it gives you some relief.
It is basically just a way of showing her the finger. I know she want to control my transition and who I am because she believes a child must have a father figure. Now I beg the question I must be this father figure in her life but I am not worthy to be her husband because I am transgender ??? She is contradicting herself and what I realised she is the selfish one because if she really had her child best interests at heart she would have told me. You want to stay a man for me and a father for your daughter. Lets go to the therapist and try and work on a plan but she thinks I am stupid.
She will listen to all the other people in the world except me. The funny thing is when people that used to support her like my father starts to see her abusing nature and getting her way. He told me he is waiting for her because she is selfish manipulative and she had everybody under a false impression that I was the abusive one well they saw what is really going on because we visited them for a week they saw what is really going on. Who is the abuser and who is getting abused.
They saw who was on tears and who is really hurting. So her whole facade came crushing down of sorts.
This is starting to become one vicious cycle and I gave up so much for this woman if I did not quite hrt for her I would have been 6 months on hrt and seen leaps and bounds in changes I hope.
Also I would have been much more comfortable being me and would have a lot more laser sessions under my belt. I said I wanted to live full time by six months and judging from previous experience I can do it without getting too much grief.
I feel that person in the avatar is the real me this person that is a image of a man, the expiry date is long over due
Kellie I really like your answer unfortunately my wife is going to fight for full custody. She said I am too unstable to raise a child as I have depression she also sees gd as an reason. If I may ask did you transition in the end?
I think you have your answer. You can't live the old life and need treatment. Your wife want you in couples consoling because she thinks the consoler will side with her against you. There are people who never think they are wrong and your wife appears to be one of them. Unless she is willing to change and accept the changes that will happen to you, this marriage will end and it's only a question of when.
Talk to a therapist about this but the longer you remain in this unhealthy relationship, the more it will hurt you.
Quote from: Dena on December 30, 2015, 02:51:37 PM
I think you have your answer. You can't live the old life and need treatment. Your wife want you in couples consoling because she thinks the consoler will side with her against you. There are people who never think they are wrong and your wife appears to be one of them. Unless she is willing to change and accept the changes that will happen to you, this marriage will end and it's only a question of when.
Talk to a therapist about this but the longer you remain in this unhealthy relationship, the more it will hurt you.
I think you are so right about this she wants my therapist to side with her. She thought my dad was sided with her. They was at a point when I came out but now they changed.
The only change she really had to accept was that I had dysphoria that I had under control when I coped with it alone. She wanted to know why I wanted to have a man bun! why I whore concealer sometimes.
I realised the help she have isn't sufficient. This person is the one that encouraged her to divorce and get out. She is seeing a therapist but this person is not helping much with acceptance rather telling her to jump the gun. Well I realised that she has a major identity issue from that I met her she was never comfortable around other woman took long to make friends. She don't dress feminine her hair is always in a pony tail she never wears makeup. I could never understand it really. She won't wear heels also no girly shoes no dresses skirts nothing.
I wonder if my issue did not bring up a part of her that scared the crap out of her and she is afraid if she stick longer it might come up or her family and friends might question her sexuality. I came out to all of them when I started my transition.
Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
If I may ask did you transition in the end?
Thanks, am transitioning now.
For ref, from what you've described I don't feel there is a comparison in that regard between our circumstances, in that you are far further along in transition and feminine expression as your way of being than I was when in the marriage situation I described.
I was quite feminine as a teenager, but then other life and circumstances took over...
Yes, I would suggest most cisgender wives with TG spouses must deal with their own sexuality being questioned. "Are you two lesbians now?" That is not an uncommon response we have heard over the last few years as that binary thinking is so pervasive. Ill informed people also consider that one member of a gay or lesbian relationship must be the husband or wife. For those less educated it seems the world is still black and white, male and female. How very limited.
Good for you in making that clear declaration of who you are when coming out about your transition.
Thank you guys I slept nothing last night and feel like I am dying inside at this stage.
I am so broken. This is the wife I married and I can't understand how she became this selfish person that does not think about her family and stopped caring about everything but herself. She says she is protecting my child against me but from what? Except from the fighting of me trying to speak to a stubborn person that does not want to listen to anyone about fixing our marriage we never in our while relationship fought. We had our moments but not ugly like it is now.
She looks if she want to control the whole situation. We can have a fight now and it will look if it does not bother her it does not move her emotionally she will go on with her life as if nothing happened and not bat an eyelid at the distress and screams for help and fixing that her relationship is in. I feel like she is causing her child more pain with this stubborn behaviour she reckons that she must be the stable one for my child but really?
I really don't know what to do it hurts like hell walking away I want to speak to her and let her understand that it does not have to end this way. But what she is feeling is different she believes the best thing to do is divorce and she is telling me she already made up her mind and nothing is going to change it.
This morning I was sitting here at my fathers house and we started arguing.
This is stuff that is making me mad they decided for me I am not happy with myself. I told them so what you want to tell me I must become a woman then. They can't understand that I am unhappy with the situation that I am in they are accusing me of being unhappy with myself but in fact I am unhappy with the stupid abusive situation I am in. I thought my father would really understand the situation but rather it became a session of bashing me. I am so fed up of them telling me I don't know what I want to be! I want to stay a man to rescue my marriage but then I don't know what I want to be. I am so fed up that I feel I just want to transition that they stop irritating me. Because if I stay a man I don't know what I want to be because I have gd that I can't help.
I just learned to cope with my gd but by my own choice I will transition if I am free and not tied in marriage to someone because then it is none of their business. How many times did I really post on here and said I was unhappy with myself it is always about some crises I have in life due to circumstances. Then I decide well screw it I am going my own way just to end up circling around.
They are telling me I must sort myself out well don't they think circumstance can drive you insane. I am cough between a rock and a pile driver. I am being controlled by her. Will this always be a issue for them wondering if I am happy with myself. If I had a bad day at work will they see it as I am unhappy with myself.
This is the thing they want to tell me the all are completely happy with themselves? I made a choice to stay a man and try and rescue this thing I am calling a marriage. I left hormones I don't mind being a man gd comes and goes like it did all the years but being emotionally abused and threatened with divorce each day is not healthy. Then I asked why do you threaten me every day, she told me so that I don't give you hope. Hope of what? DO she want to see if I stay a man if there is no hope left? If I stay a man without them?
I was told I must be happy with myself for myself well I feel I would be happy with myself if I can fix this whole thing. If transitioning would have made me happier than having my marriage back and my loved ones would I not choose that above them? But they are forcing me to transition and put that above my marriage. I understand they want me to be happy and sort myself out but really?
Are they seeing something that I don't see is my dysphoria really that obvious?
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
They are telling me I must sort myself out well don't they think circumstance can drive you insane. I am cough between a rock and a pile driver. ... I made a choice to stay a man and try and rescue this thing I am calling a marriage.
They are almost right. You do need to sort things out rather than yourself. The abusive situation with your wife is probably the major obstacle in your life and I am sorry to say that, given what you have said about it, I think your marriage is doomed. I cannot see how you can save it. What does your family say about the marriage? Talk to them about that.
For a marriage to be a marriage it requires two people to consent to being in it. Since you say that your wife has said the marriage is over then it is over. It cannot be one-sided because it requires commitment from you both.
