Kitty, there's more to you than just looks. The feelngs will always be there. How you feel about yourself is paramouunt. I have large feet and hands and broad shoulders. I've lost 40 pounds. Being out as a trans person has be the best seven pplus years of my life.

Quote from: Jamie D on October 27, 2012, 07:11:41 AM
Hey Chris, I don't want you to get down on yourself.  There are many paths your journey can take.  Mine certainly has not been smooth, so I can identify with your concerns.

The thing is, you will need to find ways to deal with your gender dysphoria.  If not through some form of HRT, then perhaps in some form of presentation.  The dysphoria does not go away.

Perhaps, the best thing you can do for yourself is to continue any sort of therapy or counseling you have ongoing.  I wish you well.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

We need to stop parroting the party line that "dysphoria never goes away"

It's different and unique for all people, and we should recognize that yea, sometimes it's just a damn phase or confusion.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 27, 2012, 10:21:21 PM
I'm sorry, but I disagree.

We need to stop parroting the party line that "dysphoria never goes away"

It's different and unique for all people, and we should recognize that yea, sometimes it's just a damn phase or confusion.

So then comes the argument, is it really gender dysphoria? 20 years for me and it still hasn't gone away, so how do I justify to others that I need treatment when i'm being lumped in with people who can "get over it."

I wished for the longest time that it was a "phase" or "confusion" but it wasn't and I don't feel that someone who is just in a phase or confused has the same condition as me.

I almost started to cry when I read your post. I have done the yoyo hormone thing a few times and I'm currently struggling with it again. I appreciate all the responses and thoughts.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 27, 2012, 10:49:50 PM
So then comes the argument, is it really gender dysphoria? 20 years for me and it still hasn't gone away, so how do I justify to others that I need treatment when i'm being lumped in with people who can "get over it."

I wished for the longest time that it was a "phase" or "confusion" but it wasn't and I don't feel that someone who is just in a phase or confused has the same condition as me.

the fact of the matter is, we just don't know how much "sameness" comes with GID. Think of it like depression, GID is a mental disorder too, and it stands to reason that mental disorders affect everyone differently, well, so will we have many varieties and flavors of trans people and trans people who have fluctuating feels.

Expressing personal opinions are fine.  But let's not start making light of others opinions.   

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 27, 2012, 10:49:50 PM
So then comes the argument, is it really gender dysphoria? 20 years for me and it still hasn't gone away, so how do I justify to others that I need treatment when i'm being lumped in with people who can "get over it."

I wished for the longest time that it was a "phase" or "confusion" but it wasn't and I don't feel that someone who is just in a phase or confused has the same condition as me.

I've tried ignoring it in the past, just like you, hoping it was just me being a confused little teenager. It wasn't a phase. But it's what you do after you realize that it's not going away... some people keep on chuggin', some people decide that it's time for a radical change. No matter what you choose, it doesn't make you any more/less trans. Accepting it in the first place is good enough for a lot of people, as they can "come to terms" with what they're feeling.

Even after I started hormones, I would still hope that I would blink and I would no longer feel this way, that I would realize that I am confused. But when I look back on my life, the puzzle pieces fit together and show me that I'm not confused, but even then, I'm looking for more excuses. I can't help who I am. In a few months I might go back to PURGE PURGE PURGE! But this has happened at least 10 times before, and no amount of purging myself will make it go away.

Hugs honey.  It can be a rough ride, but nothing is set in stone so do what you feel is right for you without regret.  It's your life and while others can offer advice, they have no way of knowing what you have been through. 
Instead of purging, why not just get a big suitcase to store things until you want to try them again.

Karen.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 27, 2012, 10:21:21 PM
I'm sorry, but I disagree.

We need to stop parroting the party line that "dysphoria never goes away"

It's different and unique for all people, and we should recognize that yea, sometimes it's just a damn phase or confusion.

I can really understand your point to an extent. I have to say, I'm pleased you made it.

We have a phrase that comes out, now and again, 'More Transgender than thou'. And it's useful to remind ourselves that we aren't competeing here. Rather like the two old people, arguing which had the worst background, but it's all todays' youth's fault!

I actually discussed this point, in pms with another member, not in these terms but the same issue.

We start from a point where our preception and realisation of our individual problem is very real. We're not ruing over not being a train driver, or a princess, we're dealing with a real, long term issue that has disturbed us.

But each of us deals with it in their own way. Just as some can handle a bad tooth ache, while others are driven up the wall.

The frustration exists for us all. I have to say, I don't personally believe that dysphoria goes away. But many end up living with it. Perhaps because they are so tough or perhaps it's because they give up easily and have no choice.

Be interested in your comments.

And Gay people are just confused and need to get over it too *sigh*

Quote from: Stephe on October 28, 2012, 08:19:24 AM
And Gay people are just confused and need to get over it too *sigh*

...

yeah, sexuality is fluid, it's different for everyone, maybe someone feels an attraction to men solely now, does not mean it will be the same later. That doesn't make their sexuality less valid.

what's up with this whole thing of you MUST transition? Seriously, we might be doing people more harm than good, and I'm sorry, but there are some straight up never passable ones who come here, and I feel like we're sugar coating everything...

Quote from: CoolCat on October 28, 2012, 08:41:02 AM
what's up with this whole thing of you MUST transition? Seriously, we might be doing people more harm than good, and I'm sorry, but there are some straight up never passable ones who come here, and I feel like we're sugar coating everything...

Maybe you have missed the point. I know people like the ones you describe. They are not transitioning to pass, they are transitioning so that they feel themselves.

Quote from: smooth on October 27, 2012, 09:40:30 AM
I remember reading the Anne Vitale link, it really struck a cord with me. It wasn't long after this that I realised what the solution to my own issues was going to be. Up until this time I'd been busy removing my beard, getting a hair transplant, a rhino and going for consultations for other FFS procedures. I wasn't sure exactly where I was going to end up but I knew I had to make some changes. I'd been considering orchi and it wasn't a difficult decision to make once I'd gotten my head around what I needed to do to move on with life. My testosterone factory had to go for good. I have no regrets, it worked for me and I'm confident that this is where it stops. I consider myself lucky that I didn't have to transition completely, deep down I know I wouldn't have been happy. I even question wether some of my efforts would have been necessary had I had the orchi first....
I think once a person has got their head around the fact that the dysphoria isn't just going to go away they are in a position to better accept whatever choices they make regarding any changes that they have to make. It's easy to think your free from dysphoria when the E has done it's work but not long after stopping I personally found my own GD re surfaced quick time. I remind myself of this if any regret ever pops into my head.
I re trained as an electrologist so's I would still be able to earn a half decent living but my enthusiasm has dropped off since I realised I wouldn't need to find a new way of earning a living. I still have a working studio if anyone's local 
I still pump iron I still have my wife and kids and I don't have to consider passing. Life is good, Life's a beach  I just wish we had more sunshine here in the uk

quite interesting. i've been hesitating to seek help with my occasional gid-like feelings because i generally don't feel bad about being a woman. it's just that i can't stand not being a man. and maybe this is all just an emotional thing caused by my brain expecting more androgens, and not that i have the wrong body type. if more testosterone is what i need to be a happy woman, then i'm open to that being the right answer too. though i might just as well find that i'm really a transsexual in denial. impossible to know before exploring things properly, i'd think.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 28, 2012, 08:41:02 AM
yeah, sexuality is fluid, it's different for everyone, maybe someone feels an attraction to men solely now, does not mean it will be the same later. That doesn't make their sexuality less valid.

I don't think sexuality is as fluid as you think. I think the human mind is fluid and can override its own instincts if its strong enough. It's what separates us from the other animals. Your mind can want one thing but if its separate from your instinctual drive it will be at constant odds with it and you will never feel truly comfortable.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 28, 2012, 08:41:02 AM
what's up with this whole thing of you MUST transition? Seriously, we might be doing people more harm than good, and I'm sorry, but there are some straight up never passable ones who come here, and I feel like we're sugar coating everything...

It's not about passing for many. We sugar coat because its called being supportive.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 27, 2012, 11:09:08 PM
the fact of the matter is, we just don't know how much "sameness" comes with GID. Think of it like depression, GID is a mental disorder too, and it stands to reason that mental disorders affect everyone differently, well, so will we have many varieties and flavors of trans people and trans people who have fluctuating feels.

This. There is an unfortunate tendency to push one-size-fits-all models of transition. Especially my-size-fits-all models. Not everyone is going to need the same things in order to be okay with themselves. Transition does not need to be a package deal. It can just be a collection of tools to fix the things. Not everyone needs the same ones.

Quote from: Stephe on October 28, 2012, 08:19:24 AM
And Gay people are just confused and need to get over it too *sigh*

No. But not all queer people are gay. That is the distinction. It frustrates me that people still want to pretend like non-binary trans people don't exist. Especially people who themselves have made non-standard-narrative transition choices.

Quote from: Sarah7 on October 28, 2012, 12:34:25 PM
This. There is an unfortunate tendency to push one-size-fits-all models of transition. Especially my-size-fits-all models. Not everyone is going to need the same things in order to be okay with themselves. Transition does not need to be a package deal. It can just be a collection of tools to fix the things. Not everyone needs the same ones.

No. But not all queer people are gay. That is the distinction. It frustrates me that people still want to pretend like non-binary trans people don't exist. Especially people who themselves have made non-standard-narrative transition choices.

By jove you've got it!
Not everyone needs to transition wholesale, some can do low dose HRT and feel much more at ease, others can take steps like laser hair removal or just being a feminine guy would work.

And I know passing doesn't matter to a lot of folks, but there are people who've stated that yes they would like to pass, but people still lie to them when they don't pass and probably won't...

and I just think that's wrong

Quote from: CoolCat on October 27, 2012, 10:21:21 PM
I'm sorry, but I disagree.

We need to stop parroting the party line that "dysphoria never goes away"

It's different and unique for all people, and we should recognize that yea, sometimes it's just a damn phase or confusion.

You are correct.  I should have said, "In my experience ..."

Everybody is different, and the degree of dysphoria they experience, if they are transgendered, is variable.

I also note that "confusion" is not "dysphoria."

Quote from: Jamie D on October 28, 2012, 01:22:42 PM
You are correct.  I should have said, "In my experience ..."

Everybody is different, and the degree of dysphoria they experience, if they are transgendered, is variable.

I also note that "confusion" is not "dysphoria."

With great respect JamieD I don't personally believe that degree is the issue as such.

I'm sure there are degrees of most things, but I tend toward the idea that it's the individual's ability, self confidence, personal awareness, character that governs how much, how far they will go.

I see many on here taking enormous and brave strides. I admire and envy them, knowing that the courage and determination they have, I don't.

But I still feel I belong here. I feel that magickitty, that Cindy, that Susan, each belong here. Not because of how far we've gone, but because we are here at all.

I took a bit of a gamble with my own feelings a while back, by posting my image here as an avitar. To any who know me personally, it would be instantly recognisable. I took it down because it seemed a little sad, but not because I ever felt uncomfortable. I'm so pleased that I did that. I proved something. To me.

I have posted avitars on my Facebook account, of the Transgender symbol. Small victories. But that's what they are, to me.

I don't think I could have survived by suddenly presenting as female. It isn't a reflection of need, or my will, or my committment, or who I am. It's a reflection of my own character. Not yet adequate to be as brave as those who are.

There's a Latin verb, duco, which means to lead. It's the root of the word education. I follow Cindy, Karen, Stephe and MrsOBrien. I follow because, like so many like me, I follow the brave who open that path, who show the rest of us the way and with enormous patience, wait for each of us to take our own steps.

I fully understand and respect your point about degrees. I even fully respect the positions of CoolCat. But with respect, I disagree.

Our degree is there. Our self confidence is in the post.

And I'm Jill, by the way. I've always been Jill.

Quote from: spacial on October 28, 2012, 05:44:21 PM
But I still feel I belong here. I feel that magickitty, that Cindy, that Susan, each belong here. Not because of how far we've gone, but because we are here at all.

[..]

And I'm Jill, by the way. I've always been Jill.

Jill,

We all belong. We each take whatever steps, however small, that are right for us at any time.

It's wonderful, actually quite spacial (pun intended), to know your name!

Z

I automatically assume people are lying to me when they tell me I pass.