Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I walked out of the house today putting practically no effort into looking girly.  I was ready for some funny looks.  Instead I got ma'amed where ever I went.

Go figure!

Julie

It's very nice when that happens. I got ma'amed by a state trooper the other day at a routine drivers license checkpoint while I was in bluejeans, t-shirt, and no makeup. Funny thing was my license still has the "M" marker, so there's another go figure. Thank you, ma'am!  :laugh:

I get Ma'amed fairly regularly. It does feel good  ;) Although I didn't take to it well when I was younger. But now in my forties....I'll take any compliment I can get  :laugh:

I was at kaiser medical today, standing in line with a lady in front and behind.  One of the nurses said ma'am, and the lady in front of me said which of the three woman was she referring to, her, myself and the lady behind me. 

Then I go see the doctor, my first time with list doctor, BTW and she starts asking when was the last time I had a pap smear.  Since she's going to be my primary care doctor,  I told her about my hum checkered past.  She just said OH, and kept on going.

That made my day.  Life just gets better and better.

Beni

the first time I get a Ma'am I'll probably leap into the air and make a fool of myself. I really notice it now (with sadness) when someone says "sir"

I recently umpired in an international little league baseball tournament (9 games in 4 days).

For my sins I was given home plate umpire for the Minors (under 10's) Final and damn are those catchers small (aka bad back) and the pitching fairly erratic.

So there I was, leg guards, chest protecter and face mask, when a little American boy strolls out to the plate, takes a practice swing and looks at me and says "Hey, are you a boy or a girl!". I called time, pushed up my face mask and replied " I am the umpire, now shut up and hit", startled he said back "Ohhh Sorry Maam" and proceded to strike out.

Not much chance to umpire in a skirt and high heels.

Buffy

I am "Ma am"d all the time now, but once in a while I get that dreaded 'sir'.  I look at the person. point at my boobs and say "Excuse Me?".  They usually are at a lose for words at this time.  I fume over it for hours.  That so PO's me.

I always say I want to be able to walk into an auto parts store with no makeup, my hands and face smeared with grease, my hair pulled back into a pony tail, wearing a ratty white T-shirt, Levi's, and workboots, and have the guy at the register say, "How can I help you, Ma'am?" I've got a long way to go.

Buffy, that's just hilarious. I laughed. :laugh: At least the kid knew what to say.

Too young to be Ma'amed and in different culture with different words. Young women seem to be now even less formal and and otherside men are less rude.  ???

1) Kaiser medical has an upper echelon administrator who is M/F.

2) I have had talks with local police and I know some of them already know enough about this that if you are presenting as female, they will treat you as such even with an "M' on your license. I am referring to auto accidents or tickets where there is no possibilty they might have to cart you in. In jail, it becomes different. I was in 2 accidents since 2001 and I told the officers that my ID did not match my identity and the response was " no problem" and it was forgotten. I guess Florida is just like way progressive?

3) I did a training at a local jail on transgender health and there were no pronoun mistakes and I was directed to the female bathroom. Unfortunately, it was not the same if you didn't come in the front way.

4

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 10, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
I walked out of the house today putting practically no effort into looking girly.  I was ready for some funny looks.  Instead I got ma'amed where ever I went.

Go figure!

Julie

Miss Julie, please tell me you aren't serious.  You are surprised by this?  And you get on me sometimes for having doubts??  Girl, you could not pass as man if you wanted to, as we both know that.  I mean, look who looked great practically right after surgery.  Remember this?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc380%2Fkboyd62%2Fchi4.jpg&hash=6ebef937d8e2097c702f1a723a18061f3f23489c)

Put on your big girl panties and get out there and enjoy!  (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc06.deviantart.com%2Ffs26%2Ff%2F2008%2F133%2F6%2F7%2F_flowerno__by_Helen_Baq.gif&hash=2210b1395ec6c2058e15b9184fcecd84dbc729c6)

Love ya,

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Julie!

You stopped being able to pass as a guy a long time ago!  Sorry, hon, it just won't happen...

I'm glad you are coming to see this for yourself.

Congratulations!

-Sandy

Quote from: DarkLady on June 11, 2009, 09:28:23 AM
... Our police claims that using birtsex as classifying post-op TS is done ''because they do so in the USA''. :police:

What you, and if what you write as true, is true, then I find that you and Finnish cops have a hard time understanding "in the USA."

There are thousands, hundreds of thousands jusrisdictions here who employ possibly a (few) million enforcement officers. I don't think that there is a "rule" that applies to all of those cops, in any jurisdiction.

I presume that some places there will be cops who would behave the way the cops mentioned by XSW and in that same jurisdiction there are cops who would make a large deal out of the fact.

You seem to be making blanket presumptions that there are "rigid" rules to how cops here are going to treat someone dependant on where those officers work. It's never been my experience in any place I have ever lived that cops all behave the same way in the same circumstances: for traffic violations and prolly not for other things as well, provided of course, their lives aren't being somehow threatened.

As for the MTF thingy that you obsess about, I have had friends who have been stopped in TN, where the laws themselves are "unaccepting" (even legally toward post-ops) and have been treated respectfully and as "no big deal" whereas I know others who have been stopped in NJ, where the law states that there will be no discrimination of any sort, and have been treated as if they are 9/11 terrorists who pose a grave danger to the community simply by being alive.

I think that for the most part that is prolly true everywhere you go here. Although one would have to acknowledge that dealings with the cops in SF is likelier to be pacific than would the exact same dealing in  Cheyenne, WY, or Topeka, KS, or Jackson, MS.

I think the thing for you to do is to get out of your head 1) that the USA runs on a one-size fits all basis when it comes to cops and their actions and emotional make-ups and that 2) even if that was true that you have no stake in it since you have no plans to ever be here as a citizen and that even if you did that you are now post-op, and so, most of this is completeky moot for you.

N~

thank you Nichole that was well said.  :)

Quote from: FairyGirl on June 11, 2009, 03:34:30 PM
thank you Nichole that was well said.  :)

You're welcome, FG. :)

The single strain on that harp begins to grate after about the three-hundred and eighth time I've heard it played.

N~

Quote from: DarkLady on June 11, 2009, 04:34:33 PM
One attorney whom I asked said that county jails are more ''without general rules'' but state's prison systems and expectionally the federal system usually have some (secret) policy to classify TG:s.

OK, you've quoted this "one attorney" more than once. We get that you are obsessed by USA jails and prisons. You will drop this discussion element in a thread that has nothing at all to do with jail or prison, please?

It is a persistent and disturbing derailment that you are always using and the places you generally use it are almost always totally NOT about that idea. Please cut it out, DL.

N~

 :laugh: Went to buy some long garden stakes for my Sunflowers today. As I left the cashier said "Thank you Ma'am"  :laugh:

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 10, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
I walked out of the house today putting practically no effort into looking girly.  I was ready for some funny looks.  Instead I got ma'amed where ever I went.

Go figure!

Julie

This is my future definition of blending/passing, whichever you choose to call the term.

Congrats Julie,

Mich'

When I got my name-change papers, I went to the nearby military base to get a new ID.  (I'm retired military.)  The gate guard wasn't going to let me on because my ID at that time had a male name and a picture of me with a beard.  I explained that I needed to go to the ID office to get a new one because I had changed my name.  He said: Just go up this road and turn left at <something-or-other> road, Ma'am. 

Good thing I had my seatbelt on or I would have floated up through the sunroof. ;D

- Kate

Quote from: FairyGirl on June 10, 2009, 08:13:27 PM
It's very nice when that happens. I got ma'amed by a state trooper the other day at a routine drivers license checkpoint while I was in bluejeans, t-shirt, and no makeup. Funny thing was my license still has the "M" marker, so there's another go figure. Thank you, ma'am!  :laugh:

I read an article a while ago that had something to do with police officers and transsexuals. It mentioned that some cops go under sensitivity training in regards to the transgendered community. However, I noticed in the article that they mentioned very few under go this training.

I highly doubt this was what happened in your case, given the fact that only two or three stations had underwent this training. Your story just reminded me of that article; I wish I had a link.

Regardless, I imagine it always feels good to be identified as the correct gender.

When it happens, it's great! I was en homme mode (well - androgynous with makeup) and it happened once.
Janine

There was a time when I was in mid transition and was still drabbing to work, but had been on HRT for several months.

When I was on the train, the conductor came by and said "May I see your ticket, Ma'am?"

I wanted to kiss that conductor!

-Sandy

There is no real pattern for how a lock-up classifies TS's who get arrested. It is usually whatever policy the commanding officer chooses to implement. In some jails, even the time of day they bring you in can make a difference.

In the early days of computers (and Goddess knows, I was there), the people at IBM attempted to create a language translation program that would automatically translate English to Russian and Russian to English.

For their first test they attempted to translate the phrase "Out of sight, out of mind" to Russian.

They then took the resulting translated Russian phrase and sent it back to be translated to English.

The resulting phrase was:

"Invisible idiot"

Arent there times when we all feel like an invisible idiot. And other times wished we were.

Quote from: Melissa Ryan on June 12, 2009, 06:24:21 PM
Arent there times when we all feel like an invisible idiot. And other times wished we were.

Don't worry, it was a bit of a non-sequitur in response to a post from a person who was trying to hijack the thread.

Thankfully, the post has been apparently deleted so my non-sequitur is now a double non-sequitur.  Making it a non-non-sequitur.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...

-Sandy(two "nons" don't make a right)

Yes Ma'am  :D

Well Julie in my opinion I don't think girls need make up to look beautiful, you are all beautiful. To me the make up is kind of like a security blanket in ways, I think we wear make up so much because we're afraid of what people will think of us, I'm glad to hear that you didn't get any strange looks though :)

OMG! Just now I was out taking my dog for a walk dressed in drab. The police rolled up and wanted to arrest me as a vagrant  ??? I explained that I'd lived in my apt. there for nearly four years. So they asked for my I.D. I told them that my I.D. was in my apt. They said "OK ma'am, but ladies shouldn't be walking around so late at night". Then they told me to stay inside because they were looking for someone. Glad I wasn't that someone  :P

I am sorry. I am happy that something bad did not happen!

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 14, 2009, 05:26:35 AM
OMG! Just now I was out taking my dog for a walk dressed in drab. The police rolled up and wanted to arrest me as a vagrant  ??? I explained that I'd lived in my apt. there for nearly four years. So they asked for my I.D. I told them that my I.D. was in my apt. They said "OK ma'am, but ladies shouldn't be walking around so late at night". Then they told me to stay inside because they were looking for someone. Glad I wasn't that someone  :P

How wonderful!  ;D 

I've had a few things happen like this that were troubling or a bit scary at the time, but later I think - wow, that really shows I'm going in the right direction.