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
Are they seeing something that I don't see is my dysphoria really that obvious?
Probably yes. They certainly see your unhappiness if not your dysphoria and I am sure that they do not want you to be unhappy.
I went over a list of 30 signs of emotional abuse and ticked the ones that matches my situation I was left shocked. :-\ :-\ :-\
This is the list: :o
They regularly demean or disregard your opinions, ideas, suggestions, or needs.
They use sarcasm or "teasing" to put you down or make you feel bad about yourself.
They accuse you of being "too sensitive" in order to deflect their abusive remarks.
They try to control you and treat you like a child.
They correct or chastise you for your behavior.
You feel like you need permission to make decisions or go out somewhere.
They try to control the finances and how you spend money.
They try to make you feel as though they are always right, and you are wrong.
They give you disapproving or contemptuous looks or body language.
They regularly point out your flaws, mistakes, or shortcomings.
They accuse or blame you of things you know aren't true.
They are intolerant of any seeming lack of respect.
They make excuses for their behavior, try to blame others, and have difficulty apologizing.
The repeatedly cross your boundaries and ignore your requests.
They blame you for their problems, life difficulties, or unhappiness.
They are emotionally distant or emotionally unavailable most of the time.
They resort to pouting or withdrawal to get attention or attain what they want.
They don't show you empathy or compassion.
They play the victim and try to deflect blame to you rather than taking personal responsibility.
They disengage or use neglect or abandonment to punish or frighten you.
They don't seem to notice or care about your feelings
They view you as an extension of themselves rather than as an individual.
They share personal information about you with others.
They invalidate or deny their emotionally abusive behavior when confronted.
They make subtle threats or negative remarks with the intent to frighten or control you.
Out of 30 I am experiencing 25 of them this is sort of an eye opener and explains why I am feeling like I do most of the time. A lot of this is even before I came out to her.
I could have put an example with each one but I will rather not! How must I go about it must I invite her for her invitation at my therapist to bash me and bring these things up and tell her what she is doing even if she realises it or not because I told her she is emotionally abusing me and she is obviously denying it.
From that I came out as trans it just was if she felt she have the right to abuse me. She tried to change and be a good wife but she fell back in her same pattern very quickly.
She is playing a stupid game because this morning she told me in front of my father if I fix myself then we will see in the far future if we can get back together. The problem is not in the far future it is now. I have a lot of mornings that I get up and I'm positive I carry her on my hands. I try my best to fill every wish and at the end just to hear I am trying to manipulate her how is that manipulation?How if I fill her wishes am I trying to manipulate her?
If I try and be more positive about my marriage if I decide I am staying a man because that is what she wants I am trying to manipulate her. There is just no pleasing her because if you fix the one thing and concede to her demand she just comes up with something else.
The thing is I realised this has been going on for a long time. I am not broken by being transgender I am broken because of the bashing I have been enduring. I was transgender my whole life and I decided not to pursue it when I met her and I was happy with my choice.I was still happy with my choice when I told her about it again. But her abusive nature drove me into the ground stripped me of the last piece of integrity that I had to the point that I did not feel human anymore. I felt I am invisible to her why must I live then I had no value left. My suicide attempt was not because I can't transition I can transition any time I want I got my hrt with me. It was because I felt I had no value as a human anymore. I had no value living and no value to there life's.
I realise there is no other way than to start being selfish. I must start protecting myself. Stop worrying about pleasing or protecting the abuser. I am trying to do this things. I really need to get to my therapist but they are not open this time of the year only back on the 6th.
She told me she can't take being emotionally abused. I sat and asked her what do you mean she said if I want to grow my hair long and she does not like it I will try to negotiate with her to get my way. That is because I feel I need her permission for everything including who I am supposed to be.I was emotionally abusive because I used my own money to fund my hobbies I still gave her everything she wanted but she said no I am not allowed to buy them and she said no is no and we had an argument until she decided I am allowed to buy the helicopter. She said this is emotional abuse towards her because I did not give in till she gave me what I wanted.It rather looks like a power trip from her side and when she had a loss of power over me and I did what I want to she screamed emotional abuse. This begs the question it is my hard deserved money and there was no money problems why am I not allowed to treat myself.
I really would not wish this on my worst enemy now that I realised what is really happening and starting to see the patterns.My therapist started to see the patterns of emotional abuse she told me you are being accused of abusing but you are being abused.
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 05:48:44 AM
I went over a list of 30 signs of emotional abuse and ticked the ones that matches my situation I was left shocked. :-\ :-\ :-\
It is hard to judge a situation from the inside, it is often easier for others who are less involved to see the whole picture.
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 05:48:44 AM
she said if I want to grow my hair long and she does not like it I will try to negotiate with her to get my way. That is because I feel I need her permission for everything including who I am supposed to be.
No one should have to seek permission to be themselves.
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 05:48:44 AMI really would not wish this on my worst enemy now that I realised what is really happening and starting to see the patterns.My therapist started to see the patterns of emotional abuse she told me you are being accused of abusing but you are being abused.
It sounds like you will have a lot to talk about when you next see your therapist, but now that you are aware of your own situation it will help you resist her.
There are two truths you need to understand. Love can blind us to the faults in others and as people age, they change and not always for the better. It's very likely that both of these truths are in play between you and your wife. She may have had the selfish side when you married but chose to ignore it out of love and over time, I think she has become more controlling because she has learned she has very strong control over you. It will hurt but the only help I can see for you is to break the link with her because you aren't strong enough to dominate her. You are a sensitive personality and that type of domination takes somebody pretty ruthless. Becoming that type of person would destroy you as a person.
"Life Sucks and then You Die" is the underlying philosophical lesson you were being lectured about. Suck it up; Get over it; You made your bed now lie in it; etc.. You know the drill. When you look back in literature and in history people chasing their dreams are scorned upon. They upset the natural order of things.
Yes, we all made choices and those decisions have consequences. Some good, some bad. There is never an absolutely right decision. Having spent a lifetime as an engineer, I have heard time after time about engineers never wanting to 'Let Go" of things. always wanting to make it perfect. Add in one more feature. One of the things that separates me from the pack is my philosophy of A) The rent needs to be paid. As in we got to sell something and make money at it. and B) There is always next years model.
I grew up surrounded by water and loved boating. So did my wife. For her it was sail boats. It appealed to her Scottish heritage (you don't have to buy gas). I saw all the work involved in a sailboat and said I like to turn the key and go. "Turning the key and going" is how most people go through life.
There is an old sailing adage that took a long time to sink into me as it applies more to life then to actually sailing. "It is not about the destination but the voyage". Sailing teaches you that you constantly need to adjust for the winds. Much like in life you always need to adjust for what life throws at you. And THAT is work. Which is why you see so many power boats on the water vs sail.
If you happen to be trans there are two ways to go through life. Take the "Life sucks and then you die" approach as I did for some 40 plus years. Believe it is a complete fools errand to even think that you change your circumstances. Worse of all, believe that you do not deserve any happiness, any joy because of who/what you are. Or, you can make adjustments for the winds of life and what the seas are throwing at you. Have a destination in mind but enjoy every port you find yourself in on the way there.
