This may seem like a silly question, but when did you start
to feel comfortable in private and then in public?
Did it take HRT, or was it FFS?
Or when you developed a passable voice?
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on December 06, 2007, 05:02:25 PM
This may seem like a silly question, but when did you start
to feel comfortable in private and then in public?
Did it take HRT, or was it FFS?
Or when you developed a passable voice?
I have always had a passable voice but as time goes on you do get more relaxed and worry less. It's taken me about 10 years to worry less but passing was never a problem for me but I still worried about it should the problem arise one day...
I haven't worried about it in a long time. I'm stealth at work, for example. I just really don't have passing issues. I guess I stopped worrying when people stopped calling me sir... which has been a while now.
But, still, even with that, sometimes I'm down on myself and think I look horrible despite "passing" in other people's eyes. Only on rare occasions someone figures out my Trans history because they know trans people, etc. Or knows me from here, or other places. A lot of people know about me, actually. I'm all over the city, so it's kind of hard to completely hide. But now I have an odd mix of friends who know and those who don't know. I don't really worry if people find out or figure it out (some do eventually). I am who I am. But, yes, sometimes it can be annoying because some people will treat you differently if they know, while others will not. I only worry if the wrong person finds out and tries to hurt me.
At work, however, I like not having people know and not having customers know. I actually turned down a job that pays $16.50 at an IT place because I have a friend that works there and decided to tell everyone about me because he thought it would be cool that I work there... I was pissed. I didn't want to have a trans label on me. I wanted people just to get to know me who I am, without labels first.... I find it works better that way. So, yeah, I didn't take that job and took a job at a Drug store for $10.20 instead. It's less money, but at least I don't have to run around having to constantly answer questions about my trans history -- instead, people can get to know me for who I am now. It's a wonderful feeling, and very liberating to have people take me as I am, rather than having a label on me.
--natalie
In my case I have two answers.
I was on HRT for 24 days when I appeared in public wearing an acrylic wig, sleeveless button-down top, shorts, upgraded flip-flops, a pound of Cover Girl makeup, carrying a purse so tiny it couldn't hold a pack of matches, and I didn't care! I was bold, and I walked like Good Queen Bess. I was not easy on the eyes and I was not hard to spot.
Sanity set-in and I got more organized.
I bought a good quality human hair wig, learned how to use makeup from a Mary Kay rep, and started to go shopping on evenings and weekends.
The day I reported to work was the day that I stopped worrying about passing.
Wing Walker
Quote from: Wing Walker on December 07, 2007, 02:05:41 AM
In my case I have two answers.
I was on HRT for 24 days when I appeared in public wearing an acrylic wig, sleeveless button-down top, shorts, upgraded flip-flops, a pound of Cover Girl makeup, carrying a purse so tiny it couldn't hold a pack of matches, and I didn't care! I was bold, and I walked like Good Queen Bess. I was not easy on the eyes and I was not hard to spot.
Sanity set-in and I got more organized.
I bought a good quality human hair wig, learned how to use makeup from a Mary Kay rep, and started to go shopping on evenings and weekends.
The day I reported to work was the day that I stopped worrying about passing.
Wing Walker
That sounds like an awful start......and I never did anything like that! I always tried to be as natural as I could from day one......I was more girls jeans and plain blouse and no make up...
Within the first few months of transition/rlt, I stopped worrying about passing. I felt that I shouldn't have to do this or that because of societal expectations of what I should look like. I still cared about looking good, for me, not for others. I realized that I wasn't a makeup wearing type, so I went natural from then on. I figured people were going to see what they wanted to see anyway. If they saw woman, or man in womans' clothes, not much I could do about that.
y2g
The day I went fulltime. Like throwing a switch, it seemed to simply shut off my nagging sense of unease about going out in public and allow me to get on with living as a woman, to the point where I actually forget that I'm trans. This was a huge relief and my life has felt blessed ever since.
Besides, by that point I was already being perceived as the woman I am, so I had nothing to worry about anyway. The only hurdle I needed to get over was my own insecurity, and going fulltime removed that.
Quote from: Hypatia on December 07, 2007, 07:07:49 AM
The day I went fulltime. Like throwing a switch, it seemed to simply shut off my nagging sense of unease about going out in public and allow me to get on with living as a woman, to the point where I actually forget that I'm trans. This was a huge relief and my life has felt blessed ever since.
Besides, by that point I was already being perceived as the woman I am, so I had nothing to worry about anyway. The only hurdle I needed to get over was my own insecurity, and going fulltime removed that.
Yes.... absolutely the same for me, If I was worried about passing that had to stop when I went full time. You cant live, work, relate to everyone when your head is full of paranoia and self doubt.
Rebecca
"Worry" would be too strong a word, but it's still a concern of mine, even after 15 months HRT... sorta.
I don't obsess and freak and let it stop me in any way. And casual encounters like shopping, going out to dinner, picking up pizza, etc. are no problem. Pushing my way through hundreds of people at the courthouse and dealing with guards and clerks (name change), walking down streets, casually saying Hi to people... no problem.
What still bugs me is DEALING with people in more intimate (not sexual) encounters. Like yesterday, two phone reps (younger women) dropped in at the office and I had to shoo them away. But that meant discussing things with them for awhile, giving them a LONG time to figure things out. And what drives me crazy is I have NO way to know if they did or not. I watch people's eyes and expressions, and wait for some sign... but don't see it, and wonder if 'm just missing it.
