You will never get a satisfactory answer to this question, as the answer is given in either religious or scientific context. Religion can provide you with tons of "evidence" and science can also provide you with tons of "evidence to the contary". On the basis that nothing comes from nothing and that something must come from something ,i.e, humans create machines-we are the machines masters, who then is the master of humans, if not an entity/creater like God?  Then again why did he create humans after Dinosaures? Science can prove the existence of Dinosaures but religion has no place for them.  Evolution can prove our emergence as a human race through time and show we are closely related to apes, but what is the purpose of apes? The closer we think we get to resolving the question of God, the further we get away from finding the truth-it becomes a lifetimes work, which no one will ever genuinelly be able to satisfy one way or other. The question of God only seems to be relevant if we like the idea of going to "heaven", which is an encouragement to behave "decently" on earth to earn our ticket to heaven. God can not be an Alien, as even Aliens have to come from somebody's existence. The answer to your question is God's maker-which ever form or shape that takes. Though who created God's maker and God's maker's maker and his/her maker will never be answered on this planet or this life. Your question is more valid than the truth or not about the Bible, because if you can prove God was created, then we know there's a more powerful entity than God and God is not unique like we humans think we are!

There is no answer to this question.

If, like most philosophers, you define "god" as an infinite being, then god is a being that extends through all space and time in all the dimensions, however many there are.  A thing that is created, however, does not exist before a certain point in time, and exists after that point.  If the preceeding is the case, that thing is not infinite in time.  Therefore "created" is not a concept that can be logically applied to the concept of "god."  But this bit of logical gymnastics has nothing to say about whether an actual being that matches the concept of "god" exists.

If, like anthropologists, you define "god" as any one of many powerful supernatural beings that have never been human, then there can be as many creators of gods as there are gods.

Some people think God is eternal, with no beginning, but i've never been able to comprehend that... so I like to think that he (or she) was born.

I would consider myself an agnostic, bordering on atheism. I have no reason to really believe either way in the existence of a higher being. I've never been baptized, so I wasn't brought up attending church. the more I read the bible, the more I think it's just a bunch of bigoted, outdated tripe and that people take it entirely too literally. and then there's the fact that there is so much scientific evidence pointing to the reality that evolution existed that makes me laugh at the idea of one "being" creating the earth and everything on it. I mean, come on. that's just not rational thinking. however, since I have no actual evidence that there is or ever was a "god", I remain agnostic. I can't believe something or disbelieve something just because a book told me to do so.  So my answer to this question is ; What does it matter? Can you prove whether there's a god or not? No, you can't.

Quote from: Yvonne on May 18, 2007, 07:07:04 PM
I would consider myself an agnostic, bordering on atheism. I have no reason to really believe either way in the existence of a higher being. I've never been baptized, so I wasn't brought up attending church. the more I read the Bible, the more I think it's just a bunch of bigoted, outdated tripe and that people take it entirely too literally. and then there's the fact that there is so much scientific evidence pointing to the reality that evolution existed that makes me laugh at the idea of one "being" creating the Earth and everything on it. I mean, come on. that's just not rational thinking. however, since I have no actual evidence that there is or ever was a "God", I remain agnostic. I can't believe something or disbelieve something just because a book told me to do so.  So my answer to this question is ; What does it matter? Can you prove whether there's a god or not? No, you can't.

Well, to be fair, Yvonne... we can't disprove the existence of God either.

And I agree with you on at least one major point: Some people take it entirely too literally. But in the end, the Bible was never intended to be a science book or even a history book. It is a collection of stories, letters, writs, poems, declarations, and religious laws from people that span a timeframe of 1400 years.

And when you said, "I can't belive something or disbelieve something just because a book told me to do so," I offer a resounding AMEN. To me, faith is far more personal than a rule book or a book of commands. But that's my thought.

Good post!

Quote from: Chandra21 on May 17, 2007, 03:35:52 PM
Some people think God is eternal, with no beginning, but i've never been able to comprehend that... so I like to think that he (or she) was born.

Yep, this is definitely an area of theology that's hard to grasp. I think this is why it's so fascinating.

My thoughts....
I think God existed before time existed. Before anything came into being, before the 'big bang' or creation of the universe, time itself did not exist. God created all things, I believe He created time too. God was, before the birth of chronological time. God is the eternal 'I Am'.

-Emerald 

Quote from: Emerald on May 18, 2007, 07:34:58 PMGod is the eternal 'I Am'.

Well now that is fascinating! May I ask why you phrase it like that dear Emerald?


