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Warning Extreme Danger!

Started by Shantel, December 29, 2012, 12:42:40 PM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cindy

Quote from: SageFox on December 30, 2012, 01:25:19 AM
Shantel, I had a clot in my shoulder years ago from an anatomical issue (thoracic outlet syndrome).  They dissolved it in the hospital and while I was on cumadin(sp?) and a few other things for a couple of weeks, my blood was normal and I never had to take the stuff again - and I never got wafarin.  While I understand how the medication could change your blood chemistry in the short term, I find it confusing that it would or could affect clotting factors in the long term.

Is being banned from HRT and getting lifetime wafarin a standard knee-jerk reaction to a DVT or is there valid medical science behind it?

I don't trust doctors in general and I too often find they take the "safest" routes not because it's best for the patient, but because it's safest for insurance and avoiding malpractice suits.

There is a slight but significant risk in developing clotting disorders while on HRT, this is age related as well as hormone related and occurs in all woman who go onto HRT for either menopausal treatment or for gender dysmorphia.  There is also a slight but significant increase in liver damage and this also has to be monitored, as well as osteoporosis, which again should be monitored.

While people may have differences in opinion about their medical care I believe it is rare for medics to withhold best treatment it is unethical. I would never deny best treatment, and indeed we often find work a rounds so we can give treatment to people that they would not be able to afford but that would be better for them
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josee

Thanks for sharing. Sorry to hear about your going through this but hopefully someone will read this and think again about self-medicating. Hope you get better soon.

Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express
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Shantel

Quote from: SageFox on December 30, 2012, 01:25:19 AM

Is being banned from HRT and getting lifetime wafarin a standard knee-jerk reaction to a DVT or is there valid medical science behind it?

I don't know the answer to that as yet, I have a battery of appointments coming up. Got a lab appointment on the 2nd for a blood draw and another an hour later to look at the results and make any changes in the amount of rat poison (Warfarin) I have to take based on how fast or slowly the blood clots. That should go on bimonthly for some time leaving me with a permanent black and blue on my arm as if I'm a heroin junky. Then I see my primary provider on the 10th and have a mystery appointment at the endocrinologist, so I'll know more by then. Most of the medical types I've seen so far think that HRT will be off the table for me from here on.

Quote from: SageFox on December 30, 2012, 01:25:19 AM
I don't trust doctors in general and I too often find they take the "safest" routes not because it's best for the patient, but because it's safest for insurance and avoiding malpractice suits.

Well to be honest that was my very own attitude and that thinking right there is what got me in the jam I'm in right now. So I highly recommend rethinking that mindset. We have the option of going with the learned directions of the specialists or doing a high speed face plant into a brick wall trying to fast track our transition on our own.
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Siobhan

So sorry this has happened shantel .
I hope you recover fully from this. I was really worried about clots myself so switched to patches.
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RedFox

While I'd like to think that most doctors have their patients best interests at heart, I seem to have run into enough of the bad ones to give me a bit of bias.  My blood clot was preventable but a doctor ignored my complaints and refused to give me a reasonable examination.  It took a swollen arm and emergency treatment to prove his incompetence unfortunately. 

The second bad doctor was responsible for my daughter having to go through extensive hip surgery at the age of 10 - because he refused to listen to his patient and me and withheld proper medical tests (not even an x-ray) until she was nearly crippled - and then only the specialist made the proper effort to diagnose and treat.

I fully intend to take the proper medical route with my HRT.  Shantel, lessons like yours and others are enough to convince me to have patience and work with the specialists.  But nowadays I treat doctors like lawyers and mechanics, you have to be discriminating to find the honest ones you can trust.

And thanks for the info Cindy - my question on the science was sincere.

Best of luck on the tests and the future of your transition Shantel.


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SonadoraXVX

Thank you shantel for sharing a very personal medical situation/emergency and letting us know your thoughts. I was contemplating on taking anti androgens against my doctor's advice, but now of what happened to you, I will just listen to my medical doctors. In terms of what Sagefox said, I went through that dilemma a few years ago, when I got misdiagnosed for a lymphatic cancer and was just given ointments for skin lesions by medical doctors, until a physician assistant did a biopsy and found I had a rare lymph cancer(ie.lymphomatiod papulosis, 1 in 1,000,000 have it, I checked reputable medical websites). Yes medical doctors cover the behind by giving the safest therapies for medical conditions and to prevent medical malpratice and medical group law suits, but by and large medical doctors are good people who do want to help sick and dying. You have to be a smart advocate for your own healthcare and know when a medical doctor has the best interest for you and when he does not. My opinion on hrt after seeing what happened to shantel, I would research more, which I'm going too, I'm 44 years old and present the medical evidence to my endocrinologist, if I find contrary medical research then what she is giving, the medical doctor maybe conservative, in which case shantel may need to find another qualified medical doctor(s), who can give her a second opinion,and after a period of time,  and doing your own medical research, you can get a fair sense on what is legitimate and what is not. In the case of Sagefox and her child, I feel that is a different situation, since you know if your child is sick, regardless of what the doctor says, and you hunt down another doctor to tell you what is wrong with your child(ie.medical saving procedures).  Shantel, it seems like the docs want to apply medical saving procedures and research has to be done and evaluated, by Shantel, no one else.

My two cents, and my opinion maybe way off, in which case I apologize and again, thank you shantel for your advice and will heed it, until other medical research proves otherwise(ie.if it exists). (((((Huggs Shantel)))) :(
To know thyself is to be blessed, but to know others is to prevent supreme headaches
Sun Tzu said it best, "To know thyself is half the battle won, but to know yourself and the enemy, is to win 100% of the battles".



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MaidofOrleans

Sorry to hear about this, hope your doing well.

Let this be a lesson to self medicators and people thinking they are smarter than the doctor. Faster results are not worth crippling or killing yourself for.
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Just Kate

Everything you have said is true, only you are describing it in the worst possible light.  I have direct experience with everything you are describing, and I want to make your heart lighter concerning all of this.   It isn't as bad as it seems.

I was 30 years old when I was on hormones and developed a small blood clot in my lower ankle area.  Because I was extremely healthy and quite thin, the ER didn't worry about it and told me to take baby aspirin.  Within a few days, the clot was gone and reappeared right behind my knee.  I could only notice it because it was a little more red than the other knee and would have a little pressure when I fully extended my leg.  I told my regular doctor who had me temporarily stop hormones and monitor it.  Because I was otherwise healthy and had not had surgery recently, it wasn't clear what caused it, so she ran a battery of blood work. 

Within about three days I had the ever so slightest pain in my chest when I breathed in deeply.  I went to bed as normal, thinking, if it hurts tomorrow (it was more of an annoyance really), I will call my doctor.  The annoyance was still present in the morning so I left a message for my doctor and went to work.  She called me about an hour later with a very grave tone.  She said, "You have to get to the ER now!  You're tests came in; you have an extremely rare blood disorder, Protein S Deficiency, that causes you to clot excessively.  You are experiencing a pulmonary embolism."  It certainly didn't FEEL like I was dying - just a little pain in my chest.

Well I was in the hospital for a week after being admitted with "multiple pulmonary emboli, numbering around 13".  It was touch and go the first two nights as the doctors treated me with thinners and waited to see if I'd make it.  They told me that had I not been in such good health or had I been overweight I would have probably died.

Now for the bad stuff:

After I got out of the hospital they told me I'd need to take warfarin the rest of my life, I'd have to stop taking hormones, and I could no longer continue my near-vegetarian diet.  I was pretty crushed and for two years had no hormones, ballooned up nearly 50 lbs due to my new diet of cheeseburgers and other crap.  I was so miserable - my body dysmorphia was worst than ever and my dysphoria, which had been effectively controlled on estrogen, was raging out of control.  Additionally, I developed osteopenia due to a lack of hormones in my body (I already had an orchi so I had no estrogen or testosterone during this time) and have to take Fosamax the rest of my life (and trust me, the side of effects of this are much, much worst than anything with warfarin).

Now for the good stuff:

I get my blood checked between 1 - 4 weeks intervals and have for 2 years.  I've never had track marks (except when I left the hospital t he first week) and none of the bruising has been permanent (and my doctors LOVE to go to the same spot on my arm).  You might be sensitive to permanent bruising, but I've never seen anything of the sort on me.

I have been on warfarin for about 2 years and have had no negative side effects from the drug itself.  It is a highly effective blood thinner, but in too great of quantity can cause internal bleeding.  It was used to kill rats by giving them enough to cause extreme internal bleeding.  It shouldn't be news to you or anyone else that using something to excess can kill you.  So it is a bit melodramatic to continuously call it rat poison and will only make you feel worst about it.  You will be fine, just don't overdose on it.

I got sick of how I looked and told my doctor I'd be going back to full on vegetarian last month - leafy greens like spinach, salads, everything.  She consented and we worked together to find me the right dose of warfarin and to monitor my blood.  The rule for Warfarin is, "Dose to your diet, don't diet to your dose."  Now immediately after getting out of the hospital and when you still have a shrinking DVT it makes sense to be excessively careful - but that is only temporary.  If you end up on warfarin permanently, you can incorporate veggies back into your diet working with your doctor.

I read about how some post-menopausal women have to take warfarin but still take HRT.  I figured there was hope, that taking warfarin and having a clotting disorder did not mean HRT was absolutely out.  I approached my doctor about this earlier this month.  She explained that there is significant risk in continuing HRT with my current blood disorder, but if I understood the risks, she would work with me as well as a hematologist to allow me to begin estrogen again.  I haven't started it yet, but I will by the end of January.  Getting back on estrogen should help my bones as well making it so that I no longer have to take Fosamax.

As a final word, I understand you are upset - so was I, and many of the things the doctors tell you can be very scary and intimidating.  They are trying to look out for you so you can continue to live a long and healthy life based on the standards they have for all patients.  However not all rules are fixed, but I don't recommend self-treating either.  Work with your medical professionals to find a solution that works best for your life.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
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Shantel

Quote from: Just Kate on December 31, 2012, 10:41:43 AM

As a final word, I understand you are upset - so was I, and many of the things the doctors tell you can be very scary and intimidating.  They are trying to look out for you so you can continue to live a long and healthy life based on the standards they have for all patients.  However not all rules are fixed, but I don't recommend self-treating either.  Work with your medical professionals to find a solution that works best for your life.

Kate, thanks for you're invaluable input and reassurance, you are a real sweetheart! This is the reason Susan's Place exists, so that we can share things for the sake of others and be transparent with one another about things we couldn't discuss anywhere else. I am most encouraged by your comments, thank you for taking the time and happy new year! XX
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Ms. OBrien CVT

I was on warfarin after my stroke.  I was on it for a year, but eventually I was taken off it.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
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Just Kate

Quote from: Shantel on December 31, 2012, 10:58:41 AM
Kate, thanks for you're invaluable input and reassurance, you are a real sweetheart! This is the reason Susan's Place exists, so that we can share things for the sake of others and be transparent with one another about things we couldn't discuss anywhere else. I am most encouraged by your comments, thank you for taking the time and happy new year! XX

I wish you the best too, and a healthy and happy new year. 
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
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Shana A

Thanks for sharing these details, Shan! Keeping you in my thoughts for a full recovery and also for ability to remain on HRT.

hugs,

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Shantel

Quote from: Zythyra on December 31, 2012, 06:30:35 PM
Thanks for sharing these details, Shan! Keeping you in my thoughts for a full recovery and also for ability to remain on HRT.

hugs,

Z

Thanks so much Zythyra and all you other sweet buddy girls! My leg is already feeling better and the swelling is subsiding a bit each day. Happy New Year everybody! Love my buds here!
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DanicaCarin

Hey Shantel,

I hope things turn out well for you and I am giving you a reputation point for having the thought & courage to bring "a face" to this extremely important issue!

Hope & Prayers heading your way!
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Jamie D

Quote from: SageFox on December 30, 2012, 01:25:19 AM
Shantel, I had a clot in my shoulder years ago from an anatomical issue (thoracic outlet syndrome).  They dissolved it in the hospital and while I was on cumadin(sp?) and a few other things for a couple of weeks, my blood was normal and I never had to take the stuff again - and I never got wafarin.  While I understand how the medication could change your blood chemistry in the short term, I find it confusing that it would or could affect clotting factors in the long term.

Is being banned from HRT and getting lifetime wafarin a standard knee-jerk reaction to a DVT or is there valid medical science behind it?

I don't trust doctors in general and I too often find they take the "safest" routes not because it's best for the patient, but because it's safest for insurance and avoiding malpractice suits.

Warfain is the generic name for Coumadin.  Because Shantel developed a DVT on HRT she may not be allowed to have that form of medication again.  She will likely need some sort of hormone eventually, or risk osteoporosis.

I have had massive amounts of blood thinners prior to my heart procedures.  Don't like it.
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luna nyan

Shantel,

Sorry to hear about what happened to you.  I know of someone who had a severe DVT a few years ago, and is still on Warfarin, but fortunately, they have been able to reduce the dose over time, and he's been gradually able to have the occasional drink here and there.  Unfortunately for him, he's got a rare genetic marker for it, and his relatives have had history of stroke, so there's no way he'll ever be off an anti-coagulent.

Your haematologist is going to have to become your best friend so to speak - I sincerely hope that over time, things will get sorted.  As others have said, with your history now, HRT is going to be difficult, but there's a definite possibility of informed consent later on.

*hugs*
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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Shantel

Thanks again everyone! The hematologist said that my medical and family history indicates that this may just be a one time event. I'm being optimistic but feel like a pin cushion right now. Got my water rowing machine, a belated Christmas present to ourselves, and had a couple of ten minute brisk rows yesterday and got a nasty leg cramp. I don't want to get out of shape by just sitting around.
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Shantel

Got an update:
     I had multiple appointments at the VA hospital today, more labs, hematology department says I can quit self administering the shots in the tummy now and that my medication levels are right on target. Later at my healthcare provider we had a long chat, she says my BP is back in the perfect range and my weight is perfect and that I will be off the Warfarin in six months. She went on to say that the endocrinologist will no doubt put me on a low maintenance dosage of estrogen after that six month period. I have labs and an appointment at endocrinology on the second Friday of February, I'll know more then. Meanwhile, it's reassuring to know that there is life after death, and that I may get a second chance. I took the liberty to complement my provider on her terrific looking hair style and tint, after all isn't that what we girls notice on other women? She gave me a nice warm hug before I left, she's such a sweet lady!
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Annah

Shantel

I just noticed this thread. Wow. I am so sorry you have gone through that! I am very happy that you are improving and I am sure you will continue to improve.

Thank you for sharing your story.
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BunnyBee

That sounds like really good news Shantel.  I can't imagine how hard it must have been going through that.   Best of luck with how things turn out!
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