I know I shouldn't care. But I do. Not because I'm ashamed, but because I hate making OTHER people feel uncomfortable, and I fear that when/if they figure me out, they'll get weird about it... but they can't SAY anything of course, and we'll both be standing there with this huge "elephant in the room" we're pretending doesn't exist.
We have a new employee, for example. She only knows me as Kate, she never met me from before. She's been here a month or more now, and we talk all the time, but... I have no idea if she knows or not. And that makes me CRAZY, lol. Whether she knows or not, she treats me like any other woman, so it doesn't matter. But STILL... it's just so odd to be talking to someone, and not know if they know.
For what it's worth though, I've NEVER had a laugh and point. Never a sir. That doesn't mean people don't read me now and then, but at LEAST the end result, either way, is that I get to live a pretty darn normal life as Kate... if only I could get over myself, as it seems everyone ELSE has, lol...
~Kate~
When no one could perceive/detect that I had been born with a male birth defect....
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Rommie on December 07, 2007, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: Tink on December 07, 2007, 04:55:16 PM
When no one couldn't perceive/detect that I had been born with a male birth defect....
tink :icon_chick:
What she said. Thanks Tink! :laugh:
When no one couldn't? You mean when no one could detect... So this means one needs to know that no one could possibly read them EVER before one stops "worrying" about it. That is an awfully high bar to achieve and not possible for virtually anyone who transitions after, say, 21. Some people have perceptive abilities that go beyond the five senses.
I ran into a woman yesterday who obviously thought she was stealth and she apparently picked up on the fact that I read her, she was absolutely horrified and became speechless. I would hate to have to live in that kind of prison. Of course, there are only so many people like me around so you two are probably safe. :)
There's so many things I want done like a nose job, GRS etc and I think those things will give me greater confidence. Most of the time I am fine but some days I feel aufull and think everyone knows, but when I look around no one is looking at me. So I think it's just in my head, but I don't let it stop me from doing anything. I have a feeling even after surgeries I may still have days when I feel I look bad and everyone knows. The funny thing is every girl gets down days, and we M/F are no exception.
I haven't reached that point yet. I've come to terms with it and so this is way out of the question for me. I've always been really self conscious to an extent. I'm still coming to terms with it personally, and have told a few friends and many online friends. I hope to one day stop worrying about passing. This thread gives me some hope, in a sense. :3
Quote from: Kate on December 07, 2007, 09:24:11 AMAnd what drives me crazy is I have NO way to know if they did or not. I watch people's eyes and expressions, and wait for some sign... but don't see it, and wonder if 'm just missing it.
Actually, Kate, I'm aware of thoughts like that in me. The difference is that I quit worrying about it. :) Here's why: I have the right to be who I am. It is really no one else's business.
Quote from: Hypatia on December 08, 2007, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Kate on December 07, 2007, 09:24:11 AMAnd what drives me crazy is I have NO way to know if they did or not. I watch people's eyes and expressions, and wait for some sign... but don't see it, and wonder if 'm just missing it.
Actually, Kate, I'm aware of thoughts like that in me. The difference is that I quit worrying about it. :) Here's why: I have the right to be who I am. It is really no one else's business.
See, it all feels a little different for me. Hard to explain. I'm not really "asserting" myself, OR hiding. I'm just, you know, Kate. I don't have a problem being me. I have a problem with making people feel awkward, and for feeling deceptive or like I'm fooling them (and thus MAKING a fool of them).
I'm perfectly comfortable around people who know my history, including complete strangers (who I either have to tell for some reason, or know someone told them, etc.).
And I'm comfortable being around people who I know have no clue, and who aren't likely to guess my secret anytime soon.
What bugs me are situations where people don't know, and MIGHT be about to figure it out. It's the anticipation of that awkward moment, that flash of "oh!" I fear is about to appear in someone's eyes, and then the awkwardness which would follow. Not because I'm ashamed, or care if they have a problem with it, but just because I don't want anyone to ever think I'm out to "fool" them, or to MAKE fools of them. I HATE feeling deceptive, and for anyone to ever think of me that way... just really hurts and would break my heart.
I know, I know, I have ISSUES, lol...
~Kate~
Quote from: Hypatia on December 08, 2007, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Kate on December 07, 2007, 09:24:11 AMAnd what drives me crazy is I have NO way to know if they did or not. I watch people's eyes and expressions, and wait for some sign... but don't see it, and wonder if 'm just missing it.
Actually, Kate, I'm aware of thoughts like that in me. The difference is that I quit worrying about it. :) Here's why: I have the right to be who I am. It is really no one else's business.
What people think of me is none of my business.
I know the feeling Kate.
On a daily basis I don't think now about having
to be anything but myself.
If I HAVE to tell someone, I'm matter of fact
about and smile, and there is no awkwarness.
What I dislike is when people discover my "secret"
when see my payment cards (debit and credit)
are not all changed.
It annoys me a bit. But, that's soon to be finished,
most will be done next week! Yay.
In general, I just softly smile and continue as
if nothing happened.
Quote from: melissa90299 on December 08, 2007, 06:52:37 PM
What people think of me is none of my business.