Stay safe, ma'am. :police:

- Kate

well Julie that's great news. but you look so fem because you ARE fem now.
congratulations

Actually I have been Ma'amed once and it was not a compliment of any kind. Female security guard used it after she had put metal detector directly between my legs.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc03.deviantart.com%2Ffs28%2Ff%2F2008%2F180%2Ff%2F8%2FFrustration_Sigh_by_Nayelianne.gif&hash=5fbdcefa7a4c3ce7483efda2d8f7e47fab39d76e)  I thought this was one thread where we would not be treated to the prison talk.  I guess I am wrong and she can hijack anything.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

DarkLady...   https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,60773.80.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,60773.80.html)

Should I rename this the "prison interests' thread."

Actully I deleted my post about the issue from this thread after i got the warning. >:( >:( >:(

HEY! While we're on the topic I got sent do D.T. :/ my friend framed me for robing a house D: but oh well, stuff happens.

Sorry Sandy

Do two nons make a habit?

Very bad religous pun

I think I need to run away.

Cindy

Quote from: Buffy on June 11, 2009, 12:47:36 AM

So there I was, leg guards, chest protecter and face mask, when a little American boy strolls out to the plate, takes a practice swing and looks at me and says "Hey, are you a boy or a girl!". I called time, pushed up my face mask and replied " I am the umpire, now shut up and hit", startled he said back "Ohhh Sorry Maam" and proceded to strike out.

This is the most hilarious thing I've read all week, I wish we still had the reputation system sometimes.

I didn't get ma'amed today. But I did have a car load of guys yell "What's up Baby? Woo!!!" and wolf whistle. I thought for sure they were referring to some-one else. So I looked around. No-one else around. Then I heard one of them say "Shut up dudes, your scaring her." Then they drove off and I continued to the store felling rather perky  :laugh:

Quote from: CindyJames on June 17, 2009, 03:47:38 AM
Sorry Sandy

Do two nons make a habit?

Very bad religous pun

I think I need to run away.

Cindy

If the nons are not in their habits, that might mean that they are at the rectory.

At least that is what the bad little boys at the Catholic school said...

-Sandy

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 17, 2009, 04:26:01 AM
I didn't get ma'amed today. But I did have a car load of guys yell "What's up Baby? Woo!!!" and wolf whistle. I thought for sure they were referring to some-one else. So I looked around. No-one else around. Then I heard one of them say "Shut up dudes, your scaring her." Then they drove off and I continued to the store felling rather perky  :laugh:

Well, Virginia, that sounds like it was even more than ma'am. :D  No wonder you were perky.  :laugh:

- Kate

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 17, 2009, 04:26:01 AM
I didn't get ma'amed today. But I did have a car load of guys yell "What's up Baby? Woo!!!" and wolf whistle. I thought for sure they were referring to some-one else. So I looked around. No-one else around. Then I heard one of them say "Shut up dudes, your scaring her." Then they drove off and I continued to the store felling rather perky  :laugh:

Perky?

I would glow in the dark!!!

If that ever happens to me I'll be ready to pass on - life won't ever be any better...

I am pre-tranistion still but once i was in a friends garden with him and another girl i know and his friend came into the garden and was like "sorry dude didnt realise you had ladies round" :P

made me giggle

Well, it was a real cheat but i got my first today. I went to another town to check on a few jobs and took some makeup and a change of clothes for the drive back.

I stopped in a McDonalds for a drink along the way back and as I was leaving and older couple was approaching the door so I stepped through and held the door, with my back to them and the old man said "thank you ma'am" as he passed.

*warm fuzzies!*

(even if he wasn't seeing me from the front)

Right On Laura!!! It's all about confidence and self acceptance. You can do it too  ;)

The first of many, Laura, the first of many.  ;D

Janet

Quote from: heatherrose on June 23, 2009, 01:22:26 AM

Yup, a confident walk and pouty smile from the knowledge
that you own the ground you stand on goes a long way.

good advice indeed. :) I get ma'amed all the time now- I think it's the boobs, they're too small to be fake LOL

Quote from: FairyGirl on June 23, 2009, 08:31:20 AM
I think it's the boobs, they're too small to be fake LOL

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc01.deviantart.com%2Ffs45%2Ff%2F2009%2F118%2Fc%2F4%2FGREAT_LOL__lol3__by_zombierap21.gif&hash=8021a6affb6ba9be29c9867f52d0c43a6527cdda)

That's hilarious.  But you know, I am done with breast forms.  Mine are in the same condition as yours.  I think it is a lot more natural at this state to just wear a padded pushup bra and let things go.  Just not into:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc05.deviantart.com%2Ffs9%2Fi%2F2006%2F027%2F0%2F6%2F_aluoca__by_broken_toy.gif&hash=357ace74f93cd7e62cac43ae409e2483d4dc41d0)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 10, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
I walked out of the house today putting practically no effort into looking girly.  I was ready for some funny looks.  Instead I got ma'amed where ever I went.

Go figure!

Julie

That is the objective if you are transsexual. I used to work doing gardening and no matter what clothes I was wearing  (even pre - transition) people would say 'look there's a girl doing the gardening'.

I never wear glam clothes and usually wear jeans and T shirts and no make up and I am called darling by men. I believe less is more and it's much better to look natural in everyday situations.

It seems like I get ma'amed more often when I am dressed down. If I go out in a tank top and jeans It's like every person I talk to ma'ams me at first but if I'm wearing a dress they noticed something is off about me. It probably has something to do with being way more paranoid about people and there reactions to me when I'm trying.

Quote from: Courtney on June 25, 2009, 02:35:50 PM
It seems like I get ma'amed more often when I am dressed down. If I go out in a tank top and jeans It's like every person I talk to ma'ams me at first but if I'm wearing a dress they noticed something is off about me. It probably has something to do with being way more paranoid about people and there reactions to me when I'm trying.

I agree, and you are really echoing my previous post Courtney.

I also think some TS's have a male stereo typical view of what a woman should look like and tend to overdo things with clothes and make up rather than taking more time with observation and experience.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on June 25, 2009, 04:49:33 PM
I agree, and you are really echoing my previous post Courtney.

I also think some TS's have a male stereo typical view of what a woman should look like and tend to overdo things with clothes and make up rather than taking more time with observation and experience.

Truthfully I think its just people picking up on how scared and anxious I am. I seriously think I may have some sort of social anxiety disorder and feeling like people could "clock" me just makes it worse.  I'm definitely not prone to stereotypical behaviour and I don't really dress over the top.

Where I live, the local university students go about visiting folks. Everything was going fine until they asked me my name. Well, Virginia goofed and I gave my birth name. They looked shocked and confused. Then they looked at my boobs. Then they looked back at me like I was lying to them. It was a bit of an uncomfortable moment. Then they saw someone they visit regularly and went to visit them.  :P

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 25, 2009, 08:33:26 PM
Where I live, the local university students go about visiting folks.

What does "visiting folks" mean? You're not in assisted living or something, are you? Do they just go randomly about knocking on strangers' doors?

Well, OK, I was reluctantly placed in a Housing facility due to injuries incurred. I could barely hold a glass of water with both hands for several months. My sister retrieved me from San Diego and helped with the arrangements. It is still difficult for me to lift much, but I am doing much better. But hey, I'm walkin' and talkin'. Can't cry too long about stuff. Life goes on. The students visit as part of their schooling

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 25, 2009, 10:25:47 PM
Well, OK, I was reluctantly placed in a Housing facility due to injuries incurred. I could barely hold a glass of water with both hands for several months. My sister retrieved me from San Diego and helped with the arrangements. It is still difficult for me to lift much, but I am doing much better. But hey, I'm walkin' and talkin'. Can't cry too long about stuff. Life goes on. The students visit as part of their schooling

Wow. It's nice to see some one thinking so positive.

Oh, dear!

It is supposed by me that how "injuries" were "incurred" would best not be revealed, as indicated by the use of the passive voice. ;)

Quote from: Courtney on June 25, 2009, 02:35:50 PM
It seems like I get ma'amed more often when I am dressed down. If I go out in a tank top and jeans It's like every person I talk to ma'ams me at first but if I'm wearing a dress they noticed something is off about me. It probably has something to do with being way more paranoid about people and there reactions to me when I'm trying.

Yeah, it's weird, huh? It seems like the less I try, the more ma'amed I get. Unless I grow out a full beard or something. something I've never been able to do anyway.

Owning the ground you stand on

Would it be safe to assume that you are talking about a person accepting themselves and taking confidence in the person that there are?

In Florida, it seems most young and youngish women wear dresses and heels just to go to the mall. I know lots of Lesbians and older women who don't, but in this heat, most seem to wear sundresses.

HeatherRose - I love you sig and I'm going to steal it to use on another board. Seger is THE man to me!

Quote from: xsocialworker on June 26, 2009, 09:40:32 AM
In Florida, it seems most young and youngish women wear dresses and heels just to go to the mall. I know lots of Lesbians and older women who don't, but in this heat, most seem to wear sundresses.

I live in a town where you can walk around for two weeks before seeing anyone in a skirt.  When I went to a convention last week, I took the opportunity to wear skirts several days.  A lesbian friend who was there from another city told me I'll never pass as a lesbian because I was dressing too well. :D

I got ma'amed a lot - in jeans and skirts, made up and bare-faced - so things are going well. 8)

Quote from: heatherrose on June 26, 2009, 09:55:01 AM

...and "own the ground you stand on"

And that, in just six words, is the secret to passing. ;)

- Kate

Quote from: heatherrose on June 26, 2009, 09:55:01 AM

...and "own the ground you stand on"

Quote from: K8 on June 30, 2009, 11:11:35 AMAnd that, in just six words, is the secret to passing. ;)

- Kate

Absolutely. I think it's my new mantra  :laugh:

This is my mentality and it really helps me out: I don't want to pass anymore than a gg passes.  Passing isn't an issue when you just go about your business like you're supposed to.  Passing almost makes it sound like I'm trying to sneak around and fool people which is decidedly not the case.  It reminds me of a story about a guy in a POW camp in Germany during WWII.  He apparently had gotten a large pot of soup from the kitchen (i think he somehow made friends with a cook or something like that) but he was attempting to keep to the shadows on his way back to the barracks. Then the guards spotted him with their searchlight.  First of all prisoners weren't supposed to be out at this time of night nor were they supposed to have a bunch of food.  So the prisoner took a gamble and just kept walking like that's what he was supposed to be doing.  The guards didn't question it and he made off with the soup.  The moral of the story is to not be worried and people won't question you.

