omg this is so evil...
http://www.antirape.co.za/ (http://www.antirape.co.za/)
one word
handgun
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv259%2Fjetdriver%2FShooting%2520Stuff%2Ftaurus-pt145mp-left-full.jpg&hash=97dd6aeaf2c8979bbebdc7f8b38a1edcc66e1f02)
I wonder if it has ever actually come into 'action' ?
Not fond of handguns. And that just looks plain wicked. And what if you forgot and met your boyfriend for an intimate rendezvous.
I think this would be less deadly.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.itaser.com%2Fimg%2Faccessories%2Ftaser_c2_icon.png&hash=1eebb745f4bb04eed8ded1d4fccd18ec8f764dc5)
or maybe
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mace.com%2Fuploads%2Fproducts%2Fthumbs%2F420_252_80136_MaceTripleActionPersonal_standalone_1.jpg&hash=36f632c6f610d40dc75d398e8f0e23b94fab112c)
And it can fit in a purse.
one word
handgun
Two words, South Africa, where rape is epidemic and such weapons are beyond the reach of most the people who need them. But hey, don't stop believing that the entire world is your block.
Quote from: tekla on January 20, 2010, 03:23:06 PM
Two words, South Africa, where rape is epidemic and such weapons are beyond the reach of most the people who need them. But hey, don't stop believing that the entire world is your block.
in case you don't keep up, they also have unique anti-carjacking tech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDrzMGdYWZc#)
Shades of James Bond. "No Mr. Goldfinger, I expect you to be extra crispy."
Quote from: tekla on January 20, 2010, 03:23:06 PM
one word
handgun
Two words, South Africa, where rape is epidemic and such weapons are beyond the reach of most the people who need them. But hey, don't stop believing that the entire world is your block.
Just chill out dude, you're being a real ->-bleeped-<- lately. I realise you don't care what people think of you and you consider a lot of people's opinions naive or idiotic and they need enlightening by you. But this is a support site, where people come to feel accepted and safe to voice any opinions - you're just making this an unpleasant place. It does not take much effort to phrase things in such a way that it is not confrontational. You're a smart person, I'm sure you can manage it. Also you might find this give you more influence anyway, people will listen more if you are not on the attack all the time. You always sound so well read and know so much about a huge range of things. You have heaps to offer, but despite this you seem to be lacking in empathy. We let you get away with it far too much. This sort of bullying bull->-bleeped-<- is unacceptable and I think everyone is sick of it.
If I get any more complaints, of which there are plenty, I'm just going to take a much harder line. You can decide to stay and play nice or bugger off, your choice. But hey, if you feel what you are doing is acceptable don't stop believing it, except you won't be on this site much longer.
If anyone has any further complaints about Tekla please let me know.
Thanks
Nicki
Some of those anti-rape devices are pretty horrible but at the same time the rapist should have thought twice about committing one of the worst types of violent crime imaginable. Personally, I would prefer a standard weapon such as those others already posted (gun, taser, pepper spray). You would want to stop your attacker from ten feet or more away, not wait until your clothes are already torn off. Let's hope that none of us ever have to be a victim of this and for those who already have been, you have my empathy.
I remember seeing this before. I thought it was hilarious, really.
Of all nightmares through the ages, they made this one real. Toothed vaginas.
Yes, any rapist who ends up with these spikes deserves it I think. I just doubt it's ever really done it's job. It's more like a novelty item, don't you think?
I suspect, here in the UK, where people routinely get arrested and charged with assault if they injure someone who is actually breaking into their home, that anyone using it would be put in prison charged with GBH!
We do have a very strange legal system in the UK which can make self defense, and/or defense of ones property a rather delicate balancing game.
Thankfully I live in the postcode with the lowest recorded crime rate of anywhere in the UK!
rejennyrated your comment actually set me thinking if this counts as using more than necessary force, though i'm inclined to image that a jury will find in favour of the victim rather than defendant...i mean this is not burglary or theft, the defendant is going to commit gbh himself...but then again there's no case law to support my view.
silverfang: yes it's called vagina detata
janet: short range weapons are good if you're able to take them out of your purse in the first place before a planned stalking attacker gets you down, and that's not always possible counting in the element of surprise, so for double safety you can combine this with pepper spray ("double-tap" rule from zombieland)...but then again i've read comments somewhere that this thing could not be seen as conclusive evidence of rape if the victim and defendant are bf/gf relations, since it could be some evil bitch trying to get even with her bf who pissed her off..
Quote from: milktea on January 21, 2010, 08:44:34 AM
janet: short range weapons are good if you're able to take them out of your purse in the first place before a planned stalking attacker gets you down, and that's not always possible counting in the element of surprise, so for double safety you can combine this with pepper spray ("double-tap" rule from zombieland)...but then again i've read comments somewhere that this thing could not be seen as conclusive evidence of rape if the victim and defendant are bf/gf relations, since it could be some evil bitch trying to get even with her bf who pissed her off..
One time I saw this ad for bras with a pouch in the middle that comes with pepper spray, mace, or a taser.
