Okay guys, I need some help here. How many of you worry about being seen as " butch lesbians" and attacked by another guy while you do your business? Because ive tried telling Caleb that guys  dont care who is peeing in the mens room, they just go in, do their business, wash their hands (sometimes) and leave. He is all worried about being attacked in the bathroom. And its all because some ignorant gay guy and a lesbian clocked him and fed doubts into his head. And its this same insecurity he wont get over that keeps popping up. And I am at my wits end. He just wont listen to me. I mean I did live as a male for 31 years. Not only that, he doesnt go to seedy bars or questionable places in the city. So, am I just being rediculous? Or does Caleb have a valid insecurity that all guys have? I mean hes been passing just fine for quite some time. And I dont see any guy wanting to risk being caught with another guy in a Walmart bathroom.

As long as you're in a safe environment I don't think there's any problems.

I went into the men's room safely once wearing stillettos and a lace mini-skirt, I also recently went into a men's room wearing what probably looked like hijab. I've never had any problems going in wearing short hair and male clothing while in "guy mode", if anything the men there probably though I was a 12 year old. I don't think anyone cares that much, and unless you're in a dangerous place, no one who's sane wants to go to jail for beating up a "female". 

Of course, I'd never go into the men's room in like a Hell's Angels bar or something like that lol.

Thank you. His ID even says male. And ive had the bathroom arguement with him so many times that I can't take it anymore. He wont listen to me. Maybe he will listen to his peers.

I've used the men's bathroom for over a decade now. Even before I passed. I guess I'm a little more brazen than most but I wasn't about to hold my fluids for anyone. I'm not advising it but for years I carried a knife on me. Never had to use it but it gave me confidence to go do what I needed to without worrying so much.

We ALL get clocked at some point. Gay and lesbian people seem to be the best at pointing us out (and making us into a joke if they're transphobic). Getting through transition and retaining our sanity sometimes requires a certain level of indifference. You can't let other people's opinions of you effect how you feel about yourself. Just stop and consider the source.

I have NEVER had a bathroom issue except for a few looks before I passed. In safe places (Walmart,grocery stores,etc) he will be fine to try them out and gain confidence if he wants to. He passes most of the time, right? Just don't push him into anything he is not ready for. Don't pester him. If you are out somewhere and he needs to go to a gas station to find a single stall restroom then so be it. No need to make him feel worse about it than he probably already does. This is his transition and his progress. He'll eventually get to the point where he feels confident enough.

Not a lot of incidents to be found on Google. As a guy I can tell you, when you walk in a men's room, you're hoping it's empty. Just walk in, go straght to the urinals, observing the "not right next to someone else" rule, and pee. When you walk out you'll be wondering why you convinced yourself peeing is bad. Hugs, Devlyn

I was harassed and kicked out of a gay club for using the men's bathroom. I've had some evil glares before in the bathroom. Haven't been beaten up.

What she failed to mention was that the public bathroom I was considering using was in a part of town where just last week, a lesbian was very badly beaten, and called homophobic slurs.

I also do only use the men's bathroom. I don't use the women's, ever. I was just thinking out loud, wondering if I should just pee in the men's, or hold it until I got home.

Of course he failed to mention his location at all to begin with in the first place. which might have saved him an earful

Men toilets and gay men toilets are two different things. Men go to toilets to get things done. Gay men in gay bars go to toilets for getting different things done. As Devlyn and Keaira said, men usually dont care who is inside of the public toilet and men tend not to stare at each other, when being there. In fact, they feel uneasy if there is someone there already and try to find a spot as far from that other person as it is possible.

I dont want Caleb to be scared or worried every time he has to go potty. And thanks to some gay guy amd a lesbian, his insecurity is back stronger than ever. With allies like that who needs enemies.  I have my insecurity about public bathrooms and even though my are because of legal reasons, I dont want him to feel the same anxieties. He  deserves better.

while I didn't pass I once in a while had bad comments from people who was drunk or otherthings. but as I pass its not an issue at all, I feel men really dont pay much attention neither look or comment on what you do, neither do I its rather nice.
I guess if he never been to a mensroom he probably just overthinking it. if he pass in general as a casual looking guy for everyday life then I dont think anyone would notice him. (and what I mean by casual is, that his not wearing a skirt ex.. or something very extreme or gender-queer, I am having abit 80 hairstyle and neither femenine neither masculine clothing, but I dont really get in troble in mens room.

Well I don't pass at all, or let's say only a few times apparently, but I am using it in places I feel safe.

--Jay

I didn't start using the men's room until I was a couple months post-T. I didn't pass at all, so I didn't feel safe. I know I would have gotten weird looks, so I just didn't do it. Most of the time, I just refused to use a public restroom. I was passing maybe 50/50 pre-T, and that's at best.

I guess I must have been three and a half-ish months on T when I started using the men's room. I was too concerned for my safety before that because I just wasn't passing enough. Now...I wouldn't even think twice going in there. Even though I don't STP, people don't care. I have a beard, a deep voice, there's nothing feminine about me... So it doesn't matter what I do, because they see me and know I'm a dude.

I was about to say there's no reason to worry ever, but I've actually had trouble in gay bars. You want to watch out there. The lgbt community can be more exacting and unpredictable than the general public. I'm not going to try to dissect the whys and wherefores. If nothing else, you're more clockable in gay situations and that can set the stage for difficulties.

Still. I started using men's rooms long before I was consistently passing. The only time I ever even had the slightest trouble was when I'd take too long in the stall (for example using tampons, or adjusting necessary accoutrements), and I think people suspected I was homeless and changing or doing drugs or whatever. Even then the most I got in the way of trouble was dirty looks or mumbled epithets.

Men's restrooms are so much chiller than women's.

Quote from: Felix on May 04, 2013, 06:30:38 AM
I was about to say there's no reason to worry ever, but I've actually had trouble in gay bars. You want to watch out there. The lgbt community can be more exacting and unpredictable than the general public. I'm not going to try to dissect the whys and wherefores. If nothing else, you're more clockable in gay situations and that can set the stage for difficulties.

Caleb's been clocked a couple of times now and they've been gay or lesbian. It really upset him, understandably. You'd think they would not try and be a little supportive.

Quote from: Keaira on May 04, 2013, 10:00:05 AM
Caleb's been clocked a couple of times now and they've been gay or lesbian. It really upset him, understandably. You'd think they would not try and be a little supportive.

Yes, they have been, and openly so. I can't be sure about the woman who did it the other day, but if she is not a lesbian, she worked in a very liberal environment. Honestly, I am starting to feel like trans visibility is a double edged sword. On one hand, it helps people like me who had no idea we could transition. On the other, it helps people "spot" us and frankly, they have no idea of how to tactfully approach the matter at all.

I went in for the first time yesterday... there was a line, so I almost left, but no one even looked at me.  I doubt I pass, but if I do, people probably think I'm 14.  I went and peed in a stall once I was at the front of the line.  I washed my hands right next to a cop, too (sinks were pretty full) and he didn't say anything either.  That boosted my confidence a little, I guess.

It was in a Wal Mart in the "bad part of town"

Quote from: Felix on May 04, 2013, 06:30:38 AM
Still. I started using men's rooms long before I was consistently passing. The only time I ever even had the slightest trouble was when I'd take too long in the stall (for example using tampons, or adjusting necessary accoutrements), and I think people suspected I was homeless and changing or doing drugs or whatever. Even then the most I got in the way of trouble was dirty looks or mumbled epithets.

Men's restrooms are so much chiller than women's.

I have to agree there. I also started using the men's room before I could even pass. I had long hair and hadn't even started binding yet. Though I was very selective about where I went. Kept to the don't look around rule so I never saw if any faces were made, but I never heard a mumble. I definitely pass most of the time as a preteen these day, but I've been using the men's room for about 8 years and have been binding and therefore passing for 6.5 years. And since I've only had a couple issues. One was while I was at the gay bar. There was a line and while waiting a guy asked "what's in your pocket". Now I don't understand social things so it kind of freaked me out, but at this bar guys will hit on me once I walk through the door. Weather he was trying to harass me or get in my pants I'll never know because I just ignored him. I was interested to find out either way. Most of my worries come to me at work. I've been working at the same place for 7 years and the turnover is extremely low. About six months into my starting there I got the go ahead to use ONE restroom on a basement level. Shortly after that I had to talk to a woman in HR because she'd received complaints and had to explain that the men on that specific floor said it was okay. Then I moved a couple floors up and wanted to use that restroom and was told I couldn't and that that floor has a handicap restroom I can use "and would be more comfortable for everyone" (by my boss not the HR lady). I was and still am insulted at that quotation. The handicap restroom has a button to open the door with NO LOCKING option the only thing that really closes you off from anyone entering that restroom is a thin curtain (Even when I wasn't passing in the Wal-Mart restroom I felt a hell of a lot more comfortable than I ever could feel while passing in that one). I've bit the bullet a few times and have used the forbidden one during curtain times, no one has complained since.

The first time I used the men's room was at a Fred Meyer's (If you don't have them where you live, it's basically like a classier Walmart). I already passed fairly well (despite not having an STP at the time), but it seriously wasn't that big of a deal. I just went in, walked past this Mexican guy, went in a stall, and did my business. There were like three other guys in there at the time and not a single one even so much as looked at me. The great thing about being FTM vs MTF is that men's restrooms are a lot less social than women's restrooms. Men don't really try to spark conversations or judge other men's appearance. Unless you are in a gay bar, most men are just in there to do the deed and get out. The scariest experience I ever had in a men's restroom was at walmart. I went in and there was this guy in a stall making the most disturbing, loud noises I have ever heard. It sounded like he was engaging in sexual intercourse with a walrus while simultaneously conducting an exorcism and giving birth...  Other than that, you are probably not going to run into any trouble using the men's room.

Hmmm yes.... good point there. Women can be quite competitive in regards to appearance. One less social pressure for you guys hm? ^_^