One of my all time favorite movies since I was a kid is Harvey staring Jimmy Stewart. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/?ref_=ttqt_qt_tt) Since it's B&W it is never played on the tele any more. There are two great quotes I often think about:
Elwood P. Dowd: Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. And especially
Elwood P. Dowd: Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 03:18:46 AM
This morning I was sitting here at my fathers house and we started arguing.
This is stuff that is making me mad they decided for me I am not happy with myself. I told them so what you want to tell me I must become a woman then. They can't understand that I am unhappy with the situation that I am in they are accusing me of being unhappy with myself but in fact I am unhappy with the stupid abusive situation I am in. I thought my father would really understand the situation but rather it became a session of bashing me. I am so fed up of them telling me I don't know what I want to be! I want to stay a man to rescue my marriage but then I don't know what I want to be. I am so fed up that I feel I just want to transition that they stop irritating me. Because if I stay a man I don't know what I want to be because I have gd that I can't help.
I just learned to cope with my gd but by my own choice I will transition if I am free and not tied in marriage to someone because then it is none of their business. How many times did I really post on here and said I was unhappy with myself it is always about some crises I have in life due to circumstances. Then I decide well screw it I am going my own way just to end up circling around.
They are telling me I must sort myself out well don't they think circumstance can drive you insane. I am cough between a rock and a pile driver. I am being controlled by her. Will this always be a issue for them wondering if I am happy with myself. If I had a bad day at work will they see it as I am unhappy with myself.
This is the thing they want to tell me the all are completely happy with themselves? I made a choice to stay a man and try and rescue this thing I am calling a marriage. I left hormones I don't mind being a man gd comes and goes like it did all the years but being emotionally abused and threatened with divorce each day is not healthy. Then I asked why do you threaten me every day, she told me so that I don't give you hope. Hope of what? DO she want to see if I stay a man if there is no hope left? If I stay a man without them?
I was told I must be happy with myself for myself well I feel I would be happy with myself if I can fix this whole thing. If transitioning would have made me happier than having my marriage back and my loved ones would I not choose that above them? But they are forcing me to transition and put that above my marriage. I understand they want me to be happy and sort myself out but really?
Are they seeing something that I don't see is my dysphoria really that obvious?
Quote from: Lyndsey on December 30, 2015, 12:54:21 PM
Hi Amore
I have to say that I think it is time for you to get out while you can and before she gets violent and gets a restraining order against you. Don't worry about your daughter if your wife is a good care taker. You will never be denied the right to see your daughter. Always be yourself around her, If you are going to be the women then you will want to do that in front of your daughter. She is only 2 years old. she will always love you no matter what. Also never say anything bad to her about your wife as that is not right for your daughter or you. If you want her respect when she gets older, you will by doing that. If your wife beats you up in front of her it will come back to get her in the end. Unlike you my wife left me and all my children in 1990. She took off with some one who was suppose to be one of my best friends. I am so happy he did me the favor now as she was and still is a raging alcoholic. I raise all three of my children from 9weeks old till they got married and moved out. I came out to them first and they all said they were fine with it as i was alway both mom and dad any way to them. I know it is hard right now but everything will get better. Time heals! I would be lying to you if I told you that it wouldn't be a tough couple of years ahead of you but keep your head up it will get better. I will be here God willing If there is any way that I can help PM me.
Big Hug's
Lyndsey
I feel this is such good guidance all round.
I know you love your wife amore but from your postings it's time to move on. My wife knows where I draw the line and she knows too cross said line means I'm gone,I love my wife but not enough too give up who I am. I feel of you move out of that toxic environment you will be much happier.
All of you have such good advice it is just that I am battling with this thing I call my heart. I am a fixer of nature and I would love to fix my relationship. But I know I can do only so much if she does not want to cooperate. I must try to focus on the things I can control.
I am trying to figure out my new years resolution but I know that would not include fixing my marriage because I can't fix it only from my side.
I would try to go with something like focus on other aspects of my life. They said I am broken and I need to repair myself I feel fine actually it is my situation that needs to get direction and be resolved.
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
All of you have such good advice it is just that I am battling with this thing I call my heart. I am a fixer of nature and I would love to fix my relationship. But I know I can do only so much if she does not want to cooperate. I must try to focus on the things I can control.
I am trying to figure out my new years resolution but I know that would not include fixing my marriage because I can't fix it only from my side.
I would try to go with something like focus on other aspects of my life. They said I am broken and I need to repair myself I feel fine actually it is my situation that needs to get direction and be resolved.
Dear Amore, your post reminded me of the saying/proverb:
QuoteMay I manifest the grace to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Sending you my heartfelt best wishes for the new year.
Quote from: Amoré on December 31, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
I would try to go with something like focus on other aspects of my life. They said I am broken and I need to repair myself I feel fine actually it is my situation that needs to get direction and be resolved.
Amoré, I know others in this thread have said "get a lawyer", but it's worth repeating. If you end up divorcing, you'll wish you got that legal advice sooner rather than later.
Could it be part of a New Year's Resolution? Get a consultation and some advice?
I have been following your threads now for sometime because for me you have been truly inspirational, I have refrained from replying because of a feeling of guilt due to my wife being understanding. I have to agree with Dena, you must move on, I too am a sensitive person and as she said trying to dominate her will only destroy you at your core.
Before I finally excepted myself our marriage was a constant battle ground that matched exactly what you describe of your current situation. The power struggle and arguments were superficial to the real underlying problem. She was a constant emotional abuser but in her defense it was because I hid my sensitivity and true self which would end in me digging my heals in and filling my heart full of rage.
I was consumed by it, exploding on her and my children on a regular basis. I myself didn't understand why I was so angry all the time, I hated the world, hated that she didn't hear my cries for help, I felt alone and that feeling only got worse when she had an affair with an ex of hers that she always fell back to when relationships failed.
She was my world, I had spent years giving her a life that many could only dream of, huge house, luxury vehicles, kids wonderland with their own private park. But that was all superficial making up for the unrest within. I remember saying to a friend when she began to wonder again, that it was like I had given her everything she ever wanted but I was the wrong person to fit in her perfect little picture. It's because I wasn't, I wasn't me.
While I did end up with a supporting wife after all was said and done, you and I have many similarities in what we have faced. You are just going through the path in reverse order and I can tell you from experience that is no way to live, it will bring you to such a dark place that you begin to question taking your own life.
I don't say this lightly but you need to leave her for both your sake and your children, have you thought about how things would have been if she was supportive? Do you feel that it could have somehow been an easier decision? My experience is that it is not, it helps with the freak factor to be so well accepted but it makes the decisions much more difficult in how it will affect your family going forward.
I see you constantly struggling with not going through with it to save your marriage but reality is your marriage is already gone and choosing to stay now will only put you in a place I lived in the last 5 years and I promise you what you are dealing with now is a cakewalk to what it will become.