Quote from: tekla on January 20, 2010, 03:23:06 PM
one word
handgun
Two words, South Africa, where rape is epidemic and such weapons are beyond the reach of most the people who need them. But hey, don't stop believing that the entire world is your block.
something tells me the OP was being sarcastic and injecting a bit of humour into a topic that could get depressingly serious.
Chill....I found the post quite amusing...maybe thats just my sarcastic humour though
Here in Australia (and I suspect the UK is very similar), it's in fact illegal to have ANYTHING that could be described as a weapon in your possession in public. That includes pocket knives, pepper spray (which is illegal for private possession here), everything. If you're caught with those items you could be charged. It's ridiculous.
The following is a link from the Queensland police website on the subject of self defense, and it is almost disgusting and borderline dangerous.
http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/personalSafety/generalAdvice/options.htm (http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/personalSafety/generalAdvice/options.htm)
Worse is that I found that page several years ago, and they haven't made it better since. I've been tempted to actually complain to someone about it.
My favorite parts are...
QuoteAs a rule, the law generally does not allow the carrying of anything that can be described as a weapon. This includes mace, spray dyes, most personal alarms, or any other items which have been specifically adapted, such as sharpened combs, knives carried for the purpose of self defence etc.
QuoteIn an attack or confrontation there are a number of options available that do not require physical self defence to fend off the attacker.
# Faking a heart attack, asthma attack, epileptic fit, faint or mental illness;
# Faking a coughing fit and asking for a glass of water;
# Calling out to a fictitious person behind the attacker e.g. "William, help me" - if you are convincing there is no doubt that the attacker will look around;
# Tell the attacker that you have AIDS/Hepatitis;
# Verbal response - negotiate with the attacker;
# Tell the attacker that "Someone will be coming back in a minute";
# Ask to go to the bathroom to remove tampon/insert diaphragm;
# Be revolting - throw up, defecate/urinate/pick your nose;
# In the case of an attack involving a knife or other weapons, use the 'fantasy' option to remove the threat of the weapon, to enable escape e.g. "I've always fantasised about this happening to me, but the knife makes me feel uncomfortable...";
And that's just the start, there's an entire section explaining how to effectively scream for help.
QuoteOne of the most effective self defence techniques is screaming effectively. An effective scream involves making a loud, guttural roar, generated from the depths of your diaphragm. The scream should be aggressive and 'roar-like' indicating your anger at the attacker, rather than a high-pitched squeal of fear. An effective scream has the potential to achieve a number of results.
I'm actually offended and sickened that this is published on the police website. And with no legal options for defense. It's like they want us to be attacked.
@ milktea Short range weapons, like pepper spray or tazer, are effective if you have them in hand. If you feel hinky in a given situation, get armed. But the best method is to not be in those situations in the first place. Or be in a group.
Quote from: Ashley4214 on January 23, 2010, 07:41:21 PMMy favorite parts are...
And that's just the start, there's an entire section explaining how to effectively scream for help.
I'm actually offended and sickened that this is published on the police website. And with no legal options for defense. It's like they want us to be attacked.
Oh, wow. That's ridiculous. Never would've guessed. "William, help me" Yeah, that'll save you.
Stay home at night.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 23, 2010, 09:14:34 PM
Stay home at night.
That only works until someone comes into your home. I mean it doesn't happen AS often, but it happens a fair amount.
Rape is an utterly terrifying and humiliating experience. In the past I have actually been raped. In point of fact It's happened to me twice, once pre SRS and once after. Both occasions thankfully a very long time ago, but you will understand why I don't tend to admit this often.
So please take it from me it is really not something to joke about. EDIT (I'm not implying anyone was by the way)
Sadly when you are in that situation you realise that you basically have two options: 1. fight and possibly get killed or injured or 2. accept the situation, try to get it over with as fast as possible, and hope that he doesn't kill you afterwards.
I chose option 2. Happily I am still here and undamaged but it's not an experience that you forget easily.
Take martial arts classes, practice..
If you can't "carry" a weapon, "become" a weapon.
"That only works until someone comes into your home. I mean it doesn't happen AS often, but it happens a fair amount."
-------------
Anyone breaking into a home is fair game. An alarm system and 45 semi automatic will do the job.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 24, 2010, 04:49:31 PM
"That only works until someone comes into your home. I mean it doesn't happen AS often, but it happens a fair amount."
-------------
Anyone breaking into a home is fair game. An alarm system and 45 semi automatic will do the job.
Again...
Firearms are not universally available...
Actually, rape prevention is incredibly easy:
http://www.feministing.com/archives/004756.html (http://www.feministing.com/archives/004756.html)
Quote from: Alyssa M. on January 24, 2010, 06:25:02 PM
Actually, rape prevention is incredibly easy:
http://www.feministing.com/archives/004756.html (http://www.feministing.com/archives/004756.html)
Wow... that's actually even more useless than my link... I know it's supposed to be all deep and profound, but I just can't help but feel like it's stupid and naive.
Sorry, no offense is intended but, really? Yeah I suppose if someone tries to rape me I'll tell them something like "what kind of a message does this send".
QuoteAgain...
Firearms are not universally available...
The beauty of being able to move to a place that values freedom.
