Quote from: Michelle S. on June 25, 2013, 05:24:14 PM
No, I totally think you're right. They're not the hang out place for most of us. What bothers me though is that you can post and sit there for hours... nothing... Then someone from the "in crowd" posts and all of a sudden the thread explodes. This one person will get a page's worth of comments. But, will anyone bother to give us one? Hardly ever. That's what really grinds my gears; one person literally gets pages of replies and us, we get nothing...

I've even posted and come back to see that instead of providing me feedback, they've rehashed some "in crowder's" photos from two pages back - typically someone who's already received pages of compliments - and it turns into another "oh wow she's so pretty" for 2 more pages...

It's clearly evident just browsing. I think these threads rely on a "Hey you're my buddy here's what I think" and a "well I like how femmie you look" system that excludes people like me.

I'm really sorry to rant but again the OP of this thread has done this to me and I really have a hard to not pointing that out since we're all of a "point out flaws" mentality in this thread.

Thank you. I have literally sat here crying, just destroyed because of these people. I remember the first time I posted in Could I Pass One Day. I was at a really low point in my transition, the point where I wasn't seeing the effects of HRT and I thought I would never pass. I was in such a depressive state in those days. So, I thought, hey these girls can tell be objective observers, I'm sure they can help me! I took all the photos asked by the thread description, posted and waited. Like a kid waiting for Santa, I sat here face deep in the screen. I refreshed non-stop for like 2 hours. You know what advice and help I got? Nothing. Instead I got to watch these people go goo goo over everyone else in a vibrant dress and the layers of make up. Never once did anyone ever reply to me and for that, that moment where I felt even "these people" - the trans community - thought I was too ugly to pass or worthy of help, I will not forgive those people. It hurt a lot. So think about that people next time you decide to ignore us on the little "am I pretty" threads...

Sorry for the rant, but it certainly a sore subject for me..

Sorry, hon, didn't mean to touch a sore spot. I want everyone to enjoy their time here and feel respected. I don't usually visit the pass threads except on business. I posted my pic in JamieP's fashion thread because it didn't ask anyone to rate anything. Everyone in that thread is getting along.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2013, 05:34:40 PM

And by the way, I think passing while dressing androgynous is a lot more amazing than passing in frilly clothes. :p

So true. I'm certainly a femme, tomboy transgirl if such a thing existed

Quote from: Jamie D on June 25, 2013, 05:33:02 PM
You properly point out that in any social structure, cliques can develop.  Sometimes they are a form of mutual support.

I personally see the "Fabulous" topic as pure vanity, the "Before & After" topic as inspirational, and the other passing topics as informative.

With thousands of posts being made each day, I find it difficult to constantly visit the topics.  Basically, as a moderator, I am on the lookout for trouble.  That often happens on the rant boards, introductions, and in the HRT fourm.

So, I apologize if I missed your posts in any of those topics.  I try to make sure no one ever fails to get feedback.  Often, mine is by PM.

You're right, it is a natural phenomenon. It's not anyone specifically like you, Devlyn or even Shantel - I shouldn't have name her specifically - so no need to apologize. No body does. It's just how I've felt in those threads.

I spend quite a bit of time browsing the "Vanity" threads, but I'm almost never in the mood to comment.  I'm not the most social person on the planet, and, even just a few weeks back, I had to work myself up for hours to overcome my social anxiety long enough for one post.  I only post when I'm REALLY in the mood for it, or it seems like someone genuinely needs help or advice.

Even when I'm in one of my more social moods, I never post more than a few times per page.  When browsing other forums, I've always gotten annoyed when "picture" threads are dominated by the same few people saying "you look so great!!!" to everyone who posts - I don't want to be that guy...err...girl.  I will say this - "You Look Fabulous" is purely about vanity - those who post in it should have the confidence in themselves to not rely on the words of others.  We'd be better off with more photos in YLF, and more honest criticism in Do I Pass and Could I Pass One Day.

/$0.02

One interesting thing is that men tend to post their own pics far more than women do in Facebook and other similar sites (e.g., pics of belly muscles). In real world, women tend to be exhibitionist;  whereas men voyeur. In a cyber world, it is the opposite. I do not know the reasons, but I have observed those tendencies.

Barbie~~

Interesting... I have the exact opposite experience with fb, Barbie.  Guys seem to never change their avatar.   Maybe it's a cultural thing?  Idk

Anyway, I am tempted to make a new thread to talk about cliques.  I have some thoughts about them, particularly the ones people have been feeling here at susans.  I don't really want to derail things here tho.

Anyway, I am scared to death of posting in the threads in question now, words or otherwise lol.  Also, idk.. I don't really think those threads are for me anyway.  I didn't realize that until this topic was posted.

I do wish there was a place where we could kind of put faces to names without all the judgement and hurt feelings.  Knowing somebody's face humanizes them, I really believe that, and the more human we seem to each other, the less bits and bytes, the more empathetic the environment becomes, imo.

I do get why people's feelings have been hurt and I do understand how and why some of us end up with such fragile psyches, from personal experience.  I will try to never lose sight of that.  If you feel insecure and vulnerable and on the verge of shattering always, please know I've been there.  I always felt that I would go through the rest of my life fractured and on the verge of falling to bits—a shattered teacup that had been glued back together.  I was so amazed to see, as I changed course with my life, that hideous fissured web that I could barely even hold together start mending itself and HEALING... less like porcelain, more like bone.  I just want to give y'all that bit of hope.  In time, if you go the right way with your life, you will become more emotionally resilient than you ever thought possible.

That said, we will always carry our scars.  They should serve to remind us of where we came from, so that (among other things) we always treat those that are still fragile and broken, and not yet out of the woods, with gentleness, kindness, and grace.  I really am sorry if ever lost sight of anybody's feelings, and it doesn't even matter if it was completely unintentional.  I should know better and I should never, ever forget how it felt to be there, and I MUST make sure that with what I say (and neglect to say) I am always bearing in mind people's vulnerability.

Quote from: Jen on June 25, 2013, 07:59:07 PM

Anyway, I am tempted to make a new thread to talk about cliques.  I have some thoughts about them, particularly the ones people have been feeling here at susans.  I don't really want to derail things here tho.

You could if you like. I've definitely sensed their presence, but that hasn't stopped me from interacting in positive ways with the people in them. But then, I'm not shy at all and have no problems talking to new people. But yeah I can see why others would feel intimidated by these already established cliques that may seem really inaccessible to them.

Perhaps this is the wine talking, but so much conversation over a thread meant to share images.  Who cares so much about the qualifications?  Fabulous is different to different people.  Why should we really care about people flaunting what they got if they don't pass or not.  I really don't get why people get up in arms about this either way.  what integrity really exists within a thread for sheet vanity anyway. Besides we have so many people attack us in general society why do we need to create an hierarchy of attractiveness here on the site.  It seems counter productive to being a support site to have people look at another and say you aren't fabulous.  Shouldn't this be the place they can come and feel fabulous regardless of the overall image?  I just feel this is so high school for us to go "oh she shouldn't be posting here".  We are all better than this.  Give honest feedback on the passing threads (while remaining kind) but let's not cast people aside as not fabulous because they aren't the ideal beauty.  There are different reasons to feel fabulous. 

Quote from: Jen on June 25, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
Interesting... I have the exact opposite experience with fb, Barbie.  Guys seem to never change their avatar.   Maybe it's a cultural thing?  Idk

Anyway, I am tempted to make a new thread to talk about cliques.  I have some thoughts about them, particularly the ones people have been feeling here at susans.  I don't really want to derail things here tho.

Anyway, I am scared to death of posting in the threads in question now, words or otherwise lol.  Also, idk.. I don't really think those threads are for me anyway.  I didn't realize that until this topic was posted.

I do wish there was a place where we could kind of put faces to names without all the judgement and hurt feelings.  Knowing somebody's face humanizes them, I really believe that, and the more human we seem to each other, the less bits and bytes, the more empathetic the environment becomes, imo.

I do get why people's feelings have been hurt and I do understand how and why some of us end up with such fragile psyches, from personal experience.  I will try to never lose sight of that.  If you feel insecure and vulnerable and on the verge of shattering always, please know I've been there.  I always felt that I would go through the rest of my life fractured and on the verge of falling to bits—a shattered teacup that had been glued back together.  I was so amazed to see, as I changed course with my life, that hideous fissured web that I could barely even hold together start mending itself and HEALING... less like porcelain, more like bone.  I just want to give y'all that bit of hope.  In time, if you go the right way with your life, you will become more emotionally resilient than you ever thought possible.

That said, we will always carry our scars.  They should serve to remind us of where we came from, so that (among other things) we always treat those that are still fragile and broken, and not yet out of the woods, with gentleness, kindness, and grace.  I really am sorry if ever lost sight of anybody's feelings, and it doesn't even matter if it was completely unintentional.  I should know better and I should never, ever forget how it felt to be there, and I MUST make sure that with what I say (and neglect to say) I am always bearing in mind people's vulnerability.

Thank you for posting this Jen.  I know well about the physical and emotional scars that we accrue just by continuing to live.  I mentioned them before.

Don't be scared, though, to offer an opinion, a bit of advice, or just a few comforting words.  You are good at that.  It comes from being kind-hearted and understanding.

From a complete newbie - pre-everything.  I get a lot of inspiration from all of those threads.

I think with almost every post I see "wow, she looks incredible".  The funny thing is that is even true in the "will I pass one day" threads.

There are of course exceptions, but they are maybe 1/10.

While posting a moment ago, I got a flashback of a popular song from my youth.  Wonderfully catty.



None of this on the boards though!

I think the vanity threads are one of the site's more important feature's to lurkers and those considering transition. I know when I first really started to consider it and then kept saying "it'll never work, ever" those threads and seeing what happens after a year or so of HRT gave me the confidence I needed to say this actually could work. And now it's working! And it's been about 14 months since I found this site and now I am well into transtion and living the life I have always dreamed of and I no longer feel so dead and broken inside.

Also, I think now that this thread has been aired and we all see some of the thread's failings we as a community will fix it and make it better. All things being equal, I think this is one of the most sensitive, empathetic community on the Web that I've seen and that happens for one reason: the people who post here. I'm going to give us all a pat on the back lol