I can't be like that. Maybe I'm not enlightened or whatever, but it *matters* to me that I'm liked and, if blessed, even loved. If in being me now, I found that I was constantly ridiculed and hated, I'd... I don't know. I don't think I could make it. I need their acceptance, pathetic as that may sound. I need to know they like me, that I belong.
These people - The Public - have been incredibly kind to me. God help them, they even seem to LIKE me, even knowing that I'm trans. So I can't help but feel like I owe them my trust. I'm PART of them, I AM them, so for me to deceive them by pretending to be a genetic female seems unfair, untrusting even. Like I don't believe in THEM, in their kindness enough to trust them to STILL like me if they "knew."
Great, now I have myself in tears for some reason... it's like I desperately want them to FORGIVE ME, once and for all. If I could just get the entire world into one room, and beg for their forgiveness for what I'm about to do... for this "deception" I'm sinking deeper and deeper into...
~Kate~
Quote from: melissa90299 on December 07, 2007, 06:05:38 PM
Of course, there are only so many people like me around so you two are probably safe. :)
of course! we (and i include myself) are a different breed! i'm one of the it girls (no pun intended) ;)
QuoteWhat people think of me is none of my business
This is a social world which few can live without others. Your success depends on what others think.
Quote
I can't be like that. Maybe I'm not enlightened or whatever, but it *matters* to me that I'm liked and, if blessed, even loved. If in being me now, I found that I was constantly ridiculed and hated, I'd... I don't know. I don't think I could make it. I need their acceptance, pathetic as that may sound. I need to know they like me, that I belong.
I am loved, respected, admired and even thought of as a role model by people in my life who matter. I am not talking about being ridiculed by the masses. But everyone is going to run into people who insult them. This is the situation I am talking about that we should not let bother us.
Posted on: December 08, 2007, 11:07:07 PM
Quote from: Katia on December 08, 2007, 08:06:08 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on December 07, 2007, 06:05:38 PM
Of course, there are only so many people like me around so you two are probably safe. :)
of course! we (and i include myself) are a different breed! i'm one of the it girls (no pun intended) ;)
If that were true, you would not feel the need to proclaim it on the internet.
The day I realised that people were calling me "miss" morning and night, every day, all hours of the day, everywhere I went.
Quote from: Kate on December 08, 2007, 06:42:52 PMfeeling deceptive or like I'm fooling them (and thus MAKING a fool of them).
...
just because I don't want anyone to ever think I'm out to "fool" them, or to MAKE fools of them. I HATE feeling deceptive, and for anyone to ever think of me that way... just really hurts and would break my heart.
The transphobic religious right keeps accusing us of practicing deception. Do you feel they have a point? I think they're drastically wrong about that because they completely fail to understand, because their minds are locked into some dogmatic beliefs that don't correspond to reality. But I can understand how living in this country with the hostile climate they create could really get under a person's skin. Put you on the defensive even when no one's attacking. I know the feeling and I've had to consciously release it from me and just relax.
Posted on: December 09, 2007, 01:05:18 AM
Quote from: Valentina on December 08, 2007, 11:41:21 PM
The day I realised that people were calling me "miss" morning and night, every day, all hours of the day, everywhere I went.
Same here--except it's "Ma'am" in my case because I'm an old crone. :)
It was when I had FFS, five or six months into recovery I could see the face I should have been born with.
Quote from: Valentina on December 08, 2007, 11:41:21 PM
The day I realised that people were calling me "miss" morning and night, every day, all hours of the day, everywhere I went.
Same with me! :)
I never worry aboiut anything
Quote from: Hypatia on December 09, 2007, 01:06:08 AM
The transphobic religious right keeps accusing us of practicing deception. Do you feel they have a point?
Nah, I don't fear anyone will disapprove of me. Just the opposite in fact, as everyone I've told has treated me with nothing but kindness. It's as if by passing, I'm sending the message that I feel a need to hide because I think they're mean, judgemental people. That's why I feel I "owe" them the truth in a way. I know that's "wrong" of me, and something I need to work through, but that's how it feels.
I'm not much of a
"this is me so deal with it" kinda person. I really need acceptance, or even "forgiveness" in a sense... tolerance isn't enough. I need to belong. If this had turned out where I was just asserting myself every day amidst scorn and ridicule, I'd probably give up. I couldn't truly BE.
Quote from: ValentinaThe day I realised that people were calling me "miss" morning and night, every day, all hours of the day, everywhere I went.
In an ironic twist, having a perfect record like that is what makes me so paranoid. I haven't experienced a "sir," so I feel like I'm being set up for a huge fall if I let my guard down and start actually believing that I pass.
~Kate~
Kate, I don't see what difference it makes as long as you are just living your life. This obsession with letting others define us is not healthy. Just LOVE yourself!
What people think of me is none of my business
I always took that to really indicate that what other people think, feel, or believe is not within my control. In any lived life you are going to run into people who don't like you, never did like you, and never will like you - no matter what you do. Given that, how much twisting, bending and changing am I required to do to please them that ain't ever going to be pleased?
Its not to discount other people - they are doing that themselves and don't need my help.
So I stopped worrying when it became clear that in trying to please them that can't be pleased I was cutting myself off from people who could and would like me for being just that. And as time went on I gathered other things unto myself that, as it turns out, were even more hateful then being a ->-bleeped-<-. You think ->-bleeped-<-s are disliked, try any of the following: Ph.D, Trade Union Organizer, unabashed left wing political type, or solid agnostic. Fact is, I bet more people in the U.S would vote for a ->-bleeped-<- before they ever voted for an agnostic.
