Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm a post op M2F.  One distinct memory I have is my ex protesting to me, regarding continuing our relationship: "No, I'm not a lesbian."  It occurs to me that the following NEGATIVE RESPONSES are possible when transsexuals ask others for a date:

M2F asking for a date from a GG             "No, I'm not a lesbian!"
F2M asking for a date from a GG             "No, I'm not a lesbian!"


M2F asking for a date from a GM             "No, I'm not gay!"
F2M asking for a date from a GM             "No, I'm not gay!"

In truth, when I date I often feel insecure about the sexual preference of who I'm dating.  It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it's hard to shake.  It's a bit like Woody Allen's line, "I wouldn't want to be part of a group that would have me as a member."  Is the man I'm dating really a gay man -- is that why he's dating me?  Because he sees me as a guy?  Or is the girl I'm dating really dating me because she sees me as a guy?

It gets confusing.

Teri Anne

Yeah, I know what you mean Teri. I'm nervous about dating because I don't have the bottom bits, so not sure about straight women - would they see me as male? Don't want to date a lesbian whose identity would be in crisis. I'm hoping to run across a nice, sane, bisexual woman who isn't going to care about what my gender does to her identity.

Dennis

That's the spirit. We exist out here somewhere, though I'm thinking 'sane' is a relative term ^*giggles*

But more to the topic of the thread that is an interesting point that I hadn't really considered. But then I have no plans to do anything regarding relationships for roughly 6 years as I want to be sure I'm totally me without any baggage and I want to be totally comfortable with who I am before I start trying to find someone who likes me.

All valid points and as I found out the other day whilst in the hospital, there are some people that will be attracted to you because of being gendered in one way or another. The story: A nice good looking first year nurse came rushing up to me while my wife was having blood taken, she didnt know I was married and she began to be flirtatious and seemed very excited by the fact that I was the only one there who was a pre-op (she for some reason could tell) I was polite and said hello and she could not take her eyes off me (very uncomfortable). So I began to think, why all of a sudden do strange people come up to me because I am the way I am and think the world will change (I am not gay nor lesbian) bi, but I thought how does she see me and how does she she herself. There we have it back to the self doubt, it is all very confusing.  Now,this girl may have also been trying to be friendly but then why all the staring. I have met many girls who accept me for who I am and they have not ever carried on  like that.

I can see the problem with dating, good thing I already have someone.


Sara.

Dennis.

Don't start throwing rocks, let me explain.

I would never consider dating you.  Two very simple reasons too.  If I did that would be invalidating your gender.   #1 --You are a man, I see you as a man, #2-- I don't date men.

I respect your rights as a man (gender) no matter what the sex (anatomy) is.

This is not a reflection on you but a reflection on me.  I have quite a few men acquaintences, even ones that are very good looking, even pretty dam hot.  I'm a lesbian not dead.  Coffee absolutely, a beer oh yea.  A romantic type date, my tennis shoes are smoking I'm headed out the door so fast.

Leigh

(=
Kind of as I mentioned elsewhere. The world is comprised of all kinds; some of us like the weirdest things and around it goes. Part of that around is what people don't like, or aren't comfortable with. There are so many different reasons for it all. As I see it, it is not worth worrying about when someone doesn't like you for some reason or other... Each to their own and all that. So, if they see me as something they don't like, well, it's a shame but it's their prerogative too.

After SRS, I dated both men and women but, perhaps unusually, have chosen not to have sex (er, penatration).  I'm sure that several of the men would have been interested.  I've given oral sex to a few but, given STD and aids risks, never felt the need warranted the risk.  I know many TS's want to 'try it out" but I just haven't been that motivated.  Part of the problem was that I was not orgasmic for about a year after SRS and so figured, what's the use?  A few tried to stimulate me but I quickly bored of that figuring nothing was going to happen.

I dated both men and women because I felt I owed it to myself to try to see what I like.  I was never much into dating when I was growing up but, after SRS, in the body of a woman, I felt more comfortable and confident.  At first, I stressed with both men and women that I wanted to be friends, and see what developed.  I figured that would take the tension out of first meets.  I found that people are very much into coupling and not so much into making new friends.  Women took my word that I just wanted to be friends but men just thought I was just talking and they made advances anyway.

In dating both men and women, I tried NOT telling them I was TS at first.  The minute I told them of my past, I noticed things changed...women would begin pointing out to me things they felt were male or female -- gee, just what I wanted to hear.  When I was a stranger, they presumed I was female.  It made me not want to tell them.  But eventually, of course, I did.

One thing I noticed in dating men (aside from them being more aggressive) was that their shaved faces hurt my face when we kissed.  Alll those little hairs were like needles pearcing my now hairess face (due to electro) and making it red.  I wondered why heterosexual women liked kissing men when, for me, it was a somewhat painful experience.  My ex said, "You didn't grow up kissing men so you never learned to like it."  It made no sense to me.  I've, on rare occassions, read about some heterosexual women who like hairless men (like swimmers).  If I was a heterosexual woman, I think I'd prefer that, too.  The Don Johnson stubbly beard --- UGGHH!  What pain!

I eventually stopped dating men because I found that (1) I wasn't that attracted to them and (2) it seemed like I could get killed if I dated the wrong man.  Also, a man I dated complained of my love of hugging and being close -- He said, "I'm not a teddy bear!'  One thing I've enjoyed a lot is hugging and being close -- women I've dated seem more atuned to that.

I haven't dated in about a year - I stopped dating when dating services started charging monthly fees.  I do miss having someone close.  My best friend is good for hugs but a special lifelong companion would, of course, be the ideal.

We'll see.  Maybe tomorrow.

Teri Anne

> "You didn't grow up kissing men so you never learned to like it."

^*shrug*
Simple fact of the matter, stubble hurts. My Dad has always had a beard and when I was younger I used to kiss him on the cheek... I didn't do that for long because every time I did it hurt :P

Conclusion, beards are prickly!

Quote from: Leigh on January 24, 2006, 09:19:38 PM
Dennis.

Don't start throwing rocks, let me explain.

I would never consider dating you.  Two very simple reasons too.  If I did that would be invalidating your gender.   #1 --You are a man, I see you as a man, #2-- I don't date men.

I respect your rights as a man (gender) no matter what the sex (anatomy) is.

This is not a reflection on you but a reflection on me.  I have quite a few men acquaintences, even ones that are very good looking, even pretty dam hot.  I'm a lesbian not dead.  Coffee absolutely, a beer oh yea.  A romantic type date, my tennis shoes are smoking I'm headed out the door so fast.

Leigh

I very much appreciate that, Leigh. That is another reason I wouldn't want to date a lesbian. I would be concerned that she wasn't seeing me as a man if I did.

But ya coulda said I was hot dammit :P

Dennis

Oh yes Teri Anne I am on your channel. Those hairs are disgustingly sharp, even the hairs on guys legs feel enough for me to say, heres a razor go and shave them and then return to me.