Topic: Getitng Ma'amed Without Getting Glammed

Why do you have to get Glammed in order to get ma'amed?

I get called darling if I answer the door to the mailman first thing in the morning in my pajamas.

I was feeling a bit down. Thinking I look ugly  :P I went to a holiday dinner party. Some women there commented that I was very attractive. This lifted my spirits some, but I couldn't help but wonder if they were just blowing smoke up my skirt to make me feel better. But then at the supermarket today I was leaning over to look at some prices on stuff. I felt something go pat-pat on my rear  ??? I looked about and a group of guys walked by saying "Hey Momma" and "Likin' that Booootay". Granted, they looked half my age and I didn't find them attractive. But then I noticed that guys my age were checkin' me out. They were just more subtle about it  :icon_chick:

Yeah, sometimes I am a bit of a tortoise. Other times I'm more of an Iguana smiling in the sun  :laugh: I actually don't think about passing all too often. I was just noticing the various scars and signs of age. Girls like to feel pretty. At least this one does. I don't need allot of attention. But it does feel good when someone notices me in a positive way

QuoteI had to go wee so I went to the ladies room (of course) and it was busy in there.  Lots of women in and out.  No one batted an eyelash at me.  Even exchanged smiles with a few of em.  No problems at all.  Zero.

this provokes a bit of curiosity for me. Do you still live in the same area and shop at the same stores you did before transition? That is, is there a decent chance that the check-out girl or the other person in the aisle or in the bathroom is someone who knew you before?

One of the things that has crossed my mind is that if I don't have a chance to move before i get to the 24/7 stages, that this little town is small enough that everyone in town will know who I was and what's going on - and so going to the little girls room can never be an anonymous thing.
Thus the potential for the un-accepting to protest.

I went climbing yesterday with a good climbing partner that I haven't seen much since he moved to another part of the state recently. I was annoyed that I still have to present male. This is actually a major block to going full-time. You need to be completely present when climbing, and worrying about how you look just has no place. If I want to go full-time, I need to be able to present credibly female with no makeup, wearing cargo pants, trail shoes, a helmet, and a Gore-tex rain jacket.

My partner told me I looked "like a tomboy." Well, that's what I am. :)

I'm getting more "ma'am"-s and "miss"-es in less overtly feminine presentation as time goes on. Alas, I still rely on the engineering marvels of the Victoria's Secret company, but at least it's getting to be less work, even in just the alst few weeks. So, yay, increasing confidence! :)

Forgive if I'm being dense but these people didn't pick up on the progression from point A to point B?

Or did you keep it down low until all at once to 24/7 with no gradual changes?

I can't imagine the folks at the local Wal mart just forgetting the first time i showed up without a beard or the first time I was a blonde or whatever and not adding it up...

---

Post Merge: July 04, 2009, 04:41:59 PM

---

Mine was also non eventful too, Honey.   He just looked at me and said "Petition granted".  It was obvious to him why I wanted to change it.  A woman was standing in front of him.

DMV changed the gender marker because Oregon allows for that with a letter from your therapist.  And when I went full time, work changed the gender marker to female which changed the health records too.

QuoteWhat was really cool about the whole thing was he signed
the order on my birthday.

that's one of my little fantasies - that when I change mine (IF!) it will happen on a birthday.

In fact, I mark pretty much everything in my "future fantasies" by either my birthday or by the anniversary of the day i came out to my wife.

"by my 46th birthday I'll..." or "within five years of coming out I'll..."

The only exception to that is weight. It was one year ago this last week I found out I was diabetic and she said lose weight (which looking back, I think may have been the last trigger to provoke me to come out) and I decided then not to just lose 10% but to lose half of it (I weighed 308 at the time)

Right now I'm at about 256 (which is WAY slower than I had hoped - one lousy pound a week on average) but I mark my weight not only by the birthday and the anniversary but also by the first of July.

My goal is 2 pounds a week for the next year (on average) which would put me at right around 150 this time next year.

I'm...digressing again...aren't I?
:-X

Yes she does.  Just more to love.

Quote from: Laura Hope on July 04, 2009, 03:55:22 PM
this provokes a bit of curiosity for me. Do you still live in the same area and shop at the same stores you did before transition? That is, is there a decent chance that the check-out girl or the other person in the aisle or in the bathroom is someone who knew you before?

One of the things that has crossed my mind is that if I don't have a chance to move before i get to the 24/7 stages, that this little town is small enough that everyone in town will know who I was and what's going on - and so going to the little girls room can never be an anonymous thing.
Thus the potential for the un-accepting to protest.

Excuse me, ladies, while I butt in here.  I too live in a small town (26,000, but the next town is 50 miles away and there are only a few houses in between).  Last January 26 I shaved off my beard.  April 21 I started full time as Katherine.  I go to the same shops and cafes and coffee shops where people recognize me from when I was whats-his-name in a beard.  I use the women's rooms when I need to go, of course.  (And what restroom would they expect me to use, after all?)  At first people were a little wary, but now they realize this is a permanant change and welcome me.  Actually, I've made friends of some of the store clerks that were only professionally friendly with me when I was *him*. ;)

Today I met two women I hadn't seen in quite a while.  One recognized me from *then*; the other asked if I was new in town.  The one who recognized me just smiled at me and kept her mouth shut.

Just because you change your presentation from him to her doesn't mean you have to move.  (I know - it depends on where you live. :P)  Most people ma'amed me today and the others are my friends who call me Kate.

Yes, I've been lucky.  But it also helps to go forward with confidence.  As Heatherrose says: Own the ground you stand on.  As Janet says: It's all about attitude.

Laura, if someone recognizes you from *before*, so what?

You go girl!

- Kate

You can do it Laura  :icon_yes:

Due to injuries, I am no longer able to run unless I like my hip and knee going out and doing a nose dive. So did that stop me? Did I give up and go ring the bell? Hell no  :icon_burn: I went out and got a bicycle and an elliptical exerciser. After all, I hate driving or flying in just about anything for some reason.

Dee you are every bit your Mothers daughter.  You are both beautiful women.

Janet

Quote from: K8 on July 04, 2009, 07:30:33 PM
Excuse me, ladies, while I butt in here.  I too live in a small town (26,000, but the next town is 50 miles away and there are only a few houses in between).

for the record - I'm talking more like 6 or 7,000

QuoteLast January 26 I shaved off my beard.  April 21 I started full time as Katherine.  I go to the same shops and cafes and coffee shops where people recognize me from when I was whats-his-name in a beard.  I use the women's rooms when I need to go, of course.  (And what restroom would they expect me to use, after all?)  At first people were a little wary, but now they realize this is a permanant change and welcome me.  Actually, I've made friends of some of the store clerks that were only professionally friendly with me when I was *him*. ;)

Today I met two women I hadn't seen in quite a while.  One recognized me from *then*; the other asked if I was new in town.  The one who recognized me just smiled at me and kept her mouth shut.

All that, especially the short obvious turnaround, is VERY encouraging.

Quote
Just because you change your presentation from him to her doesn't mean you have to move.  (I know - it depends on where you live. :P)  Most people ma'amed me today and the others are my friends who call me Kate.

Yes, I've been lucky.  But it also helps to go forward with confidence.  As Heatherrose says: Own the ground you stand on.  As Janet says: It's all about attitude.

And THAT is what I struggle with.

Quote
Laura, if someone recognizes you from *before*, so what?
You go girl!

- Kate

Oh, I'm positive everyone who sees me regularly is well aware of every change in appearance and that is FINE. I'm not trying to be stealth.

I do hesitate some in wearing certain things - I've not dared to wear a skirt in this town yet because I'm not 24/7 and I'm trying to not just be "in your face" about it - and that limits my choices some because I can't bring myself to wear the "man mask' without a very good reason (like employment) but at the same time, if I avoid "girly" stuff I have a very narrow window. But all that is just adjustment things for me and for them.

I really don't care if I'm not as well accepted in the future as I have been so far.

But the answer to "so what?" for me is this: If all these folks have watched me transition and transform and one day I go to town in a dress they will know it's me and "oh well"...but if I head off to the little girl's room and am challenged on that, that's a big ugly scene I would rather not have.

and I WOULD be challenged unless they had reason to think I was post-op.

It's one thing to be the curiosity that everyone is too polite to admit they notice, it's quite another to be the one who sets off the alarms, so to speak.

---

Post Merge: July 04, 2009, 09:54:36 PM

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Quote from: Virginia Marie on July 04, 2009, 07:31:22 PM
You can do it Laura  :icon_yes:

Due to injuries, I am no longer able to run unless I like my hip and knee going out and doing a nose dive. So did that stop me? Did I give up and go ring the bell? Hell no  :icon_burn: I went out and got a bicycle and an elliptical exerciser. After all, I hate driving or flying in just about anything for some reason.

What I really prefer to do is swim but I can't afford the gym membership at the only place with a pool in this hick town.

It is funny on the bathroom issue.  I was told that when I went full time at work, "Under no circumstances was I to use the the mens room."

Please, Please, Please....Don't get this thread started on bathroom issues  :P

Quote from: Dee_pntx on July 04, 2009, 10:25:11 PM
The big secret is to just dress plain, like everyone else.  Don't get all dolled up to the nines and draw attention.  Try shorts for starters, just like the rest of the women are wearing now this time of year.  Then work towards skirts.  Slow and gradual change goes unnoticed much easier than sudden overnight change.

This is pretty much how I dress for walmart.  A plain black skort, my boyfriend's shirt and sneakers with ankle socks.  Pretty plain and boring. 

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrans.twilightparadox.com%2FIMG_0845.JPG&hash=886a2cfc95b7a8acf8c0a8b2e99fc0d108c8d8bd)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrans.twilightparadox.com%2FIMG_0846.JPG&hash=b8aaf8d0689776345724782be5ff807c41781dfa)

I don't try to knock em dead, I'm not hot and never will be.  I just want to be seen as average and plain and draw as little notice as possible.  I don't want attention.

Small bites and chew slowly.  Slow and steady wins the race.

Actually, that's not much different than what I wear most every day.

I have some ladies shorts (one kacki, 2 kind of athletic shorts that are way to short for a girl my age) and I wear them every chance I get. Ladies sneakers and socks and the only real issue I have is shirts. I can't find androgynous blouses in my size. The blouses I have are obviously feminine style. So it's either wear one of those, or my "hawaiian flowerdy shirts"

almost always the latter (well, I do ha ve one or two things that are in neither camp but the pickings are slim, you understand the point)

So, truthfully, how you look in that pic is very much like how I look most every time I go out (unless I'm job hunting or something)

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Post Merge: July 04, 2009, 10:08:13 PM

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Here's a pic with the shorts.