I've got some pretty harsh and hateful comments on the ->-bleeped-<- deal, but its my political writings and union organizing that get me death threats.
So I think that the 'what other people think of me' deal is a lot like the old song where Rick Nelson sang "you can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself."
I hadn't worried about this thing for years until I joined the forum here several months ago.
Now I think about it from time to time.
It's been nearly 20 years since I had surgery.
I don't get stares or called sir... but I suppose there will always be this thing in the back of my mind that I don't look natal.
But to the original question..... I became comfortable with myself after I had my face cleared the first time with electro. That was my biggest tell and when it was gone, my confidence was much greater. I still had a couple years to go on the electro, but I didn't shave once after that.
Now .... I still got read from time to time. They did figure me out at work and learned about my past... management knew something about my past (they had my old name for example) and they did try to get rid of me. That was no big deal. I found another job.
Cindi
I don't think I've worried about it since one day a couple of years ago when I was in the grocery store in the checkout line. There was a woman in front of me in a motorized chair, and she dropped something. I reached down and picked it up for her. When I handed it to her she said, "Thank you, sir." Then she got a better look at me and said, "Oh! I'm so sorry, ma'am! I didn't mean to be offensive."
It was at that point that I knew I could pass close inspection. And since that time, no stranger has ever called me "sir." And now people have to get a complete explanation in order to convince them that I was ever male.
I never stop worrying about passing!!! I don't see how you girls stop worrying. Like even on the freeway today, cruising along at 70mph and the truck was ahead of me and I got closer and closer and to my right was a car and to my left one was coming up fast. But I just went ahead and put on my signal and dodged left and went around the truck.
But the whole time I was looking in my rear-view mirror thinking, "that car is gonna run right up over my trunk and kill us all!!!" It's the same everywhere.
People should worry more about passing. I think it causes way more accidents than they tell us about!!!
Quote from: Nichole W. on December 10, 2007, 03:00:01 PM
I never stop worrying about passing!!! I don't see how you girls stop worrying. Like even on the freeway today, cruising along at 70mph and the truck was ahead of me and I got closer and closer and to my right was a car and to my left one was coming up fast. But I just went ahead and put on my signal and dodged left and went around the truck.
But the whole time I was looking in my rear-view mirror thinking, "that car is gonna run right up over my trunk and kill us all!!!" It's the same everywhere.
People should worry more about passing. I think it causes way more accidents than they tell us about!!!
Hahaha! That was great! The entire time I was going "Ok so enough about cars and...oh lol."
Charlotte
Passing's so passe, I just push the car in front of
me out of the way, road warrior style... >:D
Quote from: Nichole W. on December 10, 2007, 03:00:01 PM
People should worry more about passing. I think it causes way more accidents than they tell us about!!!
Great post!!!!!
People should also worry more about drivers who are talking on cell phones while passing :P
y2g
Nichole, you made my day! That was too funny!
I was thinking what is she talking about then I had to LOL.
Amanda
Quote from: melissa90299 on December 07, 2007, 06:05:38 PM
When no one couldn't? You mean when no one could detect...
Ahhh yes, this is what I meant. It's been corrected! :P
Quote from: melissa90299 on December 07, 2007, 06:05:38 PM
That is an awfully high bar to achieve and not possible for virtually anyone who transitions after, say, 21. Some people have perceptive abilities that go beyond the five senses.
I transitioned at age 20, so I guess that puts me in an awfully high bar! :P
Quote from: melissa90299 on December 07, 2007, 06:05:38 PM
I ran into a woman yesterday who obviously thought she was stealth and she apparently picked up on the fact that I read her, she was absolutely horrified and became speechless.
But Melissa I'm going to quote you from another thread:
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 17, 2007, 01:19:14 AM
But you haven't met me yet.
Yeah, you haven't met me yet! ;) ;D
:P
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on December 06, 2007, 05:02:25 PM
when did you start to feel comfortable in private and then in public?
When I talked to a friend of mine from a few feet away, and he just thought I was my own sister, and asked my wife where her husband was.
That broke something in me.
~Kate~
If you think about it long enough (and I'm sure you will) it will in the end, make your life. After all, is that not what you wanted? Not to be you. Or at least the 'old you'. But to be the new Kate?
After years and years (decades in fact) of thinking "Hey I should be the boss" one day I was. Huge show. Major production. And despite years of thinking, and at least a few hours on the bus going through it all, at that moment when someone turned to me and said "Hey boss, what do you want us to do?" I found myself looking around for that boss. But I caught his eye, and it told me, that person was me. So.... I took a deep breath, and let it fly.
So of course, the first time, it kinda catches you all unawares and such. And perhaps you are thinking of the old adage, "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it."
But I'm sure the next time, you will with all style and grace reach out with your hand and say: "My name is Kate."
As Martha Stewart would say: "Its a good thing."
I don't worry about it anymore. My wife would say I don't worry about it any less!
In fact, I don't worry about any part of me but my hair. I fuss all the time over my hair, and worry that my hair doesn't adequately cover my forehead, and heaven forbid that a gust of wind should come along.
"Get over it!" she says.