Sadly, while in some countries people are more or less citizens in other countries they are subjects. As far as I'm concerned, any government that does not respect an individual's right to be free from bodily harm and to protect and defend themselves accordingly is a country of subjects not citizens. The UN as well as Amnesty International also have similar "non-violence" beliefs. They condemn governments who abuse their "citizens" and call for action but at the same time don't believe people should be allowed to take up arms to defend themselves whether it is from each other or against their government. It is called hypocritical.
Quote from: FlanKitty on January 20, 2010, 09:12:50 AM
one word
handgun
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv259%2Fjetdriver%2FShooting%2520Stuff%2Ftaurus-pt145mp-left-full.jpg&hash=97dd6aeaf2c8979bbebdc7f8b38a1edcc66e1f02)
I wish. Had my pistol permit pulled earlier this year. Love NYS, the Police, and the ATF. not.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 24, 2010, 04:49:31 PM
"That only works until someone comes into your home. I mean it doesn't happen AS often, but it happens a fair amount."
-------------
Anyone breaking into a home is fair game. An alarm system and 45 semi automatic will do the job.
Unless you're in the UK, in which case you get sent to jail for assaulting the person breaking and entering, and they get a suspend sentence.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 24, 2010, 07:35:34 PM
The beauty of being able to move to a place that values freedom.
Accessibility of firearms is not the definition of freedom.
All places value freedom, what differs is just how it is expressed.
Someone approaching from 20 feet away can be on top of you before you even get your hand on your pistol. Did you know people don't always fall on the first shot? No, unless you shoot them in the face you are going to have to shoot them again, and again, and again. That's not gonna happen with most people and you all know it. You'll start packing heat, maybe get it out as he takes you down, then he'll take it from you, beat you with it, prolly rape you anyway then shoot you with it.
I liked the feministing post, but I kept looking for "the onion" somewhere on that first website, lol.
There's a reason for the knight-stick other than the "non-lethal" option.
Police in several countries are trained how to handle knives.
Hand to Hand combat is taught heavily With firearm training in case of both military and police forces.
A gun is good for protecting yourself from an assailant from afar, but in close personal contact, a well placed blow is safer for you and more effective, and you don't have to "draw" your hands, elbows, knees, teeth, etc...
Quote from: rejennyrated on January 24, 2010, 03:48:54 AM
So please take it from me it is really not something to joke about. EDIT (I'm not implying anyone was by the way)
so sorry to hear about this...i created this post only because i was so amused by the vagina dentata invention, hope it didn't cause any bad memories to surface :'(
ashley i'm truly shocked about queesland police...it's like reading the latest hoax google service on april fools...and just out of curiosity how bad's the crime rate over there?
Quote from: milktea on January 25, 2010, 09:54:55 AM
so sorry to hear about this...i created this post only because i was so amused by the vagina dentata invention, hope it didn't cause any bad memories to surface :'(
ashley i'm truly shocked about queesland police...it's like reading the latest hoax google service on april fools...and just out of curiosity how bad's the crime rate over there?
I was about to say that I didn't think our crime rate was as bad as the US, but then I did some quick googling. It is true that some crimes like homicide are much less common here than in the United States, and I suspect that most crimes statistics here would be a little bit lower than the US.
More relevant to the topic however, on the subject of rape, we apparently have one of the highest rates of rape in the world, and pretty much THE highest rate in the western world.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)
the highest rate of "reported" rapes
Iceland's nr. 10 on the list.
Quote from: Keroppi on January 25, 2010, 02:47:12 AM
Unless you're in the UK, in which case you get sent to jail for assaulting the person breaking and entering, and they get a suspend sentence.
Remind me to stay away from socialist kingdoms. Justice starts with the individual not the government.
Post Merge: January 25, 2010, 05:14:06 PM
Quote from: Miniar on January 25, 2010, 04:16:53 AM
Accessibility of firearms is not the definition of freedom.
All places value freedom, what differs is just how it is expressed.
Freedom and liberty require no laws to inhibit how a person wants to live. It is not freedom when the government dictates the conditions.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 25, 2010, 05:11:12 PMFreedom and liberty require no laws to inhibit how a person wants to live. It is not freedom when the government dictates the conditions.
So, everything should be legal?
And nothing should be taxed and tax-money shouldn't be used to pay for anything?
If everyone is free to do whatever they want without limitation or fear of arrest or any such thing do you really believe it'll lead to some sort of utopia?
There's no such thing as total and unlimited freedom because you always have to have at least one restriction for there to be any freedom at all.
That restriction being "you don't have the freedom to infringe upon the freedom of your fellow man". Without that restriction, there is no security, and without security, there is no freedom at all.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 24, 2010, 07:35:34 PM
The beauty of being able to move to a place that values freedom.
i.e. don't live in the states. If you lived in my country you would realise what a crock your so called freedom and liberty is, you live in a cage.
We can't own handguns in my country unless you belong to a special club. Standard gunshops don't stock them. You also can't carry weapons in public. The upshot of this is it gives police more power to deal with armed gangs and so on. It is a much safer place to live than the US.
I agree with Miniar.