Even if she had been accepting the struggle you face now of should I go through with it for the sake of saving your marriage would still be there and it wouldn't have been any easier. My wife says she feels that it would have been easier on me if she had not been understanding and turned into someone like your wife. (we talk about your story)
For me my truths are if I wasn't married, I would have already transitioned. I'm scared shirtless of what this will do to my children. I'm scared shirtless of losing my wife due to outside pressure or her not being attracted to me after my transition. She herself is scared of not being able to sexually please me or falling out of love with me. I know that I need to try to be the best me but what will the cost of doing so be? I pray that she too can find happiness after all is said and done but that might not be a reality. So do I transition and see how she feels and revert if she's not okay with it, then try to find a happy medium where we both can be somewhat happy? Or what if she's okay with it throughout the years and once SRS is complete she freaks out and its too late?
I truly feel you will be in a better place once you find it in yourself to move on and I hope that what I have written today can help you find peace with that decision. I just wanted to try and give back because your story has helped me come to terms with things more than you know.
Quote from: kellie5 on December 31, 2015, 10:54:19 AM
I feel this is such good guidance all round.
Thank You Sweetie I only want the best for all of us. We all have it very hard and each one of us has a very different situation that is unique to each of us. Like My wife left me and the kids. Oh well the Guy that took her can keep her and I was miserable with her and so weren't my children. As she is and still is a raging alcoholic. I drink very little. But I can't lie I do like to have a few when the time is right. If I was Amore I think that this is not a good time to drink as she needs to keep her mind threw all that she is going threw. My Heart goes out to her as I can feel the pain she is feeling. I was crying when I read what she wrote this morning. She has a very hard 3 or so years ahead of her. But she will get threw it. I want her to know she can PM me 24-7 as I'm a light sleeper and would do what ever I can to help her and comfort her.
By the way I just saw your request on Facebook and you are welcome.
Love
Lyndsey
+1 what Cheryl Reeves said. It is time for you to walk away from that marriage, if it can even be called that any more. You keep going on and on about staying a man and saving the marriage, but really, there is nothing left to save. What you have is a marriage that exists only on paper.
With this whole "staying a man" thing you are a knight charging up to save Rapunzel, only she does not want to be saved, and she is most assuredly not letting down her hair.
And you, poor knight, are sitting out in the cold, when everyone is telling you to move on. So, stop trying to be a knight you were never meant to be. Walk away from that marriage, and go be the princess you always knew yourself to be. You will be a lot happier.
Quote from: Mavis on December 31, 2015, 04:13:25 PM
I have been following your threads now for sometime because for me you have been truly inspirational, I have refrained from replying because of a feeling of guilt due to my wife being understanding. I have to agree with Dena, you must move on, I too am a sensitive person and as she said trying to dominate her will only destroy you at your core.
Before I finally excepted myself our marriage was a constant battle ground that matched exactly what you describe of your current situation. The power struggle and arguments were superficial to the real underlying problem. She was a constant emotional abuser but in her defense it was because I hid my sensitivity and true self which would end in me digging my heals in and filling my heart full of rage.
I was consumed by it, exploding on her and my children on a regular basis. I myself didn't understand why I was so angry all the time, I hated the world, hated that she didn't hear my cries for help, I felt alone and that feeling only got worse when she had an affair with an ex of hers that she always fell back to when relationships failed.
She was my world, I had spent years giving her a life that many could only dream of, huge house, luxury vehicles, kids wonderland with their own private park. But that was all superficial making up for the unrest within. I remember saying to a friend when she began to wonder again, that it was like I had given her everything she ever wanted but I was the wrong person to fit in her perfect little picture. It's because I wasn't, I wasn't me.
While I did end up with a supporting wife after all was said and done, you and I have many similarities in what we have faced. You are just going through the path in reverse order and I can tell you from experience that is no way to live, it will bring you to such a dark place that you begin to question taking your own life.
I don't say this lightly but you need to leave her for both your sake and your children, have you thought about how things would have been if she was supportive? Do you feel that it could have somehow been an easier decision? My experience is that it is not, it helps with the freak factor to be so well accepted but it makes the decisions much more difficult in how it will affect your family going forward.
I see you constantly struggling with not going through with it to save your marriage but reality is your marriage is already gone and choosing to stay now will only put you in a place I lived in the last 5 years and I promise you what you are dealing with now is a cakewalk to what it will become.
Even if she had been accepting the struggle you face now of should I go through with it for the sake of saving your marriage would still be there and it wouldn't have been any easier. My wife says she feels that it would have been easier on me if she had not been understanding and turned into someone like your wife. (we talk about your story)
For me my truths are if I wasn't married, I would have already transitioned. I'm scared shirtless of what this will do to my children. I'm scared shirtless of losing my wife due to outside pressure or her not being attracted to me after my transition. She herself is scared of not being able to sexually please me or falling out of love with me. I know that I need to try to be the best me but what will the cost of doing so be? I pray that she too can find happiness after all is said and done but that might not be a reality. So do I transition and see how she feels and revert if she's not okay with it, then try to find a happy medium where we both can be somewhat happy? Or what if she's okay with it throughout the years and once SRS is complete she freaks out and its too late?
I truly feel you will be in a better place once you find it in yourself to move on and I hope that what I have written today can help you find peace with that decision. I just wanted to try and give back because your story has helped me come to terms with things more than you know.
Wow Mavis I would of never imagined that my story would help someone! I felt like I am actually becoming a nuisance with this whole thing getting nowhere.
Your story is in a way similar to mine.Although my wife did not cheat she was emotional abusive and I think that is where I started to really crack. She was trying to control every aspect of my life. As I am sitting here and assessing the past in a new year I realised that what she did she could not help it is just her nature that is whom she is. When I came out she could not control the dysphoria feelings like she tried controlling me. I felt if I was only one more item she owned that she could brag with by her friends! With me she was always two steps in front of her friends.
The problem is and all of knows this fact don't poke dysphoria with a stick it will bite you and the longer you poke the more irritated the lion gets that is if the lion can be tamed. The main thing with the lion is it has one owner and friend it trusts one "handler". Don't put another person in that cage he is in for ->-bleeped-<-. Sometimes the lion can have more than one handler and this is in your case a wonderful gift although the lion and the second handler had their struggle they manages to befriend the lion and be a handler it is not their lion but they assist with handling it. Then there is the "I want will control this lion for you step back type" This is when the lion gets upset and wants to rip that person to pieces and not only the person that cage it is in the handler can do what he wants to calm the lion the old methods the coping skills and this lion is upset.This is the wife that takes your problem and want to control it for you and tell you to step back and watch how she fix this. But by trying to fix it she gets frustrated because it wont go away! She start doing what she knows best to control you and the lion is just getting more upset. Then when she can't get control over your lion she moves on to your more vulnerable animals of yours to prove that she can tame them because she could not tame and handle your lion. The problem is this she rattles all the cages at the end and you sit with the animals in the state that she left them in.
The thing is once you are out you tell people you have a lion in that cage and everybody want to handle your lion. Same with don't feed the monkeys you will always get the person chucking food into the cage.
If I was not married or got married I would have also transitioned. I think if you have an accepting wife you are blessed. I can understand coming out to the kids and family is very stressful it also makes it very stressful for her. But at least you have someone to stand with you. All the things that you mentioned is a worry we had the same worries when she was "accepting".
The part that hurt me allot was that I gave her the same option of if you don't like what you see I will stop and revert if she wanted me to stop I would stop.
The unfair part is while I was on hormones she did not ask me to stop when I opened my eyes she was just jumping ship.