Actually, what Lisbeth said, I do pass upon close scrutiny. At least I think I do. Do I? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. All day long I have female and male customers to deal with, usually for about 20 minutes or more, sometimes for a couple of hours. They like me, and get along just fine.
Hmmm....I wonder.....were they just being kind? All of them? Then I think about going here and there, crowded malls, etc. Never a look. Okay....sometimes I get hit on by another gay woman LOL.
But still.....is my hair okay???
And Kate....you don't owe anyone anything.
"I don't want anyone to ever think I'm out to "fool" them, or to MAKE fools of them. I HATE feeling
deceptive, and for anyone to ever think of me that way..."
You don't owe them an explanation, or some kind of empathy for their potential 'embarrassment' or discomfort.
Suppose you were born a natal woman, but were uncomfortably different in some way. Maybe a big nose. I mean a real schnoz! Do you think you should make people feel more comfortable, maybe make a cavernous nasal apology for making them feel uncomfortable about the way you look?
Okay, I digress, or maybe regress. Anyway girl, it's time to start getting around to the business of being Kate. A while ago (consider yourself lucky) I was finally able to stop spending my energy defending Beverly at work, and just start BEING Beverly.
Yah....issues. Get over 'em.
Bev
Nichole, LOL, great sense of humor! I think I have always had a attitude, that is not caring what other people think of me. I felt pretty okay the day I was in the supermarket, right before I went "full-time". I had on no bra, no makeup, was wearing jeans, sneakers and a t-shirt. I started into the men's restroom, and a male employee stopped me, and said, "Ma'am, you're going into he wrong restroom".
Wow, "passing" ... that's a huge topic for all of us ... here are my two cents FWIW ... I believe that as a whole we tend to put too much emphasis on passing ... understanding that there are a variety of body shapes, facial contours, ages, income levels, etc. that function in the area of passing, I still believe that we pass when we are "REAL" ... by REAL I mean that we present an honest, sincere, consistent portrait of ourselves to both our loved ones and the world in general ... and that means different things to each one of us ... for me, I'm a woman every minute of every day, and yet my daughters call me "Dad" and I wouldn't have it any other way ... I talk about my kids all the time and would never hide tha fact that I am their father ... but that works for me, and maybe not for everyone ... anyway cheers to all and if you are interested here is a great link to what "REAL" means to me ...
http://www.community4me.com/Velvetveen.html
Re: When did you stop worrying about passing?
It's always in the back of my mind and not many people pass 100% all of the time. I've now come to realise I pass less than I thought I did which is very frustrating...
That happened one day while brushing my hair. I closely looked at my reflection in the mirror and saw a woman. I understood then that I could not be read as a man because there was nothing masculine about my appearance. I was right.
I stopped worrying about it when 90% of the customers I helped at work referred to me as she, her, ma'am etc., and I'm not even fulltime yet. I decided it wasn't worth the energy to worry anymore.
Hugs,
Rhonda
Quote from: Blanche on December 16, 2007, 11:12:06 PM
That happened one day while brushing my hair. I closely looked at my reflection in the mirror and saw a woman. I understood then that I could not be read as a man because there was nothing masculine about my appearance. I was right.
You are very lucky......I still find things I think are male..
i'm so not anywhere near full time but i guess you could say i am close. all the associates i work with know who i am, and know i am male, even ones i haven't really met yet. i pretty much present as female though, i wear scrunchies, ladies pants, steel toed women's shoes, i wear hair clips in my hair, i use to wear a big old coat that my dad thought was attracting cops to me and advised me to quit wearing it, i did and i took over my wife's winter coats as they are not too overly girly, this past sunday even, i borrowed my wife's scarf, a real pretty light blue, and no one said anything, the only real thing that gives me away that i am male is other associates or my voice being too deep at the time.
on separate occasions, i went up somewehere to pick something up, and this time i was dressed male and thought no one was behind me and took my son with me, next thing i know there is this black guy falling up the steps and then i guess felt he had to redeem himself by getting the door for me and was all like," i'll get that for you sweetie" which creeped me out as i am not the least bit attracted to guys. then another time, same place just different time, i went up to the window to pick it up, and she was like i put it in the computer that so and so is here but that you're here for them, so i sat down thinking oh wow she thinks i must be my wife and i said nothing. they called me back and i went, and they called me her and she and asked me if i had my drivers license on me, i said yes and i thought oh aren't they in for a bit of a surprise when they see it, they gave me what i needed without my license and i left. the thing was in my wife's name, so i signed and where i went all they did was ask if i signed it, i said yeah and left. no questions asked. the second time i picked it up, it was in my name, and the guy was like ma'am did you sign it already, i told him yes and i left. i know this is long but it proves a point to me and touches me more than i ever thought it would.
last week my wife forgot her lunch box in our car, so i had to take it back to her, i stood there at the bank waiting patiently with my son and her lunch for her to be done with customers. there was a rather pretty blonde in the back working the drive-up. my wife comes out and i let her drive us home, she goes you know what i was asked today? i said no what? i got asked if you were my sister! oh was i so touched, as i never in a million years would have thought she would have been asked that, as quite frankly i really don't think i much look like her or her sister, but she told them i was her husband and she went on with herself. as for my case i pass most of the time which makes me happy, and sometimes more than i ever expect, which makes me ecstatic.... ;D
Hi all,
I stopped worrying about passing the minute my beard was almost gone. I got to the stage where I didn't really care what others thought, I wanted just to be me. I have only been out and about since July and no one seems to care, no strange looks so far and last Saturday I was shopping and went to a shopping center (mall). Two things happened, 1. I knocked some books over in a book shop and I stooped down to pick them up and when I finished a man was obviously staring down at my boobs, lol. 2. Some one brushed passed and I swear they touched my bum, god how rude I thought. First time anything like that as happened to me and I got to thinking did I dress wrong? I was in a normal top, not to low cut and trousers.
