Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

Came out to wife, couldn't have gone much worse.

Started by Gemma_D, December 30, 2012, 03:11:11 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

peky

Quote from: Sarah Louise on January 02, 2013, 10:17:43 AM
I made the commitment not to transition until the kids were through college.

I did tell my wife about myself before we married, she accepted things then, over the years she supported me, then later when I actually wanted to transition she changed her mind and was not as supportive.

But I was the one who decided to marry her, to have kids, etc. (there are so many different reasons we do things, some good reasons, some Bad reasons), I decided to wait until the kids were grown, I have transitioned now, luckily (I guess) my wife and I came to an understanding and are still together.

My ex and I agree that I would not to transition until the kids were adolescents.

I did tell my wife about myself long before we married when we were just plain co-workers. She not only fully accepted things but even encourge further expression. Then, over the years the encouragement turned into tolerance, then later when I actually wanted to transition she changed her mind and was not as supportive but brutaly hostile.

My kids who knew all along and live with me are just peachy
  •  

Annah

Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 02, 2013, 10:07:13 AM
Except when you chose to enter a marriage as a man, to me it seems like you promised someone else food for life, but when it got a little hard you stole it all for yourself and let them starve. 

The vows say man and wife, you make a promise.  I know people would say life happens regardless of vows but god, the poor wives.  I'm so sick of hearing this story over and over again, I wish I could block these threads.  I feel like I can hardly visit Susan's anymore without another horror story of a poor woman who was lied to all her marriage, and then everybody responds to it like it's ok cause they did it to their wife and/or children too and they wanna ease their guilt.

If I married my bf and built my life around our relationship and several years in he took that all away from me and crushed that identity.... I would want to drive off a cliff too.  :-\

I totally understand how you feel

I never told my ex about my feelings but we got married. When we got married I pushed those feelings aside because I made a vow to her. I take the covenant of marriage very seriously.

I transitioned because she left me ( I would not attend a holiness church with her). It had nothing to do with transition. But yes, I hear way too many stories of trans people coming out to their wives AFTER they got married...I'm sorry...butno one should EVER make the wives feel or sound like the bad guys in this because they are the innocent ones...I don't care how angry they are. When they married their husbands they weren't asking or wasn't ready for theirworld to be turned upside down...these important life decisions need to be ironed out before getting married.

If she knew about the trans feelings before marriage then the wife knew what she was getting into.

And telling the wife when she's pregnant and right after she gave birth is just beyond my level of comprehension.
  •  

Emily Aster

Am I misreading the original post and her follow-up? Both of them seem to say that she had no idea about being trans until her wife was 3 months pregnant. That means she didn't wait for the worst moment to bring it up and she didn't marry and get her pregnant while knowing either. The timing was bad and she jumped the gun by immediately bringing it up without thinking it through first, but I didn't get that she intentionally withheld that information. I got the feeling the exact opposite was true.
  •  

Annah

In the very beginning of her post she stated she had these feelings long before marriage page 3
  •  

spring0721

Annah, Peky, and Sarah, I really just have to say to you, wow you are amazing women & truly selfless parents!
And to Gemma, again I hope your family can find their way together.
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.
  •  

Jamie D

Just a reminder to everyone posting in the topic, please keep the discussion civil.

We have had to remove a few posts.  This is an important topic.  Thanks.
  •  

Anatta

Kia Ora,

::) The pressure cooker known as gender dysphoria as a habit of letting off steam at the most inappropriate times...However some are able to keep a lid on it longer than others...

BTW Jamie, it would seem, Civil is never around when you need her ...But her sister Anger is always ready to jump in !

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
  •  

Emily Aster

Quote from: Gemma_D on December 30, 2012, 05:06:39 PM
I initially 'came out' in a moment of confusion, attempting to be open and communicative. I had just started having confusing feelings and thought it best to talk it through, I thought they would just pass. Obviously that failed. I never married or had a child to 'fix me' as I didn't know there was anything to fix.

I must either be tired or reading the wrong post. This statement, particularly the bold section, coupled with the statement on the first post about only having known for 8 months still makes me think she had no idea about this until during the pregnancy.
  •  

peky

Quote from: spring0721 on January 02, 2013, 03:44:08 PM
Annah, Peky, and Sarah, I really just have to say to you, wow you are amazing women & truly selfless parents!
And to Gemma, again I hope your family can find their way together.

Thank you Spring!!

What I would do knowing what I know if I could go back to the past? I would be more honest, less arrogant, but as far as the marring and the kids, so yeah I would do it all over again.