Why could she not just communicate with me and sat down with me and said honey I am not comfortable with this and you know the rest. Rather than setting of a chain of events to control me even though she did not want to be with me.
The strange part is I am sitting here and I can see her ways. The pattern of control is clear and I tested it the moment she lose power she gets upset and forceful and hurtful. She starts lashing out. Then she start breaking you down till there is nothing left of you.
My question is does she use divorce to intimidate me and control me that if she feels she does not do it I will transition?
She keeps on telling me don't have hope don't try I will decide if we can be something again. When I get hope she will break me down using emotional abusive ways until there is nothing left of me and walk away as if nothing happened. ???
Is this her way of gaining power again and possession? It lets me think of the the situation in some countries where the people have nothing no hope dreams nothing and that is the way the leaders wants it. If that people gain hope and start to see some light they are punished as traitors or whatever they are stripped of that hope. Because if people get too much hope they can lose control they can lose everything in there life. Because the people will overthrow the government. They see this as protecting themselves "this sounds so familiar". Is this the case what my marriage turned into her the dictator and me the people.
I don't know I really have to get to my therapist and speak to her about this.
Well, I'm not sure If I understood completely the whole thing, but as far as I can see it looks like she's really considering the possibility that sooner or later dysphoria is going to get out of her hands (and out of your hands) and you gonna be completing your transition somewhere in the future.
If she's educated about gender dysphoria she may know that usually sooner or later in most cases people affected by gd need to transition due to the dysphoria becoming unbearable with time. This may look like to her as a risk too high to be worth taken.
Also It is feasible that her perception about you changed in the past year due to your steps toward coping with the gd (hormones, coming out, etc). You can't blame her for that, and you have to keep in mind that this new idea she has about you may never gonna change for the better.
Sounds like she gave it a try, saw how it was, scared the hell of out of her, and now she's really considering that in the end the full transition is going to happen sooner or later and that she doesn't want it. Maybe she has not a plan yet. Also she must be thinking that time can play against her favor.
As others said, If I were you I'll be looking for a lawyer just to be prepared for the worst. Also I think its nice idea to cool yourself down. Usually best decisions come from a cold approach.
Best of luck.
Quote from: Wednesday on January 01, 2016, 06:45:22 AM
Well, I'm not sure If I understood completely the whole thing, but as far as I can see it looks like she's really considering the possibility that sooner or later dysphoria is going to get out of her hands (and out of your hands) and you gonna be completing your transition somewhere in the future.
If she's educated about gender dysphoria she may know that usually sooner or later in most cases people affected by gd need to transition due to the dysphoria becoming unbearable with time. This may look like to her as a risk too high to be worth taken.
Also It is feasible that her perception about you changed in the past year due to your steps toward coping with the gd (hormones, coming out, etc). You can't blame her for that, and you have to keep in mind that this new idea she has about you may never gonna change for the better.
Sounds like she gave it a try, saw how it was, scared the hell of out of her, and now she's really considering that in the end the full transition is going to happen sooner or later and that she doesn't want it. Maybe she has not a plan yet. Also she must be thinking that time can play against her favor.
As others said, If I were you I'll be looking for a lawyer just to be prepared for the worst. Also I think its nice idea to cool yourself down. Usually best decisions come from a cold approach.
Best of luck.
hi Wednesday
She is educated well in dyshoria and she mentioned it that she is afraid of me transitioning or flipping out in the future.The thing is I also tried to prove to her and my family that I am transgender.My therapist also told her I am transgender and that is not going to change.So the problem is her view of me is I am a woman.
She also mentioned that she don't like the idea of knowing that I would have always wanted to be a woman.
I believe her perception changed in the last year seeing as I started hormones wanted to transition. I started to dress like a woman around her. It all I will agree altered her perception of who I am.
The main thing is I have to give up one thing for another. I can't have my cake and eat it too.
But in this case I am out of control of the whole divorce thing it is her choice and I will respect it and move on with my life then. I don't know if my actions altered the whole foundation of the marriage and relationship beyond repair.
I think of sorts I have my dysphoria under control and I understand it I won't disagree that it catches me of guard now and then.
Quote from: Amoré on January 01, 2016, 07:01:08 AM
I don't know if my actions altered the whole foundation of the marriage and relationship beyond repair.
I'd say you actions have uncovered the reality of your relationship. You never truly knew her before.
Its easy to see the best in people when everything's going well, but I think you see the truth when its not.
Quote from: AnonyMs on January 01, 2016, 01:30:51 PM
I'd say you actions have uncovered the reality of your relationship. You never truly knew her before.
Its easy to see the best in people when everything's going well, but I think you see the truth when its not.
This can be true actually! When eveything was fine she was not this abusive. But when she could not control my gd she became very abusive and instead of fixing it she broke me down and made it worse for me to cope with it.
If this is the true her I just don't want to be with her and I am afraid that I we can get back together will she stop her abusive ways because she already learned to use them on me to manipulate me and stuff.
I tried my best to follow my new years resolution for the day and I think it went sort of okay I thought about transitioning a lot. The strange thing is I am battling to see myself as male. Especially with a new partner. This is the picture I have in my head and then I am like stop pause what was that? I don't really want to do the transition thing. I can try to change the picture but it is more a forced picture than a random thing poping into your head when you hear a song and get a picture in your head.
This was sort of okay I want to stay a man lets say it is a song about a love story and the guy is singing how he holds the girl my mind immediately puts me in the girl role without even thinking about it.
well the rest of the day was okay I confronted her about her abusive ways and she was shocked it looks if she really understands. I tried to focus on other things than my marriage and understand that I cannot control it. I think I did good.
Let me be honest I hurt like hell at this stage I am just doing what she is doing hiding it behind a mask so that she don't see it. I feel like I am dying inside but hopefully this feelings will pass. I am trying to focus on all the wonderful things of the year. If she divorce me transitioning. Maybe dating. I want to finish my degree in computer science. New work I don't know but the sadness of losing my family is clowding this whole picture. I guess it is over because we are living two seperated lives for five months now in different beds no hugs kisses intimacy. We are just like roommates or something that share a kid.
I am scared of losing it the day when I get my divorce letter so I thought maybe I should do the divorce work because I have clinical depression and that may be a major trigger that will disable me for days at least if I do the divorce I would be sort of in control of the whole thing and know she can't use it as n control mechanism on me. I would at least be able to say she did not chase me away I decided to end it.
This is the thing that I also saw she used divorce as a form of manipulation and then it got concrete and came and bit her in the arse. She did not want to tell her family we are getting divorced I lashed out the one day and told them all this sort of made it a thing
I don't know what is going to happen but maybe taking control out of her hands will give me some sort of peace and feel like I am controlling some aspect in my life. This also takes her main weapon out of her control
Hi Amore
My Heart goes out to you as this is a very difficult time in your life. No matter which way it goes there will be a lot of real hard times for both of you. Please try to keep your head up as hard as it may be. Think about it this way. there will be a time in your life that will be comfortable again as all the hard and bad will pass in time. Even If or when you and your wife split up over the years you will more than likely be able to communicate and even laugh about some of the crazy moments. Remember you have a precious little Daughter between you and that you will both have to be in her life. Don't break her. :'( as she is part of you both. Let her learn to love you each without the two of you fighting or badmouthing one and other. Always say good thing about your other half and Ask your daughter if she has been having fun with you and her. Don't ask her about your wifes relationships as that is wrong also. let it go and pick up your life. Live for the future not the past. My Blessing go to all of you. Please try to be kind to each other and it will make everyone life happier. The words I have just spoken are from my Heart. :angel:
Big Hug's To You
Lyndsey Marie
Dear Amore, in his book, The Divided Self, the noted psychoanalyst/psychiatrist R. D. Laing describes a process that can happen in the mind (especially of intelligent people) which he terms abstracting. This abstracting then forms a loop which leads a person to go nowhere (while they are in the loop) and also, the process is alienating (i.e. a person ends up separated from their true senses and emotions for a while and/or are confused about them all, with no clarity about their meaning in terms of the action/s they should take).