Just be yourself and look confident.
hugs
Nigella
Hi All,
This is my first post here. I received a link to this forum via one of my Google alerts. Let me briefly introduce myself. My name is Terri and I live in the Midwest. I am many years post-op (20+) and I am simply a woman who was born with a birth anomaly for which I sought medical intervention and had the birth anomaly corrected.
The subject of this thread piqued my curiosity. I never use the term passing and I think any person born with transsexualism, or the newer term HBS, is doing themselves a great disservice by using it in the context of being perceived in your daily lives. Passing, by the very nature of its definition in this context means trying to pass oneself off as something they are not. When I was a child growing up in Appalachia it was commonly used for a black person trying to "pass" as a white person. I am not trying to pass as anything. I was born a woman but, because of a set of rare prenatal conditions, my body developed incorrectly, presenting as male. So, even though I may retain some physical male characteristics, I am NOT a male trying to "pass" as a female. Because of those residue male characteristics someone could mistake me for a male but that would be mis-reading me, not reading me. I cannot control whether someone does that so I never concern myself about it though no one has addressed me as a male for at least 20 years. Now a cross dresser, ->-bleeped-<-, drag queen or anyone who's gender presentation is opposite their own sexual identity could use the term passing accurately. They are trying to "pass" as something they know they are not.
As far as being completely "comfortable" after my transition I guess I would have to say it was after my genital corrective surgery. Before that I carried a constant "fear" that something would occur that would expose my uncorrected genitals; be it a restroom door accidently swinging open, or being arrested (even falsely) and being searched. The final "hump" for me was about 9 months after surgery. I joined a health spa. I will never forget the feeling I had after my workout when I went to the women's locker room, took off my clothes and went into the group shower with two other women. I even chatted with them about the weather or something mundane like that. I was never concerned again about "passing".
Terri
Quote from: HappyWoman on December 19, 2007, 01:42:54 PM
I never use the term passing and I think any person born with transsexualism, or the newer term HBS, is doing themselves a great disservice by using it in the context of being perceived in your daily lives. Passing, by the very nature of its definition in this context means trying to pass oneself off as something they are not. When I was a child growing up in Appalachia it was commonly used for a black person trying to "pass" as a white person. I am not trying to pass as anything. I was born a woman but, because of a set of rare prenatal conditions, my body developed incorrectly, presenting as male.
Thanks Terri
I agree with you and that has helped me too.
hugs
Nigella
Right on, Terri. You said it very well and I agree with you completely. I have dropped the term "to pass" from my vocabulary. Now I call it "being perceived correctly as the woman who I am."
Quote from: HappyWoman on December 19, 2007, 01:42:54 PM
As far as being completely "comfortable" after my transition I guess I would have to say it was after my genital corrective surgery. Before that I carried a constant "fear" that something would occur that would expose my uncorrected genitals; be it a restroom door accidently swinging open, or being arrested (even falsely) and being searched. The final "hump" for me was about 9 months after surgery. I joined a health spa. I will never forget the feeling I had after my workout when I went to the women's locker room, took off my clothes and went into the group shower with two other women. I even chatted with them about the weather or something mundane like that. I was never concerned again about "passing".
Terri
I almost forgot about that feeling, now it is just I am another woman in the locker room. But, yeah, the first time showering and doing the sauna with the girls was quite something. Yeah, chatting casually with other naked women the first time was also an experience. I wonder if all this obsession here about passing is being perpetrated by pre-ops. (I don't know who is and who isn't yet)
Well yeah, I mean being post-op and naked pretty much settles the matter for all time.
You know, sitting in a locker room or a sauna naked and just chatting casually with someone of the same sex is something I thought I would NEVER do. Can anyone imagine men doing that?
Hum...when did I stop worrying about passing?? :eusa_think:
To some degree I always worry a little...but for me it was when I was shopping and a woman walked up to me and just started a conversation and asked my opinion on some clothes she had picked out...I guess it was basically when other woman started accepting me for a woman...or the day I had three guys trailing behind me at CostCo...or the day an eight year old girl walked up to me and said 'Ma'am, I really like your dress.' Come to think of it...it was the day the guys were trailing behind me...
I used to obsess about passing...but haven't for some time now. I think it's only normal for people to worry about passing, especially right after transitioning. It's not until you become comfortable within yourself that you really stop worrying about it...in my opinion at least.
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
At my school they had a week long freshman orientation where I was thrown into the mix of a lot of people my age. After having no problems I knew I was going to be okay :)
I think the question might have been aimed at older transitioners who may be far less convincing.......I'm not really surprised by Isabelle and Kat's comments, given your ages and appearance....