Sometimes I see the younger TS, they get their puberty blockers, early HRT and SRS, and wow, just wow...I am dieing with envy...here I am stuck in this old, chubby body with a deep voice...but then I smile and say: "good for them" ... but then I think...they still will not be able to bear kids of their own...and just like me and you they will always have to live with that nagging past...

So, at the end...poor wives...poor parents...poor siblings...poor children...they all did not ask to have us for husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons...

and so we go on with this "hole" in our souls for having caused so much pain and despair...How selfish of me my God to want to be myself so bad as to ignore the pleas of those who love me!!!

How can I fix it of God? Is there enough penitence out there for me to fulfill? Or should I just take the swift escape of oblivion and join the other fallen angels?

  •  

MellowMoxxi

Quote from: peky on January 02, 2013, 07:50:44 PM

So, at the end...poor wives...poor parents...poor siblings...poor children...they all did not ask to have us for husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons...

and so we go on with this "hole" in our souls for having caused so much pain and despair...How selfish of me my God to want to be myself so bad as to ignore the pleas of those who love me!!!

How can I fix it of God? Is there enough penitence out there for me to fulfill? Or should I just take the swift escape of oblivion and join the other fallen angels?

Thank you Peky. it is hard to think what will happen to all the people I love when I come out. Even worst is how they would feel if I refused to confront my problems and took the easy way out. I'm still grappling with those questions, but I know that I would rather be here to console them.
each day stepping through :-X :) :D >:( :( ??? :-\ :'( :embarrassed: | maybe one day truly :D

I think I'm about to go for it. I did it.
  •  

Anatta

Kia Ora,

Time heals all wounds ! Regrets can make them fester !

Even though one might re-live the event/experience again and again in ones mind, no matter how hard one would like to, they can never go back to change it, but they can change how they think about their future...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
  •  

Adrian_Michael

Quote from: Dahlia on December 30, 2012, 06:25:52 AM
Conceiving a baby as a cisman is the most masculine thing a cisman can do in his life.

So, if you feel you're a woman then how can you live with that?

Um...I am a man, who gave birth twice.

Does not make me any less a man.

And I love my children.

Live with it just fine.

Just saying.
  •  

Adrian_Michael

OP, I feel you. I told my now ex three weeks after our son's first birthday, right before Thanksgiving. It was not pretty.

I would try and remember the hormonal changes she is going through right now. You both are suffering. Unfortunatelty, hormones after pregmancy and childbirth can lead to depression and aggression, and lots of regretful reactions.

Time is needed for both of you. Try to support her and your child, as best you can, without compromising yourself.

It can ne done...it just takes time.
  •  

Annah

Quote from: Dahlia on December 30, 2012, 06:25:52 AM
Conceiving a baby as a cisman is the most masculine thing a cisman can do in his life.

So, if you feel you're a woman then how can you live with that?

As someone who has three children of my own from the way I conceived them (as a male), I totally disagree with your comment.

I am a woman. I have three children that I helped conceive as a man and I am just as much as a woman today.

Also, I am sure the transman who got pregnant to carry a baby would disagree with you too

So, no. Having a baby as a cismale is not the most masculine thing one can do. Masculinity is what is determined in the eyes of the beholder. What is the pinnacle of masculinity for you is not the pinnacle of masculinity for others.
  •  

TanaSilver

I am really surprised by a lot of these posts. The anger poured on the idea of a TG coming out after marriage and children, as though all transgendered folk have foreknowledge of their condition. News flash: a great many of us bury and repress and deny our feelings until well into our lives, including marriage and children. Is this really news to people? Not all of us experience our gender issues in the same ways, and coming to awareness of it can happen in a thousand different forms.

I have nothing but sympathy for you, Gemma. This sucks for both you, and your wife. But what also sucks is the judgement that can be heaped upon a later-in-life transsexual. The young ones have it easy, having not established roots that may have to be ripped out of the ground. As an older one myself, I wish I had come to awareness of this earlier in life, but that was just not the case, and such as it is for a great many.
  •  

kelly_aus

Quote from: TanaSilver on January 02, 2013, 11:43:24 PM
I am really surprised by a lot of these posts. The anger poured on the idea of a TG coming out after marriage and children, as though all transgendered folk have foreknowledge of their condition. News flash: a great many of us bury and repress and deny our feelings until well into our lives, including marriage and children. Is this really news to people? Not all of us experience our gender issues in the same ways, and coming to awareness of it can happen in a thousand different forms.

I have nothing but sympathy for you, Gemma. This sucks for both you, and your wife. But what also sucks is the judgement that can be heaped upon a later-in-life transsexual. The young ones have it easy, having not established roots that may have to be ripped out of the ground. As an older one myself, I wish I had come to awareness of this earlier in life, but that was just not the case, and such as it is for a great many.

I knew I was a broken human.. And because of this, I avoided situations that might end in marriage or children - I knew I'd fall in a heap at some point and was not prepared to put any one else through my crap.

That said, I do have some sympathy for the OP, but I will reiterate the comment that the OP's timing sucked...
  •  

Dahlia

Quote from: peky on January 02, 2013, 07:50:44 PM
and you they will always have to live with that nagging past...

So, at the end...poor wives...poor parents...poor siblings...poor children...they all did not ask to have us for husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons...



I've read this kind of stories from MTF who have been married several times before coming out over and over again...sometimes even bitter and complaining about non accepting ex wives who didn't know before marriage.

The response of other MTF on this kind of stories is like 'no true love' from the wife that is...but how can you truly love a husband who turns out to be a virtual stranger/mtf you happen to be married to and  who is the 'sperm donor' of your children?
  •  

peky

Quote from: Dahlia on January 03, 2013, 02:58:26 AM
I've read this kind of stories from MTF who have been married several times before coming out over and over again...sometimes even bitter and complaining about non accepting ex wives who didn't know before marriage.

The response of other MTF on this kind of stories is like 'no true love' from the wife that is...but how can you truly love a husband who turns out to be a virtual stranger/mtf you happen to be married to and  who is the 'sperm donor' of your children?

Please read my reply # 62 so you can get the context of what I was trying to convey; which was that even when you told your wife before engagement, not only the Tg person can change his/her mind but so does the spouse.

In my case, she left me with 5 hungry and heart broken kids, a house in shambles, and a pile of debts. At that time I had not started any transition steps; I really do not know what precipitated her abandonment, and after rebuilding my home, the lives of my kids, and the finances, frankly I do not care to know! You know why? it would not make any difference, OK?

My post #  was written in a moment that I was overtaken by a sense of poetic spell, something that a woman of science seldom happen.



I guess another possible ending-scenario would be: "sorry I had to choose between you and a bullet but I choose to live"



  •  

Elspeth

#78
Quote from: Emelye on January 02, 2013, 09:49:08 AM
I read once that the selfishness of transitioning is the same as the selfishness of eating - we help ourselves to survive by doing it.  I agree.  I think being selfish when you have a viable choice to do otherwise is a problem but when all the options are bad then it's hardly selfish to choose the one that adds to physical, mental and emotional survival.

This pinpoints for me why I so wish we would stop referring to transition as selfishness. It's true, in the confrontationally literal, Richard Dawkins' "lets sell a book" sense (i.e. why else did he title his book The Selfish Gene if not because it was attention-getting and also true in the most literal sense?).

Breathing is a selfish act too. But it really winds up feeding into something that often spills over into a sort of self-flagellation. Then again, in some ways I suppose it also affirms (at least among (typo!) M2Fs) our sense of female identity, since this sort of condemnation of selfish acts is very common in ciswomen's dialogues surrounding personal sacrifice for family, children and other aspects of female identity that society at large tends to endorse?

I haven't done my introduction yet, and I also haven't slept well, so I'll resist the temptation to flesh out the novella-length essay I'm tempted to improvise after reading as much of this thread as I have to this point.

Instead, let me echo that while my own story is very different, had I told it in shorthand the way Gemma told hers, I might have sparked a similar reaction. Heather (who commented a few posts earlier than Emelye's) already knows much of my story. It's not all that different than hers, though I could easily recast it to show myself in  a terribly unflattering light.  I knew, after all, from a very early age that I identified as female. Looked at from at least one POV, I chose to marry with that knowledge in myself, in part because I tried to rationalize that, by marrying a woman in a high-pressure profession, I would be able to (and in fact did) manage to negotiate and manipulate the situation so that I could become as close to a full-time mom to my own biological kids as is possible given the current state of options for transwomen.

Granted, I had made most or all of this clear to my spouse years before her first pregnancy, so she was an informed partner in this. On the other hand, it became clear too that she was in denial about how profound my dysphoria was, and it's very likely that I wasn't as clear about that as I could have been, had I not been trying to frame things from just about any angle but the one that was most obvious to me.

Being a mom is a central part of my sense of what being a woman is about. I put off transition in part because a therapist convinced me that coming out to young children could be a bad idea.  Mine were 8 and 6 when my spouse asked for a divorce, though "blackmail" might be a more accurate way of describing it, the threats to misrepresent matters only she and I were witnesses to only came when I made it clear to her that I most certainly did not want to separate. The main reason I don't use that term is because she's still the person I am most attached to romantically, and I still think some day she might actually come to identify as lesbian, hopeless romantic that I am.  In defense of my POV, she did at one point say to a group of her childhood friends (in my presence) that she really wishes she were a lesbian.

When she pressed for divorce, she made it clear she'd be looking for a man to fall in love with, and yet, 10 years later, she remains single and stopped dating after only a few years of unsatisfying experiences with men who couldn't give her what she desired. Who's to say what the future holds? If she had found someone I think I might have managed to move on by now.

Right now, though, the added irony is that my eldest has been coming out as F2M (he's been going by an ambiguous name and insisting on use of male pronouns since before the start of the current school year... entering his gap year program under the new identity. He had his first appointment with a therapist for gender identity issues just yesterday, and I'll be driving him to a second appointment on Monday.

I could tell some very unflattering stories about how I came out most fully to my spouse, and I could make them sound horrible, partly because I do fault myself for how I handled things.

On the other hand, I already knew who I was and the gender I identified with... my "impulsiveness" could almost as easily be described as an act of desperation, trying to get something obvious through to someone who was seemingly being intentionally dense. My memories are of growing up with most people assuming I was gay, and me letting them think that, since to clarify the situation more specifically didn't seem like it was likely to improve my social status in any way.  It astounded me that my spouse didn't see that, but that blindness was also part of the reason she was the only woman I have ever had sex with... it was much easier to make mental adjustments in my mind that allowed me to hang onto my sense of womanliness if my partner was almost as clueless as most of the men I have ever known.

The point, and I think several have already touched on this, is  that we each come to this along a slightly different path, one that is influenced by how we were raised, how much we were able to accept ourselves along the way, and also based on the nature (and neediness) of those in our lives we might be seen as having "deceived."

In my experience, such deception is very rarely a one-way street, and it's not particularly wise to judge someone until you know the full story, and have some basis for taking a look at things from their perspective.

If I had acted with perfect integrity, I might well have had my brain burned out... they did use ECT back when I would have been coming out to my parents, a lot more often than they prescribed testosterone inhibitors to pre-teens. Or, coming out in my teens I might have fallen to AIDS like so many of my childhood friends did, since most likely I would have entered sex work at the peak of when there was almost no effective treatment available for those who were HIV positive... in fact, I was reaching prime sex trade years right around the time that HIV had yet to be identified as the underlying agent of the syndrome and the epidemic.

As it stands, one of the small mercies in this is that my son is a much more courageous and direct person than I am, and he has in many ways given me the strength and resolve to come out to those I've known for many years behind a kind of masque... in part because I can see how his dysphoria is affecting him, his moods, and filling him with suicidal thoughts that, blessedly, he has always been strong enough to come out and talk about, rather than shut down and be tempted to act upon.  At this point, I just couldn't see NOT coming out, whatever difficulties and compromises might lie ahead for me, trying to transition as my age.

PS: Thanks for the affirmations. I think I've lived a charmed life in many ways (not so much in some others) that I can manage not to get lost in my own subjectivity. I try not to judge harshly when others don't manage to do so.  Rather than offer apologies when our own issues seep out and catch fire, I'd be interested, for those who are able, whenever that might be, if they were to share some insights over time about where their particular outbursts happened to originate. I say this mainly in the hope that such sharing of background and experience might offer more insight and understanding to those, like Gemma who come here, maybe as their first contact with other transwomen, to find themselves on the hot end of the flame, potentially thinking (mistakenly in most cases) that they were the cause of the outburst, when in most cases it came from somewhere or something else in the life of the transwoman (or less  often, the transman) who was the source of the fire.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
  •  

Henna

I'm quite stunned and feel actually bad again against myself, by the comments in this thread (should have not read this) and my heart goes for Gemma...and of course her wife and baby. Neither of the _three_ asked for this. If ->-bleeped-<- is something that you ask for, I'm sorry, I want to cancel my order thank you.

I've fought against myself for 15 years and unfortunately I'm at the end of the road as pretending male. Met my current girlfriend 10 years ago (the only one that I ever had). Now that I've come out of the closet for her, I feel really bad, as if I've actually destroyed her life too...along with mine, for torturing myself for 15 years.

A lot of comments from Gemmas wife are the same that I got yelled against my face. Thankfully we don't have children, although I've been terrified the past 10 years, that accident happens.

Yeah, timing wasn't perfect for Gemma, but then again, when it would be? When would have been the perfect time?

I will remember my grandmothers advice till the day I die: "You cannot live your life for anybody else. It's your only life and you only need to live it".
  •