I'm glad you survived Jenny and I think you made the best decisions you could at the time. Sometimes it is better to not fight to survive another day. What awful experiences those must have been. I wish these things did not happen to anybody.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 25, 2010, 05:11:12 PM
Freedom and liberty require no laws to inhibit how a person wants to live. It is not freedom when the government dictates the conditions.
No, that's a nonsense, simply because it is unrealisable except on an Island with one person. (Even then it's debatable).
Freedom means that such restrictions as exist are based upon demonstrable social need and not dogma.
We restrict assault, theft and so on. We restrict certain types of relationships, especially concerning children, close relations, non-humans.
These and some others are demonstrable.
Some may attempt to justify restrictions based upon percieved association. There is a link in the News section to a newspaper article which makes a point of highlighting the crossdressing habits of some guy convicted of sexually assaulting some children. https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,71023.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,71023.0.html)
There is a long held belief, that was fairly prevalent when I was young, that all deviation form sexual norms were linked. So, someone indulging in homosexual behaviour was equally likely to fancy a spot of beastiality.
But these notions are a demonstrable nonsense.
Society, especially in socialist Kingdoms, is removing restrictions on behavaviour and lifestyle where these have no other bearing on society.
There is not and shouldn't be, any restrictions on relationships between people of the same sex for example.
The problems that remain in socialist Kingdoms are social acceptance. These problems exist in all societies. But it would seem that only in non-socialist republics can someone attempt to attract political attention, by promising to effectively legalise physical assaults on gay children.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,71455.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,71455.0.html)
Like it or not as long as we live in this world, rape is going to happen.
It can happen to anyone, child or adult, male or female. (I know from experience).
Total prevention is not possible, but we can limit our exposure by being aware of our surroundings, alert and through education.
Sarah L.
QuoteWithout that restriction, there is no security, and without security, there is no freedom at all.
No, people do not need restriction. They need responsibility. You do not need a taxing Government if people are responsible. People learn to be responsible from their parents not government paid schooling. The world has gone crazy thinking that as long as they are within the narrow law they are right. Ethics and morals can not be regulated or laws written or enforced to control people. It is a socialist myth. People live better fulfilled lives when they can be responsible for them selves and can have self confidence without government interference. We have less crime when the community supports freedoms and responsibility rather than laws. There is more private charity than when you tax and redistribute the wealth. People are equals not subordinates as you have in big government. We do not need security that only brings depression. Free people have new exciting things happen everyday that challenges them.
Don't walk around bra less in pumps with a T-shirt that says "RAPE ME" on the front with "I DARE YA" on the back
Lets tone things down a bit.
Sarah L.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 26, 2010, 07:06:16 PM
No, people do not need restriction. They need responsibility. You do not need a taxing Government if people are responsible. People learn to be responsible from their parents not government paid schooling. The world has gone crazy thinking that as long as they are within the narrow law they are right. Ethics and morals can not be regulated or laws written or enforced to control people. It is a socialist myth. People live better fulfilled lives when they can be responsible for them selves and can have self confidence without government interference. We have less crime when the community supports freedoms and responsibility rather than laws. There is more private charity than when you tax and redistribute the wealth. People are equals not subordinates as you have in big government. We do not need security that only brings depression. Free people have new exciting things happen everyday that challenges them.
This is all very nice and idealistic. In an ideal world I think you are right. But realisticly many people are not nice people, that don't take responsibility for their actions, they don't participate in community. Also I think if you take a different perspective on this - a community that supports freedoms and responsibility rather than laws actually becomes a governing body, a type of government.
I like taxes, I like how my taxes pay for health care so that I can take my child to the doctor whenever she is sick and not have to worry about paying, I like how my roads are tidy and not full of potholes, I like how I get clean water coming out of my taps with no effort from me, I like how I can ring 111 and a fire engine, ambulence or police man will come to my aid, all without cost, I like how our public schools are free, I like how we have parks maintained by the city council, I like that I can call noise control when the neigbours are too loud and won't shut up, I like the security of knowing that if I lose my job I can still feed my family. Taxes are good.
Quote from: lisagurl on January 25, 2010, 05:11:12 PM
Remind me to stay away from socialist kingdoms. Justice starts with the individual not the government.
Post Merge: January 25, 2010, 05:14:06 PM
Freedom and liberty require no laws to inhibit how a person wants to live. It is not freedom when the government dictates the conditions.
socialist kingdoms? It's called empathy and cooperation, you wouldn't understand it.
This is an utter waste of time. Both camps here have different ideologies, Individualism vs Collectivism, and neither is willing to see that the other might be just as valid, or at least as valid to the point of making no difference in running a functioning society. ::)
My dog is a 150lb Blue Tick Hound and people that would not be the least bit intimidated by me and a handgun give him a wide, wide berth. Dogs don't think twice before they jump to your defense, can sense an attack coming before you can, and will fight to the death for you. I'll take my big, dumb, clumsy "Otis" over a Smith&Wesson any day.
agree to disagree and leave it at that
either be civil or leave the sandbox for more mature participants.