The reason this abstracting process causes this, Laing describes, is because when we abstract emotions, scenarios, events, dreams, desires, etc, as abstractions they lack a certain 'solidity' and realness (sense wise), which are the very qualities needed for us to make confident decisions in the first place. However, this is not the end point, rather, when a persons thoughts have become overly-abstracted, it is very easy for a person's thoughts to flip-flop right into their opposite, and then back again, and then back the other way again, in an endless frustrating and demoralising loop. White is as good as black one moment and the next, black is as good as white, etc. He does explain what he thinks is the very simple way out of this catch 22 situation, but first, a simple example illustrating the above.
Let us say, a young person is feeling extremely confused about what career path to take in life, so much so that they are quite paralysed by the situation. Yet at the same time, they are quite obsessed with ascertaining their 'one and only true vocation' - i.e. despite their confusion, ascertaining their true-vocation is the single most important thing to them and an obsession they can't stop thinking about. So much so, that week after week, their mind picks up on a certain vocation and runs with it completely: air-stewardess one week, then business person, then lawyer, then business owner, then nurse, then airline pilot, etc, etc. The dynamic is that their mind is profoundly taken by an 'idea' that seems to fit, but frustratingly each time (after a number of days), it either flips into it's opposite of not wanting to follow that career path, or it flips into something else. Laing explains that the end result, is that after many months, of this abstracting and flip-flopping a person can feel very lost and unclear about what path to pursue - which in a way, is so ironic given their inner commitment and dedication to divining that information in the first place!
Note, that it's not that at core this isn't a process which all of experience as part of ascertaining our way forward, but rather the particular degree of abstraction that takes place in the person at this particular time. As above, abstraction is one of the foundation stones of intelligence, philosophy, meta-pyhsical thinking, engineering, etc and this is why the process can sometimes (but usually temporarily) effect those with such qualities more.
The way out of the loop within the loop, isn't glamorous sounding (I'm afraid), but Laing explains that it is profoundly simple. He makes the case that to give overly-abstracted thoughts more realness and solidity, that a person has to start making very simple but practical actions in their life. For instance, in the example above with the airline pilot week, I believe Laing might suggest that the person begin writing to the airlines enquiring about training possibilities and what is required. Maybe then attending an exhibition - making contact with other pilots - go for one single short flying lesson now, rather than abstracting the process of whether to invest the next 5 years in hundreds/thousands of flying lessons! Whatever - as long as it is moving towards, solidifying or 'concretising' the abstractions and giving them more form in our minds. He describes that it is only in this process of concretisation (of abstractions) that we begin again to start having a natural sense of which direction we should go in - and once that natural sense starts to re-manifest, the natural courage to pursue what feels right also comes along too - automatically and/or the ability to let go of a certain direction, if during concretisation, it just doesn't feel right. For Laing, this process of concretisation is all to do with stopping the process of the minds endless flip-flopping - yes, no, no - yes - yes, no no - yes...!!! [Of course it's a given that in this process of concretisation, that we have to stay safe and care for ourselves.]
Though I hope this extremely brief exposition of one of Laing's concept/s will be of assistance to you, of course, I have no idea if it actually will be or not - but haha, I'm writing it out anyway. All I can report is that Laing's insight has been profoundly useful to me at times when I have got stuck in overly abstracting things (and paralysed by the minds flip-flopping) and as you mentioned you are doing computer science I am wondering if it might well be useful as I have a very technical/computer background as well.
Hi Kellie this is good advice.
I solidified it this morning by agreeing with her that we can get divorced even if it ripped my heart out and felt like someone jabbed me with a hot iron in there just doing damage. I explained to her that I want her to be happy but she must understand that I have to also be happy and this entitles treatment for me for my gd as I am not entitled to stay her husband or a man for her anymore then.
I told her I hope she find happiness and thanked her for all the nice times we had together and that she married me and for my child. I will try my best to turn around and walk away even though my heart wants to go racing back and try to save it I know I have no say she wants out and the sooner I accept this fact and try to let go the faster I can get back to my life and what she sees as her life.
I never thought it would come to this 3 years back. I did not plan on transitioning when I told her I had dysphoria and my actions of forcing her to accept me and she trying to take my problem and fix it for me only ended in disaster with two people heart broken. I made my bed I have to sleep in it. A stupid mixture of events led up to this and I don't know why life is pushing me in the direction. I did not choose any of this I can only choose to work with things I can control. I can't control having dysphoria I can choose taking treatment to help with it. This is my choice then to be free.
It helps to say "I AM GETTING DIVORCED" it solidifies the idea in my head.Instead of trying to say I don't want to get divorced and I want to save it. I hope there is real happiness after this life that I have led as a man. I really hope being my authentic self is worth it all this pain and suffering. I don't want to hurt my next partner whoever that may be I don't really feel that being a man was a facade sometimes I tried to force myself to be manly that was a facade but being a man was just part of me. Now it is time to be what I felt I should have been all my life.
Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 01:05:20 AM
I feel like I am caught in a tornado and I am just going round and round doing the same stupid motions each day :-\
I feel like I am going nowhere in life sitting with a marriage that is hopeless due to a spouse that was the best thing that ever happened to me and that I thought was a gift from God in my life to I don't even know how to describe her anymore. She made it clear all road that she is leaving open is one where I walk away out of her life.
I feel this is unfair because how do you love someone for 10 years and decide O you have dysphoria you are not worthy of me anymore! You can stay a man but you are not worthy because you cant be a provider also and buy me everything other men can. She was happy with who I was for 10 years.
Then begs the question why did she take my dysphoria in the first place and made it her battle? I tracked all the events of this past year from that I came out and realised the moment I came out I gave the dysphoria meaning I made it concrete! Also be very careful that your wife does not take your dysphoria and make it her problem and want to fight it for you!
It is a disaster waiting to happen. We had a fight this morning and I mentioned this to her. Now she wants to go to couples counceling. But I am so hurt by her that I feel I can't continue anymore I want to just go and live on my own island in peace. Is this going to be the rest of my life fighting no respect at all! I can't see that she will ever respect me anymore. She is telling me it is not fair for my child that I wanted to be a woman. Well it is not fair also getting divorced. But is it fair growing up in a house where both parents is unhappy then. I can cope with having dysphoria but will I really be happy in any direction? I don't think so really.