From what I know you are quite correct that 'God' was before the 'big bang' massively long before. I do think time 'itself' has existed, but I am unsure of the context of any duration of such; The passage of time has always been in my recollection. That may, however, just be the best this human here can manage. This said, time... is not the same here as it is elsewhere, let me phrase it like that.

I think this topic can easily be expanded into discussing time and eternity... Surely, this is not limited to a thestic worldview.

Oh David... NO!  If we were to get into the laws of entropy, we would completely lose it!

God and entropy don't get along! 

I had a woman who worked for me years ago. She had a doctorate in psychollogy and was working as a development engineer for me.  She also had a Jewish heritage and was very active in reestablishing her faith in her family.  She told me once that as a scientist she realized that God could not exist.  But spiritually, she felt compelled to bring her family back to the roots of her ancestors.

"I learned that in many cases the science we know and religion can't get along.  I've come to accept that and just not worry about it," she told me.  I had to think it over and I decided she had the most level headed approach to this of anyone that I had ever met.  Her family's history was important and she wanted to carry on their rich traditions for her children. 

It was then and there that I began to rethink my own faith which had been totally abandoned after being relieved of my membership in the Mormon Church.  Yes there are ways to live with both.  And someday we will likely learn how they walk hand in hand.

Cindi

Quote from: Kimberly on May 19, 2007, 02:33:13 AM

Quote from: Emerald on May 18, 2007, 07:34:58 PMGod is the eternal 'I Am'.

Well now that is fascinating! May I ask why you phrase it like that dear Emerald?

As recorded in the Old Testament (Exodus 3:14), Moses asked "What is your name?, the answer given was "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh". It is one of the most famous verses in the Torah. God is the uncreated Creator in the Hebrew conception, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. The King James Bible interprets "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" as "I Am that I Am". "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" is variously translated into English as "I-shall-be that I-shall-be", " I am who I am", and "I am what I will be". In the USA, some religious groups believe the phrase, or at least the "I am" part of the phrase, is one of the names of God, or to a lesser degree, the sole name of God. I also occasionally hear Southern Christians use the phrase "The Great I Am" in reverence to God.

-Emerald 

Thank you Emerald, VERY much.
^*curtsey*

Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 19, 2007, 05:03:34 AMYes there are ways to live with both.  And someday we will likely learn how they walk hand in hand.

Cindi

What a lovely statement. (no applaud button, but I still have to mention when I like words said.)

I'm christian and believe in God.  nobody made God.  he create everythin'  u see & dont see.

An that has to be the most fruitloopy part of this whole arrangement. It all depends on what you believe. ^*ponder* I bet there is deeper meaning in that...

Yes, it depends on what we believe. To be sure, our worldview and beliefs will dictate a lot of what we think and say... especially when it comes to the question of "who created God."

Quote from: Emerald on May 19, 2007, 05:47:03 AM
God is the eternal 'I Am'.  ...
I also occasionally hear Southern Christians use the phrase "The Great I Am" in reverence to God.

One also hears:

I'm The Hoochie Coochie Main
and everybody KNOWS I'm Here

from the self-same corner of the universe...

"Father, please forgive them because they don't know what they're talking about"

Quote from: Jeannette on May 19, 2007, 02:27:03 PM
"jFather, please forgive them because they don't know what they're talking about"

Would you mind clarifying what you mean here? Thanks.

Quote from: David W. Shelton on May 19, 2007, 02:28:27 PM

Quote from: Jeannette on May 19, 2007, 02:27:03 PM
"jFather, please forgive them because they don't know what they're talking about"

Would you mind clarifying what you mean here? Thanks.

You know, the last moments of our Lord.  His last words.  They know, they just pretend they don't.

"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." I think is more accurate; An still very VERY apt.

That said, as far as I know the atheists and agnostics an heck every religious sect and such among us are just fine. It isn't quite like what has been written on the subject... Some of it is mind, I think, but not in the context and entirety... never mind though, I have little nice to say about that travesty. Go with the thought that some is divine, some is human an follow your heart to find truth. Anyway, now as far as I know all the blasphemy (an asinine concept in and of itself) is not going to damn folks to some place unpleasant or anything like that. Children will be children after all, but still...

But yeah, deep down people have a far better understanding of what is than the concious selves will ever let on (^*yells* "Which is very relevant for this board!") An this said, in most probability really does not mean much right here, right now.


So, in the end ^*shrug* humans are all in the same lot really. Not a bad thing really, this is a pretty fancy species deep down. But currently, you really do have to look pretty deep for some but some others... SO IMPRESSIVE! ^*BEAM*

But er ^*ducks* sorry I am doing that dodging the topic thing my dear friend Val hates so I shall just shush now...


Blessed Be ya'll.