I have a Cocker Spaniel, a rather small - med. dog....He's very friendly but also rather protective
Although he did run and hide when three guys tried to jump me about a year ago
The police arrested the guys and then they and the EMTs helped me retrieve my doggy
Other than some bruises, I was okay. The guys were taken to face prior charges and I may have to testify whenever the case comes up here
All in all, it's a good idea to learn some sort of self defense. Even if that defense is called "Run Fast" it is better then some of the other options
Stay in well lit areas and hang with a group whenever possible. A boring friend is much better then a scary stranger
Don't be afraid.....but be aware of your surroundings and ready
I hope that helps
- Virginia :icon_chick:
Quote from: Ashley4214 on January 27, 2010, 03:07:54 PM
This is an utter waste of time. Both camps here have different ideologies, Individualism vs Collectivism, and neither is willing to see that the other might be just as valid, or at least as valid to the point of making no difference in running a functioning society. ::)
I agree that there seem to be those two extremes, to simplify...
Individualism - people use their own initiative and efforts to solve their problems.
Pros: Variation, energy, movement - lots of different solutions and interests flourishing.
Cons: People stomping on each other.
Collectivism - people work together to solve problems.
Pros: Strength in numbers, harmony, cooperation.
Cons: Conformity, mundanity, people expect others to solve their problems.
- Now I think we could synthesise these and some countries (including my own) seem to have tried - so why is it they have created a system that celebrates stomping on each other in a struggle for conformity and mundanity? Seems the wrong synthesis.
You just tell them they are doing a big mistake and that you are a man and you have AIDS. >:-)
Quote from: jade on February 02, 2010, 05:18:15 AM
You just tell them they are doing a big mistake and that you are a man and you have AIDS. >:-)
And get your face kicked in.
Or, get a "that's okay, I have it too!" type response....
okay we will try the other way, surrender and spread our legs wide apart and let them tear us apart inside and cause damage that will require skin grafts and expensive revision surgeries. xox :-X
Quote from: jade on February 02, 2010, 07:14:57 AM
okay we will try the other way, surrender and spread our legs wide apart and let them tear us apart inside and cause damage that will require skin grafts and expensive revision surgeries. xox :-X
Because those are the only options you have?
It was a joke when I said tell them such and such. First of all, I hope it doesn't happen to anyone. Secondly, a self-defense course may be helpful. Having pepperspray is handy and a good kick in the balls if it can be done and scream as loud as possible. From what I have gathered through people I know, rapists like the domination factor and victimising, if a victim keeps cool and acts like she is not so unkeen, it might turn the rapist off. Obviously my word isn't the bible, but that's what i think.
I don't see rape as something to joke about.
The reason I hate topics like this is that I don't believe they actually help women; rather they subject women to feelings of guilt if they are raped, because they must not have "done the right thing" to avoid being raped. It is nobody's responsibility to avoid rape (though, sure, there are some things common sense tells you are risky, like going clubbing alone and getting plastered -- but that's not how most rapes happen).
I think the most effective way to prevent rape is to speak out, to make rape victims feel empowered to come forward, to prosecute rapists harshly, to make it clear to everybody that rape will not be tolerated. Because today, far too often, it is tolerated. And not just to speak out against rape, but against all the sexism in our society that makes men think it's okay to treat women as lesser people than men.
If you end up in a situation where you fear you might be sexually assaulted, anything you read on the Internet probably won't apply to the situation; you probably know better what to do than some anonymous stranger who never met you or the rapist.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on February 02, 2010, 10:31:40 PM
The reason I hate topics like this is that I don't believe they actually help women..........you probably know better what to do than some anonymous stranger who never met you or the rapist.
Well said Alyssa, i couldn't agree more. Its like asking how to prevent any accident or injury, you can take precautions but none can be sure it won't happen. Let's hope it doesn't happen but they do happen so awareness need to be spread amongst victims like you said.
In fact, far and away, if you are raped in the first-world/Western Society, it's going to be by someone you know, in someplace you felt safe - like child abduction, its rare that some random stranger is doing it, and far more likely that its a familiar or, worse, a family member.
you know, in response to imo overly restrictive laws on carrying personal defense items.... maybe it would be worth any punishment or fine you might get from having one of these.... in a real blitz attack scenario, realistically a pistol or a taser would probably not help. but a deafening personal alarm or a pepper spray would be worth carrying, illegal or not.
everyone should be carrying a 'sound grenade' i forget what the real name of it is, but its basically a super loud personal alarm that once activated cant be turned off for a significant amt of time. it will cause hearing damage if you dont cover your ears, so the potential rapist will need to choose between his ears or you!
Wow I just don't get all of this anti-self defense nonsense. "A pistol or taser would likely not help." Then why do police and military worldwide carry these? Unlike civilian citizens, police and military deliberately put themselves in harm's away making the risk even higher for them. It is sad that such helplessness is in so many people's minds and I believe a lot of it is driven by the media and movie industry. We all see over and over again the infamous woman who keeps falling down, can't get up, and can't seem to do anything to resist her attacker in films.
That's TV. Get real. The first step to self defense is being aware of your surroundings. So many of these scenarios that everyone keeps talking about where weapons wouldn't help are always describing situations in which the woman is being snuck up on by the rapist. Google "Condition Yellow." There is a lot more to self preservation than just carrying something. Believe it or not, if you choose not to be helpless, you likely won't be. In fact, a potential criminal is likely to see that and automatically choose another target without you even knowing you were momentarily considered.