Ignoring the wig, I've been to the store in this outfit before. (before the tank top shrunk...I've got half a dozen ladies tanks and they all ride up on that fat belly)

Lately I've taken to throwing on some makeup almost every time, just enough to make a subtle statement, nothing "glam"

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F2633%2Fpict0107.jpg&hash=a45ada7c342e174a31ed1f41987ff5b65ae34caa)/2633/pict0107.jpg[/img]

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Post Merge: July 04, 2009, 11:09:42 PM

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I was faking the lady bumps with a cami with built in cups there, for what it's worth - my "moobs" aren't that big (sadly)

Here's pic from 2007:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/dreamfields/IMAG0004kimhay.jpg (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/dreamfields/IMAG0004kimhay.jpg)
I always dress casually but I don't look very female in this shot. More like Bon Jovi? I hope I've improved a lot since then but I don't have any recent pics at the moment.

AH.......Only if Bon Jovi is MtF.

Janet

Dee, you are definitely your mother's daughter.  You look very much alike. 

(I'll have to dig out a picture of my mother.  I'd love to look like her or one of her sisters, but I think I probably look more like my father's family - kind of geeky and awkward, a bit like the British Royal Family. ::))

Quote from: Dee_pntx on July 04, 2009, 10:25:11 PM
The big secret is to just dress plain, like everyone else.  Don't get all dolled up to the nines and draw attention.  Try shorts for starters, just like the rest of the women are wearing now this time of year.  Then work towards skirts.  Slow and gradual change goes unnoticed much easier than sudden overnight change.

Small bites and chew slowly.  Slow and steady wins the race.

Yes.  I rarely wear a skirt in town because almost no one does.  I want to blend in as best I can.  My transition has been very fast, but it has consisted of a rapid succession of small bites, chewed slowly. ;)

- Kate

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 05, 2009, 06:18:46 AM
Here's pic from 2007:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/dreamfields/IMAG0004kimhay.jpg (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/dreamfields/IMAG0004kimhay.jpg)
I always dress casually but I don't look very female in this shot.

You look like a girl that has been working outside all day to me.

Quote from: Lori on July 05, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
You look like a girl that has been working outside all day to me.

Agreed. Cute farmer's daughter vibe going on
;)

2  points here

first if for Laura,

The pic with tank and shorts looks almost exactly like a gg friend of mine without the shadow. Don't sell yourself short.

second is on topic but backwards as I'm FTM

I was in a car accident last week. Police, ambulance, hospital, no one figured out I was born with female parts til I told the doc in the emergency room. (He asked why I was wearing a binder and if it was cause of back trouble.)

felt good 

if this don't belong here due to being MTF site, feel free to remove it or tell me to.

No worries Dude  ;) I hope you were not badly injured in the accident  :icon_bunch:

Quote from: LordKAT on July 05, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
second is on topic but backwards as I'm FTM

if this don't belong here due to being MTF site, feel free to remove it or tell me to.

It's the same, LordKAT, but from the other side of the glass.  We do have many of the same issues. 8)

I hope you're OK. :)

- Kate

Quote from: LordKAT on July 05, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
2  points here

first if for Laura,

The pic with tank and shorts looks almost exactly like a gg friend of mine without the shadow. Don't sell yourself short.

;D


BTW, got ma'amed again this afternoon (from behind again) this time in Wal Mart.

He was passing behind me s I was studying the shelves looking for something and said "Excuse me ma'am" and then he spoke to a worker (the worker knows me and would know ma'am was a stretch - I don't know if he gave the guy a hint or anything) and then when he went back the other way I THINK I caught a glimpse of him doing a double take over his shoulder but either way...

I soaked it up!
:D

 :icon_chick: I got ma'amed a few times July 4th by a police officer who gave me a short lecture regarding bicycle safety on holidays  :police: ::) :police: "Please ride safe ma'am."

As to injuries in my accident, whiplash type stuff, sore neck and back, 2 day headache and don't lift more than 5 lbs for a week. I'm ok tho as it will pass with no major troubles.

Quote from: Dee_pntx on July 04, 2009, 10:25:11 PM
The big secret is to just dress plain, like everyone else.  Don't get all dolled up to the nines and draw attention.  Try shorts for starters, just like the rest of the women are wearing now this time of year.  Then work towards skirts.  Slow and gradual change goes unnoticed much easier than sudden overnight change.

This is pretty much how I dress for walmart.  A plain black skort, my boyfriend's shirt and sneakers with ankle socks.  Pretty plain and boring. 

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrans.twilightparadox.com%2FIMG_0845.JPG&hash=886a2cfc95b7a8acf8c0a8b2e99fc0d108c8d8bd)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftrans.twilightparadox.com%2FIMG_0846.JPG&hash=b8aaf8d0689776345724782be5ff807c41781dfa)

I don't try to knock em dead, I'm not hot and never will be.  I just want to be seen as average and plain and draw as little notice as possible.  I don't want attention.

Small bites and chew slowly.  Slow and steady wins the race.

I've been looking for a chance to reply to this with a pic. I got my wife to take one when we got back from Wal Mart today. Everything upon my person is made for women. This is pretty typical of the way I commonly dress nowdays (admitting the difficulty of finding blouses that are tailored to my non-typical female torso since such doesn't exist)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg269.imageshack.us%2Fimg269%2F4613%2Fpict0249x.jpg&hash=59a604340a1f0d7a6dcfa24b011ac8ee0272d9f8)


So yeah, I thin I got the Plain Jane look down decently lol.

Quote from: Laura Hope on July 13, 2009, 06:55:22 PM
I've been looking for a chance to reply to this with a pic. I got my wife to take one when we got back from Wal Mart today. Everything upon my person is made for women. This is pretty typical of the way I commonly dress nowdays (admitting the difficulty of finding blouses that are tailored to my non-typical female torso since such doesn't exist)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg269.imageshack.us%2Fimg269%2F4613%2Fpict0249x.jpg&hash=59a604340a1f0d7a6dcfa24b011ac8ee0272d9f8)


So yeah, I thin I got the Plain Jane look down decently lol.

You may try onestopplus.com They have a large selection of stuff for plus sized girls

oh no, you misunderstand a bit....I can find plus size clothes (albeit I can't afford anything more than thrift store prices and not that right now so it's hard to find some I can afford)

What I mean is that I have a really big belly and no breasts to speak of. Blouses tailored for big belly's are also big up top, so they fit too losely around my neck and upper torso...otoh, the ones which fit right higher up are too tight around the belly and usually too short.

Women just are not built like I am - even the fat ones. Another 40-50 pounds and I'll be in a better range at least.

Oh, OK sorry. I understand better now. Due to injuries, I'm not really able to run much any more and being in a vehicle kinda freaks me out. I found bicycling to be very therapeutic  and good exercise

Laura, there are some cuts you can look for to help. Pintucking or ruched necklines with more flowy cuts can work better, for example, this:

http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=383010&CategoryID=43328 (http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=383010&CategoryID=43328)

Empire cuts (with a seem below the bust) are also something to look for. I often look for cap sleeves for summer tops -- they fit my comparatively large upper arms, but don't make my shoulders look as big as they do in a tank or strappy top.

And, of course, getting in shape can't hurt -- I know you said you're trying to lose some weight and get in better shape, and I wish you good luck and good health in achieving your goals. :)

Laura
I think vertical stripes are quite slimming, and as Alyassa said make your neck or another part of your body a feature. If you are wearing totally gorgeous ear rings and carrying a cute bag people eyes are attracted to them. Or a really cute scarf distracts people from looking where you don't want them.

Love and Hugs and I hope the weight program goes well for you.

Cindy

I got ma'amed at the McDonald's drive through yesterday at the pay window...warm fuzzies!

She probably realized her error pretty quick but it was col to get that "first instinct" response.

That's awesome, Laura! Unless you reacted with visible surprise, I bet she didn't even think twice!

I've shifted my outdoor wardrobe over mostly to female clothes, so I'm presenting as female when I climb now -- which is awesome.  That was something I was still working on when this thread started. It's definitely not "glam," but I typically get "ma'amed," so that pretty much rocks. The main hangup I have is with getting done with laser -- wearing makeup in the mountains is kind of lame.

I kinda got ma'amed, but not verbally. Someone keeps leaving plastic bags with assorted bras at my door.

Subtle hints from the bra fairy  ???

Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 17, 2009, 06:39:57 PMSubtle hints from the bra fairy  ???

wasn't me I swear (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faeriewylde.com%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Ffaewink.gif&hash=48e34aec052ac7456e33891e47f0d47edbc45563)

Well, noting that it was starting to get dark out and I needed to pick up my dog's special gifts....I decided to go as I am  :laugh:

Nothing fancy, blue jeans, tank top,and my fav. open toed pumps (tey only have about an 1-1/4" heel). No make up, but hair up with a clip and curly side danglers.

I figured no-one would be around anyway. Wouldn't ya know it there were some guys across the street. They started up with whoo hoos and whistles  :laugh:

I just smiled and went about my biz. and went back in feelin' rather perky for a girl my age  :icon_chick:

Quote from: Virginia Marie on August 17, 2009, 06:39:57 PM
I kinda got ma'amed, but not verbally. Someone keeps leaving plastic bags with assorted bras at my door.

Subtle hints from the bra fairy  ???

Virginia, maybe you have a neighbor with a bra tree in their back yard producing too much of its fruit for one person to use. In case you have never seen one, these trees look very similar to ordinary aspen trees in the summer time, but during the winter, they produce a crop of their unmentionable fruit; right now would be peak season in the southern hemisphere. Here is an example of such a tree at peak harvest near Aspen, CO:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aspentimes.com%2Fapps%2Fpbcsi.dll%2Fbilde%3FSite%3DAT%26amp%3BDate%3D20050205%26amp%3BCategory%3DMOUNTAIN02%26amp%3BArtNo%3D50204025%26amp%3BRef%3DAR%26amp%3BMaxW%3D550%26amp%3Btitle%3D1&hash=647f2696d2375db3e1f8df7da4b53f456f62f756)

Notice that these trees tend to grow in the same habitat as aspens, along the disturbed fringes of steep clearcuts for chairlifts at ski areas, but I suppose they could grow in other areas as well. I found an article in the Aspen Times describing this unusual biological curiousity, which you can read here (http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20050205/MOUNTAIN02/50204025).