She hurt me so badly I feel that I want to end it no matter how bad it hurts walking away. Take the beating of becoming a woman and get it over and done with and find someone that appreciates me for me and not. She will never accept me for being me. She will never accept the dysphoria. She will never be happy or truly happy.Is this why I am taking this beating because she is unhappy ?
im in the same boat i have been married 7years this year. My wife and i have a son together as well. What i had to realize is if someone wants to be with there other half they will do whatever it takes. My wife told me she would not agree with me transitioning into a woman she married a man. so if i go through with it shes gonna leave. After that i went two whole weeks without wearing any female clothing. It felt like I was basically punishing myself to make her happy. So in turn I thought to myself about the pros and cons. Ill be giving up my position as a President of a club that i have been with for about 6 years. On top of that those that i hold closest to my heart my wife and son. You only het one life why not do what makes you happy. If doing things that make you happy makes other people unhappy then tou have to ask yourself be miserable or be happy?
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 04:58:37 AM
I solidified it this morning by agreeing with her that we can get divorced
What was her reaction to being told this? I think how she reacts to getting what she wants could be revealing as to her intentions. If she is as relieved as you then all this bad behaviour may just have been how she deals with bad news. If she tries to back-track and say she does not want the divorce then I would view that (and her past behaviour) as vindictive and controlling.
Quote from: pyhxbp on January 03, 2016, 07:26:32 AM
What was her reaction to being told this? I think how she reacts to getting what she wants could be revealing as to her intentions. If she is as relieved as you then all this bad behaviour may just have been how she deals with bad news. If she tries to back-track and say she does not want the divorce then I would view that (and her past behaviour) as vindictive and controlling.
Well she was sort emotionless she sat there and told me it is fine. Thank you half sarcastic. Then she said she don't want to hurt me anymore. That was that. I told her actually that she is blaming me for divorcing. I told her that this is not the case I don't want to get divorced. But if she must carry it through now because if she does not want to work with me get it done with.
Quote from: crazycool86 on January 03, 2016, 06:01:49 AM
My wife told me she would not agree with me transitioning into a woman she married a man
...
Ill be giving up my position as a President of a club that i have been with for about 6 years.
Why? I am fairly sure that your club did not think they were marrying a man ;D
I was in an all-male club and I thought that transition and membership would be incompatible as it was a macho environment. I was completely wrong.
Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 07:29:25 AM
Well she was sort emotionless she sat there and told me it is fine. Thank you half sarcastic. Then she said she don't want to hurt me anymore. That was that.
I would take it as a genuine comment then and hope she lives up to it.
Quote from: pyhxbp on January 03, 2016, 07:30:59 AM
I would take it as a genuine comment then and hope she lives up to it.
If she doesn't I will file for divorce. Because even if I don't want to get divorced I can't see myself living in this situation.
Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 07:35:04 AM
If she doesn't I will file for divorce. Because even if I don't want to get divorced I can't see myself living in this situation.
Is there a reason you want her to initiate the divorce? I know you do not
want to divorce but there is a world of difference between
want and
need. For example, I did not want to transition, but I needed to do it.
Quote from: pyhxbp on January 03, 2016, 07:39:51 AM
Is there a reason you want her to initiate the divorce? I know you do not want to divorce but there is a world of difference between want and need. For example, I did not want to transition, but I needed to do it.
At this stage I had a change of heart if I can put it like that I am fed up. She said she wanted to file for divorce so I am giving her the time. I need to divorce her because of my own menthol health being emotionally abused for just being transgender even if I stay a man. Also seeing as my child is in the crossfire. I also don't want to transition but I need to.I don't think the abuse will stop because she have like a transgender radar. O you like this shirt because it is a little more feminine even if you just like the shirt you will always be judged. I need to do it or her sake because she is always going to be insecure.
Also my whole life is on hold and dangling in uncertainty while she is playing her game. I resisted divorce but I am tired of being played with. So the easiest way to end it all is stop resisting.
If this is such a major problem in my current marriage is it going to be repeated in a second relationship having a spouse walk out, abuse me emotionally because I could not make it go away. So I need to transition even if I don't want to just to be save.
Yes, in the final analysis it is up to us to save ourselves.
Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 07:50:18 AM
If this is such a major problem in my current marriage is it going to be repeated in a second relationship...
Dear Amore,
I'd say, not necessarily at all.
From reading your latest responses, I was a touch surprised, (if divorce is now acknowledged as the most likely path forward), not to see mention of plans to immediately begin discussing and making arrangements to separate and live separately. Personally, I see the actual legal divorce as the simpler bit of the process, as in essence, as long as a fixed set of guidelines is followed - it has a guaranteed legal outcome.
Often-times more challenging and complex, is the teasing apart of two interlinked lives (speaking of the two individuals joined by marriage), especially financially and in respect to accommodation.
My own personal view (that may or not have any relevance to your circumstances) is that in the vast majority of such situations, continuing to live under the same roof, is asking for 'trouble'. For example, (speaking in terms of the 3rd person) it may likely lead to more temptation for an individual to give up plans that are desperately important to them (in essence compromising themselves). Also, rather than the potentially most complex and challenging aspect of things being dealt with first (and 'getting it out of the way'), it will mean instead that such challenges will always have to be dealt with in the future.
I suspect that when you do leave (presuming you do separate), you will feel a huge burden lifted off of your shoulders, and that you consequently experience a great sense of relief. I personally do not believe there is any reason to take on a belief that the next few years will be difficult and miserable. Whether married or not, when I have been in love with a person, I have always found separation particularly difficult, if not a traumatic process - though have always have found myself surprised as to how simple things were when we did eventually 'go our own separate ways'. As an explanation for this, I have repeatedly settled on the possibility that it was because I did all my 'emotional leaving' before the actual event of separation itself, but just that I had never realised it.
From all that you have described, my intuition informs me that your wife does love you at core, and in many ways (in her own imperfect human way) she is trying to make things easier for you, by giving you the opportunity to leave in your own space and time and in your own way. Of course (unfortunately) we mostly all lose our tempers at times and say things, and behave in ways, we later regret.
However, when you wrote that you will wait for your wife to initiate the divorce, I personally experienced (through my own fallible filters of perception) that somehow you might be putting the job of managing the separation back on your wife's shoulders.
I believe the conventional path of separation first, followed by divorce some approx two years later - with financial discussions taking place in the period in-between (hopefully on an amicable basis) is a process that has been shown over time to be the most viable one.
One also has to factor in the very important (if not vital) dynamic of: 'Out of sight, out of mind' - i.e. that the act of initial separation is of particular psychological importance for the individuals involved, because them not experiencing each other on a daily basis, generally helps them to let go of each over time. 'Out of sight, out of mind' is just a very natural part of healing and getting ourselves back together again.
much love,
Kellie
Quote from: kellie5 on January 04, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
Dear Amore,
I'd say, not necessarily at all.
From reading your latest responses, I was a touch surprised, (if divorce is now acknowledged as the most likely path forward), not to see mention of plans to immediately begin discussing and making arrangements to separate and live separately. Personally, I see the actual legal divorce as the simpler bit of the process, as in essence, as long as a fixed set of guidelines is followed - it has a guaranteed legal outcome.
Often-times more challenging and complex, is the teasing apart of two interlinked lives (speaking of the two individuals joined by marriage), especially financially and in respect to accommodation.