It is sad that so many women and transwomen feel so disempowered about their own self-preservation. Personal alarms and pepper spray can be great tools but are proven to be less effective against a violent attacker than tasers or firearms which immediately begin stopping them. I often carry weapons but I sometimes don't yet I don't always feel less safe when I'm unarmed because I am always in Condition Yellow when in a public place. Google these terms. Most people want to be in Condition White and feel that Condition Yellow is somewhat paranoid. Everybody likes to feel "comfortable." Having strict awareness of your surroundings at all times requires more energy. Ultimately, it is what you want out of life. If you want to put your life into the hands of others to watch out for you which is basically like rolling dice, then Condition White. If you want to stand up as a woman and say "I will not be a victim," and take actions accordingly similar to playing chess, Condition Yellow. Something as simple as making a mental note of all exits to a building upon entering could save your life yet very few people do this. Enough said.
Quote from: elementalincognitus on February 16, 2010, 01:01:36 AM
it will cause hearing damage if you dont cover your ears, so the potential rapist will need to choose between his ears or you!
And your ears. I don't know, a sound grenade just doesn't appeal to me. Why would a taser be less useful than a "deafening personal alarm?"
Britney, If that works for you, then go for it. I am not trained in using guns, nor do I ever want to be. I don't like guns, and for me to be remotely useful with it, I would need to actually figure out how one works.
For police officers -- who generally go into those nasty places trained, armed, and with radio backup, and are still much more likely than I am to be shot -- and for people who are very comfortable with the weapon of their choice, that's fine. It's just that people who aren't familiar or comfortable with guns, like me, probably won't get much if any benefit.
My real life way of avoiding violence involves not being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can bet I'm aware of my surroundings after dark or in unfamiliar or potentially sketchy areas. I'm good at keeping things "yellow" and avoiding any potential increase in the threat. I'm playing an odds game: The overwhelming likelihood is that I won't ever be the victim of a violent crime. I see many people who consume their lives with worries over things very unlikely to pass, and I don't want to do that.
And as far as the topic of this thread goes, trans women are far more likely to be attacked, raped, and murdered by people they already knew, in places they felt safe, than by some "potential criminal" on the prowl for victims.
I'm not saying don't arm yourself. I am saying be aware of your surroundings and be careful with whom you place your trust. And I am saying that if you choose to arm yourself, you need to put work into making sure you know how to use your weapon.
I think the advice to get a surplus flash bang grenade is kind of awesome. Pull the pin, close your eyes, cover your ears, and hope it works like in a Tom Clancy novel.
police and law enforcement dont go into dangerous situations causally strolling along in street clothes and possibly a few drinks in. they go in sober, with backup, and guns/tasers drawn. sure, if you could walk around in any potentially dangerous situation with your taser or pistol drawn and ready, then yes, they would be very useful.
the other problem with them is that they can be both turned off, and turned against you. if you dont neutralize your attacker before he gets to you, then youve just given him a weapon if he didnt have one already. even if he doesnt turn it on you, after he pulls it away from you, its absolutely useless.
thats why a sound grenade is tactically the best thing you can have.. even if its taken from you, it cant be turned off. it will continue to draw attention to your situation at a deafening level- and even if your attacker tries to disable it, thats time hes not focusing on you. do you think that someone would really risk taking the time to rape you with a 130db siren going off? and, if its clear on the labelling that there is no way to turn it off, then theres no point in threatening you to turn it off. he can either commit a murder with that siren drawing people and police to it, or get away from you as fast as possible. its instantly makes the situation very public, and the encounter cannot be made private again by disabling it.
Quote from: Miniar on February 02, 2010, 07:51:12 AM
I don't see rape as something to joke about.
I absolutely agree, I don't mean this in a boastful way, but I consider myself an attractive woman, I get hit on and chatted up by guys all the time, I have met some weirdos, had some lucky escapes, its not nice when you find yourself in a situation with a guy who doesn't know how to treat a woman, sometimes leading to rape.
I love being a woman, but its totally different to being a guy when it comes to rape, I just try and be safe and stay safe.
p
Quote from: elementalincognitus on February 16, 2010, 11:01:33 AM. . .
I guess you're right, I just figured since the most commonly stated reason seems to be "you won't have time to pull it out" and that you'd have to pull out an alarm anyway that it didn't make much of a difference.
How about just using a real grenade; rape this you son of a bitch, see you in hell in about 4 seconds. I'll be the one with all the demons around me listening enviously to my stories...come say hi.
Anyway I once saw a siren necklace and bracelet that looked nice...maybe that could be practical.
Quote from: elementalincognitus on February 16, 2010, 11:01:33 AM
the other problem with them is that they can be both turned off, and turned against you.