I hope this might help yield some insight into your little mystery!

:icon_chick:

 :laugh: ROFL

A bra and pantie tree would be great  :laugh: But the bras show up in bags from the local thrift store. Oh well, at least I know where the bra fairy shops.

I'll have to give the bra fairy credit though....She's a fairly good size guesser  :laugh:

I was trying to grow a VS bush myself.
(Hmmmm that didn't come out the way I intended...)  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I tried going down to the local garden shop and asked for one of those and they got very angry.  I wonder why?

-Sandy

 :laugh: The bra fairy struck again today  :laugh: I'm beginning to acquire quite a collection

I'm noticing that the sizing varies depending on the maker. i.e. Some of the B-cups lend a bit of room to grow, but I'm wearing a C-cup right now that fits great.

I don't really understand the topic, 'Getitng Ma'amed Without Getting Glammed'? I don't think I ever get glammed for anything but no matter if I'm out in the garden in my jeans and wellies or rolling out of bed and opening the door to the mail man in my nightshirt I usually get called darling.....   

If I didn't then I would start to worry...

Are you for real? You mean there wasn't a time earlyish in your transition when people would call you "sir" if you were dressed in a Metallica tee shirt, old ripped up blue jeans with lots of grease stains, and beat up work boots changing the oil in your car? Well, bully for you. But some of us didn't transition when we were twelve years old.

Me: Yesterday I went to the climbing gym in the afternoon with some friends and had a good workout. I picked up some beer at the liquor store afterwards to relax with, and got ID'ed. I looked like crap, hair afright, pants covered in chalk, sweaty tee shirt, etc. The clerk had a little scanner that popped up the information from the driver's license stored in a a bar-code on the back, and when he scanned mine, he informed me that I had "some guy's ID."

Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 24, 2009, 02:45:57 PM
I looked like crap, hair afright, pants covered in chalk, sweaty tee shirt, etc. The clerk had a little scanner that popped up the information from the driver's license stored in a a bar-code on the back, and when he scanned mine, he informed me that I had "some guy's ID."

;D  How wonderful!   ;)

- Kate

Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 24, 2009, 02:45:57 PM
Are you for real? You mean there wasn't a time earlyish in your transition when people would call you "sir" if you were dressed in a Metallica tee shirt, old ripped up blue jeans with lots of grease stains, and beat up work boots changing the oil in your car? Well, bully for you. But some of us didn't transition when we were twelve years old.

Me: Yesterday I went to the climbing gym in the afternoon with some friends and had a good workout. I picked up some beer at the liquor store afterwards to relax with, and got ID'ed. I looked like crap, hair afright, pants covered in chalk, sweaty tee shirt, etc. The clerk had a little scanner that popped up the information from the driver's license stored in a a bar-code on the back, and when he scanned mine, he informed me that I had "some guy's ID."

Who was the reply aimed at, you didn't say?. Hopefully not me as I've never owned a Metallica T shirt or ever worked on cars!

NB, my comment was aimed at you, and I was a little snippy because you seemed to be belittling the experience that some of us have struggling to get people to see us as female.

Your post in another topic helps explain where you were coming from. You seem to have a fairly atypical experience, at least compared to a lot of people here, and I apologize for not recognizing that.

:icon_bunch:

Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 24, 2009, 02:45:57 PM
Me: Yesterday I went to the climbing gym in the afternoon with some friends and had a good workout. I picked up some beer at the liquor store afterwards to relax with, and got ID'ed. I looked like crap, hair afright, pants covered in chalk, sweaty tee shirt, etc. The clerk had a little scanner that popped up the information from the driver's license stored in a a bar-code on the back, and when he scanned mine, he informed me that I had "some guy's ID."

I was wondering why you had a guys ID? I changed all my ID over years ago when I started my transition.

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Post Merge: August 25, 2009, 12:48:37 AM

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Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 24, 2009, 08:09:13 PM
NB, my comment was aimed at you, and I was a little snippy because you seemed to be belittling the experience that some of us have struggling to get people to see us as female.

Your post in another topic helps explain where you were coming from. You seem to have a fairly atypical experience, at least compared to a lot of people here, and I apologize for not recognizing that.

:icon_bunch:

I don't think I've ever been belittling anyone. We all have different experiences through transition. The working on cars sinario was quite funny as I have never been able to do stuff like that and can't even put up a shelf properly. Also I've never listened to bands like Metallica and my musical taste is more what you call middle of the road. You certainly had a strange analogy of me being some kind of heavy rocker considering you know absolutely nothing about me.  ;)

I don't think Alyssa was trying to describe you specifically as much as she was just describing a general state of not having made a specific attempt to appear feminine.

Laura, yes, you are correct. I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole based on NB's earlier comments about "not getting glammed for anything;" that was about as "un-glammed" an image as I could conjure up, that's all. ;) But, NB, I understand you've had a different experience, and how that has affected your understanding of those of us who might identify with the idea in this thread. I just didn't understand before you explained it in recent posts.

The reason I have a male ID is that I'm only a little ways into transition, about half a year on hrt and nowhere near seeing any surgury as an option. I haven't yet changed my name. I have more important things to deal with. I'll probably change it around the beginning of next year, when my current license expires anyway. But the hassle of a legal name change isn't something I can deal with right now.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 25, 2009, 06:51:48 PM
Laura, yes, you are correct. I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole based on NB's earlier comments about "not getting glammed for anything;" that was about as "un-glammed" an image as I could conjure up, that's all. ;) But, NB, I understand you've had a different experience, and how that has affected your understanding of those of us who might identify with the idea in this thread. I just didn't understand before you explained it in recent posts.

The reason I have a male ID is that I'm only a little ways into transition, about half a year on hrt and nowhere near seeing any surgury as an option. I haven't yet changed my name. I have more important things to deal with. I'll probably change it around the beginning of next year, when my current license expires anyway. But the hassle of a legal name change isn't something I can deal with right now.

For me personally changing my name was a priority and very important. I did get pulled up in supermarkets when I still had a male ID in 2002. If they looked at my card they would sometimes ask who's card was it as it was a guy's card. I said it was mine and they didn't believe me. One time I got arrested as they thought I had stolen it. So I changed my ID to avoid these problems but at that time I wasn't yet in transition and surprised by it. I thought at that time I probably looked more like Jon Bon Jovi than a female. 

As for 'glammed' I have never glammed up for anything and prefer casual clothes and very little make up and I always try and look natural.

I dislike going out and about without makeup, jewelry, and a cute top and shoes, lol.  But on the rare occasion that I just don't give a damn, I'm still referred to as ma'am or miss.  The natural look works for some women.  But I really enjoy putting makeup on in the morning, fixing my hair, deciding which earrings work for this outfit and what shoes would compliment the look without leaving blisters on my feet.  I never go overboard and look inappropriate.  But I feel very confident when I'm ready for the day.  It somehow feels lazy of me not to go through my little ritual.

I even remember in high school, I was the only girl who'd spiral curl her hair in the morning just for school.  It caught on and I noticed more girls coming in with the same hairstyle, haha. ;)

Quote from: Maiden on August 26, 2009, 07:35:26 AM
I even remember in high school, I was the only girl who'd spiral curl her hair in the morning just for school.  It caught on and I noticed more girls coming in with the same hairstyle, haha. ;)

So you were a really early transitioner?

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 26, 2009, 12:07:19 PM
So you were a really early transitioner?

I pushed the limits in HS.  I wore my hair long, wore girl clothes, very little bit of makeup, was "one of the girls" with the party chicks (woo! lol) though my name was not changed and people didn't refer to me as 'she' unless they didn't know me.  If by transition you mean HRT, no.  If by transition you mean openly embracing my inner female, yes.  I took baby steps rather than suddenly one day proclaiming to be a woman. :)

Quote from: Maiden on August 26, 2009, 03:50:45 PM
I pushed the limits in HS.  I wore my hair long, wore girl clothes, very little bit of makeup, was "one of the girls" with the party chicks (woo! lol) though my name was not changed and people didn't refer to me as 'she' unless they didn't know me.  If by transition you mean HRT, no.  If by transition you mean openly embracing my inner female, yes.  I took baby steps rather than suddenly one day proclaiming to be a woman. :)

Did your school administration support you in this?

Quote from: xsocialworker on August 26, 2009, 04:29:04 PM
Did your school administration support you in this?

I did what I wanted really... it's not like I'd be expelled for wearing pink.  It was never an issue for them.

Quote from: Maiden on August 26, 2009, 04:58:26 PM
I did what I wanted really... it's not like I'd be expelled for wearing pink.  It was never an issue for them.

can I ask what state or community

 :D

Today, I went shopping in town.   

Nothing too unusual in that except it was my first full public outing as Pippa.

I have gone out in female attire before but usually I tone things right down with jeans and a T shirt, flats and no jewellery.   Today it was the full me, make up, heels, jewellery, the whole nine yards.

I was extremely apprehensive going into the mall as it was extremely busy (today is a Monday holiday in the UK).   I was imagining lots of rude comments and the fixed stares of strangers.

I shouldn't have worried.   I am sure I didn't completely pass but I certainly wasn't the centre of attention and the world carried on around me as if I was there in drab.

As someone with little personal confidence, the whole experience was a great.    I had a good wander round several stores, made a couple of small purchases and generally enjoyed myself for a few hours.

This has been a great boost in my confidence to become the real me and I see it as a strong move towards my full transition.   It is going to happen again soon.

Pippa

Quote from: waistclincher on August 31, 2009, 11:00:41 AM
I was extremely apprehensive going into the mall as it was extremely busy (today is a Monday holiday in the UK).   I was imagining lots of rude comments and the fixed stares of strangers.

I shouldn't have worried.   I am sure I didn't completely pass but I certainly wasn't the centre of attention and the world carried on around me as if I was there in drab.

Good for you, Pippa.  My first time out I thought everyone would stare, alarms would go off, and the gender police would rush in and cart me off.  But everyone ignored me.  It was very disappointing. ::)

------------------

Today I went to a Mexican restaurant in town that I had been going to for years.  I know most of the staff by name.  I had stopped going a couple of months ago because they still called me señor and amigo despite my appearance.  I was hardly glammed – a little eye makeup but otherwise bare-faced, with chinos, t-shirt, and a light jacket.  (Not like I'd just come from climbing, but not at my most lovely, either. :P)

The manager obviously recognized me but didn't use any gender-specific language.  The chip girl called me amiga but then gave me the hairy eyeball.  (She tends to look at people that way anyway, so it may not mean anything.)  The waitress, who had been very friendly with my spouse, called me amiga and evidently didn't recognize me.  Another waiter called me ma'am.