My own personal view (that may or not have any relevance to your circumstances) is that in the vast majority of such situations, continuing to live under the same roof, is asking for 'trouble'. For example, (speaking in terms of the 3rd person) it may likely lead to more temptation for an individual to give up plans that are desperately important to them (in essence compromising themselves). Also, rather than the potentially most complex and challenging aspect of things being dealt with first (and 'getting it out of the way'), it will mean instead that such challenges will always have to be dealt with in the future.
I suspect that when you do leave (presuming you do separate), you will feel a huge burden lifted off of your shoulders, and that you consequently experience a great sense of relief. I personally do not believe there is any reason to take on a belief that the next few years will be difficult and miserable. Whether married or not, when I have been in love with a person, I have always found separation particularly difficult, if not a traumatic process - though have always have found myself surprised as to how simple things were when we did eventually 'go our own separate ways'. As an explanation for this, I have repeatedly settled on the possibility that it was because I did all my 'emotional leaving' before the actual event of separation itself, but just that I had never realised it.
From all that you have described, my intuition informs me that your wife does love you at core, and in many ways (in her own imperfect human way) she is trying to make things easier for you, by giving you the opportunity to leave in your own space and time and in your own way. Of course (unfortunately) we mostly all lose our tempers at times and say things, and behave in ways, we later regret.
However, when you wrote that you will wait for your wife to initiate the divorce, I personally experienced (through my own fallible filters of perception) that somehow you might be putting the job of managing the separation back on your wife's shoulders.
I believe the conventional path of separation first, followed by divorce some approx two years later - with financial discussions taking place in the period in-between (hopefully on an amicable basis) is a process that has been shown over time to be the most viable one.
One also has to factor in the very important (if not vital) dynamic of: 'Out of sight, out of mind' - i.e. that the act of initial separation is of particular psychological importance for the individuals involved, because them not experiencing each other on a daily basis, generally helps them to let go of each over time. 'Out of sight, out of mind' is just a very natural part of healing and getting ourselves back together again.
much love,
Kellie
Thank you Kellie it sometimes help to get the perspective of another person on things. She sees us as separated already it makes it difficult living under one roof unfortunately I have no wear to go that is near by at this stage or family that is willing to help me out.
Hi Girls
Very seriously I was thinking of opening a house for lost M+F souls so we could have a place to go and work things out when we are so lost and devastated we could all work together and help each other. It is such a hard choice to come out like we have and we need this kind of place. If anyone thinks this is a good idea please notify me by PM.
Hug's
Lyndsey
Quote from: Lyndsey on January 04, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Hi Girls
Very seriously I was thinking of opening a house for lost M+F souls so we could have a place to go and work things out when we are so lost and devastated we could all work together and help each other. It is such a hard choice to come out like we have and we need this kind of place. If anyone thinks this is a good idea please notify me by PM.
Hug's
Lyndsey
Great idea! Make it so #1 :D
Yes I want to try to do something
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looks like my wife is filing for divorce today :'( It feels like a selfish thing to do from her side.
I will rather not raise my opinions on divorce I am going to go through one and I don't like it. So I am going to join the famous I am divorced club.
I haven't got a choice really. I just feel like a failure as a parent. The funny thing is me and my wife don't really fight we get along well. I will sit and then ask her look at this what we have we are laughing together we are having fun our kid is running around and is happy and then I ask her why do you want to destroy this. The reason you want to divorce is stupid in my opinion.
But what can I do. It is just sad really. She feels like she want to start a new life and my child is going to be happier in two homes than one. Do she really believe that! You may get a do over start new but your child don't get a new childhood!
I just think it is selfish. But it is not my choice really I was on the verge of just doing it because I was tired of not getting her cooperation in fixing things. Whatever her story truly is I will never know.
She did file for divorce. :'(
Quote from: Amoré on January 05, 2016, 06:25:50 AM
I will sit and then ask her look at this what we have we are laughing together we are having fun our kid is running around and is happy....
As much as you are feeling the pain of this announcement I hope you will also consider that you have time to recover and still have years of opportunity to be a great parent with a happy kid. You may even find yourself with a friend, you can eventually laugh with again. Your heartfelt anguish is sadly too familiar territory around here. So sorry.
Filed? Or, went to a lawyer to?
Be proactive, as to protect your arse no matter how much you may feel otherwise. Go immediately to a lawyer before you (figuratively) loose your balls. At the very least do it as soon as you are served.
Please Do Not Be the Victim. YOU are the aggrieved party here. She has bad NO EFFORT towards reconciliation.
BTW - You can also counter-sue
She did it with some sort of online company.
I am getting almost all the furniture all my belongings and the investments get split 50/50. I just don't agree with child support as I don't know what my salary is going to be at this stage.
What is making me truly mad is the fact that she is under the impression that she can still control my future. She is telling me if I transition it will hurt the child more than divorce.
I really don't want to divorce I don't know there is people that changes their minds in the divorce process but don't know if she is one of them. It is sorts if a went from denial to anger in the grief stages I am so angry I haven't got any other emotions except it.
It is the death of my marriage and she murdered it.
Quote from: JoanneB on January 05, 2016, 09:10:24 PM
Filed? Or, went to a lawyer to?
Be proactive, as to protect your arse no matter how much you may feel otherwise. Go immediately to a lawyer before you (figuratively) loose your balls. At the very least do it as soon as you are served.
Please Do Not Be the Victim. YOU are the aggrieved party here. She has bad NO EFFORT towards reconciliation.
BTW - You can also counter-sue
This is essential . . . no kidding. It can't wait.
Rachel
Quote from: Amoré on January 06, 2016, 12:04:11 AM
I really don't want to divorce I don't know there is people that changes their minds in the divorce process but don't know if she is one of them.
...It is the death of my marriage and she murdered it.
Sometimes, for sure. I was of the understanding that the reason the divorce process is 'stretched out' over a period of time, is to give all involved plenty of time for reflection.
I've been thinking of the following, over the last few days, in connection with your posts. It's related to what the psychoanalyst Erich Fromm writes in his short book
The Art of Loving. Fromm makes the point, that it is fundamentally impossible to force or coerce another to genuinely love us. However, in spite of this obvious truth, Fromm considers this a fact most fail to fully comprehend and/or factor into their thinking or emotions, despite it being as immutable a law as that of gravity.
Therefore, there is only ever the possibility of eliciting love for ourselves (in another) via such factors (for example) as the development of our character, the consideration, empathy and care we are able to give to others, the level of our overall courage especially in regards to seeking out our own destiny and overcoming obstacles, etc.
Of course, even then, we might not fit another persons imagination, fantasy or intuition about what they are seeking for themselves, and so, even though love may be genuinely elicited in them, they still might not want to be or remain in a close union with ourselves. The latter being one of the psychological and emotional risks of entering into a relationship with someone.
I've always found Fromm's perspective to be profoundly invaluable, as it is the opposite of the inclination to always want or demand to 'know' how much another loves us and/or holding them responsible for not doing so. There's a huge freedom and a letting-go in the perspective as well. It's a very decent book (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/192-8948918-3600553?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=fromm+-+the+art+of+loving), imo and worth a read. Only takes a day.