That's the reason for "situational awareness", because if you're in "condition white" the criminal has already won, possession of a PDW (personal defense weapon) or otherwise. (and by that I don't just mean a firearm, if it means stopping rape, gouging their eyeballs out will work wonders)
A loud alarm may be quite tactical and I'm not knocking it. However, the argument that you may not have time to pull a weapon would equally apply to pulling an alarm. I don't believe that there is a one size fits all approach to personal defense. Different tools have different pros and cons as do different tactics. Some techniques work better for some situations than others. If in a crowded area where say someone tries to grab your purse, setting off an alarm may cause them to run away. If however the person is under the influence of a drug and is therefore immune to the loud sound and feels invincible, you will have to try something else.
Pepper spray is something I generally recommend to people who aren't real familiar with self-defense tools who want to protect themselves. What makes it great is that it is relatively inexpensive and there are generally less restrictions on it in most jurisdictions than there are on deadly weapons. The canisters can quickly create a distance barrier between you and even multiple assailants. I have actually used this in self-defense and I was quite surprised at how it worked as the attacker was 10 feet away and I barely discharged it. Unlike guns and tasers, you don't have to be as direct with the hit so in a panic even if you spray it slightly off course it will likely spread out and get in the attacker's eyes to a good enough degree to give you time to create more distance.
Again, different things work for different situations. Sometimes it is not always people you have to protect against but dangerous animals. People can be killed by a vicious or rabid dog and a gun would be very handy in such case.
Regardless, whether you are armed to the teeth or have nothing at all, the key is being aware of your surroundings and not needlessly taking chances. If a robber sees two women, one on each side of a street where one woman is walking tall and composed and is clearly aware of her presence and displays mannerisms that she is clearly not afraid whereas the other woman is blissfully unaware with her hands full and a phone to her ear, who is the criminal likely to pick?
There are so many little things people can do to minimize risks. An example is how you carry your wallet and how you hold it when it is out. Another example is how you position yourself in a restaurant. Are you seated and facing in such a way that over 80% of the restaurant including the entrance is out of sight? Or, do you have a pretty solid (over 50%) view of the environment? We love to think these things are paranoia but if it is paranoid, why do animals do it? Virtually every form of life utilizes some form of situational awareness. The police are not always there to protect you and it is always possible that even emergency calls (i.e. 911) go unanswered, get disconnected, or require you to hold. Take personal responsibility.
this whole subject terrifies me, ive had an experience in my past and looking to my post operative life knowing someone could take me like that. im no really able to defend myself physically just how do you deal with rape?
i feel like crying thinking of it
Quote from: Ms Delgado on February 17, 2010, 02:47:24 AM
this whole subject terrifies me, ive had an experience in my past and looking to my post operative life knowing someone could take me like that. im no really able to defend myself physically just how do you deal with rape?
i feel like crying thinking of it
$You can learn to defend yourself. It doesn't take a lot of strength to break a nose and a broken nose comes with intense pain and loss of vision.
To deal with it, you just learn, eventually, that it's not your fault, there's nothing you can do about it now either. It's in the past and by allowing it to pain you any further you're just allowing yourself to continue being abused.
So, you let go, because you have to.
To think this thread is still going on and yet still going nowhere.
I obviously have my own opinions and side of the debate that I believe is right, but the only thing further I wish to contribute to this thread right now is...
I think everyone here should stop acting morally superior to each other, stop acting morally superior because you feel arming yourself is only making the situation worse or because you don't think a civilised society should condone that kind of behavior, and stop acting morally superior because you feel that not arming yourself is being irresponsible and carrying a victim mindset.
Different people have different opinions, and ultimately in either case, the person that most needs to take responsibility for their own safety is themselves. It's not really your business to try and help someone who doesn't want it.
We also commonly picture attackers lurking in the shadows somewhere who are strangers. What we forget is that statistically a lot of crime (violent and property) is done by someone you know. There is an old saying "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." I think that just as much as being aware of your surroundings is essential, it is also extremely important to consider the company you keep around. This is something people commonly forget. So it may pay to raise more eyebrows over questionable intentions of a recent friend than the occasional shady character in a store parking lot. Food for thought.
Why does everyone here seem to be assuming that only women get raped, and only men rape?
Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 12:42:26 AM
Why does everyone here seem to be assuming that only women get raped, and only men rape?
Because victim stereotyping is funner... x_x
(not to say that male sexual assault victims don't exist, rather they are often thrown under the rug because society doesn't want to address the issues of power/control that are the root of sexual crimes in the first place)
Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 12:42:26 AM
Why does everyone here seem to be assuming that only women get raped, and only men rape?
Same reason that when we speak about breast cancer we presume the victims to be female.
Because that IS the case 99% of the time and I think it's pretty pedantic to make a fuss over it. ::)
Quote from: Ashley4214 on February 18, 2010, 01:25:31 AM
Same reason that when we speak about breast cancer we presume the victims to be female.
Because that IS the case 99% of the time and I think it's pretty pedantic to make a fuss over it. ::)
No, it absolutely is not. Men DO get raped, it's not some tiny thing that barely ever happens, and women DO rape. It's just as big of a deal when the stereotypes are reversed - and the idea that "men almost never get raped, it's not a big deal anyway" prevents men from feeling comfortable coming out and saying it or getting help.
Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 01:30:44 AM
No, it absolutely is not. Men DO get raped, it's not some tiny thing that barely ever happens, and women DO rape. It's just as big of a deal when the stereotypes are reversed - and the idea that "men almost never get raped, it's not a big deal anyway" prevents men from feeling comfortable coming out and saying it or getting help.
The only statistics that exist indicate that women are rapists and men are raped between 1 and 10 percent of the time. However much under reporting there may be, I think it's just silly to argue that a male isn't the perpetrator and a female isn't the victim at least a majority of the time.
You can't rule everything with such an incessant degree of political correctness.
You asked why the assumption was being made, my argument is that it's because it is by a long way the most common variation of the crime, and I stand by that.
Even if you assumed a completely equivalent rate of rape tendencies between men and women (which I think is silly too), just the fact that men are on average physically stronger than women would be enough in itself to swing the statistics into a female predominance. And that's not even considering the other physical differences between men and women which all other things being equal would make men more likely to succeed at commiting the crime (and as such probably more likely to attempt it too).
Lets play nice kids, this is suppose to be a discussion, not to accuse other posters of thinking the "wrong" way.
Quote from: Ashley4214 on February 18, 2010, 01:35:09 AM
The only statistics that exist indicate that women are rapists and men are raped between 1 and 10 percent of the time. However much under reporting there may be, I think it's just silly to argue that a male isn't the perpetrator and a female isn't the victim at least a majority of the time.
You can't rule everything with such an incessant degree of political correctness.
You asked why the assumption was being made, my argument is that it's because it is by a long way the most common variation of the crime, and I stand by that.
Acting like rape is always a hetero affair carried out by men against women just because other forms of rape are less common is not valid, just like acting like people are always straight and gender-normative is not valid. It is not valid
because it makes things worse for minority victims. Belittling or waving away this fact with the tar of "political correctness" is silly and irrelevant. If I wanted to be "politically correct," I wouldn't spend my time drawing people vomiting blood and violating each other. This is about creating an inclusive social environment for marginalized people, not about feeling warm and fuzzy or patting ourselves on the back.
Women rape women. Women rape men. Men rape men. It happens all the time. It may be less common than male-on-female rape, but frankly, I don't care. Acting like women are the only victims and men the only perpetrators marginalizes those for whom that is not the case.
Hey y'all.
Prison.
Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 01:45:28 AM
Acting like rape is always a hetero affair carried out by men against women just because other forms of rape are less common is not valid, just like acting like people are always straight and gender-normative is not valid. It is not valid because it makes things worse for minority victims. Belittling or waving away this fact with the tar of "political correctness" is silly and irrelevant. If I wanted to be "politically correct," I wouldn't spend my time drawing people vomiting blood and violating each other. This is about creating an inclusive social environment for marginalized people, not about feeling warm and fuzzy or patting ourselves on the back.
Women rape women. Women rape men. Men rape men. It happens all the time. It may be less common than male-on-female rape, but frankly, I don't care. Acting like women are the only victims and men the only perpetrators marginalizes those for whom that is not the case.
When speaking to someone I assume they're heterosexual too until they indicate otherwise.
People say stuff (as opposed to just omitting stuff) that upsets me because of their generalizations and ignorance all the time. But I'd rather be upset and have a level of support proportional to the frequency of the subject than have to be hyper careful with everything I say to preempt the risk that I might offend somebody.
I don't expect society or individuals to self censor themselves out of hypersensitivity, including when it offends or upsets me. It's just something you have to live with if you want to be free to say what you want and not have to over think every single thing you say.
Quote from: Ashley4214 on February 18, 2010, 02:02:15 AM
When speaking to someone I assume they're heterosexual too until they indicate otherwise.
People say stuff that upset me because of their generalizations all the time. But I'd rather be upset and have a level of support proportional to the frequency of the subject than have to be hyper careful with everything I say to preempt the risk that I might offend somebody.
When speaking to someone, I assume I don't know what their sexuality is until they inform me, and guess what? I'm right.
It's not about not offending people, it is, as I have said multiple times, about creating a supportive environment for people to deal with what happened to them and get help.
This conversation is going nowhere. Sigh...
Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 02:07:10 AM
When speaking to someone, I assume I don't know what their sexuality is until they inform me, and guess what? I'm right.
It's not about not offending people, it is, as I have said multiple times, about creating a supportive environment for people to deal with what happened to them and get help.
This conversation is going nowhere. Sigh...
You're right it's not, because we don't agree and there probably isn't a definitively right answer.
This isn't a formal publication, it's a forum thread. It's just individuals giving their opinions. For that reason, I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to make generalizations and assumptions as you would in any discussion.
What would you prefer people do?
The majority of the content of this thread isn't applicably gender specific in any case. It just makes the assumption that male perpetrators and female victims is much more common, which it is.
This topic has dealt mostly with the issue of an unknown assaillant attcking a lone person, which is overwhelmingly male against female, and is also a very small portion of the rapes that actually occur. Of the rest, it's definitely mostly men against women, but not nearly to the overwhelming extent that the attacker-lurking-in-the-shadows type of attack is.
Alyssa, good points. I didn't mean to suggest that male-on-female rapes are a minority phenomenon, but rather that there are a good deal of rapes that do not fit that profile.