As I was leaving, one of the waiters I know better than the others, wished me a good day in a very friendly way, obviously recognizing me but avoiding any gender-specific language.

Not bad.  You've come a long way, baby.

- Kate

Stopped at the Salvation Army store yesterday and saw an old friend (she was my "girlfriend" in the sense two girls would have been when I was 19, 20 and we bump into each other occasionally over the years).

She said "I didn't recognize you"
I said "most don't now days"
"I see you got your hair done and stuff, what's up?"
"That might be more answer than you really want"
"Well, just go ahead and tell me it's alright"
"Do you know what a transsexual is?"
"Yeah"
"Well I was fighting against it before I ever met you and I just decided to stop fighting"
"cool"

If she was offended or put off, I certainly couldn't tell. I'm thinking about trying to get her e-mail and may renew the "girlfriend" relationship if she's willing.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on August 24, 2009, 08:09:13 PMI was a little snippy because you seemed to be belittling the experience that some of us have struggling to get people to see us as female.

Gee, I never had to struggle. I woke up one day and said I'm a woman and the world never saw me as male again.  ::)

I have to go now.  Time to shave.  My five o'clock shadow is peeking through my makeup.   :o

Julie

Amazing, I'm looking forward to get ma'amed too, someday (next year after my FFS, maybe).
For the time being, I get the blue ("male") button pushed everytime I go to a convenience store...
I'm looking forward to the day when I see the pink button being pushed...

These stories are great :) im glad the world is becoming a more open minded place :)

I haven't been sirred since before I started RLE and toward the end I was getting mamm'd in drab probably 50% of the time.

I really do not think the "M" on a driver's license gets noticed. I go to Canada every 2 weeks and it is "Hello ma'am" and "goodbye maam" everytime. In both directions. It is odd but I think they never look at it.

I have I think fortunately solved the problem of being discovered and causing receptionist confusion at the hospital during blood tests. My insurance finally changed my name (actually it was being read most of the time as "Danielle" rather than "Daniel") and my insurance also made the mistake of reassigning me as "F". Not sure if I should do anything about that one. Also at the hospital they changed my name before insurance did, without even showing them a court order.

This is great for me since it was essentially the last place I was going with the bit of annoyance of discovery. Of course there are some people who know, I am not in stealth, but in situations with strangers this is a great relief to be just who and what I am without being conspicuous.

One thing I have noticed is that perhaps some people think they are being read when they are not--A couple of times I have left situations upset and convinced I had been read, judging by the rudeness I encountered. But later, in further contact with the same people, it turned out my fears were groundless....unless macho guys have suddenly started calling other guys or TS's "honey" and "dear." Probably a lot of us are a little too self-conscious during our transitions.

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 10, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
I walked out of the house today putting practically no effort into looking girly.  I was ready for some funny looks.  Instead I got ma'amed where ever I went.

Go figure!

Julie

Actually, an incident like that is kinda what convinced me I'm ready to go full-time.  I went out, presenting as male and I still got called ma'am.  When that happens, I guess boy-mode is officially done, isn't it?

Me, too. It's happening a lot lately. I was wearing a gray male suit, no tie, no makeup, and a cashier said to me, "You'll have to run your card through again ma'am, it didn't take." When I'm androgenous it happens a lot. This time I presented myself as male. It must be the pheronemes.
Janine

good for you.   I wish I was as passable.   I know I am not passable yet but I am getting on with my life as the true me, warts and all.   Most people have the manners to keep their prejudices to themselves however, I was out shopping today and overheard a lady commenting.   Her exact words were 'Oh that is horrible, it's one of them'. 

I acted as if I had not heard.   To be honest, when I saw her, she looked more like a man in drag than I did.

I was hurt by her comments and almost felt like telling her to keep her thoughts to herself.  I am stronger than that.

I will be passable eventually, even if it the surgeon's knife has to come out, and I am not afraid to be the real me.   Other people's prejudices are their problem, not mine.

Not sure this fits in but I was at Wal Mart picking up a cash transfer at the desk, for which you have to provide ID.

I showed her my license, which photo was taken before I altered my appearance and the lady had to ask her co-worker if she agreed that the person pictured was actually me.

First time i was 'miss'ed, I was in tesco at university getting some groceries, and I went to ask at the help desk for something, in just baggy jeans, hoodie, no makeup, still sortof androgynous before full time.... guy goes to his friend : 'hey x. can you help this girl out while i do y?'

Was good, at the time. Not been called sir or him in roughly 3 years now lol, banish the boy!

Just thinking about the comments made by the woman on Saturday.   I know I have a long way to go to reach my goal of full femininity but I take one thing out of it.   At least someone has recognised me for who I really am.   They may not have liked it but that is their problem.

On a similar note, I walked past a man who worked as a temp in the office for several months.   I was positive that he would recognise me.   He was oblivious.   Shows you the difference between male and female perception.

I love being a woman.   I love everything about it, make up, clothes, gossip and the sense of calm wellbeing eostrogen brings.   I cannot wait for further improvements to occur.

Interesting day today (to me at least)

I got my license photo redone (it looks like my av now which, as pitiful as that is, it's a huge improvement)

Then we went to Merle Norman to ask about a question my wife had and while we were checking out a display of rings one of the staff walked by and said "you girls doing alright today?"

Later, we were picking up a couple of burgers for the kids at MickyD's and we ran into a lady we used to go to church with back before i came out and I was basically presenting fem, like in the av right?

And there wasn't any confused looks, or strained voice or anything that would have made you think she was uncomfortable with the situation.

I continue to be of the impression that almost everyone around here just "rolls with it"

I've heard stories of people talking about me after I left at a place or two but for the most part, no one acts as if anything unusual is going on.

(oh, and I updated my myspace page and took the privacy shield off it. so anyone local who turns me up in a search can see the full explanation of what's going on with me if they want.

I figure it's hardly any secret anymore so that's one way to "have my say" with people given you seldom get a chance to just discuss it with people)

Good for you, Laura. :)

I think it is a circular thing - the more we relax into it, the more those around us relax into it, which helps us relax into it.  (Other than the odd jerk, of course. >:()

The longer I am Kate, the more I realize what a long, involved process this is.  Sure, we can dress up and have our hair done, but to BE this person we were meant to be takes a lot of adjustment on our part and the part of everyone around us.

Congrats on your new DL picture!  Each of these steps count and lead in the right direction. ;)

- Kate

One thing that I like is that I sometimes pick up a very subtle "girl connection" with some of the women i see every day. There are a couple of young checkers at the grocery we usually use (one of them I know is still in high school) and it's not uncommon for one of them to share a tip about some hair product or something. fr instance, my wife had mentioned to one with long har that she liked the curls in her hair and the girl recommended a rpoduct, which we bought, and which I have used a few times including today.

Well today the other girl ask me - in what seemed to be the same sort of thing she'd have said to any other girl "what did you do to your hair?" and we chatted a second about how much we liked what the product did.

The same girl (with the long hair) had recommended some cholesterol stuff as a conditioner (we actually had overheard her suggesting it to someone else and ask about it) and today's conversation began with the second girl asking us had we tried it and what did we think of it?

I mean - it's really innocent stuff but I just soak it up.

At another store today I asked a stocker about a particular product i couldn't find and he started a "sir" (based on my voice I gues) and double-taked and switched to ma'am.

Poor confused thing.
;)

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Post Merge: October 25, 2009, 02:33:05 PM

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ok, this is a first.

At the drive through yesterday, ordered a drink, and the girl replies with a "please drive around ma'am"

!!!!!!!!!

I'm reasonably sure there's no camera there - and if not she ma'amed me on my VOICE!

I find that so hard to believe that I'm almost resigning myself to the idea that there's a camera I don't know about.

On the other hand, I like it so much I might rather not know...

Hey, go with it Laura!

The first time I got a sales call and they called me my dead wife's name throughout the conversation, when I finally hung up I was so excited I almost passed out. :P

Ah, these little things are SO important.  Crumbs for the starving.  Hallelujah! ;D

- Kate

What people here seem to miss, is that when you relax, and roll with it... and stop taking things so seriously... a ball gown to the grocery store etc.. People out there really arent looking for trans... or even aware to a large extent, or overall, Care... there are feminine guys, and masculine women, people just see what they want to. Relaxed presentation tends to lead towards the viewer just seeing the presentation. If you're too dolled up for the situation, it generally sticks out.... trans or not. If you look like you belong, then people dont question it.

Quote from: The None Blonde on October 26, 2009, 07:01:49 AM
What people here seem to miss, is that when you relax, and roll with it... and stop taking things so seriously... a ball gown to the grocery store etc.. People out there really aren't looking for trans... or even aware to a large extent, or overall, Care... there are feminine guys, and masculine women, people just see what they want to. Relaxed presentation tends to lead towards the viewer just seeing the presentation. If you're too dolled up for the situation, it generally sticks out.... trans or not. If you look like you belong, then people dont question it.

A very good post from you non blonde. It's like a white dot on a black background and less is more. The more casual and relaxed you are the more your feminine feature's will show up. If you dress up too much the more the male feature's will show. I pass best in jeans and T shirt with no make up.

Not necesserily... My point wasnt being more plain = more female. However, it was that dressing apropriately to the situation is key. Women have years to learn this... whats suitable where.... once you get that, you blend in. Its not a matter of wearing sack cloth to a ball so you look more feminine... by all means, wear a ball gown.... But wearing that same ballgown and evening makeup to the store for a pint of milk? nah.... people see someone out of place, and pay attention, you look like you belong, and they dont question what they see... just another woman or man. Its when you dont fit they question why... and if its there to see... they will notice.

Quote from: The None Blonde on October 26, 2009, 11:20:01 AM
Not necesserily... My point wasnt being more plain = more female. However, it was that dressing apropriately to the situation is key. Women have years to learn this... whats suitable where.... once you get that, you blend in. Its not a matter of wearing sack cloth to a ball so you look more feminine... by all means, wear a ball gown.... But wearing that same ballgown and evening makeup to the store for a pint of milk? nah.... people see someone out of place, and pay attention, you look like you belong, and they dont question what they see... just another woman or man. Its when you dont fit they question why... and if its there to see... they will notice.

Yes, I imagine it's difficult for those who are new to being feminine. I started as I meant to go on as far back as a kid and have stuck to a feminine appearance throughout, so I feel more natural. I think some recent transitioners do have problems with knowing what to wear and what is appropriate.