Quote from: Berliegh on December 27, 2007, 07:35:17 AM
I think the question might have been aimed at older transitioners who may be far less convincing.......I'm not really surprised by Isabelle and Kat's comments, given your ages and appearance....
Actually the hardest age to transition is during mid-life in my opinion. Those of us who transitioned young are more passable...usually...depending upon a lot of different factors still. Those who transition in their late 50 and 60 actually have it easier then someone in their 30's and 40's....but that has just been my observations...
Peace and love,
Izzy
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PMActually the hardest age to transition is during mid-life in my opinion.
sigh
Tell me about it!
I've been amazed about how easy it has been since I went full time about 6 months ago. Only one real incident when a group of teenage girls seemed to notice but beyond that no problems at all. I agree the longer you go the easier it becomes. You expect to be treated as a woman and that draws people along.
I was lucky to be able to grow my hair out to shoulder length before full time. I think sometimes when I was spotted it was the wig they were reacting to.
Every time I see this question I think of the 60's film, Doctor Strangelove, How I stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb.
Maybe we just need to get the ruskies to invade us and we won't have to worry about passing anymore.
Maybe creating a device that makes nobody passable as anything but humans of indeterminate gender, and blow it up.
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 27, 2007, 01:44:36 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on December 27, 2007, 07:35:17 AM
I think the question might have been aimed at older transitioners who may be far less convincing.......I'm not really surprised by Isabelle and Kat's comments, given your ages and appearance....
Actually the hardest age to transition is during mid-life in my opinion. Those of us who transitioned young are more passable...usually...depending upon a lot of different factors still. Those who transition in their late 50 and 60 actually have it easier then someone in their 30's and 40's....but that has just been my observations...
Peace and love,
Izzy
I think that's true Izzy, on the whole men seem to mature more in their 30's and 40's and it would be harder to eradicate the natural male development that may have occured during or after this period.
THE hardest age to transition is the one you do it at. Any other thought is to not understand what it is to do it.
Quote from: tekla on December 29, 2007, 11:34:15 PM
THE hardest age to transition is the one you do it at. Any other thought is to not understand what it is to do it.
*phew* finally someone who realizes that transitioning when your still somewhat younger sucks! :D
It's hard enough with all this pressure of society and people enforcing their views upon you as is! Us "kids" can't think on our own after all, right? :)
Hum...
I might either be the worst person to talk about transitioning or the best person...not sure...guess it really depends on what someone's view point is...
I won't lie and say that transitioning at any age is easy...it's not. There are problems to be faced by everyone one they transition, the main difference between someone who transition at lets say 15 like I did the first time I transitioned...and lets say someone in their early 30's like the second time I did it...there are very different problems for each age group.
As a teen it was just getting anyone to even listen to me...parents don't want to hear that their perfect little boy wants to be a girl...even when they do listen...they just don't get it...been there done that. There are also more social problems when a teen transitions...teens are not exactly the most friendliest of groups when it comes to anything outside of the norm. I endured daily verbal abuse throughout most of high school, I learned to ditch PE...god the thought of having to even go close to the boys locker room and lets not even talk about the required 'shower' after gym class...I did that once...and only once and vowed to never in my life step foot back into that locker room under any circumstances...and I didn't. I failed PE...but I at least got through it alive.
I started hormones at 15 originally and to be honest...passing has never really been a problem for me...but passing is only one part of the equation when it comes to transitioning...and to be brutally honest...passing is the smallest part of transitioning in my opinion. My life throughout high school was as close to hell on earth as you can get...all because my mother wouldn't let me transfer to a new school or legally change my name...both things that would have more then likely made high school a piece of cake compared to what it was...
At 17 I really needed help...not from my mother or sisters either...but rather from a good therapist and a doctor who knew at least something about gender identity problems. But again...because I was just a 'kid', I could not find anyone willing to help me...my parents weren't helping that's for sure...my sisters helped me more than anyone during those years...as one of my sisters still says today...she'd rather have another sister then a dead brother...my parents didn't get it...the kids at school certainly didn't get it and at that time the medical community didn't want to get it where GID in teens was concerned...with no place to turn...no where left to seek help...a mother who seemed to crawl into a bottle at every chance...I personally hit bottom and made my first attempt at suicide...that at least finally got me the therapy I wanted...but it took such drastic measures to even get an adult to listen to me...so while transitioning at a young age has definite advantages when it comes to your looks and appearance...transitioning as a teen (at least back in the 80s) was a living hell...
I won't go into detail of the events that lead me to go into denial at 24...that's a post best left for my blog...
I am now in my early 30's and have just transitioned again for the second time. This transition didn't go exactly as planned...but I'm learning not much in life ever does...Yes...I am older now and don't have to fight to get an adult to listen to me...but I now have tons more emotional bagage to carry forward with me...I have 4 wonderful kids that if I hadn't gone into denial I would have never had the pleasure of having...but at the same time these wonderful kids make transitioning that much more difficult...that and the ex...who did know about my GID before we got married...hell...I had only been off hormones 6 months when we meet...I didn't really look like a male at all...
Transitioning when your older is a lot harder in some ways...you have a career that you've spent years building up, you have a history that regardless of what you do will always be there...you have tons more obligations and responsibilities that all need to be addressed too. You may or may not have kids or a spouse to contend with, and tons of other things...