Kissing was very uncomfortable for me (with a male) as my timing was a bit out and they (men) are so agressive and we seem to clash teeth evrytime they first make an advance (it was like they were pile driving my head through the canvas) Like you, I have decided to stop having sex (ho hum) My wife is disabled so I have not been intimate with her at all since the accident in 2000 (just incase some think I cheat on my wife, I dont) but have discussed it with her and she says that I should be happy so go do whatever but I am not like that. The boy thing was before we got married.

Health first, Heart second and sex third. Now whats on TV tonight???

Sara.

The very first TS I ever met was a FtM in about 1965 (before I knew there were more than just two of us in the world and before SRS was even a remote possibility). I was about 16 and he was 19. We talked about how being a FtM and a MtF in a relationship would be about the best that could happen in a pre-SRS world  ;D

Funny thing about men and facial hair - both my husbands wore beards! No whisker burn but it can be ticklish!

Quote from: Northern Jane on January 25, 2006, 07:42:10 AM...
We talked about how being a FtM and a MtF in a relationship would be about the best that could happen in a pre-SRS world  ;D
...

Or post op really.

My blank slate no experience take says a FTM&MTF couple should be a pretty good match. Of course it depends massively on the people, preferences and so on but details (=

You are right Kimberly, who better to understand than a "mirror image".

After much heartache I decided to go back to not dating.  I tend to attract straight guys and lesbian women and both have issues with being attracted to me and of course sex is never a possibility, even if they are willing because I am not.

Since SRS is a pipe dream that I cannot afford, my last sexual encounter about ten years ago is just that, my last.

I do have a couple of people I can cuddle with but the problem with that is it reminds me of how empty my life is so I eventually have to stop doing that.

LostinTime
Your post is so sad :(  I read your posts & I can tell you are a kind & decent person.  Your life should not be empty, people need people. 
And, people need you as much as you need them - please don't give up & withdraw

Hang in there :)  what is that saying -  Nil Carberundum (if I spelt it right)

rana :)

Thank you for the kind words.  :)

Oh I do have friends, a few at least.  Hanging out with them and one in particular tends to eat up all of the white space in my life.  The only thing is that I do not have that special someone and I have found out that since I am not willing to be sexually intimate with someone then they are not interested.

Also I do not have that big drive to be social.  It took my therapist giving me grief to even start going out into the world a bit more.  She suggested a book club, I ended up in the leather crowd.  ;)

Quote from: LostInTime on January 27, 2006, 09:49:14 AM


  She suggested a book club, I ended up in the leather crowd. ;)

Book club-leather crowd....The market Place series.  Makes sense to me.  A member of my family was a contributer to #7.

I think I am one of the few in the local crowd that has not read the series.  Of course it is almost always checked out from the educational group.  It took me a year before I could borrow `Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns'.

Very cool about the family member.   ;D

Of course it has been interesting being in the leather community.  Many of the people seem to be in it just for the kinky sex.  I do not do the sex thing but am fortunate enough to know enough people where it does not have to be just about sex so that leaves me a variety of people to Top and/or submit to right now (yes, yes.....damn Switches <G>).  trying to date within the community has the same issues as I stated before plus it can be a bit more complicated, especially since I am a Switch and rather new.

I think it depends on where you are.  One town that I have gone to play parties at, sex seems to very common whereas here its not as prevelant.  I don't know about the pan or mens parties, they are just to strange for me.

The Leather community, especially the pan groups, are probably the most accepting of any group.  We are the true minority of a minority.   Seems no one wants to play with us  >:D

Leigh, you mentioned, "Seems like no one wants to play with us."

To that, I'd add, the wrong people want to play with us.  I think many TS's just want to feel normal, average.  Before transition, we know we're anything but.  The discovery, for some of us, is that being "normal" is difficult to achieve after transition.  I once dated a guy who didn't know my past.  He had been married and divorced.  He owned his own company and had a wonderful way of talking in a mellow, intelligent, calming manner.  In many ways, he seemingly was a "catch" in any hetero woman's book

I was in his bed one morning and noticed a dresser drawer was slightly open.  It was only a foot away from the bed and curiosity made me peek in.  Inside the drawer, were pictures of a TG without clothes on in various sexy poses.  "She" had sexy women's nightwear on but a penis was quite visible.  I was shocked.  I thought I was dating a heterosexual man.  In talking to him about it, I found that I was part of a line of TG's that he'd dated.

My worst fear had been realized -- I was dating a man who LIKED the fact that I used to be a man.  He found them more interesting than "regular" women.  While that might be so, it was a big crush to my ego.  I was post op and had thought I was past people "reading" me.   I'd heard of the term, "->-bleeped-<- lovers," and I presume had found one.  My ex, in one of her critical moments, theorized that this man sought people like me because "real" women didn't want him -- though he was a catch in many ways, he was also very overweight -- probably 260 pounds.

In many ways, he was very nice to me  I ate some very expensive meals at posh Pasadena restaurants.  We'd tour architecture (my hobby).  His downfall was the above and the fact that he, one time, refused to apologize for being an hour late for a meet at a restaurant.  I'd driven through heavy rush hour traffic only to wait alone in the restaurant.  I didn't like being a woman alone in a restaurant.  His response -- "I never apologize."

He sensed my anger and never called me again.  I miss his mellow voice but admit it was a disappointing sad point in my life.

Teri Anne

NNNNOOOO Teri  Anne

I was refering to the Leather community.  I have had no problem finding someone to play with-no matter how you define play with

Because  many women tend to view physical play as abuse, consensual or not, we are not the poster children for conforminity and femeninism.  There seems to be a defenite schism between the vanilla and the Leather community where you either are a part of one or the other.  In this one aspect I am a switch.  I have a defenite set of friends on one side and Family on the other--and neither the twain shall mix.

You mentioned a past friend in the context of possibly being a "->-bleeped-<- lover".   This is just my own personal theory but:  I thnk that many who are like that are gay men in denial.  In their minds they can be with either a pre or post woman and not be seen as gay while in reality they are attracted to what they know the person was or is.  My theory, no basis in fact.  But then, I have never been with a man so what the heck do I know?  My thinking is that if I don't have one on me and I sure as hell don't want one in me.

Being late is bad enough but to refuse to say "sorry"  WTH is up with that? 

Leigh

This is a great topic, I'm enjoying reading it.  I've been thinking about some of the dating problems that I could encounter as well.  However the only problem that comes to mind is "My Spouse" :)

Steph

Teri Anne, you are too good for someone like that. I bet you could get a nice boy if you tried, one that has the decency to say sorry and apologize for being an hour late (thats rude). You are simply not someones number. As for leather ARE WE TALKING STRAPS that kinda thing, cause that seems a little kinky. Book clubs on the other hand I can handle. I used to love to read call of the wild.

Dating could arise for me in the future as I am now having some problems with my wife and I guess I ask myself who would want to have this old thing as messed up as I am.

Sara.

I am very sorry to hear that Sara. ^*comfort*

Quote from: Sara on January 29, 2006, 01:30:28 AM
  As for leather ARE WE TALKING STRAPS that kinda thing, cause that seems a little kinky. 

One persons kink is someone elses vanilla.

Stephanie,
   Your post, thinking about dating, one problem my spouse. I never even considered the dating scene. My wife and I decided long ago that was a scene that we never wanted to travel. I have, in a person, all that I want and will ever need. I know the intimacy is not there as far as sex is, but we have the love and admiration of each other. We are very close and to think of dating another is not in our realm of thinking. So, to us, my spouse is not a problem. She is not lesbian and I don't have a particular label attached to me, nor do I want one.
Sheila

Quote from: Sheila on January 29, 2006, 11:21:00 AM
Stephanie,
   Your post, thinking about dating, one problem my spouse. I never even considered the dating scene. My wife and I decided long ago that was a scene that we never wanted to travel. I have, in a person, all that I want and will ever need. I know the intimacy is not there as far as sex is, but we have the love and admiration of each other. We are very close and to think of dating another is not in our realm of thinking. So, to us, my spouse is not a problem. She is not lesbian and I don't have a particular label attached to me, nor do I want one.
Sheila

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto.

I was just trying to be funny :)

It would seem that we are in a very similar.  She has also told me that she is not a lesbian and that's that.   However we have often spoken about there being a chance that we may separate in the future.  We are unable to satisfy each other intimately, so we have been honest with each other and know that should a person comes along who can, we may have to revisit our situation (her idea).  After how my wife has stood by me, supported me, and loved me all these years it's the least I could do.

We have no plans of ever separating, just growing old together :)

Steph

My spouse isn't a lesbian either.  She doesn't feel that sex is that important, but since we are assuming the role of sisters, I wouldn't tell her she can't have sex with someone else.  That doesn't seem reasonable.  I haven't thought much about it but my spouse is convinced I'm going to want a "test drive" post-op.  Hmm, don't know about that.  I think it's possible we'll remain celibate but our unspoken agreement seems to be "don't ask, don't tell".

Dawn

Quote from: Dennis on January 24, 2006, 12:43:16 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean Teri. I'm nervous about dating because I don't have the bottom bits, so not sure about straight women - would they see me as male? Don't want to date a lesbian whose identity would be in crisis. I'm hoping to run across a nice, sane, bisexual woman who isn't going to care about what my gender does to her identity.

Dennis

Well dang, Dennis !  I meet most of your requirements (the 'sane' part is questionable) but you are just too far away....  Guess we'll never know what could have been  ;D .....   Incidentally, if we were to date, you'd be my boyfriend..... 

Quote from: Valerie on January 29, 2006, 09:20:41 PM
Well dang, Dennis !  I meet most of your requirements (the 'sane' part is questionable) but you are just too far away....  Guess we'll never know what could have been  ;D .....   Incidentally, if we were to date, you'd be my boyfriend..... 

<sends flowers to Valerie long distance>

Dennis

Quote from: Teri Anne on January 28, 2006, 03:11:59 PM
My worst fear had been realized -- I was dating a man who LIKED the fact that I used to be a man.  He found them more interesting than "regular" women.  While that might be so, it was a big crush to my ego.

Y'know, I've thought about this statement, Teri Anne.  I think I would have dumped the guy for the "I never apologise" attitude, and for the fact he was hiding his interest in T-women.

But what if a guy is upfront about being turned on by T-women, and also seems genuinely interested in you as YOU, not just as a T-woman?  I can't say for certain yet (ask me again in 3 years, assuming then I'm at least a year beyond GRS,) but I believe I'd appreciate the honesty, and that that honesty might mitigate the fact he's a bit of a (pardon the expression) '->-bleeped-<--lover'.

Seems the most improtant ingredients in a sexually intimate relationship are honesty, openness, and communication.  If those are there, the rest can be negotiated.

Haz

What's to love?

Quite a lot, I think. To survive we've had to endure more than most. The phrase "takes a licken and keeps on ticken" might be deemed appropriate. (Timex commercial circa 1980s as I recall).

There is something to admire in a strong spirit, for that matter I always have been attracted to the self-made, spirited, self-assured, etc. woman. I suppose it is amusing I am turning into the type of woman I've always admired. Anyway, I can see the logic, or at least I think I can.

Still dating is such a foreign thing to me, perhaps I haven't a clue.

Just a little off topic but.

QuoteTimex commercial circa 1980s as I recall

1960's actually. I remember one of the first commercials using that line where they strapped a Timex to a skiers ski at the ski jump at the.., I think it was 1964 Winter Olympics.

Cassie

Thanks Kimberly, she just got a little scared like me I guess. The GP has made an urgent appointment with the therapist on Feb 14 (Valentines Day), They both agree that is is time for action and now I am feeling like I should never had said anything and Im so nervous about the appointment.

My wife mentioned about dating men and my interest in them and I said to her I had no sexual fantasies about males nor did I want to persue a male relationship after the surgery but to be truthful who knows what I will feel like after it, sore no doubt.

On a lighter note, I picked up a great turtle neck jumper (brown) to go with my nice flared pants, my wife commented that if she was skinnier she would borrow them and how nice I looked in them (That really made my day).

Sara.

Sara, I have found that some people change their sexual orientation and some don't. I don't know if it was there all along, but some change. I know for me is that I find women attractive, but have no inclinations as to follow the menu. I love my wife and have no desire to go out on her. As for men, I thought at first I might get attracted to them, but the more I talk to them the more I'm turned off to even haveing a relationship with one of them. No offense to the guys here, just part of my back ground. Even though my wife and I are not intimate in a sexual way, I don't have any desires for another relationship with anyone else, except being friends with other women, TS included.
Sheila

Sheila, Your probably right, its just that over the years since that aweful event I have had men interested in me and in my teen years even had an encounter where some one I worked with took me out and spiked my drink and I woke up in a motel room with my pants unzipped, he said nothing happened but I know different. It seems some men think because I look the way I do, I am easy but that is far from the truth. I like some guys but like you when they start to talk I realize that I have nothing in common with them. I even have problems with my son who is 11 because I cannot relate to him on a male level, he asks the most silly questions sometimes about boy things and I just look at him and think why me and that makes me sad. I did however ask him if I embarrass him by dressing up in girls cloths and wearing makeup and what his friends thought (cause many have called me a girl) and he was more concerned with what they say about his mother who is overweight due to her disability, so I guess that makes me feel more at ease.

The dating thing really wont be a problem for me cause when I have my T suppressed, it makes me alot calmer and it is only because my hormones are up and down at the moment I feel like maybe cause guys like me sexually that I should like them in a sexual way more than I do already but on my scale women would rate higher than men and dont see how this could change in the future but life is strange and who knows what is around the corner.

Sara.

Hm... it's exactly why I don't date.

I don't want to be stuck with a girl... and then have to tell them who I truly am. That would crush the girl, and it would crush me as well, so why do it?

Single forever...

Sorry if that was somewhat off topic.

~Victoria~

Hi everyone -- sorry for the delay in my responding but I was out of town.

re: leather and SM - I admit that I was somewhat interested in it in my preop days.  But, for me, I came to realize that it was the fantasy that intrigued me...particularly the girl being dominated.  A friend did some mild things to me once and I found that, heck, it hurt and I didn't like the feeling of being trapped or controlled.  So much for fantasies!  One time, later on, I went to what I thought was the location of a TG group.  It turned out that I was there when another group was meeting.  The lady at the door said it was "BDSM."  I said, "Oh, okay," and walked away, pondering what the initials stood for.  I realized, "Hmm, SM --- oh, so BD must be..."  I walked away a little faster.  I still fantasize from time to time but, for me, the reality is nothing I want to experience..."not that there's anything wrong with that."

LEIGH - I agree with you in your theory that some men date TS women because they are "gay men in denial."  I've heard that, in L.A., TS prostitutes are often popular in the hispanic community because it would be considered a very unmacho thing to be dating a man -- but date a man dressed as a woman and you're presumed to still be a macho hombre.  For some TS prostitutes, this creates quite a problem in that they WANT to have SRS but, if they do, they can end up not having as much business as prostitutes because they lack the male equipment that some hispanic males prefer.

SARA - Thanks for saying, "You are too good for someone like that."  Yes, I remember, as I drove away from the restaurant thinking that very thing.  Here I was, a successful Hollywood editor and I wasn't worthy of receiving an apology?  But it wasn't personal...he was fond of some kind of Eastern religion wherein there is no blame.  What can I say?  Sometimes when you date, you put blinders on, hoping for the best.  I mean, we all want a special someone, right?  Unfortunately, the reality of  "winning" that person can be as pleasure-filled as watching idiots eat worms on "Survivor."

HAZAMU - You asked, "But what if a guy is upfront about being turned on by T-women, and also seems genuinely interested in you as YOU, not just as a T-woman?"  To be honest, I've always said that I don't know who I'll end up with....it's the person inside that counts.  I know that, when I'm with a man, I tend to feel more female.  Some of the most supportive people I know are gay guys.  But when I'm with women, I feel more sexual attraction to them.  It's interesting to me that women are incredibly unaware that, despite whatever minor physical flaws they see in themselves, that they are beautiful.  Each gender has its attractions.  I agree with you when you say, "honesty, openness, and communication.  If those are there, the rest can be negotiated."

SHEILA - You mentioned, "No offense to the guys here, just part of my back ground."  I, too, feel I'm a product of my upbringing as a male.  One thing that gets in my way of dating guys is a homophobic feeling that American society has taught me to have.  My learned behavior is that I see nothing wrong with two women kissing but have never quite gotten used to seeing two men kissing.  I know it's stupid and illogical.  I should know better.  I truly believe it's just something we all need to get used to seeing and the more it happens publicly, the less of an oddity it will seem.  All of this, of course, I push to the back of my mind when I date a guy.  But, like some of you, I find I'm just not attracted to men.  I remember, when I was a guy, thinking, "I am not a neanderthal like society thinks all men are."  And yet, I see men acting goofy at football games shouting, "Hoo, hoo, hoo" like a bunch of monkeys.  When they do that or act aggressively, I think, "why are they playing the stereotype of neanderthals?  I objected to being thought of like that.  Why don't they?"  So much of society is learned behavior. 

What becomes of my future?  I lived together with a woman for 21 years and we considered ourselves lifetime partners.  My transsexualism and SRS ended our relationship though, amazingly, we remain good friends.  She's moved across the country and has married.  We still talk over the phone on a daily basis.  I've even stayed with her and her husband for a week-long recent visit.

Like some of you, I wonder if I will always be single.  My other best friend says that someday someone will see that I have a warm and beautiful heart and will want to be with me, forever.  I try to boost my mood by realizing that, if people who are missing arms or legs can find love, surely I can.

For now, it's an elusive dream.  Despite being post-op, I sometimes feel like I'm deceiving people when I arrange an internet date with them.  So many of the "love" sites have people proclaiming that "honesty is the most important thing."  If I'm honest with them before the meet - describing my past - will they be turned off?  I know, in my past male life, I would have been.  I know we TS's all have the rule to confess the past just before intimacy.  But is it fair to have someone fall in love with me when I'm hiding my past?  Aren't I creating the same hurt that my ex had to face?  Some of you are fortunate to have wives that tolerated that revelation.  I'm envious.

For now, I'm still not dating.  I may, at some point, seek new "friends."  That seems a kinder way to search -- lower both their and my expectations.   As the saying goes, "No one promised life was going to be easy."

Teri Anne

Quote from: Teri Anne on February 01, 2006, 01:53:20 AM... Each gender has its attractions. ...

That is so very, very true.


The other conundrum of, for instance, stating one is a transsexual woman on one's profile is what kind of flies will that attract?

Kimberly -- What a great humorous way to put it!  Yes, flies indeed!  I once had a screen name with "TS" in it and had a profile describing my past on one of the internet dating services.  All I got were emails and I'M's from guys who wanted to have sex with a TS.  Talk about making me feel like an object!  UGGHH!

Teri Anne

Teri Anne, I have often thought I would date my own kind over gm or gg cause they can identify with me so much better than anyone else. I like that post from Kimberly cause that is exactly what happens, flies are attracted in large numbers by the simple word TS, these guys and sometimes girls are in it for game play, you are an object to them not a person with real feelings.

Sara.

Not all guys who are looking to date a TS woman are just looking for sex. One of our members(DennisInGa) seems like a very nice guy. He cared enough to come here and learn about TS from the source as it were before approaching a TS woman he liked. He wanted to start a relationship not a sexual escapade. If I were dating and if I were attracted to men I would definitley go out with him if he asked(knowing him as I know him from his post.

On the other hand, If he just walked up to me out of the blue I would be suspicious. But isn't that a problem for anyone in the dating scene? I know it is more of a problem for TS women, as you say Teri they are objectifying us and of course there in lyes the problem.

Speaking of Dennis were are you?

Cassie

Teri Anne,

Sorry that the reality did not play out well for you.  What I like is that there is such a wide variety of things people are into.  I also run into quite a few who had bad experiences.  As for variety, it keeps things interesting.  ;)  I am not into a lot of pain myself and prefer softer sensations and having my head messed with a bit.  The person whose training collar I wear is not overbearing at all and gives me plenty of room to do what I think I want.

Profiles.  Had a lot of T stuff in my yahoo profile and ended up with 50+ propositions within 3 months.  I rarely log onto YIM because of this.  I did remove most, if not all, T mentions.  The drawback to that is I have been contacted a couple of times by lesbian women who no longer want to pursue anything once I reveal that I am T (usually in the first email back to them).

Lost -
Yes, me too.  I find that, even though gays and lesbians accept us into their GLBT groups, there is still resistence from lesbians that I'm a lesbian:

M2F dating a lesbian GG - her negative comment can be, "I'm not a hetero!"

Some lesbians have dated me for a few months only to drop me and look for someone else.  It makes me feel like I've been used...that they wanted to see what it was like to date a TS.  But maybe that's unfair...at least they gave me a shot.

Dating lesbians is also difficult at my age, 54.  I didn't grow up lesbian so don't readily recognize who is lesbian and who is hetero.  It's a mystery to me how older gays and lesbians are able to even find one another.  There must be a lot of mistakes along the way.  Sexual preference is a lot harder to distinguish...Life is so much easier, in that respect, in the hetero world.  For those of you that are beginning transition, please consider the difficulty of dating and finding a true love.  I know I did, before transition.  But it's a lot harder than I thought.  If finding a love is difficult as a hetero, it's twice or three times as hard as an older TS.  Some say I look pretty good...when you're TS, that sometimes doesn't matter.  I keep telling myself, "all it takes is ONE."

Teri Anne

Teri Anne: I concur that finding love in the lesbian community, even as a GG is difficult, more so than in the straight community. Part of the reason seems to be that groups formed around being bi, gay, or lesbian, don't necessarily attract people with the same interests and values as yours. The only common factor is sexual orientation and while important, it's not enough to base a relationship on.

And knowing whether someone is a lesbian or not when you encounter her outside specific "community events" is a crapshoot.

Dunno how it's going to be for me, as a straight guy with different anatomy, but I guess I'll find out. From what I've heard, there's a lot more tolerance for that sort of difference among straight women than among lesbians, straight men, or gay men.

Dennis

Dennis, you said, "Dunno how it's going to be for me, as a straight guy with different anatomy, but I guess I'll find out. From what I've heard, there's a lot more tolerance for that sort of difference among straight women than among lesbians, straight men, or gay men."

I wonder if that's because GG's, from childhood on, are ALLOWED to be "Tom-boyish" but GM's are considered, by many in society, to have a sexual fetish rather than actual transsexual feelings.  ie. we are suspect and you're considered more legitimate by society?  I wonder, if both genders wore similar clothing (like robes), whether we M2F's would be considered equally legitimate and less kinky?

I guess male/male homophobia comes into the equation also.  Parents don't worry about a girl hugging a girl but they dang well get their dander up if they see Bobby hugging Billy.

Teri Anne

Still, it doesn't explain the lack of tolerance of lesbians vs. straight women for trans people for dating.

ie: from my experience and what I've heard, straight women are more likely to accept a trans man than lesbians are to accept a trans woman (as a potential partner I mean).

Dennis

I've been wanting to take the time to post a semi-intelligent response to this thread for quite some time now. Unfortunately, I'm not worth my weight in dryer lint right now so this will be shorter and less detailed than I want to get.

Quote from: Teri Anne on February 01, 2006, 02:33:29 PM
... I find that, even though gays and lesbians accept us into their GLBT groups, there is still resistence from lesbians that I'm a lesbian:

M2F dating a lesbian GG - her negative comment can be, "I'm not a hetero!"

I think it's really pathetic that TS people are often seen as 'novelty items'.  Teri that guy you dated was just a plain moron, and I'm sorry you had to experience that.  Sara, too, with that guy spiking your drink and all... >:( >:(   

I see this sort of attitude/behaviour as though you have been treated as less than human... Think about it--- let's imagine foreigners from another planet came to Earth-- can you imagine what they would be subjected to?  And yet to a large degree, it's happening already with TS people and anyone else who is perceived as being 'other than'... It's disrespectful, inconsiderate, and demeaning--no one deserves to be used to satisfy someone's curiosity. 

I probably used a very poor analogy, so I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was NOT implying that anyone, save myself maybe, is from another planet...

Teri Anne, I'm sorry you haven't yet found a more accepting place within the lesbian community.  Personally, I'm attracted to both men and women, but I have had very little contact with the homosexual community at large-- for the very reason Dennis brought up--

Quotegroups formed around being bi, gay, or lesbian, don't necessarily attract people with the same interests and values as yours. The only common factor is sexual orientation and while important, it's not enough to base a relationship on.

In earlier years I tried attending social events with a gay/lesbian group, but quickly grew disenchanted with hanging out and 'being gay' with people...

Anyway I've always been kind of an oddball, so I don't suppose my personal view of things can help very much here, since they might not be representative of the 'norm'....still...

I'm a GG, and came to this site to learn and to understand.  In the very beginning, and this is a confession,  I feared that in my mind I might mentally refer to M2F people as 'he' or F2M people as 'she'...

Never happened-- Even while not knowing anything about TS-ism, my heart and mind from the beginning saw the people I encountered here as the gender with which they identify.  So it baffles me that lesbians would see you as anything but a woman...and Teri, judging from your photo, you don't seem to exude anything but a female spirit and appearance--you're also very pretty by the way, and don't look your age, either.  Which is not meant inappropriately, but maybe if people are finding things about you, it could be because they're looking for things to find? 

Maybe an opinion from a bi-girl isn't as qualified as from a 'real' lesbian...but I contest that when i am attracted to a woman, I'm attracted to a woman, and when to a man, to a man...

Teri, you said:

QuoteSome lesbians have dated me for a few months only to drop me and look for someone else.  It makes me feel like I've been used...that they wanted to see what it was like to date a TS.  But maybe that's unfair...at least they gave me a shot.

I don't know, this bothers me.  I don't know that I can see this as them having given you a shot...I mean, what would distinguish them from that guy with the TS porn?  Or maybe they did give you an honest chance, not out of curiousity but true interest in you, and they discovered as time passed that they just couldn't reconcile within themselves the fact that you were TS...(?)  Still, I don't blame you a bit for feeling used--you deserve so much better...

I was asking myself if someone looking to specifically date TS people are any different than people who want to date outside their race or religion...  I mean you see in the papers all the time, 'Single Black male seeking Single White Female'.... I mean, maybe that's too generalized because most personal ads I see are driven by lust, not relationship. 

But in my own life, I have an affinity for certain ethnicities...I love foreigners, as people, and friends and really don't know why.  I've never sought out a foreing-born person for dating (well, to be honest I am not in the dating scene)....but I can see where I could become easily attracted to one.  Or how some lesbians prefer to date 'butch' lesbains rather than 'lipstick' lesbians... maybe there are some, who might simply have an affinity for TS people?  But I don't think you've encountered them yet (?)

I know that since joining Susan's I am endeared to the TS community as a friend...  I would not specifically seek out a TS man or woman for romance, any more than I would someone of a certain ethnicity...but since my heart has a propensity towards certain groups, the potential is there to have more friends from certain populations, and if the circumstances were right, I would not prevent myself from dating or falling for someone who is or was TS. 

Well now I don't even remember what my whole point was...I guess, Teri, if I can offer these reflections, maybe the others aren't too far from finding you...

Sorry if I rambled or didn't make much sense here, I'm tired today.... 

XO,
Valerie

Quote from: Teri Anne on February 01, 2006, 02:33:29 PM
  there is still resistence from lesbians that I'm a lesbian:

Change that to some lesbians and I'll agree with you.  My experince has, with two exceptions, been more than positive.  Once while I was at a table with some friends a comment was made by a woman at another table that I shouldn't be there.  There wasn't enough left of that woman when my friends finished ripping her to shreds to make a hamburger.

Quote

Some lesbians have dated me for a few months only to drop me and look for someone else.

Welcome to lesbian life.  This is why there is the joke about what a lesbian drives on the second date--a u haul.    

QuoteDating lesbians is also difficult at my age, 54.

No offense Teri Anne but you are just a kid and thats all I'm saying on that subject.  Age is mind over matter-if they don't mind it don't matter.  The closest to my age was still 14 years younger and most are in their 30's.  The older generation certainly have different views than those who grew up with the Goth/Punk/alternative life.  They tend to be more open to everyone--at least that is my opinion.

Quote  I didn't grow up lesbian so don't readily recognize who is lesbian and who is hetero.  It's a mystery to me how older gays and lesbians are able to even find one another. 

Maybe Teri Anne was born without the Gaydar gene but I wasn't  ;D

Edit to correct another error I have made.

Leigh

QuoteUnfortunately, I'm not worth my weight in dryer lint right now so this will be shorter and less detailed than I want to get.

Gee Valerie, if that's a shorter less detailed post we're going to need a whole forum just for you when you really get going.  ;D

Me I'm just glad I don't have to deal with the dating scene at all. With what everyone seems to be going thru from the posts on this topic it sounds like a nightmare ala cart. I thank my lucky stars every day and night for my spouse. If anything happened to her I'd be lost. I just don't think I could ever get into dating. I'd probably just maintain a close cadre of friends.

Cassie

QuoteMaybe Dennis was born without the Gaydar gene but I wasn't 

That was Teri-Anne you quoted with that. I can tell who's homo. Spent enough time in that community. I still think I pick out some pre-homo's when I make what looks like a mistake.

Dennis

Hello all and hi leigh from portland :)

Personally i never was attracted to men and beards a etc etc etc.. so goes that.... Before I transitioned I thought i would end up with a GG lesbian. After transitioning i found i liked me and well i thought i could fall for another like me. I was post op before i ever went to a TS support group. When i did go i found most wanted more than i was willing to give. I basically am a monogomous womyn who doesn't sleep around to find out if someone is for me or not. Too much pain in that. (I suffered that pain before i ever transitioned.) I eventually got involved with helping the Transgender community doing some political work. I also got involved in safe housing. I thought that somewhere along the line i might find a soulmate. I never did. I then traveled the USA in a RV going to many places and many fantasy fest and GBLT pride events. I found the same thing about most lesbians only want to use me to experiement so i never took them up. I stayed celibate but i did get wild in dress and went to many nudist beaches etc. I found that these places were mostly places for newcomers to get hit on by those who never outgrew picking up newcomers. I basically got depressed and stopped going to such events. I finally stayed away from all TS/TG/GBLT events and now i am just living my life helping people. I work as a caregiver (which has been over a year and a half and has provided me a future in this upcoming career). I also do gardening and land development on the 82 yr old womans property. I help two young guys who are both ex minimum security parolees. (DUI and pot charges) They are both doing well. One better than the other. They do work on the property for their rent. I previously use to run recovery homes for 13 years before i ever transitioned so i know how to deal with these kinds of people.

As for a relationship i have basically turned that over to above/God/higher power. Oh if i see someone with a potential for a true love relationship i might send them a email. (which i have done recently but no answer back yet :) ) I do seek another like myself. Someone from 35 to 60. Someone who has resolved their transitioning and exploration stages of their sexuality. Someone who has some basic job or ability to support themselves. I don't want to have to explain my past to a soulmate. I just want to be able to live life. I do like the PNW because it provides a slower paced lifestyle. There are many trees for shade in the summer. I am not into snow. I love gardening. I like doing eldercare. I guess thats me in a nutshell :)

edited to change passed to paced lol silly me

Hi everyone!

Valerie - Thank you for your kind words regarding my appearance and for agreeing that the guy who dumped me was a schmuck.  Frankly, sometimes I think the Martians might get a kinder reception.  I think the biggest problem in dating and in acceptance we face is society's stereotype that TS's are mentally disturbed.  It probably doesn't help that the medical community thinks the same thing -- why else would they list us in their mental disorder books?  Gays were fortunate enought to be freed from that "mental" prison.  Regarding people who date me:  I'd trust someone a lot more if they dated a variety of people rather than exclusively TS's (like that schmuck).

Leigh - I agree that it's SOME lesbians that don't accept me -- definitely not all.  After I was post op, I had two wonderful romances wherein two lesbians (one at a time!) fell in love with me and I was deeply in love with them.  I was incredibly happy about the possibilities.  In one case, it was a woman from the Philippines who had a beautiful poetic voice.  When the clouds were just above the mountains she commented, "the clouds are kissing the mountain tops."  She loved nature and we had one wonderful day just sitting on a hill, watching birds glide and waves roll into the shore.  She squeezed my thigh once saying, "You feel just like a woman."  She ended up dumping me and going back to her previous lover.  The other lesbian who loved me was madly in love with me one week, and then critical the next.  This went on a few weeks until she and I both got worn out from the process.  The reasons she gave for leaving me made no sense to my ex who defended me, "You're kind.  Don't pay attention to her."  Leigh, I was going to mention that I didn't have "gaydar" but didn't know if the term was appropriate for lesbians (shouldn't that be lesbar?).  Whatever it's called, my gaydar is pretty weak.

Cassie - You're right.  Dating can be as exciting as looking for work.  You're fortunate to have a loving spouse.  I don't know if things ever could have worked out with my ex (21 years together).  It would have required her to stop picking on me on an every other day basis about being TS.  She's married now so I guess my ponderings are academic.  One reason I was soooo happy when I fell in love with the two lesbians (above) is that it would make it possible for me to STOP dating.  That would have been nice.

Danielle - The RV'ing across the U.S. sounds fun.  I hope to do that someday.  It's interesting that you dropped going to GLBT things.  I guess that's the one place, given my bad gaydar, that I might stand SOME chance of finding a lesbian.  My problem, locally, is that the GLBT place in L.A. seems to be full of younger lesbians.  I generally prefer people my age -- I generally have no interest in young people's music or culture.  For me, there isn't any better music than from the 40's thru 70's.  Music had this thing called "melodies."  Being you found God, I suppose the church might be a place for you to find someone.  That's not for me, though.

Dennis - You're right - searching for someone in a GLBT group or TS group would be difficult given that someone with my interests might not be in such a group.  For instance, I'm interested in architecture but I was the only one who checked "architecture" on the Susan's Place "hobbies" poll.

My ex, before we split up, said, "why would you want to become a woman at your age?  I can understand if you're young, but now?"  She firmly believed the saying that people over 55 have more of a chance of getting hit by lightening than finding their soulmate.  The strange thing is, she DID find someone.

Just the same, I'm not walking around in empty fields while there's lightening going on.

Teri Anne

Quote from: Teri Anne on February 03, 2006, 02:09:09 AM

back to her previous lover.  The other lesbian who loved me was madly in love with me one week, and then critical the next.  This went on a few weeks until she and I both got worn out from the process.  

This is why using lesbian therapist is redundant.  You don't have one without the other.

QuoteLeigh, I was going to mention that I didn't have "gaydar" but didn't know if the term was appropriate for lesbians (shouldn't that be lesbar?).  Whatever it's called, my gaydar is pretty weak.

If it was only tuned to that one frequency it would be.  The ability to blip other "family" members is gaydar.  Those who identify as bi seem to have some kind of stealth device rendering the dar ineffective.

Leigh

Quote from: Leigh on February 03, 2006, 09:01:51 AM
If it was only tuned to that one frequency it would be.  The ability to blip other "family" members is gaydar.  Those who identify as bi seem to have some kind of stealth device rendering the dar ineffective.

Yeah, my gaydar (and lesdar! Cute one, Teri) is fine, but my bidar doesn't seem to be operational.   ;)

QuoteIn one case, it was a woman from the Philippines who had a beautiful poetic voice.  When the clouds were just above the mountains she commented, "the clouds are kissing the mountain tops."  She loved nature and we had one wonderful day just sitting on a hill, watching birds glide and waves roll into the shore.

Teri, you had me captivated with this-- *sigh* .... How wonderful....

Valerie

Terri anne i didn't find God. I realized that i have spiritual guides that are above. They can be called God but it has nothing to do with religions.. I don't go to churches.. You won't catch me sitting in a phewwwwwwwwww .. i rather just help somebody like Jesus did.. jesus was a rebel against the religous leaders of his time.. Thats why they crucified him..

and just because i choose to only date TS doesn't make me a shmuck... sheeesh ... it just happens to be a preference..

That guy who only dates TS's is ok by me ......but if he is the kind that jumps from one to the next etc etc etc then that is what makes him a shmuck..

Quote from: Danielegrl on February 03, 2006, 10:23:41 AMand just because i choose to only date TS doesn't make me a shmuck... sheeesh ... it just happens to be a preference..

Danielle, I don't think Teri was including you among the schmucks....you have valid reasons for choosing to date only TS people-- you've been there, and TS people are not a novelty or circus side show to you. 

I'm not saying that all GM or GG who exclusively court TS people see them as novelty items or as objects, but if they choose to only date TS, it can be difficult to determine whether or not they have a pure motive. 

Valerie

Quote from: Valerie on February 03, 2006, 09:08:12 AM
Yeah, my gaydar (and lesdar! Cute one, Teri) is fine, but my bidar doesn't seem to be operational.   ;)

Mine either.  I was out for dinner with two friends, one male and the other female and they are a couple.  Her guy did not pick up on what she was saying and I commented that all of that testosterone makes one a big thick in the head at times.  We both laughed.  He came back to the table and then proceeded to show me how something coordinated with his pants.  To which I commented to her something like perhaps he did not have as much testosterone as I thought.  ;)  Then she told me that he is bi.  LOL.  He was a good sport about the whole thing and I am the best of friends with them now.

Not forgetting of course the functionality of some pre ops and their desire to even want sexual relationships and or emotional ties with males or females or other, this can have an effect on dating too.

Sara.

Hmm, the insert post page has the following comment:  "Warning: topic is currently/will be locked!  Only admins and moderators can reply."

Well, on the chance that this post will take, let me just thank you all for your insights and experiences.  Valerie, thank you for the kind words.  And to you others, I guess my "bidar" doesn't work very well either -- that's strange, considering I was "bi" for about four months in 2000.  You'd think a bi could recognize a bi.  Well, many times I can't tell TS's either.  My TSdar is kafunk.

In case the page is locked, may I just wish you all good times and good luck in dating new people.  It can be a struggle but I think the effort is definitely worth it.

Teri Anne

Just to be calm and reaffirming this topic and the discussion contained here in are perfectly fine. I suspect that message was just a ghost in the system.

Ghosts must be working overtime tonight.  I tried starting a NEW TOPIC post and got hit with the same warning that that post is or might soon be locked -- and I hadn't even typed anything into the new topic!  Maybe it's a glitch from the new Susan's Place layout (which, for the most part, I like -- the only thing I don't like are the ghosts and the fact that my old puter takes a long time to load the pages).

I was wondering.  Can we share with each other via posts which online dating services we think are good or bad?  I presume rule #1 about "sharing other sites" might prevent this but I'm not sure.  I do notice that sometimes people put links to sites into their posts.  I used to like the (free) love@aol but it no longer exists.  GLBT sites seem iffey (a lot of peple looking for sex).  Others charge a lot and have the same people, month after month.  The great thing about free services is that it brings in a wider variety of people.  I was going to start a NEW TOPIC on Online Dating Services but maybe someone on Susan's staff could tell me if that's permissable.  Thanks!

Teri Anne

Quote from: Teri Anne on February 04, 2006, 05:26:22 AM...
I was wondering.  Can we share with each other via posts which online dating services we think are good or bad?  I presume rule #1 about "sharing other sites" might prevent this but I'm not sure.
...
I was going to start a NEW TOPIC on Online Dating Services but maybe someone on Susan's staff could tell me if that's permissable.  Thanks!

Teri Anne

Feel free to create such a thread Teri Anne, permission has been granted.

(Golly, doesn't that sound all official and formal and stuffs?!)

Thanks, Kimberly.  I tried starting an Online Dating post but didn't get much interest so I removed the topic.   Perhaps you'all find dates the old fashioned way -- in person.  Or maybe, like me, you're kind of on a dating hiatus.  I do wish I could find an inexpensive or free online service.  Love@aol was so good but unfortunately got bought by Match.com.  Sigh.

Teri Anne

(this post revised on Saturday at 10PM)

"She" had sexy women's nightwear on but a penis was quite visible.  I was shocked.  I thought I was dating a heterosexual man.


I dont get it. Why did you put "She" in quotation mark? Why do you feel that you are more of a female because you have SRS? How do you know "she" is not a she?

I guess this is why a lot of TS's end up with other TS's. I guess it makes a lot of sense, who else can understand you better.

Add to this I am a strong believer that once you are transgendered you are transgendered for life, and failure to recognise this and learn to live with it can only lead to issues later on... ie when you want a partner.

I had an young M2F 'acquaintance' here in my home town*(see below). She is one of these that fell into the trap of thinking that SRS was the end of her transition. She will resolutely and defiantly state that she isn't transgendered, that she is a woman. Quite amusing that the first time I heard her say this was at a local TG group meeting. I felt like asking her, 'well if you not transgendered, why are you here?'... but I am not that evil.

Anyway. She is looking for a 'nice straight boy' (her words), and her intent is to meet a boy who will take her for being a girl, without knowing anything about her past and life will be 'happy ever after'.

I asked her if she and said boy were to fall in love, what would happen when either a) he wants kids or b) you get outted in front of him years down the line.

How is said 'nice straight boy' going to feel then? I wasnt trying to be evil, I was just trying to make her see her folly. I don't think she likes me anymore  :o seems the truth is too much for some.

Anyway, the whole point of my waffle, is that dating is gonna be tough, hopefully we'll all get lucky and meet that person who will take us for who we are and who we want to be, but will also feel unconcerned and comfortable with our pasts. I do know girls who have found guys that appear to be like this.

For me, I just want to find me atmo. I'm not into 'guys', but would embark on a relationship with another M2F TS. 'willys' are not an issue for me, you obviously don't need 'willys' to love someone and please them emotionally and sexually.


*I'm not gonna say friend, cos it turned out she wanted to practice her counselling skills on me rather then befriend, but I think soon woke up to some things about herself, and went cold one me).

hi everyone i,m kristen an new here so forgive me but i, know about dating it,s very hard i,m bi an a ts mtf an it seems when i tell them them that i,m a pre op they seem to run an women do the same i  just wish i would fine one thats not afaired to be with me as i  am . some time i just want to give up on dating but i don,t cause i don,t want to be alone so i know it,s hard an not sure what to do anymore . thanks for listening to me . your truly tried of being alone kristen

Welcome, Kristen!

Please don't apologize for being new, I think it's great that you found us here at Susan's.  You won't be alone if you keep coming here - the people in this forum are very friendly and supportive.  I've found that I can share things here that I could never breathe to many people that I know face to face.  I feel safe here and hope that you will too.

The site is full of great resources so feel free to explore (the WIKI is fantastic, if I must say so myself  ;))  The information is very extensive.  The site rules are easy to read and even easier to follow.

It's traditional for us to post an introduction in our (you guessed it !) Introductions forum https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html and if you feel like it I'd like to invite you to do the same.  Just so we can get to know you a little better.  In any event, I hope to read more of your posts in the future and am again very happy to say,

WELCOME!!!  :)
helen

Hey everyone,

I have crossed this bridge. I want to start with a post I wrote in another forum.

Quote from: Elizabeth in August 2004

Hi girls,

I have been a little down in the dumps the last few days with this incredible feeling of hopelessness. It seems I no longer have the one thing I cherished the most,someone to love.

There was a time when I was a young man that I thought I would never find anyone to love me. But mostly that I would never have anyone to love. Someone to hold onto when I was lonely or afraid or proud or excited.

Now here I am in the same position again. How do I find someone. I don't want to be a fraud and go out dressed as a boy to lure women in only to be disappointed when they don't accept the real me.

I know there are women out there that are feeling lonely just like me and would be happy to have such a caring and loving person as me. But is seems the system, as always, is set up to work against me.

I know many of you have found accepting wives or SO's after losing your first love. And others have made a decision to not even try to pursue finding someone.

Can anyone tell me? HOW DO I FIND LOVE??

Love Always,
Elizabeth

I simply accepted the fact that I was probably not going to find anyone. Women who were not gay did not want a man on his way to becoming one and lesbians for sure don't want a transsexual woman. What I needed was a woman that not only wanted, but also needed a transsexual woman. It just did not seem that likely that I would find one.

This was on my homepage and myspace when my now wife discovered me.



She thought I was a woman at first. She later admitted that she had a very hard time thinking of me as being male or a transsexual until she actually heard my male voice. I never presented myself as anything other than a transsexual that would most likely transition if it were ever to become possible. She had never dated a woman before and in fact was actually dating another man at the time she met me.

We met on an irc chat channel, and eight months later we were married. It turned out that what I needed was a woman that needed a transsexual woman. She had later told me that she had always dated effeminate men, but was not sure why. She has never dated a GG and has not desire to, and even though being with me technically makes her a lesbian, she claims she could never be with a GG. Just when I thought that such a woman did not exist, she found me. And she really would have me no other way.  Other than her desire to have children with me, she really has no need for my male parts.  We have found that sex is not more or less fulfilling whether we use them or not.

It seems with her, it's about being with a loving, warm, compassionate person that loves her unconditionally and she returns all those things to me.  I don't know how I would ever find anyone like her if anything ever happened to her, or if I would even want to.

Don't give up hope, there is the right person out there for you.  Another lonely soul just waiting for some kind, soft, loving transsexual to love them.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Quote from: HelenW on June 04, 2006, 07:12:36 PM
Welcome, Kristen! ...  You won't be alone if you keep coming here - the people in this forum are very friendly and supportive.  I've found that I can share things here that I could never breathe to many people that I know face to face.  I feel safe here and hope that you will too.

Also new, and while I cannot directly relate to the problems expressed here, I would share this important advice:
Wherever you go, there you are.
In other words, if you are tempted to break up a relationship because you're not happy, consider the possibility that you are the source of your own unhappiness. In other words, it's not them, it's you. And chances are you will take your unhappiness with you into the next relationship.
I have acquaintances who've been through multiple marriages, and each time the same basic problem occurs. Different partner, same problem -- which tells me that it's not the partner that's the problem.
The important thing is to supply your own happiness, and learn to live with imperfection in relationships. If you get along fairly well with your BF/GF/whatever, and you're not being used, abused, beaten or ripped off, you're probably doing better than you might think.
Too many people are always looking for that "magic" relationship -- the wonderful, dreamland, be-all, end-all -- and in searching for that, they keep throwing away "pretty good" or "better than OK" relationships. That kind of perfectionism is a one-way street to unhappiness.
I don't know how this relates to any of the specific problems anyone here might be experiencing, but ... remember that a decent/OK relationship might be about as good as you'll get.
On the other hand: You can do bad by yourself. If somebody is seriously mistreating you (cheating, drugging, abusive, etc.), then you would surely be better off alone. In fact, one of the keys to being happy in a relationship is the ability to be happy by yourself -- that way you aren't "high maintenance," always requiring attention.
I suppose this kind of generic encouragement is not especially helpful to the specific issues discussed here, but I hoped to contribute something useful.

Some good advice, Mr. Cool.

And remember, boys and girls, there's a big difference between being alone and being lonely.  It's okay to on your own, to take pleasure in knowing people without being tied to them. 

When my marriage ended, I was told that once I could be alone without 'needing' someone to make me happy, I'd be ready for a new relationship.  The friend who told me taht was right.  I only had to accept one other thing:  That I could be in a relationship with a man.

Once I accepted that, what di God send me but an FTM. 

We've been married over 6 years, and he was the first thing I saw when I awoke from my SRS 6 years ago tomorrow.

Robyn

Interesting, I'm already at that point.  Right now I'm happy being alone.  I don't plan on looking for a relationship anytime soon, however, I am open to the possibility if the right person came along.

Melissa

OK am I wierd in saying I don't have issues with dating people!?

I have dated women, men, TS MtF & FtM
Equal oppurtunity dater I guess! :icon_joy:

My outlook when it comes to whom Im attracted to has nothing to do with sex or even sexual orientation but rather a mental connection I feel with that person.
"you can sleep with anybody...but, how many people can you say you've had a conversation with an actually enjoyed it!"
When I look for a mate, partner, someone to date. I look at the person period point blank no matter what they are (gender wise of course). If I feel a spark, bond or whatever I let that person know (in subtle ways of course) that im interested in them has a person.
Physical aspect normal falls into place once a mental bond is established with me.
sex to me is only 20% of the relationship so gender doesn't count in regards to whom im attracted to.

When I first meet anyone usually within the first hour they know what I am because I throw little hints or some times just out right state im a TS that way from the on-step you know who you are talking to so there is no misconfusion or misrepresentation.
(The confusion part usually comes when they ask about who I date! :)
If I am anything besides a TS i would say im complicated!
I am currently with a man (I would consider BI) He meet me has a feminine boy and then got the oppurtunity to meet the woman inside of me and has been there ever since.

but thats just my take on the subject
Thanks for letting a sista ramble for a few!

Complicated
Chynna