Its like a teenage thing... you stop wearing kids stuff and get to dress like a real woman finally! And invariably you go too far.., too grown up, too much makeup.... the usuals. It's over compensating and misjudging, but experience countermands it and you begin to learn. The sooner and more effectively one asymilates into the female social system, the faster one's fashion sense/sense of apropriateness in grooming and apearance develops... there are no shortcuts... we make our mistakes, and we learn from them, its just less time to make up the difference, and generally not the time when its expected for females to be 'experimenting' that way.

I hear people say this, but for me it's been just the opposite. I always found it hard to dress appropriately as a guy, but fitting among women has been like falling off a log. If anything, I tend to by less flashy than the women around me, since I just don't have that many accessories or quite the extensive wardrobe, so what I do have tends to be heavy on the basics. I have always been more tuned in to how women around me looked, while pretty much ignoring the men.

I do "experiment" -- in front of a mirror, whether at home, at friend's houses, or in a fitting room at a store.

Why do I always pass when I have facial hair, and not when I have shaved my face...?


I always get the whole, "Sir... Uh.. Miss? Uh... Dinosaur? ... Uh... Hamburglar?" Reaction when I have slight scruff...


But when its not and I have a SLIGHT shadow but no hair, I NEVER seem to pass...

Is this just a weird coincidence with me? Or do they think I'm a cross dressing girl more when there's scruff, versus not a girl at all with the shadow? Or something nuts like that?

It took awhile to figure out. But when I have a bit of scruff, women will say "are you okay dear?"

For some reason they think it has something to be with being depressed.

Granted, I do get depressed at times...But that has nothing to do with plucking or shaving

I didn't transition to be plain jane, sorry. I understand the point...but, there are plenty of women who don't want that for themselves. I'm not saying wear a ball gown to walmart, but, yeah... Maybe it's just where I live but most women over 18 seem to want to wear sweat pants and hoodies all of the time, that's the point where I say I'd rather not fit in.

I didn't say be plain... It was advice for those that dont pass, and want to improve thier chances I guess....

Here, Lots of girls wear sweat pants and hoodies... hell I am today (I'm sick *weak cough*) It's comfy... it involves no effort... yay!) Whereas sometimes i'll dress up nice and pretty... but for class its often not worth the effort. To go shopping or out? sure.

There comes a point where you reach a level of comfort with yourself about you. And you dress how you want. If you pass... its a new style, or your style, if you dont... i guess it may out some because of the attention it draws. However, My intial thought process was aimed towards apropriateness.... the 'teen experimentation' can be an at home, or out thing... we all do it, but we've also been looking at other women our age. Some fubar, some dont. It's just random.

*sneaks away before the femininity patrol lynch her for wearing no makeup either.*

Quote from: The None Blonde on October 27, 2009, 05:10:33 AM
I didn't say be plain... It was advice for those that dont pass, and want to improve thier chances I guess....

Here, Lots of girls wear sweat pants and hoodies... hell I am today (I'm sick *weak cough*) It's comfy... it involves no effort... yay!) Whereas sometimes i'll dress up nice and pretty... but for class its often not worth the effort. To go shopping or out? sure.

There comes a point where you reach a level of comfort with yourself about you. And you dress how you want. If you pass... its a new style, or your style, if you dont... i guess it may out some because of the attention it draws. However, My intial thought process was aimed towards apropriateness.... the 'teen experimentation' can be an at home, or out thing... we all do it, but we've also been looking at other women our age. Some fubar, some dont. It's just random.

*sneaks away before the femininity patrol lynch her for wearing no makeup either.*

Yes I agree and I mostly wear jeans, sweat pants, T shirts, hoodies and trainers (sneakers). I rarely wear make up and I'm not percieved as male.

I do think that many transsexuals dress like ->-bleeped-<-s and do not have any insight or experience on how to dress normally and they usually stick out like a sore thumb! the original thread highlights the fact that the poster is surprised they are not getting read in their old jeans and no make up etc. But in reality the majority of females are not dressed up like a dogs dinner all the time and many do not wear make up. There are a lot of transsexuals who have a stereotype view of a female which shows in the way they dress.

An outsiders perception of a male or female is related more with a persons physical appearance and not their clothing or make up. 

heh, I think TV is more to blame....  the women showed on tv are always glam... plus the way that the glossies hound celebs that go out in jeans and a teeshirt and no makeup....

I see what you girls are talking about when it comes to the GG's I see every day. The problem for me is that I'm not only not built like a GG but my weight gives me a VERY sterotypycal male profile - androgynous just doesn't work for me from the neck down - I have too much to compensate for.

A lot of the GG's around me can be chubby or outright fat and pretty, excuse me for saying so, homely looking - but there's no doubt of their gender.

But if I don't give the observer ANY fem cues with makeup or whatever, there is NO WAY I'm giving off any sort of fem vibe. At most they would consider me gay (speech pattern and mannerisms and such)

When I was CD (repressing being TS) I found that many CDs and TVs would get stuck in a fashion era or age.  People my age would want to dress in crinoline and poodle skirts and angora sweaters.  (When's the last time you saw that outfit at Wal-Mart?)  Or, like some GGs, they would get stuck at some age – dressing as a 15 year-old when in their 40s.  It isn't a pretty sight.  I don't know enough other TS's in person to know if they (we) do the same thing.

When I came out to my adult daughter and showed her a picture of me in skirt and heels and satiny blouse (and full beard), she remarked with some surprise: "Oh! You dress age-appropriate."

I often dress a little nicer than many women do around here, but I dress my age and within the normal range.  I do sometimes wear jeans and T (no sweatshirts, thank you), but I figure I have to work a little harder to present a female image than many natal women do.  And I've always dressed up a little, even when I was pretending to be a man.  That's just me. ::). 

(Ignore the avatar picture taken on slob day. :P)

- Kate

I love how there is this assumption that once we are "comfortable" with ourselves and the novelty of the "teen phase" wears off we stop caring how we look. There's also an assumption that if you aren't doing that you must look like a classic street walking TV/CD. If you wear makeup more than for special occasions or work etc...then you're not normal...uh oh! If you don't know how to dress yourself or apply makeup then sure...I could see how that might be true. Ever think that you're trying so hard to fit in that somewhere along the way you overcompensated too much in the OTHER direction? Sure...there's a time and a place, but how often? Go ahead and be the type of woman that you want to be and I'll go ahead being the type I want to be.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on October 27, 2009, 10:36:00 AMthe original thread highlights the fact that the poster is surprised they are not getting read in their old jeans and no make up etc. But in reality the majority of females are not dressed up like a dogs dinner all the time and many do not wear make up. There are a lot of transsexuals who have a stereotype view of a female which shows in the way they dress.

Oh, I see what you're getting at. That makes sense. I think I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. You're talking about figuring out what is appropriate; my struggle has been figuring out what looks decent on me, assuming that it's the appropriate for the situation. And that's much easier when "appropriate" means "dressy."

So, yes, I can go out in jeans and a tee shirt and no makeup (assuming that I'm at a good place in the laser cycle and don't have any beard shadow), but that's because I've spent a lot of time finding the right jeans and the right tee shirts (plus the right boring, everyday shoes) that look reasonably feminine -- on me -- without being the slightest bit dressy.

Or maybe I do err toward looking like a prostitute or a drag queen, but I'm just not all that girly to begin with, so I just end up on the femmy side of appropriate. That would make sense, since my friends seem to think I'm girlier than I think I am. :icon_2gun: :icon_chick:


p.s. -- mija -- I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what NB and NB were saying. "There comes a point where you reach a level of comfort with yourself about you. And you dress how you want," seems to me to mean something more like "you become confident and adept in choosing your own style rather than mimicking others" rather than "eventually you become a slob."

Quote from: mija on October 28, 2009, 12:12:57 AM
I love how there is this assumption that once we are "comfortable" with ourselves and the novelty of the "teen phase" wears off we stop caring how we look. There's also an assumption that if you aren't doing that you must look like a classic street walking TV/CD. If you wear makeup more than for special occasions or work etc...then you're not normal...uh oh! If you don't know how to dress yourself or apply makeup then sure...I could see how that might be true. Ever think that you're trying so hard to fit in that somewhere along the way you overcompensated too much in the OTHER direction? Sure...there's a time and a place, but how often? Go ahead and be the type of woman that you want to be and I'll go ahead being the type I want to be.

As I said hon, that's not what I'm saying...
I wear makeup.... I dress nicely.... I just dress the oposite way too at times...  My point was that when you get to a certain point, you have asymilated to the female social way of thinking.... how things are done...... my point was you learn where its apropriate for these things,.... one doesnt wear a cocktail dress to change a tyre right? A woman is confident in herself, be it in makeup or not.

Some women can build up a makeup shield... hide behind it, live in  a mask. It gives them confidence. But women and men are the same really... deep down. We're just human, and we live, sometimes, we can't be bothered... sometimes, we want to impress. The fact we can choose to go to the store in no makeup and a pair of jeans is not a sign that we relinquish femininity, or dont ever dress differently. It's that we can... and that we are confident enough in ourselves, as women to just live.

Life is a catwalk.... but someone has to bolt that stage together first and strike it after :P

QuoteMy point was that when you get to a certain point, you have asymilated to the female social way of thinking.... how things are done......

The issue I think you may be missing is the inherent judgement in that quote above, None Blonde.

I assimilated to a female way of thinking about the age of four. I transitioned some 37 years later.

Assimilating to *the* female way of thinking requires, inherently, that there be a singular sort of way that females think.  Note that in my statement above I said "a way" not "the way" -- the difference may be minor, and some could say that I'm arguing semantics.

They'd be right.

Semantics is a huge part of my work, though, and semantics is all about *meaning* -- a semantic argument is an argument about meaning -- what does someone mean.

That phrase I quoted is, strictly speaking, meaning there is a right way to think and a wrong way.

I often say there are 3 billion ways to be a woman.  Because there are three billion women, and no two are alike.

I am a woman who is accused -- exclusively by transfolk -- of being "too sexy" and dressing "too provocatively".  This isn't because I have a stereotype of how a woman should be or dress, but I have a strong sense of my identity and I am simply expressing it.

I don't own a gown. I do own a lot of nice dresses, some risque, and I'm just as likely to wear a VS mid thigh strappy dress to the store as I am to wear one of the three pairs of jeans and half a dozen t shirts I own.

Not because there is a problem with wearing hoodies and sweats, but because I don't find hoodies and sweats all that comfy. I'll take my knit dress over that any day. Neither of them have any real effect on a person's *own* perceived sense of femininity -- but they have a lot of effect on the perceptions of others.  Hence the statement you made about "the way" instead of "a way".