The act of transitioning is actually perhaps one of the hardest steps you can take, but at the same time it's not as difficult as a lot of people make it out to be...passing can be hard for some, easy for others and next to impossible for others...but in my opinion...too much emphasis is placed on passing...just look at all the genetic females out there and you'll see a wide assortment of woman...it's not too difficult to blend in with the crowd as they say...
Regardless of what age you transition there will always be problems and issues that you will need to deal with...and each age group will have slightly different and yet similar problems that they will face when they transition.
If you let fear rule your life, you'll never do anything...so take a deep breath...plan as best as you can...and just go for it...eventually everything will work itself out in the long run and the longer you wait to transition...the less time you have to enjoy life in the you you were meant to be....and that would be the true waste of it...in my opinion...
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Is transitioning for the second time like losing your virginity for the third time? Or perhaps dying for the fifth time. I'm really confused. I thought there were some things in life you only got to do once, once.
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2007, 04:58:07 AM
Is transitioning for the second time like losing your virginity for the third time? Or perhaps dying for the fifth time. I'm really confused. I thought there were some things in life you only got to do once, once.
No actually you can transition...not have SRS...go into denial and back to living as your former gender...and then do it all over again later...sounds like fun doesn't it...well it's not!
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 30, 2007, 05:36:01 AM
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2007, 04:58:07 AM
Is transitioning for the second time like losing your virginity for the third time? Or perhaps dying for the fifth time. I'm really confused. I thought there were some things in life you only got to do once, once.
No actually you can transition...not have SRS...go into denial and back to living as your former gender...and then do it all over again later...sounds like fun doesn't it...well it's not!
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
It depends on how far you transitioned and even if you didn't have SRS you may have had more noticable surgery like breast augmentation and FFS. That would make it harder for someone to go back and forth and living as a former gender I would have thought
Quote from: Martine on December 30, 2007, 06:13:58 AM
It depends on how far you transitioned and even if you didn't have SRS you may have had more noticable surgery like breast augmentation and FFS. That would make it harder for someone to go back and forth and living as a former gender I would have thought
Very true, which is why I was ma'amed my entire life...but denial can be a strong thing at times...don't think I really fooled anyone except myself to be honest...
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2007, 04:58:07 AM
Is transitioning for the second time like losing your virginity for the third time? Or perhaps dying for the fifth time. I'm really confused. I thought there were some things in life you only got to do once, once.
After year long RLT including changing my name legally, I un-transitioned. Realized that I was more in between gender than one or the other. I have recently contemplated transitioning again, I am not happy being perceived as male.
y2g
Quote from: y2gender on December 30, 2007, 08:48:32 AM
After year long RLT including changing my name legally, I un-transitioned. Realized that I was more in between gender than one or the other. I have recently contemplated transitioning again, I am not happy being perceived as male.
y2g
For me it wasn't that I realized that I was more between genders or even questioned my gender identity; for me it was the rapes I suffered and ultimately the loss of my sole mate that cause me to back track...there was just too much pain in that existence and I retreated into denial and a wall of isolation.
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
QuoteWhen did you stop worrying about passing?
a long time ago. i've forgotten when.
To the OP:
I may be an odd duck,
but I never really worried about passing.
Acceptance always was (and is) more important to me.
Quote from: tekla on December 30, 2007, 04:58:07 AM
Is transitioning for the second time like losing your virginity for the third time? Or perhaps dying for the fifth time. I'm really confused. I thought there were some things in life you only got to do once, once.
Just my two cents on this, and as a regular poster, not a mod. Please understand that.
I am sure this was considered 'cute,' but it really is not.
When someone stops doing what they need to fulfill themselves it hurts. It hurts a lot and is not an easy thing to do.
A CD might understand that in terms of 'purging' their wardrobe of female dressing items and not dressing for a very long period of time, at least I would think that might be true if the CD is getting some 'peace' from dressing.
I find the remark pretty tasteless and not at all funny. To me it shows a lack of empathic response in that being witty seems to be more important than being understanding.
Like I said, just my own thoughts.
Nichole
Quote from: Martine on December 29, 2007, 07:35:51 PM
I think that's true Izzy, on the whole men seem to mature more in their 30's and 40's and it would be harder to eradicate the natural male development that may have occured during or after this period.
That does tend to be a concern. Consider how humans are all fed programming by their betters. The smart girl will see through the hype and use her knowledge to consciously program her own life the way she needs. It's essential to trans people's self-realization. Basically the same skills that quaint mediæval language called "magick" or "alchemy".
Quote from: Renate on December 31, 2007, 04:27:07 AM
Quote from: y2gender on December 30, 2007, 08:48:32 AMI un-transitioned.
I'm sorry to hear that y2gender. It makes me very sad.
Thanks for caring Renate. It was an extremely difficult decision to de-transition, but necessary at the time due to many external circumstances; finances, work situation, etc.
Among the reasons were coming to a deeper understanding of myself, I knew I was clearly not male, so a natural assumption early in transition was that I must be female. I've realized that there are many places in the middle and that's who I am, not that it's an easy realization. I do sometimes think that, given the binary world, I'd rather be perceived as woman than man, even if I'm neither. For now though, I simply do the best I can, honoring who I am as androgyne, even if the rest of the world outside my family and circle of close friends doesn't see it.
Well, this really doesn't have much to do with the topic, so that's enough for now. Maybe I'll create a thread about this sort of thing.
y2g