And I attract attention when I walk through a store. A lot of it.  And, to be frank, I like it -- because I have a pretty good idea what people are thinking since during my phase where I was nearly paralyzed by fear over such, I decided to start asking people.

This makes me difficult for some trans folk to be around. They don't want to be seen.  They don't want to be noticed.  They want to live as a "normal" person -- to be commonplace, ordinary, average, everyday.

Nothing wrong with that, either.

Except for me.  I am not normal.  Or ordinary. Or everyday, or typical, or commonplace.  I'm also a catty high maintenance sort of gal with champagne tastes and tap water budget, lol.

None of which has anything to do with my being trans -- all of that was part of who I was before I turned 4.

I can be primly dressed, no skin showing from neck to toes, sitting still, and get attention.

Nor am I in a "teen phase", and I don't have to have make up on, and often don't, but I also put forth basic effort -- 10 minutes max each day doesn't hurt me.

I never took care of my self before I transitioned -- I didn't take care of my clothes, or my body, or really give much thought to my appearance overall. Hell, I couldn't even stand to look in the mirror, and shaved maybe twice a week unless the ex got on my case.

So for me to dress in such a fashion as is "common and typical" at my grocery store would actually be wrong for me, personally. It would be a sort of personal betrayal of my self.

And you wouldn't want me to do that, would you?

dyssonance I just want to say that in my head, I'm right there with you - if I ever get to the point that I am built right for that sort of look wild horses won't be able to keep me from it and if folks don't like a 50+ woman (by then) trying to be pretty then that sucks for them.

You personify to me what the heart of all this is - being confident in who you are and running with it. (To the extent that I still have confidence issues and need positive reinforcement, it's NOT because of my birth gender, it's because of 100 pounds of ugly fat that stand between the girl I know I am and the girl those around me can see)

If that girl is a sexy high-maintenance hotty, or if that girl is a "jeans and t-shirt" tomboy or that girl is a "reserved and proper lady" it makes no difference - as long as it's an expression of who you really are just like this cisgirl on your right and left live, without even thinking about it, a life that expresses who they really are.

:icon_chuckel:

Quote from: heatherrose on November 01, 2009, 01:37:20 PM

Oh....is that all the jeans and t-shirts that you own? :icon_no: tisk tisk

:icon_chuckel:

Yeah -- and, worse -- I bought the Tees on clearance at Walmart and the jeans are way too nice to really wear when working on the house stuff, lol.

No pants, though, outside the jeans.  Probably be a few years before I go there...

Quote from: heatherrose on November 02, 2009, 05:48:18 AM

Walmart!? I prefer to be seen shopping at the higher end stores,
Bonne Volonté and Sauvetage Arme'e and that ilk.

Sigh.

Would be nice.

As it is, I make do on 400 a month. Means I get to be far more creative!

Quote from: heatherrose on November 02, 2009, 05:48:18 AM

Bonne Volonté and Sauvetage Arme'e and that ilk.

Yeah, I shop at Sal's, too, but I have to go to my daughter's town to hit Willy's. :)

- Kate

I simply prefer Macys, but I'm a total Bohemian lol I have exactly 2 pairs of jeans (got those at Macys too) but jeezus, I dress age appropriately- nice but not over the top, and a tiny bit of makeup goes a long way. You can have your own style and still blend in without looking like the mutant offspring of a clown and a Vegas showgirl. :laugh:

Quote from: heatherrose on November 02, 2009, 10:17:02 AM

Mutant showgirl clowns are people too.

unless they're aliens.

I belive she refers to the theories of extra terrestrial life rather than posession of  US citizenship.

Not much theory really exists as to what aliens would look like.... at the moment, we know the possibility for life exists... its arrogant to discount it. Life on earth existed because of freak chance, location, and outside effect. The chances of similar happening are quite high. However imagie if the KT extinction hadn't taken place.... Evolved dinosaurs.... reptilian species could be likely.

:icon_chuckel:

Lol.... Now I was being serious and discussing planetary geoscience :P not funky scifi :D

:icon_chuckel:

*rolls eyes*


And science actually explains it. As yet, we havent a clue... naming species? jesus a bit premature...

Rode my bike to the store today. on the way I passed a couple of toughs who seem to be looking for trouble  :P

When I passed one of them questioned the other who exclaimed..."That's a girl ya stupid"  :laugh:

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 28, 2009, 06:37:24 PM

When I passed one of them questioned the other who exclaimed..."That's a girl ya stupid"  :laugh:

Don't take this as racist but yesterday for the very first time the Asian shopkeeper gave me the 'love or luv' which all Uk females get.  felt good as on previous occasions he's always given me THAT look!   :D

It is said that other races see less of difference between men and females in a different race... that a chinese transgirl could pass perfectly here... but at home, not so much... It's fact base is... loose, but i can see how it could apply.

I do remember that first female reference :) it was a massive boost and kept me going :)

There weren't many people at church today on a holiday weekend.  A man I've known for eight years walks in, looks around and says to me: "Hi Kate.  Am I the only man here?"

Then I went to the grocery store.  I was wearing jeans, had no makeup and my hair hasn't been behaving.  My face is bruised from some minor surgery and I was feeling crappy and particularly unlovely.  One of the checkers wanted to chat about Thanksgiving, which turned into a session of us commiserating about being older women.  It really perked me up. :)

- Kate

Went into town to finish my Christmas Shopping today.   I had to buy presents for my Mum and my cousin.   I bought my Mum some Moulton Brown smellies in one of the Department stores.   The lady who served me asked if I would like to go to an unattended till and called me Madam.

I would have preferred Miss but at least she was polite enough to call me by my chosen gender.   It put a big smile on my face ;D

I'm sure I didn't pass but at least she accepted me without question.   She made my day.

P.S.   Why do Shopping Centres always need to have their heating on full blast.   Today was like shopping in a tropical rain forest not England in December.

Quote from: The None Blonde on November 29, 2009, 08:45:02 AM
It is said that other races see less of difference between men and females in a different race... that a chinese transgirl could pass perfectly here... but at home, not so much... It's fact base is... loose, but i can see how it could apply.

I do remember that first female reference :) it was a massive boost and kept me going :)

You are absolutely right and different races expecially indian men and women cannot tell so easily with us English folk. The opposite goes with Thai TS's which to me look far more passable but to their own race, they can be read quite easily.

I went to a convenience store today in what I thought to be "Drab"

As I waited at the counter the two clerks were helping a guy that couldn't figure out how to operate the soda machine  ???

The manager walked in and I said hello (Not realizing it was the mgr. quite yet).

She then asked the clerks "Is anyone helping her?"

Nices Virginia. but then, you do look female to me.

I stopped at a health food store on the way home from the office where I was volunteering.

A Hispanic salesperson came up and said, "Can I help you find something, mami?".

I told her I was looking for vitamins, and she gave me some made specifically for women, telling me, "These are what you need."

I used to get Get Ma'amed an awful lot long before I started transitioning. I think since I've been on HRT things have got worse and sometimes I get read the wrong way.

Went shopping at the weekend aqnd got a Miss by the car park attendant.    :)

Went to the convenience... I dressed kind of neutral but more girly.
"Miss, I think you dropped something."  :D

Airport, facial hair visible (or so I thought), looking for a bathroom. I hesitated as I walked, until the janitor(ess) pointed me to the right direction. ;) :laugh:

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on April 22, 2010, 07:45:17 AM
I used to get Get Ma'amed an awful lot long before I started transitioning.

Me too, and I take it as as a pleasant good sign. (I should, right?).
Do you get misread more than before HRT? ???

Around four years ago, I got ma'amed with short hair and a hoodie and jeans. :o

Still not sure how that one happened.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't pass if I really wanted to, I'm not sure how any of the "ma'am"s have ever happened. Makes me wonder if I really could try to transition if it would actually work out. o_O

Quote from: Karla on April 22, 2010, 07:27:53 PM
Went to the convenience... I dressed kind of neutral but more girly.
"Miss, I think you dropped something."  :D

Airport, facial hair visible (or so I thought), looking for a bathroom. I hesitated as I walked, until the janitor(ess) pointed me to the right direction. ;) :laugh:
Me too, and I take it as as a pleasant good sign. (I should, right?).
Do you get misread more than before HRT? ???

No more and no less!

I was at the NYC public library last weekend visiting a gg friend and as we were leaving the woman working security called us ladies and asked to check our bags on the way out.  This has happened several times before but usually there is some back pedaling when they take a closer look, but not this time. 

I did spend the next day presenting female and we got called "ladies" several times.   I find that it is way more common to use gender specific articles like ma'am in the US (I got ma'amed 4 times when I went to Florida last Christmas when presenting male) than here in Canada, at least when speaking English, French is a different story.

Jenna!

Quote from: jennajane on April 27, 2010, 10:13:02 AM
I was at the NYC public library last weekend visiting a gg friend and as we were leaving the woman working security called us ladies and asked to check our bags on the way out.  This has happened several times before but usually there is some back pedaling when they take a closer look, but not this time. 

I did spend the next day presenting female and we got called "ladies" several times.   I find that it is way more common to use gender specific articles like ma'am in the US (I got ma'amed 4 times when I went to Florida last Christmas when presenting male) than here in Canada, at least when speaking English, French is a different story.

Jenna!

I think I would be in a state of shock if I wasn't called madam. What is your revealing problem if they take a closer look?

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on April 28, 2010, 11:57:31 AM
I think I would be in a state of shock if I wasn't called madam. What is your revealing problem if they take a closer look?

The fact I was presenting male at the time.  I thought that was the point of this thread??

Quote from: jennajane on April 29, 2010, 05:10:38 PM
The fact I was presenting male at the time.  I thought that was the point of this thread??

I didn't realise that the point of this thread 'getting ma'amed Without Getting Glammed' was that you dressed up as a guy?

Quote from: jennajane on April 27, 2010, 10:13:02 AM
I was at the NYC public library last weekend visiting a gg friend and as we were leaving the woman working security called us ladies and asked to check our bags on the way out.  This has happened several times before but usually there is some back pedaling when they take a closer look, but not this time. 

I did spend the next day presenting female and we got called "ladies" several times.   I find that it is way more common to use gender specific articles like ma'am in the US (I got ma'amed 4 times when I went to Florida last Christmas when presenting male) than here in Canada, at least when speaking English, French is a different story.

Jenna!

That's great Jenna   :)

I get taken aback a bit when I get Ma'amed or Ladied while presenting male (or what I think to be male...LOL)

At any rate, it always feels good  :icon_chick: